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RE: General Vikes Talkk

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RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/18/2025 10:00:01 AM   
Mark Anderson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

And again, a very good offensive team could have run some clock. But the Vikings offense on Sunday wasn't the '98 Vikings that could run, run, have a picnic, then just lob it to Moss or fire it to Carter for the ho-hum game winner.

Mason was fully capable of busting off a 12 yard run on first down. He does that, and McCarthy might not even have to attempt a go ahead TD. 12 yards brings it from the 18 to the 6 yard line. Then Mason gains 4 yards, and you've got 3 downs to get 2 yards.

McCarthy is also capable of running it in like he did in Chicago, or he can hit one his quality, clutch WRs (Addison has been very good near the end of the games, the catch against Cleveland was incredible), or Hock, or McConnel draws up something that leaves speedy wide open in the end zone.

You act as though we already had 40 points on the board and could do whatever we wanted. We had 10 points. Seven of those came with the help of a big punt return. Scoring anyway you can was the right choice.
Post #: 1376
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/18/2025 10:01:45 AM   
marty


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Status: offline 		Disagree, it doesn't matter how many points you have scored, you only need a TD, and you have it 1st down in the red zone, be smart with the clock, and you win the game. You must have missed all my other points about scoring.

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RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/18/2025 10:06:39 AM   
Mark Anderson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Disagree, it doesn't matter how many points you have scored, you only need a TD, and you have it 1st down in the red zone, be smart with the clock, and you win the game. You must have missed all my other points about scoring.

Hindsight is great.

But, we could have handed it off to Mason and he fumbles game away. We could have got a 1st down at the 8 and JJM throws a tipped ball INT after that.

If the offense was clicking, we probably do try to milk the clock. It was not good all day.
Post #: 1378
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/18/2025 10:13:00 AM   
Rob Viking

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob Viking

And Ryan Grigson is terrible. What did he do after landing Andrew Luck? He never addressed the OLine until finally drafting Kelly in 2016, otherwise he was getting Luck hammered out there. Total GM malpractice.

Had Grigson been more responsible with his drafting Andrew Luck would still be playing.

Not entirely sure about that assumption. Andrew Luck was a different kind of cat. Retired during his prime. Currently the GM of Stanford Athletics.

I'm not defending Grigson, BTW.


Perhaps, it's difficult to say if Luck fell out of love with the game because of the grind of it all or other reasons. However being amongst the league leaders in hits most seasons certainly didn't help.
Post #: 1379
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/18/2025 10:19:44 AM   
Mark Anderson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob Viking

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob Viking

And Ryan Grigson is terrible. What did he do after landing Andrew Luck? He never addressed the OLine until finally drafting Kelly in 2016, otherwise he was getting Luck hammered out there. Total GM malpractice.

Had Grigson been more responsible with his drafting Andrew Luck would still be playing.

Not entirely sure about that assumption. Andrew Luck was a different kind of cat. Retired during his prime. Currently the GM of Stanford Athletics.

I'm not defending Grigson, BTW.


Perhaps, it's difficult to say if Luck fell out of love with the game because of the grind of it all or other reasons. However being amongst the league leaders in hits most seasons certainly didn't help.

Luck saw all the concussion type problems players have after football. He wanted to live a healthy life after football. IMO.
Post #: 1380
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/18/2025 10:20:45 AM   
Mark Anderson

 

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Status: offline 		Was Bears LT just bad or has Dallas Turner turned a corner?
Post #: 1381
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/18/2025 10:38:08 AM   
Phil Riewer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob Viking

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob Viking

And Ryan Grigson is terrible. What did he do after landing Andrew Luck? He never addressed the OLine until finally drafting Kelly in 2016, otherwise he was getting Luck hammered out there. Total GM malpractice.

Had Grigson been more responsible with his drafting Andrew Luck would still be playing.

Not entirely sure about that assumption. Andrew Luck was a different kind of cat. Retired during his prime. Currently the GM of Stanford Athletics.

I'm not defending Grigson, BTW.


