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RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2024 1:50:44 PM

Richard Neussendorfer

Posts: 19905
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline

I've been wrong a lot this season especially! So maybe it's good that I don't think this is the year. Thrilled with the season no matter what though.

Post #: 3526

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2024 2:13:47 PM

Todd M

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Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

I bet a seasoned fan laughs and says - “sure, you’ll find a silver lining in losing the SB. At least we got there…you’ll be crushed.”

This will hopefully just get getting ramped up. Step 1. See us tied with Detroit after week.

_____________________________

The ego holds on to pain from the past to prevent pain in the future, which causes pain in the present.

Keith Crossley

Post #: 3527

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2024 2:16:30 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28968
Status: offline

Winning the SB seems to take some combination of a bit of luck, peaking at the right time, and a game-changing facet to where you can line up and say here it is, let's see you do something about it (clutch/ace QB, dominant OL/DL, shut down D, etc).

Plus sometimes there is a difference in attitude, i.e. 'just happy to be here' vs 'we are going to slaughter the opposition', although that might be imagined.

And kinda sucking for a half or 3/4th of a game... forget about it.

Post #: 3528

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2024 2:56:14 PM

Trekgeekscott

Posts: 39362
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: United Federation of Planets
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

And kinda sucking for a half or 3/4th of a game... forget about it.

iirc The Chiefs won a couple of SBs this way.

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“There is no hate like Christian love.”

Post #: 3529

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2024 3:07:06 PM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 27676
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

For 2025 we have a lot of cap but also a lot of open roster spots that will chew into that cap.

Then there is currently another $15 million in void year money.

Plus $5M in dead cap, mostly from Cine and Booth.

UFAs/RFAs:

Cam Robinson
Darnold
Murphy, Gilmore, Griffin, Bynum, Theo Jackson (RFA), Moreau
Aaron Jones
Tillery
Risner
Bullard
Mundt
Mullens
Powell
Quessenberry
Feeney
Sherfield
Ward
Grugier-Hill
Patrick Jones
Akers
Rypien
Wright (RFA)

Yeah, alot of holes to shore up.
A deep run in this years playoffs where Sam plays well, maybe franchise tag(which might piss him off).
They can still backload plus void years to fill the holes.
So, 2025 is SB or bust for Darnold. Wins SB and gets huge extension. Don't and we go with JJM.
Win SB in 2024 and it is no brainer to sign him to multi year deal.

Some are already filled (Cam with Darrisaw), cheap (Mundt, Powell, Feeney, Ward, Sherfeld, Grugier-Hill, Akers), or have ready replacements (Jones, Grugier-Hill with Turner and Jamin Davis)

_____________________________

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KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 3530

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2024 6:47:16 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28968
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

And kinda sucking for a half or 3/4th of a game... forget about it.

iirc The Chiefs won a couple of SBs this way.

Like the Pats with Brady, just about any abnormality or flaw doesn't count with the Chiefs because they have a QB named Patrick Mahomes.

Post #: 3531

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2024 7:20:31 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28968
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

For 2025 we have a lot of cap but also a lot of open roster spots that will chew into that cap.

Then there is currently another $15 million in void year money.

Plus $5M in dead cap, mostly from Cine and Booth.

UFAs/RFAs:

Cam Robinson
Darnold
Murphy, Gilmore, Griffin, Bynum, Theo Jackson (RFA), Moreau
Aaron Jones
Tillery
Risner
Bullard
Mundt
Mullens
Powell
Quessenberry
Feeney
Sherfield
Ward
Grugier-Hill
Patrick Jones
Akers
Rypien
Wright (RFA)

Yeah, alot of holes to shore up.
A deep run in this years playoffs where Sam plays well, maybe franchise tag(which might piss him off).
They can still backload plus void years to fill the holes.
So, 2025 is SB or bust for Darnold. Wins SB and gets huge extension. Don't and we go with JJM.
Win SB in 2024 and it is no brainer to sign him to multi year deal.

Some are already filled (Cam with Darrisaw), cheap (Mundt, Powell, Feeney, Ward, Sherfeld, Grugier-Hill, Akers), or have ready replacements (Jones, Grugier-Hill with Turner and Jamin Davis)

You're missing part of the point because players like Turner are already projected to man their own spot for 2025. They won't be filling two positions in 2025. Interesting that Akers, Sherfield, Mundt, and Jamin Davis were not on the list I posted but later noticed they do not have contracts for 2025. So that's at least 4 more UFAs. And there will of course be the designated cheapies with some draft fluff thrown in.

