quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

Proposed Home Schedule:

Chicago Bears
Detroit Lions
Green Bay Packers
Philadelphia Eagles
Washington Commanders
Baltimore Ravens
Cincinnati Bengals
Atlanta Falcons

Proposed Away Schedule:

Chicago Bears
Detroit Lions
Green Bay Packers
Dallas Cowboys
New York Giants
Pittsburgh Steelers
Cleveland Browns
Seattle Seahawks
Los Angeles Chargers

Good luck to our rookie quarterback coming off a knee injury with zero lifetime completions. He'll be facing 7-8 of the elite defenses in the league.

Yes, good luck to him.

And regardless of the schedule, most fans will or should expect a drop-off in QB play primarily because he is a rookie. So don't go thinking you've cornered the market on that (likely) outcome. Whether he plays great, flops, or is somewhere in-between remains to be seen. But he hasn't been ridiculed nationally for choking.

Again, I don't think he choked. And BTW, those same critics that were ridiculing him for choking were calling him the potential MVP two weeks earlier.

I'll tell you who did choke, though. Their coach choked repeatedly over the final two games.

I guess de nial ain't just a river in Egypt. Darnold completely choked in those last two games. To say otherwise is just complete and total denial. By the second half of the playoff game, he was in a full blown panic.

Did Patrick Mahomes choke in the Super Bowl? I don't think so. He got his ass kicked because the Eagles defensive line was far superior to the Chiefs offensive line. The Chiefs had 23 yards at the half. Mahomes had a 10.7 passer rating in the first half. I don't see his fan base calling him a choker, and that's about as bad of a half as a quarterback has ever had in a pressure situation.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

Brad, just answer this. Do YOU think that SD (at a cap hit of 40+ million) can win the SB with this Vikings team given the FA's we need to bring in to get better? To a large extent I do agree about KOC. That said, he had a much bigger choke job against Det, IMO. He missed a bunch of easy throws early and that started his meltdown. LA just over ran out OLine.

The money has nothing to do with whether or not Darnold has what it takes to win a Super Bowl. The guy won 14 games with one of the worst offensive lines in football. He did it by extending plays and moving the chains as a result. Then, suddenly, when a defense took away his ability to extend plays the fans called him a choker. The previous quarterback continuously checked down on big plays and gave up on games. I'd rather have the guy trying to make a play to win a game.

Lets not act like Detroit and Los Angeles had nothing to do with the games. Their staffs completely outcoached and outplayed our offensive coordinator. Detroit exposed us and the Rams went with the same formula. O'Connell never made an adjustment to put his guy in a position to win.

Sam Darnold could have done more. Nobody will argue with that. But the guy proved throughout the year to be very capable of winning games. JJ McCarthy has proven nothing. Zip, zero nada.

I'm not sure what it would take to sign Darnold. You throw out $40-million. I'm not so sure about that number.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

No, he came back and threw 3 TD passes. Mahomes also has a pretty storied history of rising to the occasion. Of course the Chiefs fans didn't call him a chocker....HE'S WON THREE SUPERBOWLS.

His coaching staff made adjustments and the Eagles played prevent defense to keep the clock running. His first half was as bad of a half as anyone has ever played in the Super Bowl.

And yes, he has won three Super Bowls. Good for him. BTW, there is very few others in the league right now that have won any. Are you going to call them out for being chokers? Is Josh Allen a choker? He's never won a Super Bowl. Not only has he never won a Super Bowl, he's never been to one. So next time he has a bad game I'd like to see you calling him a choker.

If the barometer is winning a Super Bowl, only Mahomes, Stafford and Hurts get a free pass. Everyone else is a choker according to the rules of Sweens.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

No, he came back and threw 3 TD passes. Mahomes also has a pretty storied history of rising to the occasion. Of course the Chiefs fans didn't call him a chocker....HE'S WON THREE SUPERBOWLS.

His coaching staff made adjustments and the Eagles played prevent defense to keep the clock running. His first half was as bad of a half as anyone has ever played in the Super Bowl.

And yes, he has won three Super Bowls. Good for him. BTW, there is very few others in the league right now that have won any. Are you going to call them out for being chokers? Is Josh Allen a choker? He's never won a Super Bowl. Not only has he never won a Super Bowl, he's never been to one. So next time he has a bad game I'd like to see you calling him a choker.

