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RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/30/2025 8:43:17 AM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 5978
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

Yards per carry: 2024: 4.2, 2023: 4.0 2022: 4.1.
Yards before first contact/per attempt: 2024: 2.4 2023: 2.42 2022: 2.45
Time to throw: 2024: 2.68 sec (2nd best in NFL). 2023: 2.58 2022: 2.55
Sacks: 2024: 48 2023: 46 2022: 46

2024 is also with Robinson at T for 12 games.

Time to throw is a misleading stat. The timer goes until the QB gets rid of the ball or gets sacked. A QB who holds the ball, waiting for downfield options to open will look like he is getting more time than a QB who gets rid of the ball quickly.

Spot on.

most of these stats are ok talking points but they are so shallow …

Yards per carry year to year? start with Mattison vs Jones vs whoever and go from there.

Just plain ol’ yards per carry? Third and 1 or third and 5 / out of what formation, with a FB or 2 TEs or 5 WRs or QB rpo / against run blitzes or not / against a DL with Williams Carter Davis or against freakin Tillery Phillips Bullard / on obvious passing downs / against a defense protecting a big lead or focused on stopping the run / etc etc

Post #: 5626

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/30/2025 8:47:17 AM

beo

Posts: 2443
Joined: 3/18/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

Why Bradbury remains our starting center, bad back and all, is a frustrating mystery..

Not one other option, ever?

Yeesh..

No cap hell to use as an excuse finally in 2025. Oline has to be addressed and the haunting it has created was spoken about in one of the last few games by KOC in a presser after a game.

KOC first two years it was a tight cap and maybe the reason Kwesi traded down his first year. Of course it didn’t work but there was a reason.

Even last year there was a ton of dead cap yet the work on the roster and many of the moves ended up aces.

Even so... I think it's unlikely they replace all 3 interior in one season.
My guess is Bradbury is back.

Hoping for 1 stud G and 1 mid tier G signing.

if we cut Bradbury and Ingram that saves us $6.5mm in '25 cap space....we sign colt's free agent center ryan kelly for $20mm/3yrs - with a '25 cap hit of $5-6mm-ish....done....

we sign trey smilth and scherff at guards - or two guards, one top 15 and one top 25....

\

I don't hate it.

But devil's advocate:
1) Kelly is 31.... so some risk there
2) Scherff is 33... so now you have added risk
3) I doubt they replace all 3 guys

That being said... Kwesi suprise me!

Post #: 5627

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/30/2025 8:54:00 AM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 5978
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

IMO we have to have PFF, sometimes not always maybe not usually, its useful for comparison … a lot of research is put into their grades … but if you don’t know the play called, the play design, responsibilities and adjustments for each player, they’re only useful to a point.

Football ain’t quantum mechanics … but human behaviour is … difficult to quantify.

Post #: 5628

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/30/2025 8:54:57 AM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 5978
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

Why Bradbury remains our starting center, bad back and all, is a frustrating mystery..

Not one other option, ever?

Yeesh..

No cap hell to use as an excuse finally in 2025. Oline has to be addressed and the haunting it has created was spoken about in one of the last few games by KOC in a presser after a game.

KOC first two years it was a tight cap and maybe the reason Kwesi traded down his first year. Of course it didn’t work but there was a reason.

Even last year there was a ton of dead cap yet the work on the roster and many of the moves ended up aces.

Even so... I think it's unlikely they replace all 3 interior in one season.
My guess is Bradbury is back.

Hoping for 1 stud G and 1 mid tier G signing.

if we cut Bradbury and Ingram that saves us $6.5mm in '25 cap space....we sign colt's free agent center ryan kelly for $20mm/3yrs - with a '25 cap hit of $5-6mm-ish....done....

we sign trey smilth and scherff at guards - or two guards, one top 15 and one top 25....

\

I don't hate it.

