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RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/3/2024 12:11:24 PM

Tom Sykes

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Joined: 7/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

McCarthy is going to be great. I’m convinced. He has all the right stuff. It’s just a matter of when. Week 1. Week 5. Week 63.

What concerns me is Kwesi’s ability to build around him for the future. His first draft crashed and burned. His second draft produced a decent player who still has to prove his knucklehead behavior won’t torpedo his career.

His third draft produced what we hope are two solid franchise building blocks but A) we don’t know how it will pan out yet and B) it put a lot of eggs in one basket and cost a lot of draft capital.

He still has a lot to prove.

I’ll be surprised if McCarthy is not at least decent. I wont be surprised if he’s good. The tools, the winning pedigree … the preparation screams football animal. He seems bright enough.

It will all come down to how he performs under pressure and in critical moments. Otherwise you’re just another Cousins.

Both GM and HC have alot to prove for sure. Mixed results so far. The training wheels flew off this offseason, they have a two year window to get somewhere quickly or get out.

As critical as I am of both, I’m pulling hard for both to get there.

Post #: 1226

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/3/2024 12:22:26 PM

Ricky J

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Joined: 7/19/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Between 10 and 12 wins.

Atta boy!

< Message edited by Ricky J -- 8/3/2024 12:23:32 PM >

Post #: 1227

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/3/2024 1:15:01 PM 1 votes

Jeff Jesser

Posts: 19461
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: offline

We won 7 games last year and turned the ball over like we were handing out halloween candy early on as we tried to get some momentum. Then we lost KC's, JJ went down and finally Hock. We had crap for RB's and installed a brand new defensive scheme.

I expect the bare minimum is again 7-8 and wouldn't be surprised if it's 10-11.

Post #: 1228

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/3/2024 1:16:58 PM

Jeff Jesser

Posts: 19461
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
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Say what you will about whoever starts. They have to be, at least, as good as Dobbs/Hall/Mullens.

Post #: 1229

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/3/2024 1:32:44 PM

stfrank

Posts: 11824
Joined: 7/22/2007
From: Twin Cities
Status: online

It's hard to believe our first preseason game is in one week already. I'm having a real hard time getting excited about the Vikings or the NFL in general. I hope once they start they give me something to get excited about.

Post #: 1230

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/3/2024 2:34:53 PM

Daniel Lee Young

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Status: offline

All I want to see in preseason is the ****ing starters play significant time on the field, to get into games that count mode..

Full quarter,

end of second start of third..

2 and 4 minute offenses to score quickly and manage the clock..

It’s time for KOC to show me he has a fn clue about quick crisp play calls and managing the play clock..

His war and peace play calls that require word salad in a noisy huddle, to be communicated to players, has to end.

< Message edited by Daniel Lee Young -- 8/3/2024 3:19:23 PM >

Post #: 1231

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/3/2024 3:33:22 PM

Tom Sykes

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Joined: 7/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

Say what you will about whoever starts. They have to be, at least, as good as Dobbs/Hall/Mullens.

Well there was Cousins for 8 games. And Dobbs against ATL.

I think the QB position is going to be a wild ride. Otherwise, hard to compare individual units between now and 2023, or 2022 for that matter. Both were outlier years in different ways.

Seems like the consensus in here is 5-10 wins. That works.

A small actual inkling won't sprout until game 4-5.

Post #: 1232

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/3/2024 3:38:11 PM

Ricky J

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Joined: 7/19/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

His war and peace play calls that require word salad in a noisy huddle, to be communicated to players, has to end.

Which teams do it differently?

Post #: 1233

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/3/2024 3:47:55 PM

Tom Sykes

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Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

All I want to see in preseason is the ****ing starters play significant time on the field, to get into games that count mode..

Full quarter,

end of second start of third..

2 and 4 minute offenses to score quickly and manage the clock..

It’s time for KOC to show me he has a fn clue about quick crisp play calls and managing the play clock..