If the barometer is winning a Super Bowl, only Mahomes, Stafford and Hurts get a free pass. Everyone else is a choker according to the rules of Sweens.

Wow, you've been debating Phil so long, you've gotten pretty good at moving goal posts yourself.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

No, he came back and threw 3 TD passes. Mahomes also has a pretty storied history of rising to the occasion. Of course the Chiefs fans didn't call him a chocker....HE'S WON THREE SUPERBOWLS.

His coaching staff made adjustments and the Eagles played prevent defense to keep the clock running. His first half was as bad of a half as anyone has ever played in the Super Bowl.

And yes, he has won three Super Bowls. Good for him. BTW, there is very few others in the league right now that have won any. Are you going to call them out for being chokers? Is Josh Allen a choker? He's never won a Super Bowl. Not only has he never won a Super Bowl, he's never been to one. So next time he has a bad game I'd like to see you calling him a choker.

If the barometer is winning a Super Bowl, only Mahomes, Stafford and Hurts get a free pass. Everyone else is a choker according to the rules of Sweens.

Wow, you've been debating Phil so long, you've gotten pretty good at moving goal posts yourself.

If by that you mean it's an irrefutable point, I would agree.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

LOL. I just heard a stat that makes me feel great about our situation. Dallas owes Dak 290 million in cap room over the next 4 years

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

Brad, just answer this. Do YOU think that SD (at a cap hit of 40+ million) can win the SB with this Vikings team given the FA's we need to bring in to get better? To a large extent I do agree about KOC. That said, he had a much bigger choke job against Det, IMO. He missed a bunch of easy throws early and that started his meltdown. LA just over ran out OLine.

The money has nothing to do with whether or not Darnold has what it takes to win a Super Bowl. The guy won 14 games with one of the worst offensive lines in football. He did it by extending plays and moving the chains as a result. Then, suddenly, when a defense took away his ability to extend plays the fans called him a choker. The previous quarterback continuously checked down on big plays and gave up on games. I'd rather have the guy trying to make a play to win a game.

Lets not act like Detroit and Los Angeles had nothing to do with the games. Their staffs completely outcoached and outplayed our offensive coordinator. Detroit exposed us and the Rams went with the same formula. O'Connell never made an adjustment to put his guy in a position to win.

Sam Darnold could have done more. Nobody will argue with that. But the guy proved throughout the year to be very capable of winning games. JJ McCarthy has proven nothing. Zip, zero nada.

I'm not sure what it would take to sign Darnold. You throw out $40-million. I'm not so sure about that number.

I don't disagree 1 bit about the coaching staffs lack of adjustments to help Sam out. We got played in that department for sure. I bring up the money because, IMO, it has everything to do with what it takes for ANY QB on this team to win the SB. Without the extra cap space we can't solve the OLine issues (and that assumes we finally put the resources to try, big IF).

JJM hasn't proven anything, correct. I think most are willing to give him the chance but again, that assumes the money that is saved from giving Sam the bag goes to upgrading the OLine/DLine/Secondary ect. Sadly, KAM's drafts are coming home to roost.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

Brad, just answer this. Do YOU think that SD (at a cap hit of 40+ million) can win the SB with this Vikings team given the FA's we need to bring in to get better? To a large extent I do agree about KOC. That said, he had a much bigger choke job against Det, IMO. He missed a bunch of easy throws early and that started his meltdown. LA just over ran out OLine.

The money has nothing to do with whether or not Darnold has what it takes to win a Super Bowl. The guy won 14 games with one of the worst offensive lines in football. He did it by extending plays and moving the chains as a result. Then, suddenly, when a defense took away his ability to extend plays the fans called him a choker. The previous quarterback continuously checked down on big plays and gave up on games. I'd rather have the guy trying to make a play to win a game.

Lets not act like Detroit and Los Angeles had nothing to do with the games. Their staffs completely outcoached and outplayed our offensive coordinator. Detroit exposed us and the Rams went with the same formula. O'Connell never made an adjustment to put his guy in a position to win.

Sam Darnold could have done more. Nobody will argue with that. But the guy proved throughout the year to be very capable of winning games. JJ McCarthy has proven nothing. Zip, zero nada.

I'm not sure what it would take to sign Darnold. You throw out $40-million. I'm not so sure about that number.