But devil's advocate:
1) Kelly is 31.... so some risk there
2) Scherff is 33... so now you have added risk
3) I doubt they replace all 3 guys

That being said... Kwesi suprise me!

Well said.

Post #: 5629

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/30/2025 11:26:06 AM

TJSweens

Posts: 45248
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

Yards per carry: 2024: 4.2, 2023: 4.0 2022: 4.1.
Yards before first contact/per attempt: 2024: 2.4 2023: 2.42 2022: 2.45
Time to throw: 2024: 2.68 sec (2nd best in NFL). 2023: 2.58 2022: 2.55
Sacks: 2024: 48 2023: 46 2022: 46

2024 is also with Robinson at T for 12 games.

Time to throw is a misleading stat. The timer goes until the QB gets rid of the ball or gets sacked. A QB who holds the ball, waiting for downfield options to open will look like he is getting more time than a QB who gets rid of the ball quickly.

Interpretation of stats with critical thinking is not allowed..
Cherries must be picked, when ripe..

Damn! And here I thought your produce expertise was limited to corn.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 5630

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/30/2025 11:59:04 AM

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9680
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

Why Bradbury remains our starting center, bad back and all, is a frustrating mystery..

Not one other option, ever?

Yeesh..

No cap hell to use as an excuse finally in 2025. Oline has to be addressed and the haunting it has created was spoken about in one of the last few games by KOC in a presser after a game.

KOC first two years it was a tight cap and maybe the reason Kwesi traded down his first year. Of course it didn’t work but there was a reason.

Even last year there was a ton of dead cap yet the work on the roster and many of the moves ended up aces.

Even so... I think it's unlikely they replace all 3 interior in one season.
My guess is Bradbury is back.

Hoping for 1 stud G and 1 mid tier G signing.

if we cut Bradbury and Ingram that saves us $6.5mm in '25 cap space....we sign colt's free agent center ryan kelly for $20mm/3yrs - with a '25 cap hit of $5-6mm-ish....done....

we sign trey smilth and scherff at guards - or two guards, one top 15 and one top 25....

\

I don't hate it.

But devil's advocate:
1) Kelly is 31.... so some risk there
2) Scherff is 33... so now you have added risk
3) I doubt they replace all 3 guys

That being said... Kwesi suprise me!

the only place that I know of to grade o-linemen is pff, so forgive me if you hate it....

kelly grades as a better center, at 17th/64, to bradbury's 33rd/64....kelly grades as a much better pass blocker, while Bradbury grades as a better run blocker....

name...overall, pass, run

kelly...67, 71.9, 64
bradbury...62.1, 48.2, 70.7

scherff...64.7, 74.5, 64....53rd/135
brandel...55.1, 61.4, 57.9...98th/135

if i'm a wilf brother, i'm absolutely demanding kwesi upgrade all three positions...i'm giving my top 10 quarterback pick all the protection i can, and the best chance for success....

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.

Post #: 5631

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/30/2025 12:52:12 PM

marty

Posts: 13274
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

Right now I see KOC as similar to a Denny Green.

Green's teams were knocked out in the 1st round of the playoffs the 1st 4 times. He didn't win until he had a real QB, and that was Randall Cunningham, and Green almost blew that game with poor clock management. "the Vikings came back from a 22–13 deficit with 90 seconds to play to win 23–22", against the Giants.

That was 1997, the next season they got Randy Moss.

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 5632

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/30/2025 12:53:47 PM

marty

Posts: 13274
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

I would like to see what KOC can do with a good QB, hope that is JJ McCarthy.

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 5633

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/30/2025 12:58:28 PM

marty

Posts: 13274
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

Kirk Cousins - a mediocre QB, good throwing arm, but doesn't see things quick enough. He starts out slowly in big games, when his team is behind enough, he accelerates and sees things quicker.

When the opposing team realizes they might have a fight on their hands, their defense picks up the pace, and shuts down Kirk to where his checkdowns aren't enough to win. Earlier in his career, it was usually fumbles, getting picked, or getting sacked.