Perhaps, it's difficult to say if Luck fell out of love with the game because of the grind of it all or other reasons. However being amongst the league leaders in hits most seasons certainly didn't help.


Are we just ignoring his injuries?

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Post #: 1382
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/18/2025 11:20:42 AM   
Trekgeekscott


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Disagree, it doesn't matter how many points you have scored, you only need a TD, and you have it 1st down in the red zone, be smart with the clock, and you win the game. You must have missed all my other points about scoring.

Hindsight is great.

But, we could have handed it off to Mason and he fumbles game away. We could have got a 1st down at the 8 and JJM throws a tipped ball INT after that.

If the offense was clicking, we probably do try to milk the clock. It was not good all day.


There was no guarantee of scoring a TD considering how bad they were most of the game.. So scoring when they did was a good thing. I fully agree with you.

The problem was kick off coverage. They should have kicked it into the endzone.

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Post #: 1383
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/18/2025 11:21:09 AM   
Trekgeekscott


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

Was Bears LT just bad or has Dallas Turner turned a corner?


Turner had a great game. Probably would have been better if the LT, who did suck for this game, hadn't been getting away with blatant holding all game.

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RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/18/2025 11:31:24 AM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Disagree, it doesn't matter how many points you have scored, you only need a TD, and you have it 1st down in the red zone, be smart with the clock, and you win the game. You must have missed all my other points about scoring.


You should check our stats on Red Zone scoring for the season...
Post #: 1385
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/18/2025 11:41:49 AM   
Mark Anderson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

Was Bears LT just bad or has Dallas Turner turned a corner?


Turner had a great game. Probably would have been better if the LT, who did suck for this game, hadn't been getting away with blatant holding all game.

Offensive holding is probably the most inconsistent call in all of sports. Some officials call everything and some call nothing. No consistency at all.
Post #: 1386
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/18/2025 12:00:07 PM   
TJSweens


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

Was Bears LT just bad or has Dallas Turner turned a corner?


Turner had a great game. Probably would have been better if the LT, who did suck for this game, hadn't been getting away with blatant holding all game.

Turner had a nice pass breakup too.

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RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/18/2025 12:04:03 PM  1 votes
Bill Johanesen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I don't think the return by Chicago mattered as much as you think.

Today's NFL favors the offense, it would have been nothing for Caleb to complete 2 20 yard passed in 15 seconds, and today's kickers can kick very long FGs. Give them 50 seconds to get a FG, and any .500 team is probably going to beat you.



Ah, more hypotheticals and assumptions!
Post #: 1388
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/18/2025 12:08:24 PM  1 votes
Bill Johanesen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty




Congrats, you were able to submit 7 consecutive posts w/o once accounting for what happened Sunday.

And I see a few others have chimed in disagreeing with you and your basis for your hypotheticals and assumptions. Par for the course.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 11/18/2025 12:13:23 PM >
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RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/18/2025 2:30:12 PM   
beo

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

Was Bears LT just bad or has Dallas Turner turned a corner?


Turner had a very solid game.

He is clearly at his best rushing the passer in the Greenard role.

Vikes continue to have him play more of the Van Ginkel (more coverage role)... whether due to personel, injury or stubborness I'm not sure.

Turner still gets washed out in runs a bit... but getting better.

I think if he is DE in typical 4-3 defense he gets double digit sacks.
Post #: 1390
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/18/2025 3:45:16 PM   
marty


Posts: 13648
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline 		Thank you Bill, I have made very strong statements on this, and they stand on their own merit. I have only seen weak counter points here.

I will bite on the one counter point that could have something:

What are the Viking stats for Red Zone scoring with McCarthy at the helm in the 4th quarter ? And to be really precise, what are the Viking stats for Red Zone scoring against the Bears, in the 4th quarter, with McCarthy at the helm ?

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Post #: 1391
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/18/2025 4:02:02 PM   
Bill Johanesen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Thank you Bill, I have made very strong statements on this, and they stand on their own merit. I have only seen weak counter points here.

I will bite on the one counter point that could have something:

What are the Viking stats for Red Zone scoring with McCarthy at the helm in the 4th quarter ? And to be really precise, what are the Viking stats for Red Zone scoring against the Bears, in the 4th quarter, with McCarthy at the helm ?