I don't disagree 1 bit about the coaching staffs lack of adjustments to help Sam out. We got played in that department for sure. I bring up the money because, IMO, it has everything to do with what it takes for ANY QB on this team to win the SB. Without the extra cap space we can't solve the OLine issues (and that assumes we finally put the resources to try, big IF).

JJM hasn't proven anything, correct. I think most are willing to give him the chance but again, that assumes the money that is saved from giving Sam the bag goes to upgrading the OLine/DLine/Secondary ect. Sadly, KAM's drafts are coming home to roost.

Does no one but David read/watch the links posted? SD had guys open short, intermediate, long in both games. Go rewatch the opening drive vs the Rams, short pass after short pass. KOC didn't all of sudden stop calling those plays. There is no miracle "adjustment" that is going to improve accuracy, processing, and help a QB grow stones.

It's a lazy argument to blame coaching and the oline when the QB played so fing inept both games.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

Since Brad is turtling in presenting a rebuilt Oline and sign Darnold offseason plan, I thought I'd give it a try. Same premise of cutting Ingram and Ham. But adding Bradbury to the cut list too.

I target Fries for RG. 4 year deal 58M deal. Call first year cap hit 7M. 51M left in cap space. Dalman gets a similar 4 year deal, 44M cap left. Sign James Daniel to a 1 yr prove it deal at 8M, 36M left.

SD, I'll be generous and give us a discount. Signs a 3 year 105M deal. First year cap hit of 15M. 21M left in the cap.

At this point, the 2026 cap space is down to roughly 20M (101-(SD 45M+WF 18M+ DD 18M).

You can backload and add cap years (I didn't deduct money to sign draft picks and space for the season). Right now Vikings are 14th (if I remember right) for most voided cap liabilities in the future. You can also trade JJM for draft picks (9M cap hit so you can't take on much salary). You could also sign a guy like Zeitler for maybe 14M over two years (he is 34 yo) instead of Will Fries. It could work if Kwesi threads the draft perfectly and gets immediate contributors at CB, IDL, RB (possible with a JJM first round draft pick). You'd be bargain basement shopping for one safety - I'll pencil in Theo Jackson for the other spot for 3M. You'd also need to go cheap at one corner, and hope/expect Blackmon to come back strong.

If you think SD is the answer, like Brad does, and you backload contracts and trade JJM for a 2 year window, and Darnold doesn't develop as a playoff QB (like Goff) then you literally are F'd. You need to find a QB and have a pretty bad cap situation. Whereas if JJM doesn't pan out, you're not in cap hell but still need to find a QB.

And Brad, I have posted what I think JJM will provide as a starter over Darnold.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

Brad, just answer this. Do YOU think that SD (at a cap hit of 40+ million) can win the SB with this Vikings team given the FA's we need to bring in to get better? To a large extent I do agree about KOC. That said, he had a much bigger choke job against Det, IMO. He missed a bunch of easy throws early and that started his meltdown. LA just over ran out OLine.

The money has nothing to do with whether or not Darnold has what it takes to win a Super Bowl. The guy won 14 games with one of the worst offensive lines in football. He did it by extending plays and moving the chains as a result. Then, suddenly, when a defense took away his ability to extend plays the fans called him a choker. The previous quarterback continuously checked down on big plays and gave up on games. I'd rather have the guy trying to make a play to win a game.

Lets not act like Detroit and Los Angeles had nothing to do with the games. Their staffs completely outcoached and outplayed our offensive coordinator. Detroit exposed us and the Rams went with the same formula. O'Connell never made an adjustment to put his guy in a position to win.

Sam Darnold could have done more. Nobody will argue with that. But the guy proved throughout the year to be very capable of winning games. JJ McCarthy has proven nothing. Zip, zero nada.

I'm not sure what it would take to sign Darnold. You throw out $40-million. I'm not so sure about that number.

I don't disagree 1 bit about the coaching staffs lack of adjustments to help Sam out. We got played in that department for sure. I bring up the money because, IMO, it has everything to do with what it takes for ANY QB on this team to win the SB. Without the extra cap space we can't solve the OLine issues (and that assumes we finally put the resources to try, big IF).

JJM hasn't proven anything, correct. I think most are willing to give him the chance but again, that assumes the money that is saved from giving Sam the bag goes to upgrading the OLine/DLine/Secondary ect. Sadly, KAM's drafts are coming home to roost.