Darnold - another QB that can throw, but also doesn't see things quickly. He had faster starts than Kirk in the regular season, but mentally didn't seem able to handle big games, seemed lost at what to do.

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 5634

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/30/2025 1:09:46 PM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 28596
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Kirk Cousins - a mediocre QB, good throwing arm, but doesn't see things quick enough. He starts out slowly in big games, when his team is behind enough, he accelerates and sees things quicker.

When the opposing team realizes they might have a fight on their hands, their defense picks up the pace, and shuts down Kirk to where his checkdowns aren't enough to win. Earlier in his career, it was usually fumbles, getting picked, or getting sacked.

Darnold - another QB that can throw, but also doesn't see things quickly. He had faster starts than Kirk in the regular season, but mentally didn't seem able to handle big games, seemed lost at what to do.

Difference is having a top 5-6 qb versus the rest. Don’t pay up for the rest and you can compete by filling out the rest of the team.
That is the crow I ate from both the Kirk and Sam eras. Sam went better than I thought. Kirk was Kirk.

Even look back to what we paid Randall 1998 versus 99. He had a great revival year like Sam.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 1/30/2025 1:12:10 PM >

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 5635

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/30/2025 10:09:02 PM

Pager

Posts: 10570
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

Yards per carry: 2024: 4.2, 2023: 4.0 2022: 4.1.
Yards before first contact/per attempt: 2024: 2.4 2023: 2.42 2022: 2.45
Time to throw: 2024: 2.68 sec (2nd best in NFL). 2023: 2.58 2022: 2.55
Sacks: 2024: 48 2023: 46 2022: 46

2024 is also with Robinson at T for 12 games.

Time to throw is a misleading stat. The timer goes until the QB gets rid of the ball or gets sacked. A QB who holds the ball, waiting for downfield options to open will look like he is getting more time than a QB who gets rid of the ball quickly.

Any stat in a vacuum can be misleading. It's why I posted multiple stats per category, to provide additional context. Pass/Run blocking win rate by position, PFF scores, etc could have all provided addition insight. BUT I wasn't going to stay up all night to help provide data for someone else's assertion.

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.

Post #: 5636

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/31/2025 7:54:13 AM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 28596
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

Yards per carry: 2024: 4.2, 2023: 4.0 2022: 4.1.
Yards before first contact/per attempt: 2024: 2.4 2023: 2.42 2022: 2.45
Time to throw: 2024: 2.68 sec (2nd best in NFL). 2023: 2.58 2022: 2.55
Sacks: 2024: 48 2023: 46 2022: 46

2024 is also with Robinson at T for 12 games.

Time to throw is a misleading stat. The timer goes until the QB gets rid of the ball or gets sacked. A QB who holds the ball, waiting for downfield options to open will look like he is getting more time than a QB who gets rid of the ball quickly.

Any stat in a vacuum can be misleading. It's why I posted multiple stats per category, to provide additional context. Pass/Run blocking win rate by position, PFF scores, etc could have all provided addition insight. BUT I wasn't going to stay up all night to help provide data for someone else's assertion.

If you look at Mahomes career; he actually was trying to get the big play every pass play at one point even when his line wasn't as good. That was a struggle for him over a few years.

Sam will have to learn to take the first open read; with another team of course.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 1/31/2025 10:23:19 AM >

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 5637

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/31/2025 9:14:00 AM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 5978
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

Yards per carry: 2024: 4.2, 2023: 4.0 2022: 4.1.
Yards before first contact/per attempt: 2024: 2.4 2023: 2.42 2022: 2.45
Time to throw: 2024: 2.68 sec (2nd best in NFL). 2023: 2.58 2022: 2.55
Sacks: 2024: 48 2023: 46 2022: 46

2024 is also with Robinson at T for 12 games.

