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RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/28/2025 8:34:10 PM

Jeff Jesser

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From: Southern Cal
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Is the current OL coach KOC's Richard Solomon?

Good parallel

It is but I think it's starting to highlight a bigger issue with the team overall. I say this as someone who praised KAM's offseason. I thought he nailed it but his lack of drafting is starting to (or already has) kill us. His MO, to fix the misses, is to bring in first round reclamation projects or injured guys that could stay healthy. They aren't and it's killing both lines.

KOC's playcalling is not on the same page as our OLine play. Look at the Steelers. We crushed them on the first series and they went to "everything quick hitting". We stayed in 5-7 drop long developing plays with a shitty OLine. This is now a trend.

Post #: 426

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/28/2025 8:36:33 PM

Jeff Jesser

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From: Southern Cal
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I'll put it this way and I've been thinking this since the end of last year. I love KOC as a HC but he needs to go as a default OC. Hand over control dude. And, i'm not saying Wes Phillips is the guy but I want the offense in someone else's control at this point.

Post #: 427

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/28/2025 9:52:56 PM

Mark Anderson

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

I'll put it this way and I've been thinking this since the end of last year. I love KOC as a HC but he needs to go as a default OC. Hand over control dude. And, i'm not saying Wes Phillips is the guy but I want the offense in someone else's control at this point.

Yep. We've had 6 or 7 QBs here since KOC started. Some young, some vets. All have had trouble with the play clock. KOC is the common denominator.

Also, people are saying play the young guys and give up. Save the draft picks. I think we might need to trade some picks for some OLine help. Because JJM won't develop if he is running for his life every other play.

Post #: 428

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 9/28/2025 10:35:37 PM

Daniel Lee Young

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I have been watching various games all day..

KIC is his own worst enemy..
He has no quick throw plays, in the standard playbook..

Quick outs, quick slants, anything thrown under 2 seconds..

His play calls are so complex that even veteran QB’s have a difficult time getting the word salad, spit out in the huddle making the correct read and checks at the line..

It ridiculous to have less tan 7 second on the play clock, when you are trotting up to the line..

Pare that shit down..

All day long teams have gone on quick counts, trapping defenses in bad matchups..

I’m losing faith in KOC as anything but a QB coach.

< Message edited by Daniel Lee Young -- 9/28/2025 10:37:04 PM >

Post #: 429

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 9/29/2025 2:48:29 AM

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9779
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

I have been watching various games all day..

KIC is his own worst enemy..
He has no quick throw plays, in the standard playbook..

Quick outs, quick slants, anything thrown under 2 seconds..

His play calls are so complex that even veteran QB’s have a difficult time getting the word salad, spit out in the huddle making the correct read and checks at the line..

It ridiculous to have less tan 7 second on the play clock, when you are trotting up to the line..

Pare that shit down..

All day long teams have gone on quick counts, trapping defenses in bad matchups..

I’m losing faith in KOC as anything but a QB coach.

o'connell is the worst playcaller/playdesigner in the league...apart from everything you listed, he telegraphs pass/run - the defense knows - on running plays they flood the box, and passing plays they blitz - the only chance we have is if o'connell hands over playcalling to someone like mccown....

mccarthy will never thrive in his system....

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Post #: 430

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/29/2025 8:12:14 AM

Bill Johanesen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

I'll put it this way and I've been thinking this since the end of last year. I love KOC as a HC but he needs to go as a default OC. Hand over control dude. And, i'm not saying Wes Phillips is the guy but I want the offense in someone else's control at this point.

And to that, again, what would KOCs purpose be then? The mastermind of the game and play clocks? The guy who wisely uses timeouts? Another cog to add to the group of QB coaches?

He's best being at the podium relating heart rendering kum by yah tales to a weak ass media who parrots him rather than challenges him.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 9/29/2025 8:16:28 AM >

Post #: 431

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 9/29/2025 10:12:40 AM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 30003
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

I have been watching various games all day..

KIC is his own worst enemy..
He has no quick throw plays, in the standard playbook..