Does no one but David read/watch the links posted? SD had guys open short, intermediate, long in both games. Go rewatch the opening drive vs the Rams, short pass after short pass. KOC didn't all of sudden stop calling those plays. There is no miracle "adjustment" that is going to improve accuracy, processing, and help a QB grow stones.

It's a lazy argument to blame coaching and the oline when the QB played so fing inept both games.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

Since Brad is turtling in presenting a rebuilt Oline and sign Darnold offseason plan, I thought I'd give it a try. Same premise of cutting Ingram and Ham. But adding Bradbury to the cut list too.

I target Fries for RG. 4 year deal 58M deal. Call first year cap hit 7M. 51M left in cap space. Dalman gets a similar 4 year deal, 44M cap left. Sign James Daniel to a 1 yr prove it deal at 8M, 36M left.

SD, I'll be generous and give us a discount. Signs a 3 year 105M deal. First year cap hit of 15M. 21M left in the cap.

At this point, the 2026 cap space is down to roughly 20M (101-(SD 45M+WF 18M+ DD 18M).

You can backload and add cap years (I didn't deduct money to sign draft picks and space for the season). Right now Vikings are 14th (if I remember right) for most voided cap liabilities in the future. You can also trade JJM for draft picks (9M cap hit so you can't take on much salary). You could also sign a guy like Zeitler for maybe 14M over two years (he is 34 yo) instead of Will Fries. It could work if Kwesi threads the draft perfectly and gets immediate contributors at CB, IDL, RB (possible with a JJM first round draft pick). You'd be bargain basement shopping for one safety - I'll pencil in Theo Jackson for the other spot for 3M. You'd also need to go cheap at one corner, and hope/expect Blackmon to come back strong.

If you think SD is the answer, like Brad does, and you backload contracts and trade JJM for a 2 year window, and Darnold doesn't develop as a playoff QB (like Goff) then you literally are F'd. You need to find a QB and have a pretty bad cap situation. Whereas if JJM doesn't pan out, you're not in cap hell but still need to find a QB.

And Brad, I have posted what I think JJM will provide as a starter over Darnold.

I would rather have Garropolo or Jones as insurance policies at their contracts if JJM doesn't work.

SKor North will have roster build 4.0 on today....they haven't had one where we resign Sam (in the first 3). They have had some other ways to create more cap though:
Extend O'Neil and Metellus, cut Ham, Bradbury, and Ingram are the 5 most popular.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

Brad, just answer this. Do YOU think that SD (at a cap hit of 40+ million) can win the SB with this Vikings team given the FA's we need to bring in to get better? To a large extent I do agree about KOC. That said, he had a much bigger choke job against Det, IMO. He missed a bunch of easy throws early and that started his meltdown. LA just over ran out OLine.

The money has nothing to do with whether or not Darnold has what it takes to win a Super Bowl. The guy won 14 games with one of the worst offensive lines in football. He did it by extending plays and moving the chains as a result. Then, suddenly, when a defense took away his ability to extend plays the fans called him a choker. The previous quarterback continuously checked down on big plays and gave up on games. I'd rather have the guy trying to make a play to win a game.

Lets not act like Detroit and Los Angeles had nothing to do with the games. Their staffs completely outcoached and outplayed our offensive coordinator. Detroit exposed us and the Rams went with the same formula. O'Connell never made an adjustment to put his guy in a position to win.

Sam Darnold could have done more. Nobody will argue with that. But the guy proved throughout the year to be very capable of winning games. JJ McCarthy has proven nothing. Zip, zero nada.

I'm not sure what it would take to sign Darnold. You throw out $40-million. I'm not so sure about that number.

I don't disagree 1 bit about the coaching staffs lack of adjustments to help Sam out. We got played in that department for sure. I bring up the money because, IMO, it has everything to do with what it takes for ANY QB on this team to win the SB. Without the extra cap space we can't solve the OLine issues (and that assumes we finally put the resources to try, big IF).

JJM hasn't proven anything, correct. I think most are willing to give him the chance but again, that assumes the money that is saved from giving Sam the bag goes to upgrading the OLine/DLine/Secondary ect. Sadly, KAM's drafts are coming home to roost.