Time to throw is a misleading stat. The timer goes until the QB gets rid of the ball or gets sacked. A QB who holds the ball, waiting for downfield options to open will look like he is getting more time than a QB who gets rid of the ball quickly.

Any stat in a vacuum can be misleading. It's why I posted multiple stats per category, to provide additional context. Pass/Run blocking win rate by position, PFF scores, etc could have all provided addition insight. BUT I wasn't going to stay up all night to help provide data for someone else's assertion.

My eyeballs glued to the tv couldn’t be any less insightful … I get that.

But these stats are too general to infer anything that the multiple sets of glued eyeballs in here have observed and put forth IMO.

< Message edited by Tom Sykes -- 1/31/2025 9:48:10 AM >

Post #: 5638

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/31/2025 9:44:59 AM

Daniel Lee Young

Posts: 14683
Status: offline

I can see a turd bomb game/ team performance coming within a Quarter of watching.. once the “ scripted walkthrough plays are exhausted, usually within a series or four, depending on success rate, it becomes a game of chess that invariably leads to “ checkmate in 12 moves”…

I used to remember watching games, an know, this is gonna be a win, if we don’t give the ball away or go really soft on defense..

Now, it’s, ..throw the dam ball!.. why do they run the EXAVT SAME PLAY, every time on First and ten.. or.. stop playing bot to lose!

I miss being able to go cook something or grab a beer without coming back to some disaster like a hive sack, strip sack, return or TD against or lost fumble, interception, TD run or throw called back by penalty…

I guess this is the way..

Vikings Mandalorian..

Post #: 5639

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/31/2025 10:24:40 AM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 28596
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

Yards per carry: 2024: 4.2, 2023: 4.0 2022: 4.1.
Yards before first contact/per attempt: 2024: 2.4 2023: 2.42 2022: 2.45
Time to throw: 2024: 2.68 sec (2nd best in NFL). 2023: 2.58 2022: 2.55
Sacks: 2024: 48 2023: 46 2022: 46

2024 is also with Robinson at T for 12 games.

Time to throw is a misleading stat. The timer goes until the QB gets rid of the ball or gets sacked. A QB who holds the ball, waiting for downfield options to open will look like he is getting more time than a QB who gets rid of the ball quickly.

Any stat in a vacuum can be misleading. It's why I posted multiple stats per category, to provide additional context. Pass/Run blocking win rate by position, PFF scores, etc could have all provided addition insight. BUT I wasn't going to stay up all night to help provide data for someone else's assertion.

My eyeballs glued to the tv couldn’t be any less insightful … I get that.

But these stats are too general to infer anything that the multiple sets of glued eyeballs in here have observed and put forth IMO.

There is a big Oline difference from Darrisaw to Cam.....that alone will improve that spot but there isn't a way they don't address the black hole middle. IMO they keep Brandel and cut Bradbury/Ingram.

Rouse is willing to work on Guard also but that is for the future.....hit FA or draft on C and RG.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 1/31/2025 10:25:42 AM >

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 5640

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/31/2025 11:05:47 AM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 5978
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

Yards per carry: 2024: 4.2, 2023: 4.0 2022: 4.1.
Yards before first contact/per attempt: 2024: 2.4 2023: 2.42 2022: 2.45
Time to throw: 2024: 2.68 sec (2nd best in NFL). 2023: 2.58 2022: 2.55
Sacks: 2024: 48 2023: 46 2022: 46

2024 is also with Robinson at T for 12 games.

Time to throw is a misleading stat. The timer goes until the QB gets rid of the ball or gets sacked. A QB who holds the ball, waiting for downfield options to open will look like he is getting more time than a QB who gets rid of the ball quickly.

Any stat in a vacuum can be misleading. It's why I posted multiple stats per category, to provide additional context. Pass/Run blocking win rate by position, PFF scores, etc could have all provided addition insight. BUT I wasn't going to stay up all night to help provide data for someone else's assertion.

