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RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/25/2025 8:11:32 AM

Brad H

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

I think the real question is, is JJ McCarthy really hurt? Could he play this weekend?

Anybody think Baker Mayfield would play with McCarthy's injury? Or Pat Mahomes? Justin Herbert? Those guys routinely play injured.

He is 22...why is it important? Mahomes didn't play his first year....

This is his second year. Ooops! Did you forget that nugget?

< Message edited by Brad H -- 9/25/2025 8:17:08 AM >

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/25/2025 8:48:18 AM

Chris Olson

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Look, it is obvious the Vikings will not make the call to move on from JJ at this time. They have their hopes riding on him as the cheap rookie that will allow them to build a team around him, etc

Outside of a a gritty quarter out of 8, the kid has not looked ready. At all.

If Wentz plays well and goes on a run, you probably have to let JJ sit longer, and the injury really feels like a convenient excuse to give him some more time.

If he has to sit the rest of the year and resume next year, it may be the right move as evidenced by Green Bay's time with both Rodgers and Love

The pissing match here about this situation is just weird to me.

The fact is JJ is relatively cheap...we can afford to let him ride the pine for now, and go with the hot hand if Wentz has one...but we haven't seen enough from him either to make that decision

I hope JJ can truly become the guy, but from the limited amount we have seen, I'm not holding my breath

Post #: 377

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/25/2025 9:32:46 AM

Brad H

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris Olson

Look, it is obvious the Vikings will not make the call to move on from JJ at this time. They have their hopes riding on him as the cheap rookie that will allow them to build a team around him, etc

Outside of a a gritty quarter out of 8, the kid has not looked ready. At all.

If Wentz plays well and goes on a run, you probably have to let JJ sit longer, and the injury really feels like a convenient excuse to give him some more time.

If he has to sit the rest of the year and resume next year, it may be the right move as evidenced by Green Bay's time with both Rodgers and Love

The pissing match here about this situation is just weird to me.

The fact is JJ is relatively cheap...we can afford to let him ride the pine for now, and go with the hot hand if Wentz has one...but we haven't seen enough from him either to make that decision

I hope JJ can truly become the guy, but from the limited amount we have seen, I'm not holding my breath

That's a good and honest take.

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Post #: 378

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/25/2025 11:09:17 AM

Jeff Jesser

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I honestly don't think anyone is saying JJM is the answer right now. Just that we don't know if he isn't, long term. What we need to do is have some patience and let him take his lumps. That said, if Wentz plays as well, or better, over the next couple of games, you could lose the vets if you just throw the kid back in there. I trust KOC will make the right decisions.

Post #: 379

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/25/2025 11:48:44 AM

Phil Riewer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

I think the real question is, is JJ McCarthy really hurt? Could he play this weekend?

Anybody think Baker Mayfield would play with McCarthy's injury? Or Pat Mahomes? Justin Herbert? Those guys routinely play injured.

He is 22...why is it important? Mahomes didn't play his first year....

This is his second year. Ooops! Did you forget that nugget?

What game of the 2nd year....take any example you want...Brady or Rodgers. What is your hurry?
What happened to Darnold at that age?

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Post #: 380

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/25/2025 11:49:18 AM

Chris Olson

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I'm not sure we can trust KOC in this, but the convenient meniscus repair over a much simpler and easier recovery of a meniscectomy may lead us to believe he is prepared to let JJ sit longer...

The auto sit for 4 weeks due to the ankle sprain may also suggest this...

"2-4 weeks" allows for the leeway of getting him back in if Wentz fails, but gives time for full healing if he sits the full 4

I really see KOC not committing and waiting for the various scenarios to shake out...

all with the conservative lean toward giving JJ extra time, because I think KOC doesn't really believe he is ready

Post #: 381

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/25/2025 11:49:44 AM

Phil Riewer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris Olson

Look, it is obvious the Vikings will not make the call to move on from JJ at this time. They have their hopes riding on him as the cheap rookie that will allow them to build a team around him, etc

Outside of a a gritty quarter out of 8, the kid has not looked ready. At all.

