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RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/14/2025 3:26:25 PM   
Richard Neussendorfer

 

Posts: 20309
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

Got a lot more than I expected at the start of the year. I was hoping we could go around .500.

Most all the experts had us finishing last in our Division.
Hell of a fun year until the last 2 games. Unfortunately those 2 games were as bad as it gets.
Until we solve our OL issues we simply can't play the big boys.
Thought we had something in Darnold.....I was so wrong.
Expect huge changes on this roster.

Good to hear from you Steve! The roster next year is going to be interesting for sure!
Post #: 5126
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/14/2025 3:27:31 PM   
TJSweens


Posts: 45147
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Doogie thinks the Franchise Tag is still in play for a trade.

But he thinks that by March 5th we'll know what his trade market looks like.

He also thinks Sam will still get a Geno Smith or Baker Mayfield deal. And that we shouldn't expect more than a late Day 2 pick. Maybe even a 4th.


somebody is going to make him their starting quarterback...he's got to be worth a 2nd...a team with a good offensive-minded head coach...49ers....

kwesi is already talking to other gm's about it - expect a handshake agreement very soon....

On one hand the lack of top QB prospects in this draft would make Sam a desired commodity. On the other hand, how much will his value be offset by the salary he will likely command?

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."
Post #: 5127
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/14/2025 3:36:12 PM   
Jeff Jesser


Posts: 19575
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

I think most on here have the same basic views on our QB situation so I'll ask this:

JJM given the #1 chance it most likely a given.

If both would accept a 1 year, 10 mill backup role, do you offer that to SD or DJ's?


Neither.

The average backup QB makes about $5 million. We need to get serious about the OL, DL, and DBs.

.
jones would probably stay for $5mm...it's quarterback camp for him if he's serious about working his way back to a starting role....


I only used those 2 as options as I think that's the plan. I agree with Bill though. Save the money and us it more wisely. JJM goes in as the starter and if he stinks it up, no backup is going to lead us to the SB so just continue to build with a better draft pick.

The best part of this season is that I never got fully sucked in. Just enjoyed knowing we are still a ways a way.
Post #: 5128
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/14/2025 3:58:12 PM   
Daniel Lee Young

 

Posts: 14461
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

I wish I could go off the grid. Check in once a year after Championship Sunday and see if the Vikings made the SB. If they did…stay hooked up for a couple of weeks and enjoy. If not click off and only waste a tiny bit of time thinking about them.

I don’t want to go through all this again.



I’m in that canoe..

Reading the defenders of shitty QB’s..

People thinking Management is genius going into a draft with 3 picks..

A coach who was anointed COTY, without a playoff win,

“ bUt ThE tEaM wOn 14 GaMeS…”

BFD..

THEY CHOKED,when it mattered most, 2 in a row.. one and done.. for what seems like the 20th straight time..

Why? Shit for brains QB, couldn’t see or throw to open receivers…

It’s on tape.. he (Sloth Darnold), choked on his on fear…
Post #: 5129
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/14/2025 4:04:44 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 78274
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

I think most on here have the same basic views on our QB situation so I'll ask this:

JJM given the #1 chance it most likely a given.

If both would accept a 1 year, 10 mill backup role, do you offer that to SD or DJ's?


Probably DJ.

I would rather have a Joe Milton type though as our money will be needed to build the roster.

Phil Mackey mentioned that half the NFL rosters have QBs paid over 40 million.
https://overthecap.com/position/quarterback


You've brought him up a couple times. What would you be willing to give up for him that would make NE give up on a guy they have locked up for 1M/year for 3 more years?


Better than Mullens, Rypien, or other retreads.....


Right. But that doesn't answer the question of why NE would give him up when they have him for dirt cheap for 3 more years. We'd have to give up something of significant value to get him.
Post #: 5130
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/14/2025 4:06:26 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 78274
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Doogie thinks the Franchise Tag is still in play for a trade.

But he thinks that by March 5th we'll know what his trade market looks like.

He also thinks Sam will still get a Geno Smith or Baker Mayfield deal. And that we shouldn't expect more than a late Day 2 pick. Maybe even a 4th.


somebody is going to make him their starting quarterback...he's got to be worth a 2nd...a team with a good offensive-minded head coach...49ers....

kwesi is already talking to other gm's about it - expect a handshake agreement very soon....