My eyeballs glued to the tv couldn’t be any less insightful … I get that.

But these stats are too general to infer anything that the multiple sets of glued eyeballs in here have observed and put forth IMO.

There is a big Oline difference from Darrisaw to Cam.....that alone will improve that spot but there isn't a way they don't address the black hole middle. IMO they keep Brandel and cut Bradbury/Ingram.

Rouse is willing to work on Guard also but that is for the future.....hit FA or draft on C and RG.

I want to believe that but I have to see it to believe it.

Three offseasons with no practical difference from the Spielaman IOL era before it.

Yes they made a stab in the legendary 2022 draft with Ingram, and not every draft pick works out (especially reaches like Ingram), but that black hole seems to be sucking in any light from the end of the iol tunnel …

At least for someone like me that’s lost his faith.

Post #: 5641

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/31/2025 2:11:13 PM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 28596
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

I wouldn’t mind drafting the NDSU guard early in the draft. May be the best scenario. Grab the rest thru FA.

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 5642

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/31/2025 2:22:46 PM

TJSweens

Posts: 45248
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

Yards per carry: 2024: 4.2, 2023: 4.0 2022: 4.1.
Yards before first contact/per attempt: 2024: 2.4 2023: 2.42 2022: 2.45
Time to throw: 2024: 2.68 sec (2nd best in NFL). 2023: 2.58 2022: 2.55
Sacks: 2024: 48 2023: 46 2022: 46

2024 is also with Robinson at T for 12 games.

Time to throw is a misleading stat. The timer goes until the QB gets rid of the ball or gets sacked. A QB who holds the ball, waiting for downfield options to open will look like he is getting more time than a QB who gets rid of the ball quickly.

Any stat in a vacuum can be misleading. It's why I posted multiple stats per category, to provide additional context. Pass/Run blocking win rate by position, PFF scores, etc could have all provided addition insight. BUT I wasn't going to stay up all night to help provide data for someone else's assertion.

My eyeballs glued to the tv couldn’t be any less insightful … I get that.

But these stats are too general to infer anything that the multiple sets of glued eyeballs in here have observed and put forth IMO.

There is a big Oline difference from Darrisaw to Cam.....that alone will improve that spot but there isn't a way they don't address the black hole middle. IMO they keep Brandel and cut Bradbury/Ingram.

Rouse is willing to work on Guard also but that is for the future.....hit FA or draft on C and RG.

They should cut Brandle too. I take PFF with a grain of salt, but he grades out as about the worst starting guard in football. There are 64 starting guards in football and Brandle grades out as #98.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 5643

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/31/2025 2:32:29 PM

David Levine

Posts: 78428
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

Yards per carry: 2024: 4.2, 2023: 4.0 2022: 4.1.
Yards before first contact/per attempt: 2024: 2.4 2023: 2.42 2022: 2.45
Time to throw: 2024: 2.68 sec (2nd best in NFL). 2023: 2.58 2022: 2.55
Sacks: 2024: 48 2023: 46 2022: 46

2024 is also with Robinson at T for 12 games.

Time to throw is a misleading stat. The timer goes until the QB gets rid of the ball or gets sacked. A QB who holds the ball, waiting for downfield options to open will look like he is getting more time than a QB who gets rid of the ball quickly.

Any stat in a vacuum can be misleading. It's why I posted multiple stats per category, to provide additional context. Pass/Run blocking win rate by position, PFF scores, etc could have all provided addition insight. BUT I wasn't going to stay up all night to help provide data for someone else's assertion.

My eyeballs glued to the tv couldn’t be any less insightful … I get that.

But these stats are too general to infer anything that the multiple sets of glued eyeballs in here have observed and put forth IMO.

There is a big Oline difference from Darrisaw to Cam.....that alone will improve that spot but there isn't a way they don't address the black hole middle. IMO they keep Brandel and cut Bradbury/Ingram.

