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RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/23/2024 12:30:05 PM   
Jeff Jesser


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From the info I've heard from various plugged in sources, it's not the money it's that he wants it fully guaranteed. Same sources said they did that for Hock so why wouldn't he? If they did it for a top 10 TE that is paid as the #1 with full guarantees.....he'd be stupid not to demand it.

Basically it's being reported that they (KAM that is) broke their stance to only give a QB a fully guaranteed contract and now they are going to have pay for that decision.
Post #: 876
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/23/2024 12:36:27 PM   
TJSweens


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

It’s not just a matter of getting the best deal he can he’s holding out for the best deal ever gotten. For a non QB anyway.

You really think KOM is trying to go cheap? He’s said publically JJ deserves a contract in line with the special player he is. But JJ wants +++.

Agreed. I'm sure we've offered the largest contract ever for a WR and maybe even for a non QB. That should be good enough if he gives a rat's ass about his teammates.

You have no idea what has actually been offered or how the offer has been structured or even if their has been an official offer. It's all speculation at this point. It's reasonable to assume it will be the biggest offer made to a wr since JJ is the best wr in the game. It's also reasonable for JJ to hold out for the biggest deal he can possibly get, since he never have this kind of leverage again.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."
Post #: 877
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/23/2024 12:43:16 PM   
Todd M

 

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Joined: 7/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

From the info I've heard from various plugged in sources, it's not the money it's that he wants it fully guaranteed. Same sources said they did that for Hock so why wouldn't he? If they did it for a top 10 TE that is paid as the #1 with full guarantees.....he'd be stupid not to demand it.

Basically it's being reported that they (KAM that is) broke their stance to only give a QB a fully guaranteed contract and now they are going to have pay for that decision.


Looking at Hock’s contract it only looks like 29 of 66 is guaranteed.
Post #: 878
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/23/2024 1:08:22 PM   
Bill Johanesen


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Doubt any haggling is or will be on a fully guaranteed contract. But say the contract is 4-5 years for $140-175 million. IMO they are more likely to haggle over the % that's guaranteed. 70%? 80%? $100-125 million?
Post #: 879
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/23/2024 1:10:57 PM   
Bill Johanesen


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Can't wait for negotiations with Let's Get Paid.
Post #: 880
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/23/2024 1:17:52 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28600
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

NBC Sports: The Vikings need to pay Jefferson or trade him ...

Id be happy to see them tag him until the end. I'm not a "they need to pay" him type of guy

Yeah

We don't NEED to. I agree. He plays this year on the fifth year option and we and tag him the next two years. I would love to get him signed but there really is no rush.

Him not showing up only makes him look more like a Diva. Looks more difficult a personality to deal with. Lowers his potential contract value.

Let him play this game. Tell him we are suspending negotiations until he shows up. Once he's where he should be...

Really these OTAs are voluntary. He doesn't have to show up.


A 5th year option and two tag years isn't going to happen.

There is not an immediate rush to get the contract done, but stars are not left dangling in the last year of their contract unless something else is brewing or something is amiss. IMO September is the 'everybody is happy' date.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 5/23/2024 1:18:54 PM >
Post #: 881
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/23/2024 1:25:34 PM   
kgdabom

 

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Joined: 7/29/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

It’s not just a matter of getting the best deal he can he’s holding out for the best deal ever gotten. For a non QB anyway.

You really think KOM is trying to go cheap? He’s said publically JJ deserves a contract in line with the special player he is. But JJ wants +++.

Agreed. I'm sure we've offered the largest contract ever for a WR and maybe even for a non QB. That should be good enough if he gives a rat's ass about his teammates.

You have no idea what has actually been offered or how the offer has been structured or even if their has been an official offer. It's all speculation at this point. It's reasonable to assume it will be the biggest offer made to a wr since JJ is the best wr in the game. It's also reasonable for JJ to hold out for the biggest deal he can possibly get, since he never have this kind of leverage again.

