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RE: General Vikes Talk

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/23/2024 10:52:28 AM   
Todd M

 

Posts: 40939
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline 		Sign Sam for 3 years/120 mil. If you can do that, find 2 new starting guards and still give BFlo something to work with on Defense and I’m in.

JJM can steal the job if it’s meant to be.

_____________________________

The ego holds on to pain from the past to prevent pain in the future, which causes pain in the present.

Keith Crossley
Post #: 3851
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/23/2024 10:54:26 AM   
Todd M

 

Posts: 40939
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline 		I’d rather shift the $ around than have to eat 40+ next year bc of the franchise tag.

_____________________________

The ego holds on to pain from the past to prevent pain in the future, which causes pain in the present.

Keith Crossley
Post #: 3852
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/23/2024 11:09:43 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28959
Status: offline 		Safe to say Brzez is likely going through erasers to figure out contract possibilities (not suggesting they will sign Darnold).

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 12/23/2024 11:31:39 AM >
Post #: 3853
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/23/2024 11:27:51 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28959
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Sign Sam for 3 years/120 mil. If you can do that, find 2 new starting guards and still give BFlo something to work with on Defense and I’m in.

JJM can steal the job if it’s meant to be.


Yes, Flores will need something to work with (to put it mildly) considering over half of the starting defense (DE, DE, S, CB, CB, CB) are UFAs.
Post #: 3854
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/23/2024 11:35:25 AM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 27672
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline 		FYI....Brandel isn't going to be replaced in the offseason.


PFF MIN Vikings
@PFF_Vikings
·
2m
The highest-graded Vikings in Week 16 vs the Seahawks:

🥇 Justin Jefferson - 81.5
🥈 Pat Jones II - 80.4
🥉 Sam Darnold - 78.4
🏅 Josh Metellus - 77.9
🏅 Blake Brandel - 76.2

(min. 25 snaps)

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq
Post #: 3855
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/23/2024 11:36:46 AM   
Todd M

 

Posts: 40939
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline 		Get me 1 C and 1 G then.

_____________________________

The ego holds on to pain from the past to prevent pain in the future, which causes pain in the present.

Keith Crossley
Post #: 3856
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/23/2024 11:39:17 AM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 27672
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Sign Sam for 3 years/120 mil. If you can do that, find 2 new starting guards and still give BFlo something to work with on Defense and I’m in.

JJM can steal the job if it’s meant to be.


Yes, Flores will need something to work with (to put it mildly) considering over half of the starting defense (DE, DE, S, CB, CB, CB) are UFAs.


So you are talking Jones, Bullard/Tillery, Cam, Griffin, Murphy, Gillmore....plus Aaron Jones, Risner, and probably Bradbury. Murphy and Aaron Jones give me the most worry out of the group.

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq
Post #: 3857
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/23/2024 11:40:48 AM   
Todd M

 

Posts: 40939
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline 		Jones is a good guy and great teammate probably but he’s not special.

_____________________________

The ego holds on to pain from the past to prevent pain in the future, which causes pain in the present.

Keith Crossley
Post #: 3858
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/23/2024 11:43:47 AM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 27672
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Jones is a good guy and great teammate probably but he’s not special.


Which Jones? Patrick Jones?

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq
Post #: 3859
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/23/2024 11:44:44 AM   
Todd M

 

Posts: 40939
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline 		The one you were worrying about.

_____________________________

The ego holds on to pain from the past to prevent pain in the future, which causes pain in the present.

Keith Crossley
Post #: 3860
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/23/2024 11:50:15 AM   
joejitsu

 

Posts: 15595
Joined: 3/21/2010
From: 60411
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Sign Sam for 3 years/120 mil. If you can do that, find 2 new starting guards and still give BFlo something to work with on Defense and I’m in.

JJM can steal the job if it’s meant to be.


We can franchise him for 35 mil, I think. That gives us a lot of flexibility.
Post #: 3861
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/23/2024 12:17:11 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28959
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joejitsu

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Sign Sam for 3 years/120 mil. If you can do that, find 2 new starting guards and still give BFlo something to work with on Defense and I’m in.

JJM can steal the job if it’s meant to be.


We can franchise him for 35 mil, I think. That gives us a lot of flexibility.