His war and peace play calls that require word salad in a noisy huddle, to be communicated to players, has to end.

We'll probably protect Jefferson and Jones ... but absolutely, the QBs and starters in general need a heavy dose of reps before game 1.

If we start off discombobulated against the Giants ... yikes!

Post #: 1234

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/3/2024 3:50:14 PM

Ricky J

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Joined: 7/19/2007
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(While we're on the subject)

https://www.viqtorysports.com/play-call/#

NFL Play Call Explained (With Video)

Written By: Chris Haddad
Updated: March 6, 2024

Green Right X Shift to Viper Right 382 X Stick Lookie. This is a standard NFL play call that a quarterback has to remember every play. What does this NFL play call mean?

An NFL play call is often called in this order: play type, offensive line protection, scheme, and cadence. Each coach may have their system of verbiage, but NFL play calls will have these 4 details in the play.

What does an NFL play call sound like? Depending on the coach, calls can get quite complex. We’re going to dive into all the different types of systems and terminology from professional coaches

Post #: 1235

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/3/2024 4:41:37 PM

Daniel Lee Young

Posts: 14006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

His war and peace play calls that require word salad in a noisy huddle, to be communicated to players, has to end.

Which teams do it differently?

Teams that get a damn play called, checked off or not, with 10-
15 seconds on the play clock to the defense can’t Tee off on the clock run down..

It’s not asking too much..

Really?

< Message edited by Daniel Lee Young -- 8/3/2024 4:44:14 PM >

Post #: 1236

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/3/2024 8:02:54 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28600
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

His war and peace play calls that require word salad in a noisy huddle, to be communicated to players, has to end.

Which teams do it differently?

Seriously? You dismiss, on the grounds of other teams, the countless penalties and timeouts due to not getting the play called? Have you watched the games since KOC showed up?

Of course it appeared after your boy Cousins' injury there were less issues. So maybe there is hope. BUTWHATABOUT regarding other teams... what a cop out.

Post #: 1237

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/3/2024 10:51:35 PM

Ricky J

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Joined: 7/19/2007
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Oh my!

Post #: 1238

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/4/2024 8:27:35 AM

Daniel Lee Young

Posts: 14006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Oh my!

Green Right X Shift to Viper Right 382 X Stick Lookie. This is a standard NFL play call that a quarterback has to remember every play. What does this NFL play call mean?

That “ play-call” is 11 words..

11..

Even repeating it, once then twice at 1 second per word,… Try it.. that’s fn slow talking..

Then, giving the scattered players 10 seconds to hustle up and huddle, takes 32 seconds.. tops which is far too long, all things considered…

if a personnel change needs to happen?

That’s on The HC to get his players in and out, on and off the field..

While the players are huddling up, after the play is called dead, the HC, who is going to be calling the next play, should god damn KNOW, what personnel he needs on the field and have his substitution players within ear shot at the very least..

The milling around time, before the huddle is set, is when QB steps away and get his play call, and HE should also KNOW what personnel he needs for the play call.

He should be checking the “ count to ten” player group, before stepping into the huddle..

Let’s be generous, and call all the time before QB steps in, 11 seconds.
+ 22 second to call and repeat with emphasis, the play call, at slow speed…

3 second to trot to the line and the center grabs the football…

35 fn seconds?

That leaves ten seconds for check down, shift and what ever..

Not the 3-5 seconds, where checkdown Charlie immediately calls the audible to checkdown and frantically claps his hands and stomps his foot, screaming for the snap….giving the defense the edge at the snap…

It shouldn’t even take 35 seconds to get to the line..

That is unacceptable in my book.

They practice this shit 4 days a week..

No excuses but lack of professionalism

KOC needs a sense of urgency, and a commitment to aggressiveness.

< Message edited by Daniel Lee Young -- 8/4/2024 8:34:41 AM >

Post #: 1239

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/4/2024 8:48:31 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28600
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Oh my!

