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RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/25/2025 12:11:48 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

Is it me, or are people a half-inch from saying..................................BRAD H WAS RIGHT!

14-3

I was critical of the McCarthy pick. I was and still am of the belief that Darnold will get anyone to the promised land. Time will tell. If he looks good in a playoff win I will probably reconsider. Getting to the playoffs means Jack to me if they just get bounced immediately. Having said all that I like Darnold as a player. I just question his big game ability.

We didn't re-sign Darnold because what we had already seen with Cousins. Big money QB who excels in regular season and doesn't elevate play when the chips are down. Rams loss was on everyone but DET choke was all on Darnold. 2024 was fools gold. Easy schedule with probably 3-4 quality wins.

Biggest mistake(in hindsight) was not telling Jones he had a chance at being #1 QB. $15M per year would have been the bargain of the year.

Well, apparently Seattle bought that fools gold you speak of. At 8-3, my guess is they are very happy about it.

I'm not saying he is bad. He's a top 12 QB. Just hasn't stepped up in huge games. He had a huge game this year and threw 4 picks.


Darnold has had 3 big games in his career and he has choked in all 3 of those games. 0-3.

I honestly like Darnold. I have many posts saying I wanted to re-sign him during regular season last year.

But, right now, he is Cousins lite. Because Cousins actually won a playoff game with a clutch OT drive. On the road.

Yes unfortunately the pass to Rudy pushing off is a reverse blemish on an otherwise choking dog resume.

Our QB standard is so low here that we’re pining for okay to decent QBs lacking big game DNA.

< Message edited by Tom Sykes -- 11/25/2025 12:17:53 PM >
Post #: 1651
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/25/2025 1:32:19 PM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lars

I have said it before and I will say it again:

I have seen enough great regular season records, playoff appearances and wild-card round losses. I want to see this team win a SB. Anything less than that now is just filler.

Rumor is NE wanted two or three 1st rounders plus Darrisaw to move up for Maye.

Looking like a good deal for us right now.


We would not have the same Drake Maye the Patriots do.

His biggest knock was pretty serious mechanical issues.

And we don't have an Ashton Grant. We have a Josh McCown.
Post #: 1652
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/25/2025 1:32:29 PM   
Phil Riewer


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Worst case scenario always.....

We let go of QBs that can't win playoff games as we decided to try for a QBOTF with moxy to win playoffs games. Now we can't even make the playoffs.

You have to play Brosmer and JJ to see what we have.

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Post #: 1653
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/25/2025 1:56:01 PM   
Arlowe84

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Worst case scenario always.....

We let go of QBs that can't win playoff games as we decided to try for a QBOTF with moxy to win playoffs games. Now we can't even make the playoffs.

You have to play Brosmer and JJ to see what we have.


Hot take. Brosmer way outplays JJ.

Not saying there won't be some rough moments, and he may throw 3 INTs, but he is much more of an easy transition to the NFL than JJ
JJ should have been a project

Brosmer Better thrower, quicker release, can diagnose the field faster.

Seattle is about as good as it gets on D. Young and fast. Nasty dline.
Post #: 1654
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/25/2025 2:57:17 PM   
Trekgeekscott


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Worst case scenario always.....

We let go of QBs that can't win playoff games as we decided to try for a QBOTF with moxy to win playoffs games. Now we can't even make the playoffs.

You have to play Brosmer and JJ to see what we have.


Hot take. Brosmer way outplays JJ.

Not saying there won't be some rough moments, and he may throw 3 INTs, but he is much more of an easy transition to the NFL than JJ
JJ should have been a project

Brosmer Better thrower, quicker release, can diagnose the field faster.

Seattle is about as good as it gets on D. Young and fast. Nasty dline.



As bad as it has been. outplaying JJ isn't saying much.

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Post #: 1655
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/25/2025 3:33:11 PM   
Phil Riewer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Worst case scenario always.....

We let go of QBs that can't win playoff games as we decided to try for a QBOTF with moxy to win playoffs games. Now we can't even make the playoffs.

You have to play Brosmer and JJ to see what we have.


