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RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2024 8:49:17 AM

Richard Neussendorfer

Posts: 19905
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I heard there is nothing in Sam's contract that can keep him from being franchised, but maybe there is some rules on it that might say otherwise?

More and more the franchise tag looks like a good solution.

I still think it comes down to the playoffs... if the Sam melts down (and we've seen no signs of that in a while), they stick to the plan move on.

If Sam balls out... then Kwesi's campagne problems throw the original plan out the window.

It should come down to how Sam plays in the playoffs. 15-2 or 14-3 and an exit prior to the NFCCG and it’s going to be hard hanging onto Sam, hoping for another great season and then not falling short again. I’d rather roll with JJM.

Give me some magic in the playoffs. Play in the NFCCG and I’m in for more Sam. Go to the SB and I’m all in. Win the SB…forget about it.

I agree with this. I feel like this is probably a one and done team which I'm still stoked they've done this well this year. This is all bonus for me going forward. They've far exceeded expectations. If we can get to the NFCCG with Sam it may make decisions harder.

Post #: 3501

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2024 9:16:22 AM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 27676
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Sam Darnold NFC Ranks:

Pass Yards: 3299 (3rd)
Pass TDs: 28 (1st)
20+ / 40+ YD pass plays: 1st
Passer Rating: 108 (2nd)
YDS / A: 8.6 (1st)

I am eating a big bowl of crow. I for one can admit I didn’t expect this from Sam

Nobody did.

I had high hopes that he'd be serviceable. With good targets and a pretty good Offensive minded coach...

He's exceeded my expectations.

It wasn't only how good Sam has been that I am eating crow on. Atlanta with a better run game and WR corps that isn't chop liver..... Daniel Jones may be better than Kirk right now. He looks not fully back from the Achilles injury.

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 3502

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2024 9:18:52 AM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 27676
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I heard there is nothing in Sam's contract that can keep him from being franchised, but maybe there is some rules on it that might say otherwise?

More and more the franchise tag looks like a good solution.

Transition tag is 31 million

Franchise is 38 million.

Those are 2024 values....add 4-5 Million.

https://overthecap.com/franchise-transition-and-rfa-tenders#google_vignette

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 3503

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2024 9:19:34 AM

Richard Neussendorfer

Posts: 19905
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Sam Darnold NFC Ranks:

Pass Yards: 3299 (3rd)
Pass TDs: 28 (1st)
20+ / 40+ YD pass plays: 1st
Passer Rating: 108 (2nd)
YDS / A: 8.6 (1st)

I am eating a big bowl of crow. I for one can admit I didn’t expect this from Sam

Nobody did.

I had high hopes that he'd be serviceable. With good targets and a pretty good Offensive minded coach...

He's exceeded my expectations.

It wasn't only how good Sam has been that I am eating crow on. Atlanta with a better run game and WR corps that isn't chop liver..... Daniel Jones may be better than Kirk right now. He looks not fully back from the Achilles injury.

They should be starting Penix

Post #: 3504

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2024 9:28:30 AM

Todd M

Posts: 40952
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: online

Nearing the end of his career everything Cousins is is being exemplified. A fraud making way too much money for the production.

Thrilled we decided to be done with it.

_____________________________

The ego holds on to pain from the past to prevent pain in the future, which causes pain in the present.

Keith Crossley

Post #: 3505

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2024 9:52:09 AM

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9624
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Quality win? It was aided by catching Atl in a downward spiral, KCs in freak out mode, etc. Scored 42, doubling on their 21, yet 21 is about an average score.

Maybe a win with a high quality 4th quarter.

One thing I will say is that as the game goes on the offense gets better it seems.

That bodes well.

I'd like better starts like we had earlier in the year.

Our Defense has been giving up lots of yards but tends to keep opposing teams out of the endzone more often than not.

My concern is the slow starting and letting teams matriculate down the field like they do will end up costing us in an important game yet down this last stretch or against the Eagles or Lions in the playoffs. We must play more complete game to beat these really good teams.

we had a stretch of a relatively high number of interceptions and fumbles in the red zone - points left on the field...this offense was gearing up for a game like yesterday's once we cleaned the turnovers up - hence, yesterday's victory....

can we keep it going?...it sure would be nice to go into the playoffs while operating at a high level....