Rouse is willing to work on Guard also but that is for the future.....hit FA or draft on C and RG.

They should cut Brandle too. I take PFF with a grain of salt, but he grades out as about the worst starting guard in football. There are 64 starting guards in football and Brandle grades out as #98.

Right. Dude is 28 and was a 6th round pick 5 years ago. There is no reason to think he's suddenly going to become any kind of player.

Post #: 5644

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/31/2025 3:58:27 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 29588
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

Yards per carry: 2024: 4.2, 2023: 4.0 2022: 4.1.
Yards before first contact/per attempt: 2024: 2.4 2023: 2.42 2022: 2.45
Time to throw: 2024: 2.68 sec (2nd best in NFL). 2023: 2.58 2022: 2.55
Sacks: 2024: 48 2023: 46 2022: 46

2024 is also with Robinson at T for 12 games.

Time to throw is a misleading stat. The timer goes until the QB gets rid of the ball or gets sacked. A QB who holds the ball, waiting for downfield options to open will look like he is getting more time than a QB who gets rid of the ball quickly.

Any stat in a vacuum can be misleading. It's why I posted multiple stats per category, to provide additional context. Pass/Run blocking win rate by position, PFF scores, etc could have all provided addition insight. BUT I wasn't going to stay up all night to help provide data for someone else's assertion.

My eyeballs glued to the tv couldn’t be any less insightful … I get that.

But these stats are too general to infer anything that the multiple sets of glued eyeballs in here have observed and put forth IMO.

There is a big Oline difference from Darrisaw to Cam.....that alone will improve that spot but there isn't a way they don't address the black hole middle. IMO they keep Brandel and cut Bradbury/Ingram.

Rouse is willing to work on Guard also but that is for the future.....hit FA or draft on C and RG.

They should cut Brandle too. I take PFF with a grain of salt, but he grades out as about the worst starting guard in football. There are 64 starting guards in football and Brandle grades out as #98.

Right. Dude is 28 and was a 6th round pick 5 years ago. There is no reason to think he's suddenly going to become any kind of player.

That sounds a lot like Bradbury, except the round he was drafted in. Which doesn't mean a thing outside of it being a poor selection.

Post #: 5645

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/31/2025 4:25:40 PM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 28596
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

Yards per carry: 2024: 4.2, 2023: 4.0 2022: 4.1.
Yards before first contact/per attempt: 2024: 2.4 2023: 2.42 2022: 2.45
Time to throw: 2024: 2.68 sec (2nd best in NFL). 2023: 2.58 2022: 2.55
Sacks: 2024: 48 2023: 46 2022: 46

2024 is also with Robinson at T for 12 games.

Time to throw is a misleading stat. The timer goes until the QB gets rid of the ball or gets sacked. A QB who holds the ball, waiting for downfield options to open will look like he is getting more time than a QB who gets rid of the ball quickly.

Any stat in a vacuum can be misleading. It's why I posted multiple stats per category, to provide additional context. Pass/Run blocking win rate by position, PFF scores, etc could have all provided addition insight. BUT I wasn't going to stay up all night to help provide data for someone else's assertion.

My eyeballs glued to the tv couldn’t be any less insightful … I get that.

But these stats are too general to infer anything that the multiple sets of glued eyeballs in here have observed and put forth IMO.

There is a big Oline difference from Darrisaw to Cam.....that alone will improve that spot but there isn't a way they don't address the black hole middle. IMO they keep Brandel and cut Bradbury/Ingram.

Rouse is willing to work on Guard also but that is for the future.....hit FA or draft on C and RG.

They should cut Brandle too. I take PFF with a grain of salt, but he grades out as about the worst starting guard in football. There are 64 starting guards in football and Brandle grades out as #98.

Right. Dude is 28 and was a 6th round pick 5 years ago. There is no reason to think he's suddenly going to become any kind of player.

