quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

The Vikings could have gotten a 1st down, negating the Bears using all their timeouts, and the Vikings go on to run the clock down to nothing, giving the Bears absolutely no time to counter with a score, after the Vikings score the go ahead touchdown.

Thanks for reinforcing my point.

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Thank you Bill, I have made very strong statements on this, and they stand on their own merit. I have only seen weak counter points here.

I will bite on the one counter point that could have something:

What are the Viking stats for Red Zone scoring with McCarthy at the helm in the 4th quarter ? And to be really precise, what are the Viking stats for Red Zone scoring against the Bears, in the 4th quarter, with McCarthy at the helm ?

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Here is the concept simplified for you Bill.

The Vikings run the ball on 1st and 2nd down (ONE, TWO), picking up 4 yards each time, going with your assumption that the Bears call a timeout after each one, while a lot of teams would just let the clock run.

Then the Vikings pick up the 1st down on another short 2 yard run, or a quick pass (THREE), and the Bears are forced to use their last timeout. Those 3 plays use up about 10 seconds, going with a low-ball amount of 3 seconds each. The Vikings run the ball from the 6 yard line to the 4 yard line on 1st down, the Bears have no timeouts left, and the Vikings let the clock run down to about 20 seconds before running the next play. The Vikings run a play that keeps the ball in bounds (FOUR), and the runner or WR is tackled at about the 3 yard line.

With the clock at between 10 and 15 seconds the Vikings pass for a TD, but don't get it (FIVE), brings the clock down to 10 seconds. The Vikings either score the TD with about 10 seconds left on the clock, or they get the TD on 4 down with 3 seconds left on the clock (SIX, apparently if needed). The Bears only get the ball on the kick off, never getting the chance to run a play after the kickoff.

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

In keeping with the theme, Sunday vs. Green Bay, the Vikings should run and pick up 5 yards on every offensive play of the game. Barring a couple of RB fumbles, we should win easily. Duh, why don't we do this every game?

Yes, absolutely, because every offensive play of every game, is exactly the same as having the ball with a 1st down at the 18 yard line with 50 seconds left on the clock

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

For the "drivers seat" scenario to really work and get KOC out of Marty's doghouse, rather than pass for the TD we would have had to:

- Run three plays whereby the clock keeps running (assume Chi uses their three timeouts).
- Get a 1st down with one of those plays, ideally on the third play.
- Call a run or complete a pass between the goal line and the 5 yard line to keep the clock running.
- Call our second timeout to stop the clock with say 15 seconds left.
- Either score or use our last timeout to stop the clock with say 10 seconds left.
- Score a TD.
- Just ensure the TD is not scored with more than about 10 seconds on the clock (8 seconds for the return play say 2 seconds for the FG attempt).

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Bottomline, your original assertion was incorrect and your latest totally modified scenario is IMO just not plausible, to put it mildly.

I presented 2 different scenarios, where the Vikings run the clock down, and score, both types of scenarios that happen all the time. I couldn't even bring myself to the scenario where the Vikings fail initially to score a TD, and get a game winning pass on 4th down from McCarthy with 2 seconds left on the clock, leaving the Bears no time on the clock. That never happens, teams never win a game with the last play of the game

I don't know why I even ceded the Bill idea that the Bears would be smart and call a timeout after the Vikings run the ball on 1st down (right after the Nailor catch), most teams don't call timeout when they are on defense. They have confidence (usually OVER confidence) in their defense to stop the opposition, and hope the other team's offense just bungles the situation.

Getting a 1st down at the 8, or not getting it, either way running the ball on the 1st down after the Nailor catch would have been the smartest thing to do, and had they done it, the Vikings probably would have gone on to win the game. Bill's feeble attempt at picking apart a simple phrase, does nothing to negate my conclusion.

And neither does taking the smart thing to do, which is to run the ball, on the play after the Nailor catch, and saying we should be absurd and do that every offensive play of every game. Hey, we did the wrong thing time wise, and scored a TD by passing the ball the play after the Nailor catch, but it did result in a TD, therefore we should always pass the ball on every down the rest of the season.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

At least they are off the hypothetical running back trade.

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

15 or 18, very little difference. At 1st I referred to at as about the 18 yard line, the difference is negligible.

Bill, I am not sure why you would re-post your stupid post that had all sorts of ridiculous assumptions, the first being that Chicago even calls a timeout. Chances are the Vikings run the ball right after the Nailor play, and Chicago does not call a timeout, that is the norm in the NFL.

Either the teams tend to think the offenses will just bungle it, or they don't want to keep stopping the clock and giving the offense time to put together the right TD play with different packages, or having more time to think about it.

No need to complicate my point: the Vikings run the ball on the 1st down after the Nailor catch, the Vikings probably go on to win the game. Whether that means running again or doing a short pass on 2nd down, doesn't matter. And picking up the 1st down at the 5 yard line kills any unorthodox use of using all their timeouts by Chicago, and would also have allowed the Vikings a very good chance of just running the ball for a TD, and either way, Chicago has no time left, after the Vikings score a TD.

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

The post I just posted, was in response to your post at 7:42, post #1415.

I was guessing the Nailor 1st down was at the 18, and will assume your correction to the 15 is correct. So that would make the 1st down at the 5 instead of the atr, makes no difference to this scenario, just that the Vikings would be 3 yards closer to getting a TD, which further supports my point that running the ball would have been the better strategy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

My scenario only needs one run after the Nailor catch, everything else falls into place.

The scenario I presented is just one of many that would have happened after the Vikings ran the ball right after the Nailor 1st down catch. The domino effect is running time off the clock, and the Vikings winning.

I just presented one simple scenario to show how the Vikings could have easily won the game by running even more, but they also could have done short passes after that, many different options.

I am glad to see you have come around to the idea that taking time off the clock would have been the best strategy. It was might thought right after the Nailor catch, and I immediately thought that if the Vikings run the ball, they will win the game. I saw the Addison TD, and my immediate thought was that we let way too much time on the clock, and the Bears are now likely to win. Reality proved it to be so.