Hot take. Brosmer way outplays JJ.

Not saying there won't be some rough moments, and he may throw 3 INTs, but he is much more of an easy transition to the NFL than JJ
JJ should have been a project

Brosmer Better thrower, quicker release, can diagnose the field faster.

Seattle is about as good as it gets on D. Young and fast. Nasty dline.



As bad as it has been. outplaying JJ isn't saying much.


It really isn't much of a hot take.
JJ has more talent than Brosmer but to me it doesn't matter who is the QB.
Purdy also had less talent than Lance at SF.

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Post #: 1656
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/25/2025 11:09:42 PM   
marty


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Ratoppenheimer gets it:

o'connell should analyze how sean payton manages bo nix...quicker passes, shorter yards per attempt, lower number of sacks and interceptions....

start with this as a basis and develop mccarthy from there...don't try to make him something he isn't, or is not ready to be at this moment....


But it's also true that Nix was all short passes in college, and questions of whether or not his team will advance in the playoffs without him making the opposing defense have a little bit of a respect for his throwing it deep.

Ben Johnson started the last Vikings game giving Caleb mostly safe throws, and running the ball, with a few deep passes mixed in, and all those deep passes failed. But they were enough to make Flores respect the deep pass, and Johnson also gives Caleb a chance to run at times.

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Post #: 1657
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/25/2025 11:17:11 PM   
marty


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Darnold was fortunate to go to a good situation where they also have a good defense, had he ended up starting for about 10 other teams (where they didn't have a starter), we might be congratulating Kwesi for letting Darnold go, just like letting Kirk go appeared to be the right situation last year.

Had McCarthy been drafted by the Bears, he likely would have sucked his 1st year, but with Ben Johnson being the HC this season, McCarthy wouldn't have excelled as much as Caleb, but I think he would have looked serviceable. In his 3rd season, I think McCarthy MAY have excelled with his 2nd season under Ben Johnson, but you still don't know if enough of his mechanical flaws would have been corrected. I would lean towards McCarthy excelling because of the type of person he is, which still gives me a trace amount of hope for him as a Viking.

< Message edited by marty -- 11/25/2025 11:18:50 PM >


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Post #: 1658
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/26/2025 2:45:25 AM   
marty


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Arlowe

After watching the video you posted with the Warner breakdown, I am convinced that Kurt Warner is to blame for not helping KOC and McCarthy work out these simple problems.

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Post #: 1659
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/26/2025 8:59:49 AM   
Bill Johanesen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Ratoppenheimer gets it:

o'connell should analyze how sean payton manages bo nix...quicker passes, shorter yards per attempt, lower number of sacks and interceptions....

start with this as a basis and develop mccarthy from there...don't try to make him something he isn't, or is not ready to be at this moment....


But it's also true that Nix was all short passes in college, and questions of whether or not his team will advance in the playoffs without him making the opposing defense have a little bit of a respect for his throwing it deep.

...


Nix is an interesting case. He is pretty low on ypa but that's also a function of completion percentage. He's low on 1st Down % but down/distance and playcalling factor in that. But he is about average on number of 20+ and 40+ yard completions.

I think it was David who presented something a few days ago that hit the nail on the head... KOC wants the classic pocket passer, but JJM is, well, anything but that.
Post #: 1660
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/26/2025 9:01:28 AM   
Bill Johanesen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Interesting comment from DN:

JJM isn't KOC's type of QB. KOC wants a classic drop back passer with excellent mechanics who goes through his progressions. J

JM, based on his tape at Michigan, is more of a make something happen on the fly type of QB. And he's trying his darndest to be a KOC type of QB, and he's just not that, and it's totally messing with him.

Jim Harbaugh might be the perfect coach for JJM. Herbert might be the perfect QB for KOC.

Post #: 1661
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/26/2025 12:12:32 PM   
ratoppenheimer


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From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Ratoppenheimer gets it:

o'connell should analyze how sean payton manages bo nix...quicker passes, shorter yards per attempt, lower number of sacks and interceptions....

start with this as a basis and develop mccarthy from there...don't try to make him something he isn't, or is not ready to be at this moment....