I absolutely have an idea about all of that. I shared my idea. Of course it's speculation. IMO he shouldn't hold out for the absolute biggest deal he can get. Leave a little bit on the table. If a few players follow suit we can field a better team and to me that has more value than getting 2% more on his contract.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."
Post #: 882
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/23/2024 1:27:30 PM   
kgdabom

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

From the info I've heard from various plugged in sources, it's not the money it's that he wants it fully guaranteed. Same sources said they did that for Hock so why wouldn't he? If they did it for a top 10 TE that is paid as the #1 with full guarantees.....he'd be stupid not to demand it.

Basically it's being reported that they (KAM that is) broke their stance to only give a QB a fully guaranteed contract and now they are going to have pay for that decision.


Looking at Hock’s contract it only looks like 29 of 66 is guaranteed.

Thanks Todd.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."
Post #: 883
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/23/2024 1:31:18 PM   
fmaltes

 

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In terms of the guaranteed money, an issue for the Wilfs may be that they are cash poor and having to place the total guaranteed contract amount in escrow will be a big deal to them. This is something that separates the ability of richer owners to provide larger guaranteed contracts than the financially weaker owners like the Wilfs. Also, the Wilfs are real estate developers, so it is likely that they do not hold a lot of "liquid wealth".
Post #: 884
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/23/2024 1:50:40 PM   
TJSweens


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quote:

ORIGINAL: fmaltes

In terms of the guaranteed money, an issue for the Wilfs may be that they are cash poor and having to place the total guaranteed contract amount in escrow will be a big deal to them. This is something that separates the ability of richer owners to provide larger guaranteed contracts than the financially weaker owners like the Wilfs. Also, the Wilfs are real estate developers, so it is likely that they do not hold a lot of "liquid wealth".

The NFL has a salary floor and cap. The Wilfs have had no problem guaranteeing money up to the cap for years. Their financial wherewithal is fine. No pro sports organization vets its owners like the NFL.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."
Post #: 885
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/23/2024 1:56:25 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 77938
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: fmaltes

In terms of the guaranteed money, an issue for the Wilfs may be that they are cash poor and having to place the total guaranteed contract amount in escrow will be a big deal to them. This is something that separates the ability of richer owners to provide larger guaranteed contracts than the financially weaker owners like the Wilfs. Also, the Wilfs are real estate developers, so it is likely that they do not hold a lot of "liquid wealth".

The NFL has a salary floor and cap. The Wilfs have had no problem guaranteeing money up to the cap for years. Their financial wherewithal is fine. No pro sports organization vets its owners like the NFL.


That's not what he's talking about. Even if a player isn't going to get all his guaranteed money for years, it all needs to be available the day the contract is signed.

quote:

Per current league rules, all future fully guaranteed money due in a player contract must be placed in escrow at the time the deal is consummated.

"This is actually a huge advantage to high revenue, high profit teams, and a huge disadvantage to the smaller-market teams,"


https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-insider-notes-deshaun-watsons-game-changing-deal-and-its-ramifications-hottest-topic-at-owners-meetings/#:~:text=Per%20current%20league%20rules%2C%20all,time%20the%20deal%20is%20consummated.
Post #: 886
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/23/2024 1:59:45 PM   
TJSweens


Posts: 45016
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

It’s not just a matter of getting the best deal he can he’s holding out for the best deal ever gotten. For a non QB anyway.

You really think KOM is trying to go cheap? He’s said publically JJ deserves a contract in line with the special player he is. But JJ wants +++.

Agreed. I'm sure we've offered the largest contract ever for a WR and maybe even for a non QB. That should be good enough if he gives a rat's ass about his teammates.

You have no idea what has actually been offered or how the offer has been structured or even if their has been an official offer. It's all speculation at this point. It's reasonable to assume it will be the biggest offer made to a wr since JJ is the best wr in the game. It's also reasonable for JJ to hold out for the biggest deal he can possibly get, since he never have this kind of leverage again.