Quick outs, quick slants, anything thrown under 2 seconds..

His play calls are so complex that even veteran QB’s have a difficult time getting the word salad, spit out in the huddle making the correct read and checks at the line..

It ridiculous to have less tan 7 second on the play clock, when you are trotting up to the line..

Pare that shit down..

All day long teams have gone on quick counts, trapping defenses in bad matchups..

I’m losing faith in KOC as anything but a QB coach.

What pisses me off is they don't get after it until they have to.
First possession. Script 1st downs and move the damn ball.

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Post #: 432

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 9/29/2025 12:48:35 PM

marty

Posts: 13416
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: online

GREAT points there Dan, I was watching (and listening to) many different games yesterday, and wondered about a lot of similar things.

I was impressed by the play calling of both Dallas and GB last night, in the 40-40. Although GB was going against a softer defense, Dallas defense was playing hard with the crowd behind them, and are better against the run with the addition of Kenny Clark.

Both teams had great play calls, lots of quick hitters and deception, and both teams were effective with screen passes, and countering blitzes.

With Balt/KC, there was one play by Mahomes that was impressive with how quickly he got it to a WR slanting across the middle. You mix those types of things in, and your offense gets hard to defend.

Darnold bailed the Vikings out a few times last season by going off script, I have no confidence with Wentz going off script, but McCarthy might do well with it, he just needs to get the on script stuff down first.

I had a feeling Wentz's success was sorta delusional as it was against a weak Cincy defense where the Vikings defense took advantage of crowd noise and a 2nd string QB playing for Cincy.

< Message edited by marty -- 9/29/2025 12:50:03 PM >

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Post #: 433

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 9/29/2025 12:51:11 PM

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9779
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

I have been watching various games all day..

KIC is his own worst enemy..
He has no quick throw plays, in the standard playbook..

Quick outs, quick slants, anything thrown under 2 seconds..

His play calls are so complex that even veteran QB’s have a difficult time getting the word salad, spit out in the huddle making the correct read and checks at the line..

It ridiculous to have less tan 7 second on the play clock, when you are trotting up to the line..

Pare that shit down..

All day long teams have gone on quick counts, trapping defenses in bad matchups..

I’m losing faith in KOC as anything but a QB coach.

What pisses me off is they don't get after it until they have to.
First possession. Script 1st downs and move the damn ball.

@danielpatterson7401
The Vikings have not scored a touchdown through the first three quarters in five of their past six games. This is a trend regardless of who the QB is.

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.

Post #: 434

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 9/29/2025 4:26:13 PM

Jeff Jesser

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Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: offline

They've also given up 27 sacks in the past 5 games. 3 different QB's but just one system.

Post #: 435

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 9/29/2025 5:31:45 PM

Brad H

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14-3

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Post #: 436

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 9/29/2025 5:45:01 PM

David Levine

Posts: 79480
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

14-3

0-2

Post #: 437

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 9/29/2025 7:37:07 PM

marty

Posts: 13416
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: online

Keeping Darnold would have provided stability, he would have known the system well, sometimes knew when to do things outside of the system, would have given McCarthy a chance to sit and learn more.

I would have been in favor of keeping Darnold, if his last 2 games as a Viking didn't happen.

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Post #: 438

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 9/29/2025 9:10:06 PM

Mark Anderson

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Joined: 9/1/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Keeping Darnold would have provided stability, he would have known the system well, sometimes knew when to do things outside of the system, would have given McCarthy a chance to sit and learn more.

I would have been in favor of keeping Darnold, if his last 2 games as a Viking didn't happen.

Could he play Center or LG or RT?

Post #: 439

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 9/29/2025 9:11:37 PM

Mark Anderson

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Joined: 9/1/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

14-3

0-2

Kirk Cousins Lite

Post #: 440

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 9/30/2025 7:26:01 AM

Brad H

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Keeping Darnold would have provided stability, he would have known the system well, sometimes knew when to do things outside of the system, would have given McCarthy a chance to sit and learn more.