We're not getting a 2nd. Especially not after the past 2 games.

And what is our leverage? That we'll blow 43M of our cap space to have him back up JJ if they don't agree to our terms?

< Message edited by David Levine -- 1/14/2025 4:07:36 PM >
Post #: 5131
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/14/2025 4:36:16 PM   
ratoppenheimer


Posts: 9659
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Doogie thinks the Franchise Tag is still in play for a trade.

But he thinks that by March 5th we'll know what his trade market looks like.

He also thinks Sam will still get a Geno Smith or Baker Mayfield deal. And that we shouldn't expect more than a late Day 2 pick. Maybe even a 4th.


somebody is going to make him their starting quarterback...he's got to be worth a 2nd...a team with a good offensive-minded head coach...49ers....

kwesi is already talking to other gm's about it - expect a handshake agreement very soon....


We're not getting a 2nd. Especially not after the past 2 games.

And what is our leverage? That we'll blow 43M of our cap space to have him back up JJ if they don't agree to our terms?


it'll be worked out before we franchise him, with darnold's people, too...they can negotiate it now - today....

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.
Post #: 5132
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/14/2025 4:42:14 PM   
Brad H


Posts: 23255
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Minnesota has pick 24 in the draft. That and two 5ths.


That can best be defined as GM malpractice.

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!
Post #: 5133
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/14/2025 4:46:34 PM   
ratoppenheimer


Posts: 9659
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

I think most on here have the same basic views on our QB situation so I'll ask this:

JJM given the #1 chance it most likely a given.

If both would accept a 1 year, 10 mill backup role, do you offer that to SD or DJ's?


Neither.

The average backup QB makes about $5 million. We need to get serious about the OL, DL, and DBs.

.
jones would probably stay for $5mm...it's quarterback camp for him if he's serious about working his way back to a starting role....


I only used those 2 as options as I think that's the plan. I agree with Bill though. Save the money and us it more wisely. JJM goes in as the starter and if he stinks it up, no backup is going to lead us to the SB so just continue to build with a better draft pick.

The best part of this season is that I never got fully sucked in. Just enjoyed knowing we are still a ways a way.



$5mm is saving money, not mullens cheap, but probably better...mccarthy will start with jones at #2...the upside with jones is that when the 'new and improved' jones leaves, we maneuver some draft picks out of it....

perhaps i'm crazy, and kwesi isn't thinking trade value with darnold or jones....

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.
Post #: 5134
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/14/2025 4:50:58 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 78274
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Doogie thinks the Franchise Tag is still in play for a trade.

But he thinks that by March 5th we'll know what his trade market looks like.

He also thinks Sam will still get a Geno Smith or Baker Mayfield deal. And that we shouldn't expect more than a late Day 2 pick. Maybe even a 4th.


somebody is going to make him their starting quarterback...he's got to be worth a 2nd...a team with a good offensive-minded head coach...49ers....

kwesi is already talking to other gm's about it - expect a handshake agreement very soon....


We're not getting a 2nd. Especially not after the past 2 games.

And what is our leverage? That we'll blow 43M of our cap space to have him back up JJ if they don't agree to our terms?


it'll be worked out before we franchise him, with darnold's people, too...they can negotiate it now - today....


What's our leverage?

Darnold's people can just take whatever offer they get from a team Sam wants to go to.
Post #: 5135
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/14/2025 4:52:28 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 78274
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

I think most on here have the same basic views on our QB situation so I'll ask this:

JJM given the #1 chance it most likely a given.

If both would accept a 1 year, 10 mill backup role, do you offer that to SD or DJ's?


Neither.

The average backup QB makes about $5 million. We need to get serious about the OL, DL, and DBs.

.
jones would probably stay for $5mm...it's quarterback camp for him if he's serious about working his way back to a starting role....


I only used those 2 as options as I think that's the plan. I agree with Bill though. Save the money and us it more wisely. JJM goes in as the starter and if he stinks it up, no backup is going to lead us to the SB so just continue to build with a better draft pick.

The best part of this season is that I never got fully sucked in. Just enjoyed knowing we are still a ways a way.