Darrisaw and a good center on each side versus Cam and Bradbury. Not as sure on that philophy of cutting Brandel. Risner was really only a slight upgrade over Ingram. My vote is a new C and RG thru FA Brandel and maybe a Rouse or Cam if it doesn’t work out. That changes if they draft IOL in the first of course. Then fix all 3 spots.

At 3-4 million we could keep as a backup also as he doesn’t break the bank.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 1/31/2025 4:31:14 PM >

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Post #: 5646

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/31/2025 6:44:04 PM

TJSweens

Posts: 45248
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

Yards per carry: 2024: 4.2, 2023: 4.0 2022: 4.1.
Yards before first contact/per attempt: 2024: 2.4 2023: 2.42 2022: 2.45
Time to throw: 2024: 2.68 sec (2nd best in NFL). 2023: 2.58 2022: 2.55
Sacks: 2024: 48 2023: 46 2022: 46

2024 is also with Robinson at T for 12 games.

Time to throw is a misleading stat. The timer goes until the QB gets rid of the ball or gets sacked. A QB who holds the ball, waiting for downfield options to open will look like he is getting more time than a QB who gets rid of the ball quickly.

Any stat in a vacuum can be misleading. It's why I posted multiple stats per category, to provide additional context. Pass/Run blocking win rate by position, PFF scores, etc could have all provided addition insight. BUT I wasn't going to stay up all night to help provide data for someone else's assertion.

My eyeballs glued to the tv couldn’t be any less insightful … I get that.

But these stats are too general to infer anything that the multiple sets of glued eyeballs in here have observed and put forth IMO.

There is a big Oline difference from Darrisaw to Cam.....that alone will improve that spot but there isn't a way they don't address the black hole middle. IMO they keep Brandel and cut Bradbury/Ingram.

Rouse is willing to work on Guard also but that is for the future.....hit FA or draft on C and RG.

They should cut Brandle too. I take PFF with a grain of salt, but he grades out as about the worst starting guard in football. There are 64 starting guards in football and Brandle grades out as #98.

Right. Dude is 28 and was a 6th round pick 5 years ago. There is no reason to think he's suddenly going to become any kind of player.

Darrisaw and a good center on each side versus Cam and Bradbury. Not as sure on that philophy of cutting Brandel. Risner was really only a slight upgrade over Ingram. My vote is a new C and RG thru FA Brandel and maybe a Rouse or Cam if it doesn’t work out. That changes if they draft IOL in the first of course. Then fix all 3 spots.

At 3-4 million we could keep as a backup also as he doesn’t break the bank.

Risner was the only Vikings IOL with a respectable grade. Brandel is just flat out terrible. Having Darrisaw and a top center flanking Brandel isn't going to make him a better blocker.

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Post #: 5647

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/1/2025 5:48:04 AM

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9680
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline

.
dalton risner had a better pass blocking number than trey smith and scherff - and he had never played right guard in his life....

put risner back on the left side and sign tevon jenkins/will fries, and kelly at center - done...cut ingram and bradbury and we could fix the entire o-line with a reasonable cap hit....

imo: if we run back bradbury, kwesi is an absolute idiot....

overall, pass blocking, run blocking

risner
67, 76.2, 57.4...pff

trey smith
78.8, 70.6, 80.8

< Message edited by ratoppenheimer -- 2/1/2025 6:13:38 AM >

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the journey...is paradise.

Post #: 5648

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/1/2025 11:53:02 AM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12307
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

I wouldn’t mind drafting the NDSU guard early in the draft. May be the best scenario. Grab the rest thru FA.

Not at #24

Trade back to 2nd round and we could still get him. I think.

Post #: 5649

RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/1/2025 12:30:21 PM

Jeff Jesser

Posts: 19625
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: offline

From what I've read this draft is deep in DT and RB. Use 24 (if they don't trade back) for best DT available, grab RB with a later pick and use FA to focus on IOL and CB. If they choose wisely we should have a solid roster going in to the year.

Post #: 5650