If Wentz plays well and goes on a run, you probably have to let JJ sit longer, and the injury really feels like a convenient excuse to give him some more time.

If he has to sit the rest of the year and resume next year, it may be the right move as evidenced by Green Bay's time with both Rodgers and Love

The pissing match here about this situation is just weird to me.

The fact is JJ is relatively cheap...we can afford to let him ride the pine for now, and go with the hot hand if Wentz has one...but we haven't seen enough from him either to make that decision

I hope JJ can truly become the guy, but from the limited amount we have seen, I'm not holding my breath

How much is the total QB room versus what we would have had to pay Darnold? That is still what they should look at.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 9/25/2025 1:31:34 PM >

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Post #: 382

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/25/2025 12:07:37 PM

Chris Olson

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I agree, that is the big front office decision...

Not saying paying Darnold was the right move, maybe it would have been...

feels a little like having a Kirk level QB in there

Kind of had to see if JJ is legit...he is cheap enough to let him sit, though

I just don't want to see us force it with him

I'd rather give up on him sooner than hold onto hope too long

I also don't want to see us spend the next 20 years like we spent the last 20 at QB

Post #: 383

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/25/2025 12:15:05 PM

Bill Johanesen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris Olson

I agree, that is the big front office decision...

Not saying paying Darnold was the right move, maybe it would have been...

feels a little like having a Kirk level QB in there

Kind of had to see if JJ is legit...he is cheap enough to let him sit, though

I just don't want to see us force it with him

I'd rather give up on him sooner than hold onto hope too long

I also don't want to see us spend the next 20 years like we spent the last 20 at QB

Well, we'll hopefully learn more as time goes on and draw conclusions as opposed to making innuendos after TWO games.

Post #: 384

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/25/2025 10:50:21 PM

marty

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I am with Brad about 90% of the time, but I am not with him on this one.

For now we see what Wentz can do with the fully stocked team, but I am still hoping JJ puts it together with the fully stocked team.

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Post #: 385

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/26/2025 8:06:12 AM

Brad H

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Sam Darnold 3-1....an eyelash from 4-0

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Post #: 386

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/26/2025 8:23:46 AM

TJSweens

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So he can shit the bed in the playoffs for the Seahawks instead of the Vikings.

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Post #: 387

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/26/2025 8:40:06 AM

Brad H

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

So he can shit the bed in the playoffs for the Seahawks instead of the Vikings.

If he started every game, JJ McCarthy would be nowhere near the playoffs.

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Post #: 388

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/26/2025 9:57:10 AM 2 votes

Lars

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Let's talk some facts:

14-3 is not a franchise record. That would be 15-1. 1998. I remember that one.

Darnold has had a pretty shitty career. He is not a Viking any longer. And his last few games here, when it all mattered, he totally shit the bed. I'm not interested in being "regular season champs". I want Super Bowl trophies. And neither Cousins or Darnold are going to get us one. Let's move on. Unless, of course, you like regular season wins and hollow moral victory type stuff. I don't.

McCarthy played very poorly in the ATL game, and large parts of the CHI game. Everyone knows that. But we all also know that the performance of his team (and playcalling) in those games was not great either. I'm not making excuses, but it's not like he ruined a masterful game plan or performance by everyone else in the ATL game.

Maybe we give him a little chance to see if he can be a good QB in the NFL and not cast him aside after a couple of games? See if we have a QBOTF? I am biased and think JJM will be a good QB. If he isn't, then cut him loose and move on! But maybe we should try him out for a while first....

Aikman went like 1-15 his rookie year. HOF with some rings....

Or we could roll out more retreads like Darnold, Cousins, Keenum, Dobbs, Jones, et al and be regular season champs and lose in the wild card round. No thanks for me. I've seen that show way too many times already.

I know what I'm rooting for. A long-term vision for the franchise. And QB is critical. Let's see what we have.

Pining over these former QBs who didn't get us shit other than some stats and regular season wins seems pointless to me, but YMMV. I'd rather look to the future and see what we have with this kid. If he sucks, move on. But maybe trying something new like that would be better than repeating the same shitty process we have been using for years. And a newsflash: neither Darnold or Cousins are coming back here. So who cares?! Keenum had a great season . Should we get all lathered up about him, too? SMH.