$5mm is saving money, not mullens cheap, but probably better...mccarthy will start with jones at #2...the upside with jones is that when the 'new and improved' jones leaves, we maneuver some draft picks out of it....

perhaps i'm crazy, and kwesi isn't thinking trade value with darnold or jones....


Only if he plays - and plays well in more than mop-up duty.
Post #: 5136
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/14/2025 5:07:55 PM   
Mark Anderson

 

Posts: 12260
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Doogie thinks the Franchise Tag is still in play for a trade.

But he thinks that by March 5th we'll know what his trade market looks like.

He also thinks Sam will still get a Geno Smith or Baker Mayfield deal. And that we shouldn't expect more than a late Day 2 pick. Maybe even a 4th.


somebody is going to make him their starting quarterback...he's got to be worth a 2nd...a team with a good offensive-minded head coach...49ers....

kwesi is already talking to other gm's about it - expect a handshake agreement very soon....


We're not getting a 2nd. Especially not after the past 2 games.

And what is our leverage? That we'll blow 43M of our cap space to have him back up JJ if they don't agree to our terms?


it'll be worked out before we franchise him, with darnold's people, too...they can negotiate it now - today....

Don't think it could happen now. Teams don't think he is worth 40M. Or giving up draft picks.

My guess is Pittsburgh or Cleveland land him for 20M per.
Post #: 5137
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/14/2025 5:10:24 PM   
Mark Anderson

 

Posts: 12260
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Minnesota has pick 24 in the draft. That and two 5ths.


That can best be defined as GM malpractice.

You have to give Snead and McVay credit.

They went from trading all their draft picks and building a SB winner. Now they have went the draft route and sitting pretty.

Only blemish is nothing behind Stafford yet.
Post #: 5138
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/14/2025 6:48:53 PM   
Pager


Posts: 10530
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

I understand Vikings fans being upset. I get it. It's a loss in the playoffs.

However, I can't get behind the black and white argument that one person lost this game. That's just emotional and childish.



Agree Brad. A lot has been posted, so some of my two cents is redundant. I'll share my thoughts that I texted a friend that is also/was pro-darnold. He also has a very dark view prognosis for the Vikings. Also posting with the caveat that I haven't done any All22 analysis for routes/etc AND I turned off the game at the end of the 3rd quarter (had early morning start and was not staying awake for that sh#% show).

I put 30% on Darnold, 30% on KOC, 40% on oline. Starting with KOC....the 4th down attempt. JJ on an out was the only option it seemed. Hated that play call. Also wanted him to grow stones and go for it on 4th and 2 instead of the field goal. I figured he was gun shy after the Lions game, but Campbell sure as hell would have gone for it. We were not beating the Rams with Field Goals. Their strip sack and TD on the 2nd and three? Yelling at the TV to check to a run. Get past the line of scrimmage on a blitz, you pick up a ton of yards. Our screen play is abysmal. At some point you gotta make defenses pay for blitzing. Had plenty of chances vs the Lions (Darnold missed them all). Transitioning to Darnold. He simply can’t anticipate. Missed Nailor on a big gainer, but more than accuracy, him waiting until Nailor cleared the LB to throw it??? Terrible. It's a big part of why he holds the ball so fing long. Throw when he's inaccurate and game over. I also was yelling at him to take the F off. One play, he had a clear lane to run, then danced to the right, back into the pocket, held the ball until getting smoked. I felt like there were other instances. Oline - need I say more?

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.
Post #: 5139
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/14/2025 7:00:10 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 29280
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Doogie thinks the Franchise Tag is still in play for a trade.

But he thinks that by March 5th we'll know what his trade market looks like.

He also thinks Sam will still get a Geno Smith or Baker Mayfield deal. And that we shouldn't expect more than a late Day 2 pick. Maybe even a 4th.


somebody is going to make him their starting quarterback...he's got to be worth a 2nd...a team with a good offensive-minded head coach...49ers....

kwesi is already talking to other gm's about it - expect a handshake agreement very soon....


We're not getting a 2nd. Especially not after the past 2 games.

And what is our leverage? That we'll blow 43M of our cap space to have him back up JJ if they don't agree to our terms?


it'll be worked out before we franchise him, with darnold's people, too...they can negotiate it now - today....


What's our leverage?

Darnold's people can just take whatever offer they get from a team Sam wants to go to.