I would have been in favor of keeping Darnold, if his last 2 games as a Viking didn't happen.

Could he play Center or LG or RT?

No, and neither could the guys that were in front of him. Lets not forget, he didn't even have Darrisaw for the lions share of the season. And he still went 14-3.

You guys make it sound like this offensive line problem just crept up on us in the past three weeks. We haven't even faced anybody good yet. Wait until we meet up with a good defense.

The Lions figured out and exploited our weakness in the final game of the regular season last year. The Rams copied the game plan. The NFL is a copycat league.

The last two games of 2024 were not a Sam Darnold problem. They were a Vikings problem.

And, BTW, if I have to hear one more time that O'Connell is some sort of "Quarterback Whisperer" I'm gonna throw up.

< Message edited by Brad H -- 9/30/2025 7:33:35 AM >

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RE: General Vikes Talkk - 9/30/2025 9:01:07 AM

Lars

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From: Midi-chlorians
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Keeping Darnold would have provided stability, he would have known the system well, sometimes knew when to do things outside of the system, would have given McCarthy a chance to sit and learn more.

I would have been in favor of keeping Darnold, if his last 2 games as a Viking didn't happen.

Could he play Center or LG or RT?

No, and neither could the guys that were in front of him. Lets not forget, he didn't even have Darrisaw for the lions share of the season. And he still went 14-3.

You guys make it sound like this offensive line problem just crept up on us in the past three weeks. We haven't even faced anybody good yet. Wait until we meet up with a good defense.

The Lions figured out and exploited our weakness in the final game of the regular season last year. The Rams copied the game plan. The NFL is a copycat league.

The last two games of 2024 were not a Sam Darnold problem. They were a Vikings problem.

And, BTW, if I have to hear one more time that O'Connell is some sort of "Quarterback Whisperer" I'm gonna throw up.

See bolded above. Correct. QB is not the problem. So the pining for Darnold is kinda silly. When DCs cracked the code on our offense late last year, it has been a feeding frenzy. So "14-3" doesn't mean shit.

2-4 over our last 6 is what matters. THAT needs to be fixed.

And for the record, Darnold is gone. Continuing to long for the "good old days" is kinda pointless.

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RE: General Vikes Talkk - 9/30/2025 9:06:49 AM

Brad H

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Sam Darnold is 3-1 this season..........an eyelash from 4-0. The guy is a good NFL quarterback. Depending on what metric you look at, he's between the 6-10 rated QB in the league right now. Last season he was #6 among starters.

Facts are facts.

And with Seattle, Jaxon Smith-Njigba is the only household name outside of a broken down Cooper Kupp. AJ Barner is the TE and a 5th round pick is the third wide receiver.

< Message edited by Brad H -- 9/30/2025 9:13:12 AM >

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RE: General Vikes Talkk - 9/30/2025 9:13:36 AM

Lars

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Who cares about Darnold???? If he was on this team, it is very unlikely we are any better than 2-2.

It is a red herring.

And if you like him so much, then be a SEA fan.

And for the record, if Marvin Harrison remembered how to play WR, AZ would have beaten them and they'd be 2-2 as well. But again, who cares?!

< Message edited by Lars -- 9/30/2025 9:20:13 AM >

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RE: General Vikes Talkk - 9/30/2025 9:18:04 AM

Brad H

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Browns, Eagles, Chargers and Lions. Good luck with those four defenses the next four weeks. At some point they're going to have to put the young kid back in the lineup with what is now a broken down offensive line.

We'll see how much of a "Quarterback Whisperer" that O'Connell is. My hunch is, we'll have the "whisperer" part down pretty well four weeks from now (in that we will be very quiet on offense).

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Defense starts at the corners!

Post #: 445

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 9/30/2025 9:19:40 AM

Lars

Posts: 11462
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

Browns, Eagles, Chargers and Lions. Good luck with those four defenses the next four weeks. At some point they're going to have to put the young kid back in the lineup with what is now a broken down offensive line.