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.

Post #: 3506

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2024 10:07:30 AM

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9624
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I heard there is nothing in Sam's contract that can keep him from being franchised, but maybe there is some rules on it that might say otherwise?

More and more the franchise tag looks like a good solution.

Transition tag is 31 million

Franchise is 38 million.

Those are 2024 values....add 4-5 Million.

https://overthecap.com/franchise-transition-and-rfa-tenders#google_vignette

i'm still on the mccarthy train...economical qb, so we can build out the rest of the team....

use the tags as a threat, and allow darnold to negotiate a deal with the team of his choice, who in turn pays us picks....

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.

Post #: 3507

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2024 10:07:40 AM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 5876
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Nearing the end of his career everything Cousins is is being exemplified. A fraud making way too much money for the production.

Thrilled we decided to be done with it.

If there was anything but dollar signs tattooed on each side of Kirk’s sanctimonious buttocks, he would be our QB now and maybe even next year for McCarthy’s actual rookie season.

Post #: 3508

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2024 10:12:28 AM

Steve Lentz

Posts: 36210
Joined: 7/19/2007
From: Omaha
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Sam Darnold NFC Ranks:

Pass Yards: 3299 (3rd)
Pass TDs: 28 (1st)
20+ / 40+ YD pass plays: 1st
Passer Rating: 108 (2nd)
YDS / A: 8.6 (1st)

I am eating a big bowl of crow. I for one can admit I didn’t expect this from Sam

Sam has had a very good year. Who expected this? I give him all the credit in the world.
The Vikes have exceeded my expectations already.

_____________________________

" I believe empathy is the most essential quality of civilization"

Post #: 3509

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2024 10:47:44 AM

Richard Neussendorfer

Posts: 19905
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Sam Darnold NFC Ranks:

Pass Yards: 3299 (3rd)
Pass TDs: 28 (1st)
20+ / 40+ YD pass plays: 1st
Passer Rating: 108 (2nd)
YDS / A: 8.6 (1st)

I am eating a big bowl of crow. I for one can admit I didn’t expect this from Sam

Sam has had a very good year. Who expected this? I give him all the credit in the world.
The Vikes have exceeded my expectations already.

Agreed Steve! Good to hear from you.

Post #: 3510

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2024 10:58:32 AM

Jeff Jesser

Posts: 19527
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: offline

You have to give credit to not only Darnold for yesterday but also KOC for his body of work so far. He was won with Dobbs/Mullens and a cast aside "bust" that nobody thought would amount to much. Say what you will about some of his playcalling, he gets the max out of the QB position.

That's why I wouldn't resign Darnold. As much as he's done this year, we need to use that money to shore up the rest of the team. We still have holes and having a cheap QB for 4 more years will really help there. Use that savings on a stud CB and RG.

Post #: 3511

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2024 11:03:23 AM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12223
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

You have to give credit to not only Darnold for yesterday but also KOC for his body of work so far. He was won with Dobbs/Mullens and a cast aside "bust" that nobody thought would amount to much. Say what you will about some of his playcalling, he gets the max out of the QB position.

That's why I wouldn't resign Darnold. As much as he's done this year, we need to use that money to shore up the rest of the team. We still have holes and having a cheap QB for 4 more years will really help there. Use that savings on a stud CB and RG.

They really have to be sure about JJM then. You would be giving up on a 27 year old Darnold in his prime.

Post #: 3512

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2024 11:14:04 AM

Trekgeekscott

Posts: 39362
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: United Federation of Planets
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

You have to give credit to not only Darnold for yesterday but also KOC for his body of work so far. He was won with Dobbs/Mullens and a cast aside "bust" that nobody thought would amount to much. Say what you will about some of his playcalling, he gets the max out of the QB position.