I absolutely have an idea about all of that. I shared my idea. Of course it's speculation. IMO he shouldn't hold out for the absolute biggest deal he can get. Leave a little bit on the table. If a few players follow suit we can field a better team and to me that has more value than getting 2% more on his contract.

He's under no moral obligation to take less. He could blow out a knee the first day of camp and it all goes away. Any player would be foolish not to get the most guaranteed money he can. Any agent who doesn't try to get his client the biggest payout, does that client a disservice. If a contract like that doesn't work for the Vikings, then by all means move him.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."
Post #: 887
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/23/2024 2:08:28 PM   
Todd M

 

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Joined: 7/14/2007
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Ego over team. (Player) $ over fans. (League and Owners)

Unsustainable.
Post #: 888
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/23/2024 2:12:33 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 77938
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Ego over team. (Player) $ over fans. (League and Owners)

Unsustainable.


So the NFL is currently running an unsustainable model?

That would surprise a lot of people...
Post #: 889
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/23/2024 2:15:42 PM   
fmaltes

 

Posts: 1013
Joined: 9/8/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: fmaltes

In terms of the guaranteed money, an issue for the Wilfs may be that they are cash poor and having to place the total guaranteed contract amount in escrow will be a big deal to them. This is something that separates the ability of richer owners to provide larger guaranteed contracts than the financially weaker owners like the Wilfs. Also, the Wilfs are real estate developers, so it is likely that they do not hold a lot of "liquid wealth".

The NFL has a salary floor and cap. The Wilfs have had no problem guaranteeing money up to the cap for years. Their financial wherewithal is fine. No pro sports organization vets its owners like the NFL.


That's not what he's talking about. Even if a player isn't going to get all his guaranteed money for years, it all needs to be available the day the contract is signed.

quote:

Per current league rules, all future fully guaranteed money due in a player contract must be placed in escrow at the time the deal is consummated.

"This is actually a huge advantage to high revenue, high profit teams, and a huge disadvantage to the smaller-market teams,"


https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-insider-notes-deshaun-watsons-game-changing-deal-and-its-ramifications-hottest-topic-at-owners-meetings/#:~:text=Per%20current%20league%20rules%2C%20all,time%20the%20deal%20is%20consummated.


The Wilfs are one of the bottom five owners in terms of net worth and not even close to the top 15 owners. Also, I doubt they have much liquid wealth either which means they actually have to borrow the money for the quarantees that adds easily another 6%plus a year cost. I still think that they will sign Jefferson, we cannot ignore that contract guarantees are a financial issue for them and the other "poor" owners. Personally, I think the league should guarantee the contract payments to maintain parity but the richer owners will not agree. See rankings below:
https://broncoswire.usatoday.com/lists/richest-owners-in-the-nfl-rob-walton-broncos-ranked-number-one/
Post #: 890
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/23/2024 2:17:33 PM   
Todd M

 

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Joined: 7/14/2007
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If JJ and I swapped minds I’d, in his place, insist on taking a big home team discount. $20 million tops. Then, if things went well, instead of getting pushed out as I got up there in age I’d play for near the league minimum.

The league needs more players like me.

I tell you though, JJ is gonna be hella disappointed at his turn of events.

JJ: I lost half my penis. My youth. My skill. My $.
Post #: 891
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/23/2024 2:19:36 PM   
Todd M

 

Posts: 40668
Joined: 7/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Ego over team. (Player) $ over fans. (League and Owners)

Unsustainable.


So the NFL is currently running an unsustainable model?

That would surprise a lot of people...


Like the sun it’ll eventually burn out. #boldprediction
Post #: 892
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/23/2024 2:40:21 PM   
beo

 

Posts: 2390
Joined: 3/18/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

It’s not just a matter of getting the best deal he can he’s holding out for the best deal ever gotten. For a non QB anyway.