It was $38M in 2024 and projected to be about $41M in 2025, and cap wise it's all due in 2025. I don't see that as having any flexibility.
Post #: 3862
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/23/2024 12:19:43 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28959
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Sign Sam for 3 years/120 mil. If you can do that, find 2 new starting guards and still give BFlo something to work with on Defense and I’m in.

JJM can steal the job if it’s meant to be.


Yes, Flores will need something to work with (to put it mildly) considering over half of the starting defense (DE, DE, S, CB, CB, CB) are UFAs.


So you are talking Jones, Bullard/Tillery, Cam, Griffin, Murphy, Gillmore....plus Aaron Jones, Risner, and probably Bradbury. Murphy and Aaron Jones give me the most worry out of the group.


No I wasn't talking about Patrick Jones, just the starters on defense. Six of them. But naturally it's great to have good backups.
Post #: 3863
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/23/2024 12:20:55 PM   
joejitsu

 

Posts: 15595
Joined: 3/21/2010
From: 60411
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: joejitsu

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Sign Sam for 3 years/120 mil. If you can do that, find 2 new starting guards and still give BFlo something to work with on Defense and I’m in.

JJM can steal the job if it’s meant to be.


We can franchise him for 35 mil, I think. That gives us a lot of flexibility.


It was $38M in 2024 and projected to be about $41M in 2025, and cap wise it's all due in 2025. I don't see that as having any flexibility.


I didn't know it was all due next year. I will rethink my position...
Post #: 3864
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/23/2024 12:22:14 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 78055
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joejitsu

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Sign Sam for 3 years/120 mil. If you can do that, find 2 new starting guards and still give BFlo something to work with on Defense and I’m in.

JJM can steal the job if it’s meant to be.


We can franchise him for 35 mil, I think. That gives us a lot of flexibility.


35M is the Transition Tag. That one still lets him negotiate with other teams and gives us the option to match it. Meaning we most likely lose him for nothing if we use that.

The Franchise Tag projects to be around 41M. That one locks him to us.
Post #: 3865
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/23/2024 12:23:19 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28959
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Jones is a good guy and great teammate probably but he’s not special.


He may leave, but at least he'll be tied to the team in 2025 when the void year kicks in for half of his contract.
Post #: 3866
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/23/2024 12:27:54 PM   
joejitsu

 

Posts: 15595
Joined: 3/21/2010
From: 60411
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: joejitsu

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Sign Sam for 3 years/120 mil. If you can do that, find 2 new starting guards and still give BFlo something to work with on Defense and I’m in.

JJM can steal the job if it’s meant to be.


We can franchise him for 35 mil, I think. That gives us a lot of flexibility.


35M is the Transition Tag. That one still lets him negotiate with other teams and gives us the option to match it. Meaning we most likely lose him for nothing if we use that.

The Franchise Tag projects to be around 41M. That one locks him to us.


It's not as easy a decision as I was thinking.
Post #: 3867
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/23/2024 12:31:34 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28959
Status: offline 		Think of void years as spiritual connections. Although the players are not on the roster, they are paid anyway so there are fond memories and more to draw from. Perhaps a fan favorite like Chandler will channel some Aaron Jones toughness.
Post #: 3868
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/23/2024 12:36:11 PM   
joejitsu

 

Posts: 15595
Joined: 3/21/2010
From: 60411
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Think of void years as spiritual connections. Although the players are not on the roster, they are paid anyway so there are fond memories and more to draw from. Perhaps a fan favorite like Chandler will channel some Aaron Jones toughness.


I liked Chandler but he just doesn't run as hard as he did in college. And my confidence in Jones is still a bit shaky. Kind of like how I felt about our special teams for a few years.
Post #: 3869
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/23/2024 12:40:15 PM   
Todd M

 

Posts: 40939
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joejitsu

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: joejitsu

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Sign Sam for 3 years/120 mil. If you can do that, find 2 new starting guards and still give BFlo something to work with on Defense and I’m in.

JJM can steal the job if it’s meant to be.


We can franchise him for 35 mil, I think. That gives us a lot of flexibility.


35M is the Transition Tag. That one still lets him negotiate with other teams and gives us the option to match it. Meaning we most likely lose him for nothing if we use that.

The Franchise Tag projects to be around 41M. That one locks him to us.


It's not as easy a decision as I was thinking.


It’s tough. Eat it now, eat it over years including void years…possibly a big eat. Or let him go.

_____________________________

The ego holds on to pain from the past to prevent pain in the future, which causes pain in the present.