But it's also true that Nix was all short passes in college, and questions of whether or not his team will advance in the playoffs without him making the opposing defense have a little bit of a respect for his throwing it deep.

...


Nix is an interesting case. He is pretty low on ypa but that's also a function of completion percentage. He's low on 1st Down % but down/distance and playcalling factor in that. But he is about average on number of 20+ and 40+ yard completions.

I think it was David who presented something a few days ago that hit the nail on the head... KOC wants the classic pocket passer, but JJM is, well, anything but that.


i'm thinking about getting mccarthy started...breaking him into the nfl...i realize that payton is giving nix playcalling that he's used to, and very comfortable with...for o'connell and mccarthy, i see it and the beginning of the process to bring him around, step by step....

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Post #: 1662
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/26/2025 12:35:18 PM   
Bill Jandro

 

Posts: 18117
Joined: 8/13/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Ratoppenheimer gets it:

o'connell should analyze how sean payton manages bo nix...quicker passes, shorter yards per attempt, lower number of sacks and interceptions....

start with this as a basis and develop mccarthy from there...don't try to make him something he isn't, or is not ready to be at this moment....


But it's also true that Nix was all short passes in college, and questions of whether or not his team will advance in the playoffs without him making the opposing defense have a little bit of a respect for his throwing it deep.

...


Nix is an interesting case. He is pretty low on ypa but that's also a function of completion percentage. He's low on 1st Down % but down/distance and playcalling factor in that. But he is about average on number of 20+ and 40+ yard completions.

I think it was David who presented something a few days ago that hit the nail on the head... KOC wants the classic pocket passer, but JJM is, well, anything but that.


i'm thinking about getting mccarthy started...breaking him into the nfl...i realize that payton is giving nix playcalling that he's used to, and very comfortable with...for o'connell and mccarthy, i see it and the beginning of the process to bring him around, step by step....

Either way O'Connell completely misjudged JJM's readiness. The kid needed the bulk of the reps during PS. Not having a vet backup or starter earlier was also a huge misfire. That was evident by them signing the corpse of Carson Wentz 5 days before the season started. Kwesi shares a ton of blame here too.

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Post #: 1663
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/26/2025 2:05:23 PM   
Bill Johanesen


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From April 15, 2025. KOC should go into marketing.

The theme couldn't be clearer: McCarthy's talent was palpable before he got injured last August; he was absorbing coaches' feedback, reaching goals and improving steadily in every facet of his role as an NFL QB.

"It started showing up more and more," O'Connell told Breer last week. "And that's always a real positive from my perspective, when you can really start stacking coaching points onto things that he's showing improvement on or ownership of. His overall understanding of our offense, the comfort level, even in the reps, whether it was versus the No. 1 defense or in competitive situations in practice, you were starting to see him play faster but under control while still maintaining the principles that we're coaching."

"We won't know until we get out on the grass with him," O'Connell said. "But my expectation is he's going to have a great spring and we're going to feel really good about him going into training camp.

"I'm excited to see him get that opportunity to pick up where he left off and be accelerated, just because of the mental growth that he's been able to have within our offense, and the verbiage and how we talk about plays," O'Connell added. "It's just a matter of continuing to progress, knowing we feel good about the football team we've put together. We've got the goal of surrounding the quarterback with the best possible team we can, both offensively and defensively. We feel really good about what that looks like."
Post #: 1664
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/26/2025 3:02:40 PM   
David Levine


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• Max Brosmer, the undrafted rookie quarterback who'll likely start for the Vikings on Sunday in Seattle if struggling starter J.J. McCarthy can't clear concussion protocol in time, is an intriguing player for Minnesota. He spent the bulk of his college career at New Hampshire before finishing with one year at the University of Minnesota, whose offense I'm told features some of the concepts the Vikings' offense uses. The expectation from those I've talked to about Brosmer is that he'll be prepared and efficient and able to operate Kevin O'Connell's offense on time. He's not as athletically talented as McCarthy (hence, being undrafted), but the Vikings love his football IQ and ability to process. The hope is that he can bring some stability and consistency to the offense that hasn't been there amid McCarthy's struggles.