You really think KOM is trying to go cheap? He’s said publically JJ deserves a contract in line with the special player he is. But JJ wants +++.

Agreed. I'm sure we've offered the largest contract ever for a WR and maybe even for a non QB. That should be good enough if he gives a rat's ass about his teammates.

You have no idea what has actually been offered or how the offer has been structured or even if their has been an official offer. It's all speculation at this point. It's reasonable to assume it will be the biggest offer made to a wr since JJ is the best wr in the game. It's also reasonable for JJ to hold out for the biggest deal he can possibly get, since he never have this kind of leverage again.


Don't let facts get in the way of speculation and indignation!

JJ was probably criminally underpaid on this rookie contract compared to his production.
JJ will probably be criminally overpaid on his next contract (Vikes or other team).
That's the system.

I don't get the hand wringing.
Vikes have leverage and cap room and things will likely turn out fine one way or the other.

(BTW, Not a lot of complaining about teams underpaying rookies on rookie contracts who are elite... I get it... that is the view of the fan...)

< Message edited by beo -- 5/23/2024 2:48:04 PM >
Post #: 893
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/23/2024 2:47:42 PM   
Ricky J


Posts: 18357
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Ego over team. (Player) $ over fans. (League and Owners)

Unsustainable.


So the NFL is currently running an unsustainable model?

That would surprise a lot of people...


Like the sun it’ll eventually burn out. #boldprediction

Netflix getting the rights to Christmas day games ....

I know I don't care even close to what I used to, but I'm sure I'm not high on their list of target audiences, either

< Message edited by Ricky J -- 5/23/2024 4:33:44 PM >
Post #: 894
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/23/2024 3:20:24 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 77938
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online
• Offensive coordinator Wes Phillips complimented rookie quarterback J.J. McCarthy’s absorption of the system. McCarthy, Phillips said, arrives at the TCO Performance Center each morning having studied the previous day’s installation and more. He also highlighted McCarthy’s arm talent.

“You see the juice that got when he lets go of the football,” Phillips said.

McCarthy lasered passes throughout Tuesday’s session. He drilled receiver Lucky Jackson on a dig route over the middle. He hummed a corner route to Jalen Nailor near the sideline. Once, he held his eyes downfield, couldn’t identify an open receiver, rolled to his right like he was in a scramble drill and hurled a ball downfield toward receiver Trent Sherfield.

Pitching coaches often use the term: “The ball explodes out of his hand.” The same cliche applies to McCarthy, whose ball spirals so tightly through the air you almost expect flames to flow from behind. He generates his velocity with efficient mechanics and a fluid motion. If anything, the Vikings will have to monitor the torque on his arm.

• Sam Darnold participated in workouts Tuesday for the first time since he signed with the Vikings. He played with the first-team offense, throwing most of the reps in seven-on-seven periods. His ball did not zip through the air the way McCarthy’s did, but Darnold placed the ball accurately. He layered one pass over a flat defender to Nailor, who leaped, spun in the air, snagged the ball and toe-tapped before falling out of bounds.

• About a half-hour before the NFL Draft’s first round, O’Connell informed Darnold of the team’s plans. It was all but obvious the Vikings were going to select a quarterback, but Minnesota wanted to keep Darnold in the loop. He accepted the news positively, even feeling like he could help mentor the potential draftee considering his own background.

Darnold first met McCarthy at Target Center for Game 4 of the Minnesota Timberwolves’ NBA playoff series against the Denver Nuggets.

“We got to chat a little bit there,” Darnold said, “and I was, like, ‘First of all, dude, congratulations on getting drafted. It’s a great experience, and I know it flies by.’ But he’s been great. And he continues to learn.”

McCarthy has asked him countless questions inside the quarterback room in recent days, and Darnold has responded willingly and openly. The more he can share, he feels, the better.

Darnold was asked if there are any elements to a quarterback’s introduction to the NFL that go under the radar in terms of importance. Darnold responded by mentioning a quarterback’s environment: the coaches, the skill players, the system and the vibes within the quarterback room.