That's why I wouldn't resign Darnold. As much as he's done this year, we need to use that money to shore up the rest of the team. We still have holes and having a cheap QB for 4 more years will really help there. Use that savings on a stud CB and RG.

They really have to be sure about JJM then. You would be giving up on a 27 year old Darnold in his prime.

It's not just an age, skill, etc issue. It's highly financial.

One reason they signed Daniel Jones is because they believe they can reform him and use him as a good backup for JJ McCarthy next year.

_____________________________

“There is no hate like Christian love.”

Post #: 3513

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2024 11:15:25 AM

Jeff Jesser

Posts: 19527
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

You have to give credit to not only Darnold for yesterday but also KOC for his body of work so far. He was won with Dobbs/Mullens and a cast aside "bust" that nobody thought would amount to much. Say what you will about some of his playcalling, he gets the max out of the QB position.

That's why I wouldn't resign Darnold. As much as he's done this year, we need to use that money to shore up the rest of the team. We still have holes and having a cheap QB for 4 more years will really help there. Use that savings on a stud CB and RG.

They really have to be sure about JJM then. You would be giving up on a 27 year old Darnold in his prime.

Agree on JJM. Would you stick with Darnold at 40+ million or reinvest that back in to the team and roll with JJM? If they could resign Darnold for around 20 a year for 3, I'd be totally onboard but I don't see any way his team agrees to that. This is, most likely, his last chance at the bag.

Post #: 3514

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2024 11:22:15 AM

Trekgeekscott

Posts: 39362
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: United Federation of Planets
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

You have to give credit to not only Darnold for yesterday but also KOC for his body of work so far. He was won with Dobbs/Mullens and a cast aside "bust" that nobody thought would amount to much. Say what you will about some of his playcalling, he gets the max out of the QB position.

That's why I wouldn't resign Darnold. As much as he's done this year, we need to use that money to shore up the rest of the team. We still have holes and having a cheap QB for 4 more years will really help there. Use that savings on a stud CB and RG.

They really have to be sure about JJM then. You would be giving up on a 27 year old Darnold in his prime.

Agree on JJM. Would you stick with Darnold at 40+ million or reinvest that back in to the team and roll with JJM? If they could resign Darnold for around 20 a year for 3, I'd be totally onboard but I don't see any way his team agrees to that. This is, most likely, his last chance at the bag.

There has been zero discussions with Darnold and his agent about an extension.

_____________________________

“There is no hate like Christian love.”

Post #: 3515

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2024 11:34:10 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28968
Status: offline

For me it's not about the playoff results as much as whether Darnold was central to the wins or losses, how he did in key moments, etc.

Throw a 3 yard dump off on 4th and 8 with the game on the line and he can hit the road.

Go for it with a walk off toss for a TD and let the conversations begin.

Post #: 3516

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2024 11:47:54 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28968
Status: offline

For 2025 we have a lot of cap but also a lot of open roster spots that will chew into that cap.

Then there is currently another $15 million in void year money.

Plus $5M in dead cap, mostly from Cine and Booth.

UFAs/RFAs:

Cam Robinson
Darnold
Murphy, Gilmore, Griffin, Bynum, Theo Jackson (RFA), Moreau
Aaron Jones
Tillery
Risner
Bullard
Mundt
Mullens
Powell
Quessenberry
Feeney
Sherfield
Ward
Grugier-Hill
Patrick Jones
Akers
Rypien
Wright (RFA)

Post #: 3517

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2024 12:01:24 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28968
Status: offline

$77M in cap space.

Minus:
$15M void
$6M dead
$6M in season reserve

Plus:
Any 2024 rollover cap, say $10M
League wide cap increase but that's a wash since all teams get it and it will be absorbed by higher $ contracts

There is no telling how much Kwesi will backload, void, etc but in general terms we have about $60M in cap with 24 FAs (or open spots).

If every open spot, including the draftees, counted just $2M against the cap, there would be $12M left. The cap is exhausted if the overall average is $2.5M.

Just spitballing as a lot of things can transpire, but I don't think the team will be financially capable of franchising Darnold. I think the moment Jefferson signed his extension, the starting QB salary defaulted to cheap.