Your points never stood on merit, but they did stand alone... until they crumbled when faced with the reality of posters providing reasoning, sensibility, awareness, facts you didn't account for, counters to your incorrect beliefs, and the big picture.
Post #: 1392
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/18/2025 4:07:12 PM   
marty


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Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline 		I will help you out a little bit here:

Reality supports my conclusion that the Vikings scored too quickly on Sunday, the reality is it led to a loss.

The fact that McCarthy doesn't have too much trouble scoring in the Red Zone against the Bears this season in the 4th quarter, also supports the idea that had the Vikings run the ball on first down, or even on both 1st and 2nd down, the Vikings probably still would have gotten the TD.

In fact, I think even the Bears were surprised the Vikings were stupid enough to throw to the end zone on 1st down at the 18 with 50 seconds left, leaving the Bears with all that time. The surprise element is partially what helped to fool the CB, leading to the somewhat easy TD to Addison.

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Post #: 1393
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/18/2025 4:07:14 PM   
marty


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RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/18/2025 4:08:00 PM   
Bill Johanesen


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Status: offline 		My particular favorite Martyline that is not based at all in reality: One run play after the Nailor 1st down, puts the Vikings in the driver's seat with the clock.

Then again, you forgot the score and asked why we didn't go for two, so when you wrote that it's quite plausible you had no idea the Bears had three timeouts.
Post #: 1395
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/18/2025 4:10:15 PM   
marty


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Status: offline 		Bill, my big picture, is bigger than your big picture

I am not surprised you would come in and once again show your limited thinking, and not surprised there might be other Dave, Bill and Harry's with similar limited thinking, that might agree with you.

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RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/18/2025 4:11:02 PM   
Bill Johanesen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I will help you out a little bit here:

Reality supports my conclusion that the Vikings scored too quickly on Sunday, the reality is it led to a loss.

The fact that McCarthy doesn't have too much trouble scoring in the Red Zone against the Bears this season in the 4th quarter, also supports the idea that had the Vikings run the ball on first down, or even on both 1st and 2nd down, the Vikings probably still would have gotten the TD.

In fact, I think even the Bears were surprised the Vikings were stupid enough to throw to the end zone on 1st down at the 18 with 50 seconds left, leaving the Bears with all that time. The surprise element is partially what helped to fool the CB, leading to the somewhat easy TD to Addison.



The Bears then could have used two of their 3 timeouts. Same result. Plenty of time. What then? Run again and be fired for stupidity?

Oh, now it's the CB was surprised. Got it.
Post #: 1397
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/18/2025 4:13:02 PM   
marty


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Status: offline 		Bill, I was very much aware the Bears had 3 TOs, and have very much included that in the discussion
It sounds like you not only have limited thinking, you probably didn't read very much of all the points I made on this, just skimming, and then latching onto any little point with which your little brain might produce a tiny counter point.

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RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/18/2025 4:15:26 PM   
marty


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Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline 		The Vikings could have gotten a 1st down, negating the Bears using all their timeouts, and the Vikings go on to run the clock down to nothing, giving the Bears absolutely no time to counter with a score, after the Vikings score the go ahead touchdown.

Thanks for reinforcing my point.

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RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/18/2025 4:24:05 PM   
Bill Johanesen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Bill, I was very much aware the Bears had 3 TOs, and have very much included that in the discussion
It sounds like you not only have limited thinking, you probably didn't read very much of all the points I made on this, just skimming, and then latching onto any little point with which your little brain might produce a tiny counter point.


I provided plausible outcomes using estimated clock stoppages from timeouts and the amount of time actually used (like with the kickoff return). The conclusion was either the same outcome even with Chicago using one or two timeouts in the RZ or basically four more plays the Vikings would have had to run, the first three intentionally staying out of the EZ.

You provided nothing but standard tripe without factoring in, well, anything.

So you run along now and conjure up more fabricated points for the board to shoot down. Should be fun!

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 11/18/2025 4:31:12 PM >
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