Does no one but David read/watch the links posted? SD had guys open short, intermediate, long in both games. Go rewatch the opening drive vs the Rams, short pass after short pass. KOC didn't all of sudden stop calling those plays. There is no miracle "adjustment" that is going to improve accuracy, processing, and help a QB grow stones.

It's a lazy argument to blame coaching and the oline when the QB played so fing inept both games.

It couldn't be more clear. Except for Brad (and that's about scruples, not perception), there hasn't been one poster in here who hasn't put the lion's share of blame on Darnold.

100% of the blame? For both games?

No way.

I bet if you look at a lot videos for any QB on a lot of plays, you'll find someone open that he missed. Does that sync up with the QBs eyes being in the right place at the right time, the timing of him stepping into his throw and releasing the ball? Was the design of the play supposed to go that WR? Much less clear. Unless your video has a KOC or SD voice-over explaining what the keys were on the play, what he was looking at, etc., the video is telling only part of the story.

In our last two games, Darnold threw a lot of bad passes ... with an open wr ... with time ... all on him.

A lot of the holding on to the ball too long went way past waiting for WRs to uncover ... was brutal ... on him.

However, if you coach a downfield passing attack game in and game out for three seasons, train your QB all season long play to play a certain way, to key on your downfield route first and then work your back to the middle and short options, that you need to get the ball more to your superstar wr, and then watch while he's holding on to the ball too long all season ... its disingenuous to put all the blame on that QB

If nothing else, if its a one and done playoff game and your QB has seized-up completely, you owe it to everybody else to make a change.

Oh ... you don't have a backup adequate enough to play better than your completely stupefied starter? Whose fault is that?

Obviously Darnold missed open WRs. But it's simplistic not to include playcalling, adjustments, in game coaching, protections, and how the defense played, etc. etc

The lazy part is accepting the easy one-dimensional answer.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

Brad, just answer this. Do YOU think that SD (at a cap hit of 40+ million) can win the SB with this Vikings team given the FA's we need to bring in to get better? To a large extent I do agree about KOC. That said, he had a much bigger choke job against Det, IMO. He missed a bunch of easy throws early and that started his meltdown. LA just over ran out OLine.

The money has nothing to do with whether or not Darnold has what it takes to win a Super Bowl. The guy won 14 games with one of the worst offensive lines in football. He did it by extending plays and moving the chains as a result. Then, suddenly, when a defense took away his ability to extend plays the fans called him a choker. The previous quarterback continuously checked down on big plays and gave up on games. I'd rather have the guy trying to make a play to win a game.

Lets not act like Detroit and Los Angeles had nothing to do with the games. Their staffs completely outcoached and outplayed our offensive coordinator. Detroit exposed us and the Rams went with the same formula. O'Connell never made an adjustment to put his guy in a position to win.

Sam Darnold could have done more. Nobody will argue with that. But the guy proved throughout the year to be very capable of winning games. JJ McCarthy has proven nothing. Zip, zero nada.

I'm not sure what it would take to sign Darnold. You throw out $40-million. I'm not so sure about that number.

I don't disagree 1 bit about the coaching staffs lack of adjustments to help Sam out. We got played in that department for sure. I bring up the money because, IMO, it has everything to do with what it takes for ANY QB on this team to win the SB. Without the extra cap space we can't solve the OLine issues (and that assumes we finally put the resources to try, big IF).

JJM hasn't proven anything, correct. I think most are willing to give him the chance but again, that assumes the money that is saved from giving Sam the bag goes to upgrading the OLine/DLine/Secondary ect. Sadly, KAM's drafts are coming home to roost.

Does no one but David read/watch the links posted? SD had guys open short, intermediate, long in both games. Go rewatch the opening drive vs the Rams, short pass after short pass. KOC didn't all of sudden stop calling those plays. There is no miracle "adjustment" that is going to improve accuracy, processing, and help a QB grow stones.

It's a lazy argument to blame coaching and the oline when the QB played so fing inept both games.

It couldn't be more clear. Except for Brad (and that's about scruples, not perception), there hasn't been one poster in here who hasn't put the lion's share of blame on Darnold.

100% of the blame? For both games?

No way.