The exception to open spots would, yes, be players like Cam who are temporary fill-ins to cover for players out for the year. IOW Cam leaves for Darrisaw who has a contract for 2025 so it's a wash as far as open spots. And Blackmon has a contract for 2025 so that's one less CB to sign. Injured payers like Pace for example are counted for 2025.

Whether we resign some of those FAs or go in a different direction, by the looks of it there will still be around 25 NEW contracts that have to be written with cap used against them.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 12/9/2024 7:28:40 PM >

Post #: 3532

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2024 7:40:19 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28968
Status: offline

Because a lot can happen, and who knows how many new credit cards Kwesi has accumulated, I'll simply provide the current givens:

$77M in cap space.

2025 cap items:
- $15M void
- $6M dead
- $6M in-season reserve (as a normal course of events)
+ $10M 2024 roll-over cap

Equals $60M in cap.

Around 25 UFAs.

Post #: 3533

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2024 8:40:51 PM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 27676
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Because a lot can happen, and who knows how many new credit cards Kwesi has accumulated, I'll simply provide the current givens:

$77M in cap space.

2025 cap items:
- $15M void
- $6M dead
- $6M in-season reserve (as a normal course of events)
+ $10M 2024 roll-over cap

Equals $60M in cap.

Around 25 UFAs.

Same song and dance you did before Ginkel Cashman Jones Darnold Gillmore Ward Tillery signed last year.

Cap space isn’t what it looks like. Multiple years not just that cap year. With Signing Bonus and 3-5 year contracts it is more money than it looks like.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 12/10/2024 7:14:47 AM >

_____________________________

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KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 3534

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2024 9:53:59 PM

Jeff Jesser

Posts: 19527
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: offline

WTF is the new NFL missing blatant QB facesmasks as they try to get out of the pocket? Another one just happened on Burrow and it was, as bad, as the Darnold at Rams one. That's like 4 or 5 really obvious ones I've seen this year.

Post #: 3535

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/9/2024 9:57:45 PM

Richard Neussendorfer

Posts: 19905
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

WTF is the new NFL missing blatant QB facesmasks as they try to get out of the pocket? Another one just happened on Burrow and it was, as bad, as the Darnold at Rams one. That's like 4 or 5 really obvious ones I've seen this year.

Yeah it's been pretty bad. Makes you think safety really isn't that important.

Post #: 3536

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/10/2024 2:40:08 AM

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9624
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Because a lot can happen, and who knows how many new credit cards Kwesi has accumulated, I'll simply provide the current givens:

$77M in cap space.

2025 cap items:
- $15M void
- $6M dead
- $6M in-season reserve (as a normal course of events)
+ $10M 2024 roll-over cap

Equals $60M in cap.

Around 25 UFAs.

Same song and you did before Ginkel Cashman Jones Darnold Gillmore Ward Tillery signed last year.

Cap space isn’t what it looks like. Multiple years not just that cap year.

spotract has us at $78.5mm under, including dead cap and void years...below is a plausible scenario that keeps us under the cap and fortifies our team with free agents and draft picks....

below are the present starters that aren't signed in 2025, as well as their replacements and the cap hit for 2025...some are replaced via quality free agents, and others with draft picks - tillery remains, and is resigned...the monetary figures are for the first year of backloaded deals with void years - the normal accounting practices of NFL teams these days....

Darnold qb…mccarthy
Jones rb….draft 3rd round
Robinson lt…retain or free agent - $5mm
Risner rt…free agent - $10mm
Tillery…sign him - $3mm
Bullard…free agent…$15mm
Gilmore…free agent…$12mm
murphy jr…draft 2nd round
bynum…theo jackson…$3mm

Others to retain as free agents:
powell…2m
Jones rb…$3.5mm (rb #2)
griffin…3m
quessenberry…2m
feeney…1.8m
grugier-hill…1.5m
moreau…1.3m
akers…1.2m
muse…1m
mundt…2m
Redmond…$1mm
Jamin davis…$2mm
Gabriel murphy…$1mm

Vikings Draft 2025:
Trade our 1st rounder for a 2nd and two 3rd rounders
2nd round…cb
3rd round…guard/center
3rd round…rb (deep class)
3rd round…cb (comp)
5th round…bpa
5th round…bpa
7th round…bpa

these are the teams with multiple 2nd and/or 3rd round picks we could trade with....

sf…2, 3, 3
ne…2, 3, 3
lv…2, 3, 3
kc…2, 3, 3
jack…2, 3, 3
clev…2, 3, 3
chi…2, 2, 3
bf…2, 2, 3

< Message edited by ratoppenheimer -- 12/10/2024 2:44:10 AM >

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the journey...is paradise.