Exactly. Sam doesn't have to sign the franchise offer. In this scenario he is in the driver's seat, not the Vikings. He will sign the offer if a team he wants to go to is bidding for his services. If that team offers a 5th, the Vikings would be wise to take it vs the Vikings having to set aside/fence off $40M if all of a sudden Sam decides to sigh the offer. Meanwhile good free agents are getting snapped up on day 1 of free agency.
Post #: 5140
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/14/2025 7:01:14 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 29280
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Minnesota has pick 24 in the draft. That and two 5ths.


That can best be defined as GM malpractice.

You have to give Snead and McVay credit.

They went from trading all their draft picks and building a SB winner. Now they have went the draft route and sitting pretty.

Only blemish is nothing behind Stafford yet.


And they nailed the 2024 draft, so far.
Post #: 5141
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/14/2025 7:08:33 PM   
Pager


Posts: 10530
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline
2025 and beyond.

There is benefit for teams to want to trade for Sam Darnold. Remember what Cousins did? Got an offer from the Jets, then got the Vikings to raise their offer and match it. The trade partner can negotiate prior to SD hitting the open market, which has value. I agree that the compensation has gone WAY down. Previously thought we could get a 2025 2nd and a 2026 conditional pick that could escalate to a 1st. I'm now thinking a 2025 3rd or 4th and maybe a 2026 conditional with a lower ceiling. Kwesi will know probably before the playoffs are over if there is trade value. I still feel like SD can get a Mayfield type contract, 30-35M. The guaranteed money has probably gone way down and there will probably be an out after two years. But I don't think teams will completely discount 14 wins, 4300 yds, 36 total TDs, 103 rating, only 12 picks. The wild card is Sam Darnold's camp. If they absolutely want to test the market, then you'd be playing chicken using the tag (and the Vikings would lose).

As far as future, all depends on McCarthy. I'm still pretty high on him and think we would get 10 wins with JJ/Jones in large part because of the cap space and additional team building. Getting Darrisaw back will be huge, Robinson played terrible down the stretch. Get a stud guard Will fries or Trey smith and oline takes a massive step forward. Will Fries, I think will be cheaper than Smith, but is younger and rated pretty high. Braddbury is serviceable if he is the weakest link IMO. He was rated as the 9th best center around week 14 if I remember right. Good in the run game and relatively inexpensive. Get Reed and you have a lockdown CB. You'd still have cap to resign guys you want or get IDL and secondary help. Kewsi has gotten great value in FA. But we are f'd if he continues to draft poorly and trade away picks.

< Message edited by Pager -- 1/14/2025 7:13:24 PM >


_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.
Post #: 5142
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/14/2025 7:11:00 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 29280
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

I understand Vikings fans being upset. I get it. It's a loss in the playoffs.

However, I can't get behind the black and white argument that one person lost this game. That's just emotional and childish.



Agree Brad. A lot has been posted, so some of my two cents is redundant. I'll share my thoughts that I texted a friend that is also/was pro-darnold. He also has a very dark view prognosis for the Vikings. Also posting with the caveat that I haven't done any All22 analysis for routes/etc AND I turned off the game at the end of the 3rd quarter (had early morning start and was not staying awake for that sh#% show).

I put 30% on Darnold, 30% on KOC, 40% on oline. Starting with KOC....the 4th down attempt. JJ on an out was the only option it seemed. Hated that play call. Also wanted him to grow stones and go for it on 4th and 2 instead of the field goal. I figured he was gun shy after the Lions game, but Campbell sure as hell would have gone for it. We were not beating the Rams with Field Goals. Their strip sack and TD on the 2nd and three? Yelling at the TV to check to a run. Get past the line of scrimmage on a blitz, you pick up a ton of yards. Our screen play is abysmal. At some point you gotta make defenses pay for blitzing. Had plenty of chances vs the Lions (Darnold missed them all). Transitioning to Darnold. He simply can’t anticipate. Missed Nailor on a big gainer, but more than accuracy, him waiting until Nailor cleared the LB to throw it??? Terrible. It's a big part of why he holds the ball so fing long. Throw when he's inaccurate and game over. I also was yelling at him to take the F off. One play, he had a clear lane to run, then danced to the right, back into the pocket, held the ball until getting smoked. I felt like there were other instances. Oline - need I say more?