We'll see how much of a "Quarterback Whisperer" that O'Connell is. My hunch is, we'll have the "whisperer" part down pretty well four weeks from now, in that we will be very quiet on offense.

Agreed. I don't think it matters who the QB is for a while. The OL and playcalling are huge liabilities right now.

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RE: General Vikes Talkk - 9/30/2025 9:23:48 AM

Brad H

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Cleveland might be the only franchise more clueless when it comes to quarterbacks, which gives us a half a shot at winning this week. We had a guy win 14 games and apparently it wasn't good enough.

< Message edited by Brad H -- 9/30/2025 9:25:19 AM >

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RE: General Vikes Talkk - 9/30/2025 9:25:48 AM

Richard Neussendorfer

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From: Alamogordo, NM
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

Browns, Eagles, Chargers and Lions. Good luck with those four defenses the next four weeks. At some point they're going to have to put the young kid back in the lineup with what is now a broken down offensive line.

We'll see how much of a "Quarterback Whisperer" that O'Connell is. My hunch is, we'll have the "whisperer" part down pretty well four weeks from now (in that we will be very quiet on offense).

KOC is no quarterback whisperer. In the big moments all his qbs melt down. Dobbs got worse the more he played in his system. Now he's scared to play the young guy that barely got any action in college or the pros. I'd like to see McCarthy get reps but it doesn't seem like it's going to happen anytime soon. He's going to have to learn the position some time but I doubt KOC is the right guy to teach him anyways.

Post #: 448

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 9/30/2025 9:27:32 AM

Brad H

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Joined: 8/16/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

Browns, Eagles, Chargers and Lions. Good luck with those four defenses the next four weeks. At some point they're going to have to put the young kid back in the lineup with what is now a broken down offensive line.

We'll see how much of a "Quarterback Whisperer" that O'Connell is. My hunch is, we'll have the "whisperer" part down pretty well four weeks from now (in that we will be very quiet on offense).

KOC is no quarterback whisperer. In the big moments all his qbs melt down. Dobbs got worse the more he played in his system. Now he's scared to play the young guy that barely got any action in college or the pros. I'd like to see McCarthy get reps but it doesn't seem like it's going to happen anytime soon. He's going to have to learn the position some time but I doubt KOC is the right guy to teach him anyways.

The Vikings made a big bet on McCarthy. At some point they are going to need to see him play. You can only hide behind an ankle sprain for so long. Unfortunately, O'Connell saw what everybody else saw.....a kid that isn't very good. IMO, that's why he is on the bench.

If McCarthy plays this week, pick up the Cleveland defense in your fantasy league.

< Message edited by Brad H -- 9/30/2025 9:30:02 AM >

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Post #: 449

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 9/30/2025 9:42:17 AM

Lars

Posts: 11462
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Midi-chlorians
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

Browns, Eagles, Chargers and Lions. Good luck with those four defenses the next four weeks. At some point they're going to have to put the young kid back in the lineup with what is now a broken down offensive line.

We'll see how much of a "Quarterback Whisperer" that O'Connell is. My hunch is, we'll have the "whisperer" part down pretty well four weeks from now (in that we will be very quiet on offense).

KOC is no quarterback whisperer. In the big moments all his qbs melt down. Dobbs got worse the more he played in his system. Now he's scared to play the young guy that barely got any action in college or the pros. I'd like to see McCarthy get reps but it doesn't seem like it's going to happen anytime soon. He's going to have to learn the position some time but I doubt KOC is the right guy to teach him anyways.

The Vikings made a big bet on McCarthy. At some point they are going to need to see him play. You can only hide behind an ankle sprain for so long. Unfortunately, O'Connell saw what everybody else saw.....a kid that isn't very good. IMO, that's why he is on the bench.

If McCarthy plays this week, pick up the Cleveland defense in your fantasy league.

Right. And Wentz was no good, and neither was Darnold when we got exposed late last year, just like you said.

You make pretty big assumptions/guesses/wishful thinking on McCarthy and what KOC thinks about him with no evidence. Maybe you are a bit biased here....

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Post #: 450