Post #: 3537

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/10/2024 10:02:32 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28968
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Because a lot can happen, and who knows how many new credit cards Kwesi has accumulated, I'll simply provide the current givens:

$77M in cap space.

2025 cap items:
- $15M void
- $6M dead
- $6M in-season reserve (as a normal course of events)
+ $10M 2024 roll-over cap

Equals $60M in cap.

Around 25 UFAs.

Same song and dance you did before Ginkel Cashman Jones Darnold Gillmore Ward Tillery signed last year.

Cap space isn’t what it looks like. Multiple years not just that cap year. With Signing Bonus and 3-5 year contracts it is more money than it looks like.

Let's continue the same song and dance which was based on franchising Darnold:

Using Rat's numbers we enter the league year with $79M.
Assume the Franchise Tag for QBs is $42 million.

$79 - $42 = $37 million for adding 25 players. Have fun with that!

We can backload the FAs but probably not much in 2026-27 as the big $ kick in: Jefferson 39/43, Hock 21/23, Darrisaw 23/25, O'Neill 23, Greenard 22/22.

And at some point it would be nice to make a splash signing or two for a top CB, OG, DL, etc. instead of penciling in "Gillmore Ward Tillery". You know, to add real talent.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 12/10/2024 10:17:05 AM >

Post #: 3538

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/10/2024 10:21:15 AM

Richard Neussendorfer

Posts: 19905
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline

A little off topic but no way in hell is Parsons a 40 mill plus a year player. Good luck to the franchise that takes on that Albatross! I'm assuming Dallas.

Post #: 3539

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/10/2024 10:24:58 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28968
Status: offline

Oh Phil, before you lecture on cap basics you might want to brush up on the rules about cap hits for franchised players.

Hint: Kwesi's credit cards will be denied. Think more along the lines of Straight Cash Homey!

Post #: 3540

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/10/2024 10:34:20 AM

Jeff Jesser

Posts: 19527
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

A little off topic but no way in hell is Parsons a 40 mill plus a year player. Good luck to the franchise that takes on that Albatross! I'm assuming Dallas.

I'm not sure they can afford him either at that price (they 'could' but it would be stupid as they would be pretty much broke after). The fact that they made Dak the highest priced guy was their big downfall. Couldn't happen to a better franchise

Post #: 3541

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/10/2024 10:41:49 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28968
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

A little off topic but no way in hell is Parsons a 40 mill plus a year player. Good luck to the franchise that takes on that Albatross! I'm assuming Dallas.

I'm not sure they can afford him either at that price (they 'could' but it would be stupid as they would be pretty much broke after). The fact that they made Dak the highest priced guy was their big downfall. Couldn't happen to a better franchise

Dak's cap hits are comical:

44 (current)
90
68
62
72
1 Void
0 Void
0 Void
0 Void

Post #: 3542

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/10/2024 10:44:04 AM

Jeff Jesser

Posts: 19527
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

A little off topic but no way in hell is Parsons a 40 mill plus a year player. Good luck to the franchise that takes on that Albatross! I'm assuming Dallas.

I'm not sure they can afford him either at that price (they 'could' but it would be stupid as they would be pretty much broke after). The fact that they made Dak the highest priced guy was their big downfall. Couldn't happen to a better franchise

Dak's cap hits are comical:

44 (current)
90
68
62
72
1 Void
0 Void
0 Void
0 Void

Wow, just w---o-----w

Post #: 3543

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/10/2024 11:01:31 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28968
Status: offline

Looked up Hurts contract... reasonable through 2028.

Then 2029 is a void year with $98 million parked in it. With six more placeholder void years after that.

At least they have a shot at things, unlike Dallas.

Post #: 3544

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/10/2024 11:24:50 AM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 27676
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Because a lot can happen, and who knows how many new credit cards Kwesi has accumulated, I'll simply provide the current givens:

$77M in cap space.

2025 cap items:
- $15M void
- $6M dead
- $6M in-season reserve (as a normal course of events)
+ $10M 2024 roll-over cap

Equals $60M in cap.

Around 25 UFAs.

Same song and dance you did before Ginkel Cashman Jones Darnold Gillmore Ward Tillery signed last year.

Cap space isn’t what it looks like. Multiple years not just that cap year. With Signing Bonus and 3-5 year contracts it is more money than it looks like.