I bet if you look at a lot videos for any QB on a lot of plays, you'll find someone open that he missed. Does that sync up with the QBs eyes being in the right place at the right time, the timing of him stepping into his throw and releasing the ball? Was the design of the play supposed to go that WR? Much less clear. Unless your video has a KOC or SD voice-over explaining what the keys were on the play, what he was looking at, etc., the video is telling only part of the story.

In our last two games, Darnold threw a lot of bad passes ... with an open wr ... with time ... all on him.

A lot of the holding on to the ball too long went way past waiting for WRs to uncover ... was brutal ... on him.

However, if you coach a downfield passing attack game in and game out for three seasons, train your QB all season long play to play a certain way, to key on your downfield route first and then work your back to the middle and short options, that you need to get the ball more to your superstar wr, and then watch while he's holding on to the ball too long all season ... its disingenuous to put all the blame on that QB

If nothing else, if its a one and done playoff game and your QB has seized-up completely, you owe it to everybody else to make a change.

Oh ... you don't have a backup adequate enough to play better than your completely stupefied starter? Whose fault is that?

Obviously Darnold missed open WRs. But it's simplistic not to include playcalling, adjustments, in game coaching, protections, and how the defense played, etc. etc

The lazy part is accepting the easy one-dimensional answer.

Lol. Go read my post after the Rams game where I broke down the blame on KOC, the oline, and SD. I think I put 25%, 25%, 50%. I literally got push back from posters as I did not put more of the blame on SD. My offseason plans /discussions are centered on improving the IOL. Notice I'm the only poster who has posted one.

You demonstrate a lack of understanding of NFL play design. KOC does not instruct to key downfield first and then work back. He and all other NFL coaches instruct options based on what the defense is showing. 1 play can have different primary reads depending on the defensive formation. Single high safety? This route is primary. Cover two, this is your primary read. Showing blitz, your key is here. There are so many resources on the internet that break this stuff down.

Having a better back-up QB to bench SD? Really? They brought in Jones and he wasn't ready. Even with hindsight, knowing JJM would go down with a season ending injury and that SD would provide top ten QB play. Please, with your crystal ball, tell me who they should have signed last offseason who could have engineered a stunning comeback in the Rams game.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

Fair enough Phil, I did head over there and saw some FA targets that I like. The Dallas IDL FA is growing on me. He had somewhere in the neighborhood of 60 pressures without much help and is pretty good against the run. Where Milton Williams played on an absolutely stacked DL. For a similar price, I'm now leaning towards him vs Williams. I haven't seen anyone translate FA targets to contracts and impact on the cap. If they have, my fault. I just think it's a worthwhile exercise. Like with the SD plus rebuild oline that I did. It really shows the difference and challenges of paying a QB big bucks.

It's all good. I shouldn't expect people to do the research, even when it's provided. I get frustrated when I read the same talking points, but that's a me problem. Like the misnomer of "adjustments". There was a great podcast where this was discussed and adjustments, in the sense of what the average fan believes them to be, simply do not happen. I'll try and find/post the link.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

Brad, just answer this. Do YOU think that SD (at a cap hit of 40+ million) can win the SB with this Vikings team given the FA's we need to bring in to get better? To a large extent I do agree about KOC. That said, he had a much bigger choke job against Det, IMO. He missed a bunch of easy throws early and that started his meltdown. LA just over ran out OLine.

The money has nothing to do with whether or not Darnold has what it takes to win a Super Bowl. The guy won 14 games with one of the worst offensive lines in football. He did it by extending plays and moving the chains as a result. Then, suddenly, when a defense took away his ability to extend plays the fans called him a choker. The previous quarterback continuously checked down on big plays and gave up on games. I'd rather have the guy trying to make a play to win a game.

Lets not act like Detroit and Los Angeles had nothing to do with the games. Their staffs completely outcoached and outplayed our offensive coordinator. Detroit exposed us and the Rams went with the same formula. O'Connell never made an adjustment to put his guy in a position to win.

Sam Darnold could have done more. Nobody will argue with that. But the guy proved throughout the year to be very capable of winning games. JJ McCarthy has proven nothing. Zip, zero nada.

I'm not sure what it would take to sign Darnold. You throw out $40-million. I'm not so sure about that number.

I don't disagree 1 bit about the coaching staffs lack of adjustments to help Sam out. We got played in that department for sure. I bring up the money because, IMO, it has everything to do with what it takes for ANY QB on this team to win the SB. Without the extra cap space we can't solve the OLine issues (and that assumes we finally put the resources to try, big IF).