Keith Crossley
Post #: 3870
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/23/2024 1:09:19 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28959
Status: offline 		On average from 2026-2028, Jefferson ranks 13th league-wide in cap hit (like around $43M per). As one can easily imagine, the overwhelming majority of the players above him each year are QBs. So we sort of have our big $ player. Of course teams pay big bucks to more than one player, and we can afford a QB with a fairly high cap hit even with Darrisaw, Greenard, O'Neill, Hock, etc. It just depends on how many credit cards Kwesi gets for the holidays and whether it's worth skimping at any number of positions.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/player/_/year/2028/sort/cap_total

The 2024 Sam Darnold season hasn't concluded yet so we'll see.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 12/23/2024 1:10:43 PM >
Post #: 3871
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/23/2024 1:35:14 PM   
Chris Olson


Posts: 6804
Joined: 7/15/2007
From: Saratoga Springs, NY
Status: online 		It's a pipe dream to think we can sign Sam to a 3 yr/$120 mil

I can't imagine he will have to sign anything less than a 4 yr/$200

Maybe we can do a franchise tag, but that sucks for Sam and he (or rather, his agent) will do as much as he can to get out of it...

likely force a big trade, we get 2 firsts and keep our top ten pick QB and bolster the team with talent...and stay out of cap hell and someone else pays him $200 mil

and then we wallow in mediocrity because we gave up the best QB we have had since Daunte for an unproven prospect
Post #: 3872
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/23/2024 1:49:20 PM   
Todd M

 

Posts: 40939
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris Olson

It's a pipe dream to think we can sign Sam to a 3 yr/$120 mil

I can't imagine he will have to sign anything less than a 4 yr/$200

Maybe we can do a franchise tag, but that sucks for Sam and he (or rather, his agent) will do as much as he can to get out of it...

likely force a big trade, we get 2 firsts and keep our top ten pick QB and bolster the team with talent...and stay out of cap hell and someone else pays him $200 mil

and then we wallow in mediocrity because we gave up the best QB we have had since Daunte for an unproven prospect


I was good until you said - and then…lol

Probably good to be down from my - and then.

…and then JJM takes the reigns and is the new Mahomes.

_____________________________

The ego holds on to pain from the past to prevent pain in the future, which causes pain in the present.

Keith Crossley
Post #: 3873
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/23/2024 2:01:26 PM   
Pager


Posts: 10501
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline 		Resigning SD is an option. If he prices himself out, for me it's >40M per, then a tag and trade is absolutely on the table. Tag and trades happen frequently. You work out trade comp with the trading team while a new contract is worked out. SD has input on partner and obv on new contract. Tag is applied and the trade consummated. All parties benefit and doesn't tie up cap space to go after FAs (I want CB Reed and Trey Smith). I'd expect to receive a 2025 2nd and a conditional 2026 pick. It doesn't screw SD over and helps restock draft picks. If terms aren't agreed to then you don't apply a tag. Upside is you've got a rookie QB contract, extra draft pick(s), and cap space to build with.

Is it a risk? Absolutely, just like Reid trading Smith after a career year to go with Mahomes. But KOC has gone over JJM college tape, worked with him a full offseason (almost), and is monitoring his season progress and system acclimation. It's pretty cool they have a webcam for JJM to watch SD in practice (maybe through a QB feed?). Plus JJM is doing VR. I'm comfortable going with Doug Jones and JJM next year.

I have zero angst about this decision.

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.
Post #: 3874
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/23/2024 2:04:08 PM   
Chris Olson


Posts: 6804
Joined: 7/15/2007
From: Saratoga Springs, NY
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris Olson

It's a pipe dream to think we can sign Sam to a 3 yr/$120 mil

I can't imagine he will have to sign anything less than a 4 yr/$200

Maybe we can do a franchise tag, but that sucks for Sam and he (or rather, his agent) will do as much as he can to get out of it...

likely force a big trade, we get 2 firsts and keep our top ten pick QB and bolster the team with talent...and stay out of cap hell and someone else pays him $200 mil

and then we wallow in mediocrity because we gave up the best QB we have had since Daunte for an unproven prospect


I was good until you said - and then…lol

Probably good to be down from my - and then.

…and then JJM takes the reigns and is the new Mahomes.

lol

if we get rid of Darnold/let him walk, then I hope you are right

we just don't have any proof that he can play in the NFL, as Brad continues to point out
Post #: 3875
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