And any narrative about being "right" or "wrong" about JJM and comparing him to these other former QBs is silly. Who cares if you think you are right or wrong? The proof is in the pudding. All of the previous QB we are talking about have left our trophy case empty. Period.

JJM has no track record yet. Those other guys have careers full of bad losses at critical times with ZERO signature wins. JJM doesn't even have enough to give him an incomplete grade. The other guys have enough of a track record to give them an "F" in leading a team to its ultimate goal: a championship.

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Post #: 389

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/26/2025 10:27:07 AM

TJSweens

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

So he can shit the bed in the playoffs for the Seahawks instead of the Vikings.

If he started every game, JJ McCarthy would be nowhere near the playoffs.

And we could move on because like Darnold and like Cousins before him, McCarthy wouldn't be the answer.

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/26/2025 11:20:30 AM

Jeff Jesser

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I also think it would be prudent to see what JJM looks like with Darrisaw protecting him and a healthy Ryan Kelly before writing him off.

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/26/2025 11:25:34 AM

TJSweens

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

I also think it would be prudent to see what JJM looks like with Darrisaw protecting him and a healthy Ryan Kelly before writing him off.

Yep. He's 22 years old and has 2 games under his belt. Two were without Darrisaw and Addison. One was without Kelly. Romo pointed out that due to Skule's issues, Hockenson was not a consistent option since he held in for extra blocking.

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/26/2025 11:46:23 AM

Brad H

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

I also think it would be prudent to see what JJM looks like with Darrisaw protecting him and a healthy Ryan Kelly before writing him off.

Yep. He's 22 years old and has 2 games under his belt. Two were without Darrisaw and Addison. One was without Kelly. Romo pointed out that due to Skule's issues, Hockenson was not a consistent option since he held in for extra blocking.

Did this describe McCarthy's situation this season, or Darnold's situation last year? Not a lot of difference. Darnold didn't have Darrisaw, Kelly, Fries or Skule either. And for what it's worth, he was 3-0 against the Bears and Falcons.

Thanks for helping out my argument.

< Message edited by Brad H -- 9/26/2025 11:48:30 AM >

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/26/2025 11:51:26 AM

TJSweens

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

I also think it would be prudent to see what JJM looks like with Darrisaw protecting him and a healthy Ryan Kelly before writing him off.

Yep. He's 22 years old and has 2 games under his belt. Two were without Darrisaw and Addison. One was without Kelly. Romo pointed out that due to Skule's issues, Hockenson was not a consistent option since he held in for extra blocking.

Did this describe McCarthy's situation this season, or Darnold's situation last year? Not a lot of difference. Darnold didn't have Darrisaw, Kelly, Fries or Skule either.

Thanks for helping out my argument.

It's hilarious that you think that. Darnold dealt with that just until the games had more meaning. Then his spleen jumped into his throat and he ran around like a chicken with its head cut off because he was too panicked to see open receivers.

Not to mention Darnold was a 27 year old, 7 year veteran with 56 starts under his belt. McCarthy is a 22 year old rookie with two starts.

< Message edited by TJSweens -- 9/26/2025 11:54:53 AM >

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/26/2025 11:54:36 AM

Brad H

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

I also think it would be prudent to see what JJM looks like with Darrisaw protecting him and a healthy Ryan Kelly before writing him off.

Yep. He's 22 years old and has 2 games under his belt. Two were without Darrisaw and Addison. One was without Kelly. Romo pointed out that due to Skule's issues, Hockenson was not a consistent option since he held in for extra blocking.

Did this describe McCarthy's situation this season, or Darnold's situation last year? Not a lot of difference. Darnold didn't have Darrisaw, Kelly, Fries or Skule either.

Thanks for helping out my argument.

It's hilarious that you think that. Darnold dealt with that just until the games had more meaning. Then his spleen jumped into his throat and he ran around like a chicken with its head cut off because he was too panicked to see open receivers.