JJM hasn't proven anything, correct. I think most are willing to give him the chance but again, that assumes the money that is saved from giving Sam the bag goes to upgrading the OLine/DLine/Secondary ect. Sadly, KAM's drafts are coming home to roost.

Does no one but David read/watch the links posted? SD had guys open short, intermediate, long in both games. Go rewatch the opening drive vs the Rams, short pass after short pass. KOC didn't all of sudden stop calling those plays. There is no miracle "adjustment" that is going to improve accuracy, processing, and help a QB grow stones.

It's a lazy argument to blame coaching and the oline when the QB played so fing inept both games.

It couldn't be more clear. Except for Brad (and that's about scruples, not perception), there hasn't been one poster in here who hasn't put the lion's share of blame on Darnold.

100% of the blame? For both games?

No way.

I bet if you look at a lot videos for any QB on a lot of plays, you'll find someone open that he missed. Does that sync up with the QBs eyes being in the right place at the right time, the timing of him stepping into his throw and releasing the ball? Was the design of the play supposed to go that WR? Much less clear. Unless your video has a KOC or SD voice-over explaining what the keys were on the play, what he was looking at, etc., the video is telling only part of the story.

In our last two games, Darnold threw a lot of bad passes ... with an open wr ... with time ... all on him.

A lot of the holding on to the ball too long went way past waiting for WRs to uncover ... was brutal ... on him.

However, if you coach a downfield passing attack game in and game out for three seasons, train your QB all season long play to play a certain way, to key on your downfield route first and then work your back to the middle and short options, that you need to get the ball more to your superstar wr, and then watch while he's holding on to the ball too long all season ... its disingenuous to put all the blame on that QB

If nothing else, if its a one and done playoff game and your QB has seized-up completely, you owe it to everybody else to make a change.

Oh ... you don't have a backup adequate enough to play better than your completely stupefied starter? Whose fault is that?

Obviously Darnold missed open WRs. But it's simplistic not to include playcalling, adjustments, in game coaching, protections, and how the defense played, etc. etc

The lazy part is accepting the easy one-dimensional answer.

Lol. Go read my post after the Rams game where I broke down the blame on KOC, the oline, and SD. I think I put 25%, 25%, 50%. I literally got push back from posters as I did not put more of the blame on SD. My offseason plans /discussions are centered on improving the IOL. Notice I'm the only poster who has posted one.

You demonstrate a lack of understanding of NFL play design. KOC does not instruct to key downfield first and then work back. He and all other NFL coaches instruct options based on what the defense is showing. 1 play can have different primary reads depending on the defensive formation. Single high safety? This route is primary. Cover two, this is your primary read. Showing blitz, your key is here. There are so many resources on the internet that break this stuff down.

Having a better back-up QB to bench SD? Really? They brought in Jones and he wasn't ready. Even with hindsight, knowing JJM would go down with a season ending injury and that SD would provide top ten QB play. Please, with your crystal ball, tell me who they should have signed last offseason who could have engineered a stunning comeback in the Rams game.

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ORIGINAL: Pager

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ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

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ORIGINAL: Pager

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ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

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ORIGINAL: Brad H

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ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

Brad, just answer this. Do YOU think that SD (at a cap hit of 40+ million) can win the SB with this Vikings team given the FA's we need to bring in to get better? To a large extent I do agree about KOC. That said, he had a much bigger choke job against Det, IMO. He missed a bunch of easy throws early and that started his meltdown. LA just over ran out OLine.

The money has nothing to do with whether or not Darnold has what it takes to win a Super Bowl. The guy won 14 games with one of the worst offensive lines in football. He did it by extending plays and moving the chains as a result. Then, suddenly, when a defense took away his ability to extend plays the fans called him a choker. The previous quarterback continuously checked down on big plays and gave up on games. I'd rather have the guy trying to make a play to win a game.

Lets not act like Detroit and Los Angeles had nothing to do with the games. Their staffs completely outcoached and outplayed our offensive coordinator. Detroit exposed us and the Rams went with the same formula. O'Connell never made an adjustment to put his guy in a position to win.

Sam Darnold could have done more. Nobody will argue with that. But the guy proved throughout the year to be very capable of winning games. JJ McCarthy has proven nothing. Zip, zero nada.