Post #: 3518

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2024 12:02:17 PM

Richard Neussendorfer

Posts: 19905
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

For me it's not about the playoff results as much as whether Darnold was central to the wins or losses, how he did in key moments, etc.

Throw a 3 yard dump off on 4th and 8 with the game on the line and he can hit the road.

Go for it with a walk off toss for a TD and let the conversations begin.

Good points. It'll be revealed soon enough. Lots of tough matchups coming up and playoffs to see how he performs.

Post #: 3519

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2024 12:06:45 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28968
Status: offline

The franchise tag values will come out in Feb, one source has QB at $41.3M.

Sam, lead the team to the SB or win it and you can have the whole damn franchise!

Post #: 3520

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2024 12:10:49 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28968
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

For me it's not about the playoff results as much as whether Darnold was central to the wins or losses, how he did in key moments, etc.

Throw a 3 yard dump off on 4th and 8 with the game on the line and he can hit the road.

Go for it with a walk off toss for a TD and let the conversations begin.

Good points. It'll be revealed soon enough. Lots of tough matchups coming up and playoffs to see how he performs.

Yeah, Darnold has shown us the old Darnold. And while KOC talks a good line about adjustments starting a month ago, I'm not convinced the old Darnold is gone. More like, when will he reappear? But who knows... he has exceeded expectations and defied the odds so far.

Post #: 3521

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2024 12:56:09 PM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12223
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

For 2025 we have a lot of cap but also a lot of open roster spots that will chew into that cap.

Then there is currently another $15 million in void year money.

Plus $5M in dead cap, mostly from Cine and Booth.

UFAs/RFAs:

Cam Robinson
Darnold
Murphy, Gilmore, Griffin, Bynum, Theo Jackson (RFA), Moreau
Aaron Jones
Tillery
Risner
Bullard
Mundt
Mullens
Powell
Quessenberry
Feeney
Sherfield
Ward
Grugier-Hill
Patrick Jones
Akers
Rypien
Wright (RFA)

Yeah, alot of holes to shore up.

A deep run in this years playoffs where Sam plays well, maybe franchise tag(which might piss him off).

They can still backload plus void years to fill the holes.

So, 2025 is SB or bust for Darnold. Wins SB and gets huge extension. Don't and we go with JJM.

Win SB in 2024 and it is no brainer to sign him to multi year deal.

Post #: 3522

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2024 1:07:20 PM

Todd M

Posts: 40952
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: online

Convos can flow as they may but for me I don’t want to think at all about the 2025 season for the next 6 to 8 weeks.

We don’t get a team this good very often. We’re for real. I just want to bathe in this.

_____________________________

The ego holds on to pain from the past to prevent pain in the future, which causes pain in the present.

Keith Crossley

Post #: 3523

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2024 1:25:45 PM

Todd M

Posts: 40952
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: online

I believed more and longer in 2009 and 1998.

This could be it. The year I hear the words - And the Vikings are going to the Super Bowl!

It’ll be my 1st time. We’ve talked about this before and a lot of you fear 0-5 but I crave the moment of knowing and the anticipation. And all the talk…

_____________________________

The ego holds on to pain from the past to prevent pain in the future, which causes pain in the present.

Keith Crossley

Post #: 3524

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2024 1:48:44 PM

Richard Neussendorfer

Posts: 19905
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

I believed more and longer in 2009 and 1998.

This could be it. The year I hear the words - And the Vikings are going to the Super Bowl!

It’ll be my 1st time. We’ve talked about this before and a lot of you fear 0-5 but I crave the moment of knowing and the anticipation. And all the talk…

I used to care about being 0-5. Now I don't fear it. You can't win it without that possibility being on the table. I'm like you I think Todd. I'm 47 and all I've seen is NFC title games. Of which I thought we stood a chance in probably 2 of them. I just wanna see advancement past what I have seen before and let the chips fall where they may. I personally don't think it will be this year. However if we win 3 of these last 4 with one being Detroit the expectations will undoubtedly go way up.

Post #: 3525