14-3

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/26/2025 11:58:27 AM

TJSweens

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

I also think it would be prudent to see what JJM looks like with Darrisaw protecting him and a healthy Ryan Kelly before writing him off.

Yep. He's 22 years old and has 2 games under his belt. Two were without Darrisaw and Addison. One was without Kelly. Romo pointed out that due to Skule's issues, Hockenson was not a consistent option since he held in for extra blocking.

Did this describe McCarthy's situation this season, or Darnold's situation last year? Not a lot of difference. Darnold didn't have Darrisaw, Kelly, Fries or Skule either.

Thanks for helping out my argument.

It's hilarious that you think that. Darnold dealt with that just until the games had more meaning. Then his spleen jumped into his throat and he ran around like a chicken with its head cut off because he was too panicked to see open receivers.

14-3

13-4 , division title with a worse team and a better playoff performance. You said that guy was one of the 10 worst QB in football and we couldn't get rid of him soon enough.

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Post #: 396

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/26/2025 12:21:16 PM

Brad H

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

I also think it would be prudent to see what JJM looks like with Darrisaw protecting him and a healthy Ryan Kelly before writing him off.

Yep. He's 22 years old and has 2 games under his belt. Two were without Darrisaw and Addison. One was without Kelly. Romo pointed out that due to Skule's issues, Hockenson was not a consistent option since he held in for extra blocking.

Did this describe McCarthy's situation this season, or Darnold's situation last year? Not a lot of difference. Darnold didn't have Darrisaw, Kelly, Fries or Skule either.

Thanks for helping out my argument.

It's hilarious that you think that. Darnold dealt with that just until the games had more meaning. Then his spleen jumped into his throat and he ran around like a chicken with its head cut off because he was too panicked to see open receivers.

14-3

13-4 , division title with a worse team and a better playoff performance. You said that guy was one of the 10 worst QB in football and we couldn't get rid of him soon enough.

Where is he now? I was right.

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Post #: 397

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/26/2025 12:26:31 PM

Tom Sykes

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

I also think it would be prudent to see what JJM looks like with Darrisaw protecting him and a healthy Ryan Kelly before writing him off.

Yep. He's 22 years old and has 2 games under his belt. Two were without Darrisaw and Addison. One was without Kelly. Romo pointed out that due to Skule's issues, Hockenson was not a consistent option since he held in for extra blocking.

I don't know.

Honestly, for my money, the injuries aren't enough to excuse the bobbles and mis-handling the ball, the decision-making and performance against the Falcons/most of the Bears game.

The dude definitely needs more seasoning, has a loooong way to go, before expecting a solid result as a starter.

There's no way to judge that now, no QB in his first season as a starter should be crossed off after 3 or 4 or 5 games.

Or be ridiculously compared to the 7 yr starter that choked in the playoffs, from the year before. That's just a bruised ego speaking.

So ... we've decided to take our lumps at the position, with the combination of a highly drafted possible franchise type + journeyman vet backup ... over ... a more expensive, short term veteran that can only get you so far, and will weigh you down from being able to improve the overall roster.

Its a big gamble. Winning or losing the gamble depends on how long it takes to determine if JJ is the guy or not. Hopefully that will be a fraction of the Ponder timeline.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Wentz and JJ being traded out with each other over several games, due to dings and poor play. Until someone clearly gets their feet under them. We are betting on that happening with JJ ... this season.

Darnold or Cousins or Wentz have nothing to do with the franchise plan. Nor should they.

That is, unless JJ completely stalls over the course of the season ... and Wentz ascends to where Sam and Kirk could not, being not atrocious in the playoffs.

Post #: 398

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/26/2025 12:29:59 PM

Bill Johanesen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

I also think it would be prudent to see what JJM looks like with Darrisaw protecting him and a healthy Ryan Kelly before writing him off.

Darrisaw's return was a big factor... partly because Skule was soooo bad.

Post #: 399

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/26/2025 12:32:18 PM

TJSweens

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H
Where is he now? I was right.

Which means you're wrong now. You're using the same criteria to achieve contradictory points.

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