Ah, that soapbox stomping was more about two years of nearly having a heart attack wondering if they'd do something as simple as snap the ball within the allotted time.

Post #: 1240

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/4/2024 8:52:03 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28600
Status: offline

Walk-on Dobbs did absolutely fine with the pre-snap stuff so it was either Cousins or it was KOC giving him just the War portion of the War & Peace play call.

Still, KOC is lucky the NFL turns off the radio comm with 15 or whatever seconds left!

Post #: 1241

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/4/2024 10:33:01 AM

Ricky J

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2023 penalties:
DG: MN 11, GB CINN 10, DET NE BALT 8 TN 1
FS: NYJ 31 MN 18 Pit 10
OH: Dal 22 MN 12 Phil 6
OPI: Den 5 MN 2 NYG 0
OFF: Dal 16 MN 4 ATL 0
# of penalties: NYJ 124 MN 89 LV 75
Yds penalized: Dal 964 MN 670 Cinn 614

2022 penalties:
DG: MN 10 Buff 1
# of penalties: AZ 118 MN 88 ATL 68
Yds penalized: Den 970 MN 684 Atl 594

got me

Post #: 1242

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/4/2024 10:52:53 AM

Ricky J

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https://www.footballdb.com/stats/penalties.html?yr=2023

Post #: 1243

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/4/2024 11:12:01 AM

Karl Juhnke

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Joined: 7/28/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karl Juhnke

McCarthy is going to be great. I’m convinced. He has all the right stuff. It’s just a matter of when. Week 1. Week 5. Week 63.

What concerns me is Kwesi’s ability to build around him for the future. His first draft crashed and burned. His second draft produced a decent player who still has to prove his knucklehead behavior won’t torpedo his career.

His third draft produced what we hope are two solid franchise building blocks but A) we don’t know how it will pan out yet and B) it put a lot of eggs in one basket and cost a lot of draft capital.

He still has a lot to prove.

Ha, not a conreatdiction. What I meant was we don't know how it will pan out in the immediate future. He'll be good someday.

Post #: 1244

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/4/2024 11:17:56 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28600
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

2023 penalties:
DG: MN 11, GB CINN 10, DET NE BALT 8 TN 1
FS: NYJ 31 MN 18 Pit 10
OH: Dal 22 MN 12 Phil 6
OPI: Den 5 MN 2 NYG 0
OFF: Dal 16 MN 4 ATL 0
# of penalties: NYJ 124 MN 89 LV 75
Yds penalized: Dal 964 MN 670 Cinn 614

2022 penalties:
DG: MN 10 Buff 1
# of penalties: AZ 118 MN 88 ATL 68
Yds penalized: Den 970 MN 684 Atl 594

got me

I had no idea for the two years but it certainly seemed to be VERY problematic. So it's not surprising to see those results.

Don't know how many time-outs other teams burned to prevent getting a delay of game penalty, but it also 'seemed' like we burned a lot of them.

Post #: 1245

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/4/2024 12:10:06 PM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

2023 penalties:
DG: MN 11, GB CINN 10, DET NE BALT 8 TN 1
FS: NYJ 31 MN 18 Pit 10
OH: Dal 22 MN 12 Phil 6
OPI: Den 5 MN 2 NYG 0
OFF: Dal 16 MN 4 ATL 0
# of penalties: NYJ 124 MN 89 LV 75
Yds penalized: Dal 964 MN 670 Cinn 614

2022 penalties:
DG: MN 10 Buff 1
# of penalties: AZ 118 MN 88 ATL 68
Yds penalized: Den 970 MN 684 Atl 594

got me

I had no idea for the two years but it certainly seemed to be VERY problematic. So it's not surprising to see those results.

Don't know how many time-outs other teams burned to prevent getting a delay of game penalty, but it also 'seemed' like we burned a lot of them.

In terms of wasting 'operational' timeouts ...