If Darnold had just been average early vs Det the complexion of that game changes.

If Darnold had just been average early against the Rams, the Rams might have called off the dogs. Granted he did complete a few checkdowns.

Instead, we saw a kinda quirky but effective QB turn into some scared rookie. Certainly nobody you could EVER count on, especially given his past futility.

It was like George Plimpton II suddenly showed up on the field, but not for the Lions (or Rams).
Post #: 5143
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/14/2025 7:20:21 PM   
Pager


Posts: 10530
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

I understand Vikings fans being upset. I get it. It's a loss in the playoffs.

However, I can't get behind the black and white argument that one person lost this game. That's just emotional and childish.



Agree Brad. A lot has been posted, so some of my two cents is redundant. I'll share my thoughts that I texted a friend that is also/was pro-darnold. He also has a very dark view prognosis for the Vikings. Also posting with the caveat that I haven't done any All22 analysis for routes/etc AND I turned off the game at the end of the 3rd quarter (had early morning start and was not staying awake for that sh#% show).

I put 30% on Darnold, 30% on KOC, 40% on oline. Starting with KOC....the 4th down attempt. JJ on an out was the only option it seemed. Hated that play call. Also wanted him to grow stones and go for it on 4th and 2 instead of the field goal. I figured he was gun shy after the Lions game, but Campbell sure as hell would have gone for it. We were not beating the Rams with Field Goals. Their strip sack and TD on the 2nd and three? Yelling at the TV to check to a run. Get past the line of scrimmage on a blitz, you pick up a ton of yards. Our screen play is abysmal. At some point you gotta make defenses pay for blitzing. Had plenty of chances vs the Lions (Darnold missed them all). Transitioning to Darnold. He simply can’t anticipate. Missed Nailor on a big gainer, but more than accuracy, him waiting until Nailor cleared the LB to throw it??? Terrible. It's a big part of why he holds the ball so fing long. Throw when he's inaccurate and game over. I also was yelling at him to take the F off. One play, he had a clear lane to run, then danced to the right, back into the pocket, held the ball until getting smoked. I felt like there were other instances. Oline - need I say more?


If Darnold had just been average early vs Det the complexion of that game changes.

If Darnold had just been average early against the Rams, the Rams might have called off the dogs. Granted he did complete a few checkdowns.

Instead, we saw a kinda quirky but effective QB turn into some scared rookie. Certainly nobody you could EVER count on, especially given his past futility.

It was like George Plimpton II suddenly showed up on the field, but not for the Lions (or Rams).



Am I coming across as a SD apologist? I railed on him after the Detroit game and posted tons of evidence to support it. I put 100% of the Lions game on him and thought should have been up by 17 at half. Which, to your point, would have changed the game.

Again, my impression last night is without any research, but I didn't feel like it was 100% Darnold. Ineffective running early (either play calling and/or oline play). I also didn't like some of the play calls, which I couldn't say after the Lions game. Not every play call is going to work; sometimes the wrong play and often because of execution. I also thought the oline played worse than the Lions game (LA has an impressive and young defensive front).

It's just my opinion though.

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.
Post #: 5144
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/14/2025 7:20:38 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 29280
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

2025 and beyond.

There is benefit for teams to want to trade for Sam Darnold. Remember what Cousins did? Got an offer from the Jets, then got the Vikings to raise their offer and match it. The trade partner can negotiate prior to SD hitting the open market, which has value. I agree that the compensation has gone WAY down. Previously thought we could get a 2025 2nd and a 2026 conditional pick that could escalate to a 1st. I'm now thinking a 2025 3rd or 4th and maybe a 2026 conditional with a lower ceiling. Kwesi will know probably before the playoffs are over if there is trade value. I still feel like SD can get a Mayfield type contract, 30-35M. The guaranteed money has probably gone way down and there will probably be an out after two years. But I don't think teams will completely discount 14 wins, 4300 yds, 36 total TDs, 103 rating, only 12 picks. The wild card is Sam Darnold's camp. If they absolutely want to test the market, then you'd be playing chicken using the tag (and the Vikings would lose).