Let's continue the same song and dance which was based on franchising Darnold:

Using Rat's numbers we enter the league year with $79M.
Assume the Franchise Tag for QBs is $42 million.

$79 - $42 = $37 million for adding 25 players. Have fun with that!

We can backload the FAs but probably not much in 2026-27 as the big $ kick in: Jefferson 39/43, Hock 21/23, Darrisaw 23/25, O'Neill 23, Greenard 22/22.

And at some point it would be nice to make a splash signing or two for a top CB, OG, DL, etc. instead of penciling in "Gillmore Ward Tillery". You know, to add real talent.

You mean the real talent of Van Ginkel, Cashman, Jones, and Greenard?

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 12/10/2024 11:33:45 AM >

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 3545

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/10/2024 11:25:05 AM

Todd M

Posts: 40952
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

Detroit is about to run out of steam and Philly isn’t together as a team.

I hope they both have brutal Decembers leaving us #1.

_____________________________

The ego holds on to pain from the past to prevent pain in the future, which causes pain in the present.

Keith Crossley

Post #: 3546

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/10/2024 11:39:46 AM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 27676
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Oh Phil, before you lecture on cap basics you might want to brush up on the rules about cap hits for franchised players.

Hint: Kwesi's credit cards will be denied. Think more along the lines of Straight Cash Homey!

I just look back on last year when you said no signings were possible and our cap available is about double although the Darrisaw and JJ contracts helped....

That is the reality....you don't look at one year but 2-3 years cap.

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 3547

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/10/2024 11:46:19 AM

marty

Posts: 13089
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

WTF is the new NFL missing blatant QB facesmasks as they try to get out of the pocket? Another one just happened on Burrow and it was, as bad, as the Darnold at Rams one....."

Maybe it was preferred that Dallas covered the spread, just like it may have been preferred that the Rams covered the spread against the Vikings ?

Except it was a failed attempt with the Cowboys. A blocked punt, and Chase's TD may have foiled that, some things happen too quickly.

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SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 3548

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/10/2024 2:44:48 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28968
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Because a lot can happen, and who knows how many new credit cards Kwesi has accumulated, I'll simply provide the current givens:

$77M in cap space.

2025 cap items:
- $15M void
- $6M dead
- $6M in-season reserve (as a normal course of events)
+ $10M 2024 roll-over cap

Equals $60M in cap.

Around 25 UFAs.

Same song and dance you did before Ginkel Cashman Jones Darnold Gillmore Ward Tillery signed last year.

Cap space isn’t what it looks like. Multiple years not just that cap year. With Signing Bonus and 3-5 year contracts it is more money than it looks like.

Let's continue the same song and dance which was based on franchising Darnold:

Using Rat's numbers we enter the league year with $79M.
Assume the Franchise Tag for QBs is $42 million.

$79 - $42 = $37 million for adding 25 players. Have fun with that!

We can backload the FAs but probably not much in 2026-27 as the big $ kick in: Jefferson 39/43, Hock 21/23, Darrisaw 23/25, O'Neill 23, Greenard 22/22.

And at some point it would be nice to make a splash signing or two for a top CB, OG, DL, etc. instead of penciling in "Gillmore Ward Tillery". You know, to add real talent.

You mean the real talent of Van Ginkel, Cashman, Jones, and Greenard?

And they are far from the minimum wage types. And those defenders are already on the 2025 roster.

But you rest on those laurels. I want to see a new secondary with talent, a new IOL, some real DL (although it remains to be seen what may shake out with some of the newbies).

Post #: 3549

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/10/2024 2:47:52 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28968
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Oh Phil, before you lecture on cap basics you might want to brush up on the rules about cap hits for franchised players.

Hint: Kwesi's credit cards will be denied. Think more along the lines of Straight Cash Homey!

I just look back on last year when you said no signings were possible and our cap available is about double although the Darrisaw and JJ contracts helped....

That is the reality....you don't look at one year but 2-3 years cap.

Yeah you brought up that strawman after free agency but in your eagerness to prove something you conveniently neglected to add the many times I said ~ depending on how Kwesi handles the contracts. Just like I've said at least three times in this series of posts:

- Just spitballing as a lot of things can transpire...

- There is no telling how much Kwesi will backload, void, etc...

- We can backload the FAs...

- Because a lot can happen, and who knows how many new credit cards Kwesi has accumulated, I'll simply provide the current givens.

That of course will not stop you from falsely reframing what I said.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 12/10/2024 2:59:50 PM >

Post #: 3550