I'm not sure what it would take to sign Darnold. You throw out $40-million. I'm not so sure about that number.

I don't disagree 1 bit about the coaching staffs lack of adjustments to help Sam out. We got played in that department for sure. I bring up the money because, IMO, it has everything to do with what it takes for ANY QB on this team to win the SB. Without the extra cap space we can't solve the OLine issues (and that assumes we finally put the resources to try, big IF).

JJM hasn't proven anything, correct. I think most are willing to give him the chance but again, that assumes the money that is saved from giving Sam the bag goes to upgrading the OLine/DLine/Secondary ect. Sadly, KAM's drafts are coming home to roost.

Does no one but David read/watch the links posted? SD had guys open short, intermediate, long in both games. Go rewatch the opening drive vs the Rams, short pass after short pass. KOC didn't all of sudden stop calling those plays. There is no miracle "adjustment" that is going to improve accuracy, processing, and help a QB grow stones.

It's a lazy argument to blame coaching and the oline when the QB played so fing inept both games.

It couldn't be more clear. Except for Brad (and that's about scruples, not perception), there hasn't been one poster in here who hasn't put the lion's share of blame on Darnold.

100% of the blame? For both games?

No way.

I bet if you look at a lot videos for any QB on a lot of plays, you'll find someone open that he missed. Does that sync up with the QBs eyes being in the right place at the right time, the timing of him stepping into his throw and releasing the ball? Was the design of the play supposed to go that WR? Much less clear. Unless your video has a KOC or SD voice-over explaining what the keys were on the play, what he was looking at, etc., the video is telling only part of the story.

In our last two games, Darnold threw a lot of bad passes ... with an open wr ... with time ... all on him.

A lot of the holding on to the ball too long went way past waiting for WRs to uncover ... was brutal ... on him.

However, if you coach a downfield passing attack game in and game out for three seasons, train your QB all season long play to play a certain way, to key on your downfield route first and then work your back to the middle and short options, that you need to get the ball more to your superstar wr, and then watch while he's holding on to the ball too long all season ... its disingenuous to put all the blame on that QB

If nothing else, if its a one and done playoff game and your QB has seized-up completely, you owe it to everybody else to make a change.

Oh ... you don't have a backup adequate enough to play better than your completely stupefied starter? Whose fault is that?

Obviously Darnold missed open WRs. But it's simplistic not to include playcalling, adjustments, in game coaching, protections, and how the defense played, etc. etc

The lazy part is accepting the easy one-dimensional answer.

Lol. Go read my post after the Rams game where I broke down the blame on KOC, the oline, and SD. I think I put 25%, 25%, 50%. I literally got push back from posters as I did not put more of the blame on SD. My offseason plans /discussions are centered on improving the IOL. Notice I'm the only poster who has posted one.

You demonstrate a lack of understanding of NFL play design. KOC does not instruct to key downfield first and then work back. He and all other NFL coaches instruct options based on what the defense is showing. 1 play can have different primary reads depending on the defensive formation. Single high safety? This route is primary. Cover two, this is your primary read. Showing blitz, your key is here. There are so many resources on the internet that break this stuff down.

Having a better back-up QB to bench SD? Really? They brought in Jones and he wasn't ready. Even with hindsight, knowing JJM would go down with a season ending injury and that SD would provide top ten QB play. Please, with your crystal ball, tell me who they should have signed last offseason who could have engineered a stunning comeback in the Rams game.

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ORIGINAL: Pager

Fair enough Phil, I did head over there and saw some FA targets that I like. The Dallas IDL FA is growing on me. He had somewhere in the neighborhood of 60 pressures without much help and is pretty good against the run. Where Milton Williams played on an absolutely stacked DL. For a similar price, I'm now leaning towards him vs Williams. I haven't seen anyone translate FA targets to contracts and impact on the cap. If they have, my fault. I just think it's a worthwhile exercise. Like with the SD plus rebuild oline that I did. It really shows the difference and challenges of paying a QB big bucks.

It's all good. I shouldn't expect people to do the research, even when it's provided. I get frustrated when I read the same talking points, but that's a me problem. Like the misnomer of "adjustments". There was a great podcast where this was discussed and adjustments, in the sense of what the average fan believes them to be, simply do not happen. link I'll try and find/post the link.