As far as future, all depends on McCarthy. I'm still pretty high on him and think we would get 10 wins with JJ/Jones in large part because of the cap space and additional team building. Getting Darrisaw back will be huge, Robinson played terrible down the stretch. Get a stud guard Will fries or Trey smith and oline takes a massive step forward. Will Fries, I think will be cheaper than Smith, but is younger and rated pretty high. Braddbury is serviceable if he is the weakest link IMO. He was rated as the 9th best center around week 14 if I remember right. Good in the run game and relatively inexpensive. Get Reed and you have a lockdown CB. You'd still have cap to resign guys you want or get IDL and secondary help. Kewsi has gotten great value in FA. But we are f'd if he continues to draft poorly and trade away picks.


Good post.

And like Mike Florio said in the link posted today, there is a lot of grift generated by NFL owners and the machine saying we want to win the SB but really being ok with 'good enough'. In that vein there is definitely a market for Darnold. Cheap Darnold might get you a couple of extra wins. Just expect the gifs to pop up if any bright lights hit.
Post #: 5145
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/14/2025 7:22:59 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 29280
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

I understand Vikings fans being upset. I get it. It's a loss in the playoffs.

However, I can't get behind the black and white argument that one person lost this game. That's just emotional and childish.



Agree Brad. A lot has been posted, so some of my two cents is redundant. I'll share my thoughts that I texted a friend that is also/was pro-darnold. He also has a very dark view prognosis for the Vikings. Also posting with the caveat that I haven't done any All22 analysis for routes/etc AND I turned off the game at the end of the 3rd quarter (had early morning start and was not staying awake for that sh#% show).

I put 30% on Darnold, 30% on KOC, 40% on oline. Starting with KOC....the 4th down attempt. JJ on an out was the only option it seemed. Hated that play call. Also wanted him to grow stones and go for it on 4th and 2 instead of the field goal. I figured he was gun shy after the Lions game, but Campbell sure as hell would have gone for it. We were not beating the Rams with Field Goals. Their strip sack and TD on the 2nd and three? Yelling at the TV to check to a run. Get past the line of scrimmage on a blitz, you pick up a ton of yards. Our screen play is abysmal. At some point you gotta make defenses pay for blitzing. Had plenty of chances vs the Lions (Darnold missed them all). Transitioning to Darnold. He simply can’t anticipate. Missed Nailor on a big gainer, but more than accuracy, him waiting until Nailor cleared the LB to throw it??? Terrible. It's a big part of why he holds the ball so fing long. Throw when he's inaccurate and game over. I also was yelling at him to take the F off. One play, he had a clear lane to run, then danced to the right, back into the pocket, held the ball until getting smoked. I felt like there were other instances. Oline - need I say more?


If Darnold had just been average early vs Det the complexion of that game changes.

If Darnold had just been average early against the Rams, the Rams might have called off the dogs. Granted he did complete a few checkdowns.

Instead, we saw a kinda quirky but effective QB turn into some scared rookie. Certainly nobody you could EVER count on, especially given his past futility.

It was like George Plimpton II suddenly showed up on the field, but not for the Lions (or Rams).



Am I coming across as a SD apologist? I railed on him after the Detroit game and posted tons of evidence to support it. I put 100% of the Lions game on him and thought should have been up by 17 at half. Which, to your point, would have changed the game.

Again, my impression last night is without any research, but I didn't feel like it was 100% Darnold. Ineffective running early (either play calling and/or oline play). I also didn't like some of the play calls, which I couldn't say after the Lions game. Not every play call is going to work; sometimes the wrong play and often because of execution. I also thought the oline played worse than the Lions game (LA has an impressive and young defensive front).

It's just my opinion though.


No, not an apologist. 30% blame? Eh
Post #: 5146
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/14/2025 7:24:56 PM   
Bill Jandro

 

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What it boils down to is this team is flat out soft. We're a finesse team that has to pass to set up the run. But when the pass isn't working (last two games) we got nothing else. Other than Darrisaw this oline is made up of a bunch of sissy boys (including O'Neal).

Things get much tougher and more physical in the post season. Refs let shit go and we just got bullied by one of the more finesse teams of the last decade. Let that sink in for a minute.

First and foremost we did to get some olineman in here that can actually run block. If we're going to roll with JJM he needs to be protected or he's going get ruined. For six seasons we all watched Cousins fill his diaper and we thought we found a steely nerve qb in Sam until the last 2 games when he urinated down his leg.