It's going to be a tough test against Mike Macdonald's defense, but quite frankly, McCarthy's performance hasn't set the bar very high. The Vikings still insist they believe in McCarthy and plan for him to be the franchise QB moving forward. But if Brosmer shows some level of ability to get the ball into the hands of Justin Jefferson and Jordan Addison consistently, it's going to be very interesting to see what Minnesota does once McCarthy is cleared to play again.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/47096100/nfl-week-13-buzz-news-updates-fantasy-intel-questions-predictions

Fowler's notes:

• The Vikings' quarterback plight will inevitably affect their 2026 plans. Save an unexpected star turn from Brosmer this weekend, the Vikings might have no choice but to stick with McCarthy through the rest of the season. Alternatives are scarce with Carson Wentz out for the year. A few people inside the league I've spoken to wonder whether Minnesota can follow the Colts' blueprint from this past offseason, bringing in a veteran/reclamation project to compete with McCarthy and potentially start -- similar to Daniel Jones vs. Anthony Richardson Sr. in Indy.

The funny thing about that scenario is Jones would be an ideal fit in Minnesota, where he backed up Sam Darnold last season. But as the top free agent quarterback, he will score a sizable deal in Indianapolis or elsewhere. Still, the Vikings really liked Jones, and their situation this offseason will be far different than the one from a year ago. Making a play for Jones would give him multiple options to consider.

Rodgers wanted to be a Viking last year and will also be a free agent, and the Vikings kept tabs on Joe Flacco's free agency last spring, and he has been effective for multiple teams in recent years. He could be a sensible fallback plan. Arizona's Kyler Murray could become available should the Cardinals decide to start fresh at the position, too. His chances to play again this season are seemingly becoming slimmer by the week.

Two interesting names from the high-end QB2 realm are San Francisco's Mac Jones and Houston's Davis Mills. Both are under contract in 2026 at reasonable salaries. Jones has played his way into real trade value for San Francisco, which might be able to parlay a Day 2 pick for him. Houston believes Mills is a top-32 quarterback in the league who could start somewhere. Perhaps GM Nick Caserio gets trade interest on him from Minnesota or elsewhere. O'Connell's track record with veterans is proven, so it feels like that's a viable option for next year, and there's a way to do it without ostracizing McCarthy, via competition. And O'Connell also has respect for Richardson, who could be the next reclamation QB to thrive elsewhere. Richardson has interest in playing for a coach from the Sean McVay tree, either the man himself or a disciple like O'Connell.

< Message edited by David Levine -- 11/26/2025 3:04:28 PM >
Post #: 1665
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/26/2025 4:37:14 PM   
Bill Jandro

 

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Just say no to Anthony Richardson. The guy threw 393 passes in college. He's more of a project that McCarthy.

Might make a TE or an edge rusher but still a project.

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Post #: 1666
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/27/2025 12:42:36 AM   
ratoppenheimer


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.
below is a video of every mccarthy pass drop-back against the packers with a bit of commentary...it's only 10 minutes...worth a look....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqHgHxzTYes

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the journey...is paradise.
Post #: 1667
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/27/2025 6:48:34 AM   
eagleflorida

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
below is a video of every mccarthy pass drop-back against the packers with a bit of commentary...it's only 10 minutes...worth a look....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqHgHxzTYes


Nice find rat.

Packer dline absolutely owned our oline. Darrisaw tossed around like a rag doll.
Post #: 1668
RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/27/2025 9:33:25 AM   
Bill Johanesen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
below is a video of every mccarthy pass drop-back against the packers with a bit of commentary...it's only 10 minutes...worth a look....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqHgHxzTYes


On the glossy surface this video appears to have merit, like well JJM wasn't so bad after all. But when held against Warner's astute analysis and deeper dive it doesn't hold water.

And what is with him calling people haters with remarks like "I will cater to the haters on this play."? Only 3 bad plays out of 24? Is this guy from the marketing arm of Kwesi Enterprises?
Post #: 1669
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