“It totally depends on the situation, the organization and the guys in the locker room,” Darnold said. “It’s about what is surrounding that quarterback, especially as a high draft pick.”

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5510967/2024/05/22/vikings-otas-jj-mccarthy-sam-darnold/
Post #: 895
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/23/2024 3:33:26 PM   
Todd M

 

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Ow that’s a good piece.
Post #: 896
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/23/2024 4:06:33 PM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 33770
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: fmaltes

In terms of the guaranteed money, an issue for the Wilfs may be that they are cash poor and having to place the total guaranteed contract amount in escrow will be a big deal to them. This is something that separates the ability of richer owners to provide larger guaranteed contracts than the financially weaker owners like the Wilfs. Also, the Wilfs are real estate developers, so it is likely that they do not hold a lot of "liquid wealth".

The NFL has a salary floor and cap. The Wilfs have had no problem guaranteeing money up to the cap for years. Their financial wherewithal is fine. No pro sports organization vets its owners like the NFL.



_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."
Post #: 897
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/23/2024 4:13:52 PM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 33770
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

It’s not just a matter of getting the best deal he can he’s holding out for the best deal ever gotten. For a non QB anyway.

You really think KOM is trying to go cheap? He’s said publically JJ deserves a contract in line with the special player he is. But JJ wants +++.

Agreed. I'm sure we've offered the largest contract ever for a WR and maybe even for a non QB. That should be good enough if he gives a rat's ass about his teammates.

You have no idea what has actually been offered or how the offer has been structured or even if their has been an official offer. It's all speculation at this point. It's reasonable to assume it will be the biggest offer made to a wr since JJ is the best wr in the game. It's also reasonable for JJ to hold out for the biggest deal he can possibly get, since he never have this kind of leverage again.

I absolutely have an idea about all of that. I shared my idea. Of course it's speculation. IMO he shouldn't hold out for the absolute biggest deal he can get. Leave a little bit on the table. If a few players follow suit we can field a better team and to me that has more value than getting 2% more on his contract.

He's under no moral obligation to take less. He could blow out a knee the first day of camp and it all goes away. Any player would be foolish not to get the most guaranteed money he can. Any agent who doesn't try to get his client the biggest payout, does that client a disservice. If a contract like that doesn't work for the Vikings, then by all means move him.

Nope he's not. Poor guy if he blows out his knee day 1 of camp. How could he possibly manage on $100 million instead of 105 Million. Who has more to lose? The player or the Team. I would say the team by far. I'm just giving my opinion on what he should do. Don't hold out for every last penny. Agree to 140 million over 4 years with 100 million guaranteed instead of holding out for 144 million with 105 million guaranteed. Get the contract done now and get to camp instead of having your image tarnished as a gold digging diva over 2% more money. The better his image he will more than make up that $4million he left on the table. Get himself prepared for the best season possible which includes as much time practicing with your new QBs as possible. The better he plays he will more than make up that $4million he left on the table. If you feel he must have that extra 4 Million go ahead. I think he's making a mistake that will hamper his future happiness.

< Message edited by kgdabom -- 5/23/2024 4:28:03 PM >


_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."
Post #: 898
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/23/2024 4:18:02 PM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 33770
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

If JJ and I swapped minds I’d, in his place, insist on taking a big home team discount. $20 million tops. Then, if things went well, instead of getting pushed out as I got up there in age I’d play for near the league minimum.

The league needs more players like me.

I tell you though, JJ is gonna be hella disappointed at his turn of events.

JJ: I lost half my penis. My youth. My skill. My $.



_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."
Post #: 899
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/23/2024 4:24:44 PM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 33770
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Ego over team. (Player) $ over fans. (League and Owners)

Unsustainable.


I'm guessing the gap is 2% and he's ****ing around over that.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."
Post #: 900
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