I've grown tired of watching this team choke when the big games get played. Time to get some tough motherfuckers in here that can move the pile so we can control the game.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 5147
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/14/2025 7:27:38 PM   
Pager


Posts: 10530
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline
I had pretty low expectations for the playoffs after the Lions game. My gut feeling was bad playing the Rams. Would have much rather gone to Florida. So I'm not too distraught today. I enjoyed the regular season a lot (again because of low expectations).

I also feel pretty good about McCarthy so I'm optimistic about the future for the Vikings. Kwesi has already demonstrated good signings. Big caveats are drafting/developing and retaining Flores (I offer him Assistant Head Coach title and commiserate pay). I don't think he'll leave unless it's a optimal situation. You fail twice as a head coach and it will be a long time as a coordinator before you're given a chance again. Especially after the lawsuit.

But who knows??

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.
Post #: 5148
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/14/2025 7:29:16 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 29280
Status: offline
The only question with Darnold is whether we can get anything for him without impacting free agency.

Because anything would be a boost considering most of the upcoming draft was traded away for the #17 pick. And boy was Kwesi happy selecting Turner. I think he'll be good but if he can't get on the field than what is the point?

Kwesi got Edge Happy.
Post #: 5149
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/14/2025 7:31:54 PM   
Pager


Posts: 10530
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

I understand Vikings fans being upset. I get it. It's a loss in the playoffs.

However, I can't get behind the black and white argument that one person lost this game. That's just emotional and childish.



Agree Brad. A lot has been posted, so some of my two cents is redundant. I'll share my thoughts that I texted a friend that is also/was pro-darnold. He also has a very dark view prognosis for the Vikings. Also posting with the caveat that I haven't done any All22 analysis for routes/etc AND I turned off the game at the end of the 3rd quarter (had early morning start and was not staying awake for that sh#% show).

I put 30% on Darnold, 30% on KOC, 40% on oline. Starting with KOC....the 4th down attempt. JJ on an out was the only option it seemed. Hated that play call. Also wanted him to grow stones and go for it on 4th and 2 instead of the field goal. I figured he was gun shy after the Lions game, but Campbell sure as hell would have gone for it. We were not beating the Rams with Field Goals. Their strip sack and TD on the 2nd and three? Yelling at the TV to check to a run. Get past the line of scrimmage on a blitz, you pick up a ton of yards. Our screen play is abysmal. At some point you gotta make defenses pay for blitzing. Had plenty of chances vs the Lions (Darnold missed them all). Transitioning to Darnold. He simply can’t anticipate. Missed Nailor on a big gainer, but more than accuracy, him waiting until Nailor cleared the LB to throw it??? Terrible. It's a big part of why he holds the ball so fing long. Throw when he's inaccurate and game over. I also was yelling at him to take the F off. One play, he had a clear lane to run, then danced to the right, back into the pocket, held the ball until getting smoked. I felt like there were other instances. Oline - need I say more?


If Darnold had just been average early vs Det the complexion of that game changes.

If Darnold had just been average early against the Rams, the Rams might have called off the dogs. Granted he did complete a few checkdowns.

Instead, we saw a kinda quirky but effective QB turn into some scared rookie. Certainly nobody you could EVER count on, especially given his past futility.

It was like George Plimpton II suddenly showed up on the field, but not for the Lions (or Rams).



Am I coming across as a SD apologist? I railed on him after the Detroit game and posted tons of evidence to support it. I put 100% of the Lions game on him and thought should have been up by 17 at half. Which, to your point, would have changed the game.

Again, my impression last night is without any research, but I didn't feel like it was 100% Darnold. Ineffective running early (either play calling and/or oline play). I also didn't like some of the play calls, which I couldn't say after the Lions game. Not every play call is going to work; sometimes the wrong play and often because of execution. I also thought the oline played worse than the Lions game (LA has an impressive and young defensive front).

It's just my opinion though.


No, not an apologist. 30% blame? Eh



SMH - always with the semantics or splitting hairs. I put a number to it without the benefit of more analysis (which is more than some ppl are willing to do). It could change but I'm good with it right now. You are more than welcome to post your number.

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.
Post #: 5150
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