[this is for 2022] "Andy Reid and Kyle Shanahan, two play-calling geniuses who have struggled with clock management in January, both landed in the middle of the pack this season, so maybe there’s some hope for them this postseason. Meanwhile, Zac Taylor (Bengals), Pete Carroll (Seahawks), and Kevin O’Connell (Vikings) have just been throwing timeouts around this season and may want to practice a little more restraint now that the stakes are higher."

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2023/1/12/23552113/nfl-timeouts-playoff-coaches-mike-mccarthy-pete-carroll-kevin-oconnell

We weren't good in 2022 with Cousins. It wouldn't surprise me if we were slightly better in 2023 with multiple non-starter QBs lining things up.

Regardless, we are neither crisp nor clean. Judging it by penalties is like ranking offenses by yardage. Only barely helpful.

I see teams like SF and Mia running all this pre-motion crap, trying to hide what they're doing and trying to get a read on the defense ...

while our horse is bucking and kicking trying to get lined up in the gate.

KOC is such a good communicator, you would think he'd improve from year to year. Especially after leaving LA (McVeigh is one of the all-time filthiest abusers of operational TOs in the history of mankind).

We'll see ... its a new era. With some modern updated circuity in our new QBs.

Post #: 1246

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/4/2024 12:36:43 PM

Ricky J

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Joined: 7/19/2007
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Eight teams with fewer yards penalized than the Vikings in 2022.

Three teams with fewer yards penalized than the Vikings last year.

Not bad. Still things to be fixed, but not bad.

Post #: 1247

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/4/2024 1:00:55 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28600
Status: offline

Meanwhile, Zac Taylor (Bengals), Pete Carroll (Seahawks), and Kevin O’Connell (Vikings) have just been throwing timeouts around this season and may want to practice a little more restraint now that the stakes are higher." ....... KOC is such a good communicator, you would think he'd improve from year to year. Especially after leaving LA (McVeigh is one of the all-time filthiest abusers of operational TOs in the history of mankind).

Zac Taylor and KOC are from the McVay coaching tree.

Post #: 1248

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/4/2024 1:42:41 PM

Tom Sykes

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Joined: 7/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Meanwhile, Zac Taylor (Bengals), Pete Carroll (Seahawks), and Kevin O’Connell (Vikings) have just been throwing timeouts around this season and may want to practice a little more restraint now that the stakes are higher." ....... KOC is such a good communicator, you would think he'd improve from year to year. Especially after leaving LA (McVeigh is one of the all-time filthiest abusers of operational TOs in the history of mankind).

Zac Taylor and KOC are from the McVay coaching tree.

Right. McVay not McVeigh.

You would have to believe during the self-evaluation period after first two seasons, Kevin would have 3,000 graphs and charts showing [him] near the bottom in pre-snap operational penalties. With different ways to address it.

Using a thesaurus playcard with Kirk Coddywomple didn't do it.

(EDIT: Coddywomple - travelling in a serious manner to a vague destination)

< Message edited by Tom Sykes -- 8/4/2024 1:48:47 PM >

Post #: 1249

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/4/2024 4:41:21 PM

Tom Sykes

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Joined: 7/27/2007
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Two notes from the Strib that seem to collide with each other:

Ben Goessling
@BenGoessling
19h
The #Vikings have opened training camp with a harder set of practices than in Kevin O’Connell’s first two years, as they try to build a team with a little more physicality than they’ve previously had ...

(Bravo. Of course, if you don't show up with some toughness to begin with, even a barbed wire bat named Lucille isn't going to help a lot.)

Ben Goessling
@BenGoessling
1h
Sounds like Jerry Tillery, who was carted off the field yesterday at #Vikings camp, will be fine. Source said he just got cleated in practice yesterday.

(Uhh, if it was me, I wouldn't be telling people he got stepped on yesterday then carted off. I'd say shattered a tibia but has decided to play through it.)

Post #: 1250