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RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/24/2025 7:25:27 PM

Chris Olson

Posts: 6966
Joined: 7/15/2007
From: Saratoga Springs, NY
Status: offline

Warner talks about "pure progression" a bunch in this video...

without knowing anything for sure, it feels like KOC might be coaching pure progression to make it paint by numbers for him...

but the great QB's are eliminating half the progression pre-snap and in that first look after the snap, which speeds up their game

JJM appears to either process it too slowly, get "stuck" on a player (often Jefferson), or just not read it well, leading to a lot of "wasted plays" even if not picked or sacked

add to it that he doesn't get the ball out quickly enough when he does make a decision and only having a fastball limits him too much

I can't see him relearning all this

But I guess the start of this post was that KOC may be at fault in a lot of this, as we see how many of his QB's are slow to get rid of the ball and in turn, lots of pressure, sacks and 3 and outs

Post #: 1626

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/24/2025 7:29:40 PM

Chris Olson

Posts: 6966
Joined: 7/15/2007
From: Saratoga Springs, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

After watching Warner's breakdown. It's more and more apparent KOC took a kid with some talent, and asked him to do waayyyyy too much too soon.

I mean the kid barely threw the ball at Michigan and he expected him to come in and just run a complex NFL offense

Then you add in the the throwing issues, well it's a f**cking disaster

It's almost impossible to understand what he was thinking.

Video of him at the combine is surfacing. He badly misses a handful of receivers in the throwing drill.

I think they saw a hard working kid with a huge arm and terrible mechanics and thought they could fix him.

At this point I would throw a ton of money at Ashton Grant and make him our OC and QB coach.

Sounds like they need someone who can help him, and folks are talking about McCown being under scrutiny as well.

I don't hate pulling a Bryce Young and just let him sit for awhile and see if they can get some of these things worked out

Yeah, that seemed to help Young, but he at least looked like a qb, just got no help

I also wouldn't mind seeing us move on, admit the mistake and find the right guy...if he becomes Darnold in year 6 for another team, then good for JJ

I don't want to wait another year to make the same decision

Post #: 1627

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/24/2025 7:40:53 PM

Daniel Lee Young

Posts: 15801
Status: offline

Until we fix the idiot at GM and HIS staff of useless evaluations and draft evaluations, we are just pissing in the wind..

Look back at picks made, picks given away, and the actual number of players that made ANY contribution to improving our roster,..

All the decisions, made from GM down, in the Kwesi era, have been at best mediocre.

One or two “ hits” across 4 drafts?

I’m done with this shit.. extending Smith, bringing back Thielen, and over paying Murphy, while letting Bynum walk?

The only thing that has crept upwards is receivers and OL.

Safety, cornerback and DL have regressed, linebackers area fear agent money pit, and multiple coaching positions are staffed by idiots..

This season is lost.. we need to get a new GM and draft team in here and clean house of the “ old slows..”

I’m not even against a new head coach.. the wilfs have enough money to eat those contracts as appetizers..

Post #: 1628

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/24/2025 7:59:02 PM

Richard Neussendorfer

Posts: 20843
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

Until we fix the idiot at GM and HIS staff of useless evaluations and draft evaluations, we are just pissing in the wind..

Look back at picks made, picks given away, and the actual number of players that made ANY contribution to improving our roster,..

All the decisions, made from GM down, in the Kwesi era, have been at best mediocre.

One or two “ hits” across 4 drafts?

I’m done with this shit.. extending Smith, bringing back Thielen, and over paying Murphy, while letting Bynum walk?

The only thing that has crept upwards is receivers and OL.

Safety, cornerback and DL have regressed, linebackers area fear agent money pit, and multiple coaching positions are staffed by idiots..

This season is lost.. we need to get a new GM and draft team in here and clean house of the “ old slows..”

I’m not even against a new head coach.. the wilfs have enough money to eat those contracts as appetizers..

Couldn't agree more!

Post #: 1629

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/24/2025 9:33:01 PM

beo

Posts: 2528
Joined: 3/18/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris Olson

Warner talks about "pure progression" a bunch in this video...

without knowing anything for sure, it feels like KOC might be coaching pure progression to make it paint by numbers for him...

but the great QB's are eliminating half the progression pre-snap and in that first look after the snap, which speeds up their game

JJM appears to either process it too slowly, get "stuck" on a player (often Jefferson), or just not read it well, leading to a lot of "wasted plays" even if not picked or sacked

add to it that he doesn't get the ball out quickly enough when he does make a decision and only having a fastball limits him too much

I can't see him relearning all this

But I guess the start of this post was that KOC may be at fault in a lot of this, as we see how many of his QB's are slow to get rid of the ball and in turn, lots of pressure, sacks and 3 and outs

I thought Warner had really interesting insight...

JJM clearly not processing fast enough.
JJM probably not going through progressions correctly (could be coaching but that's a little hard to believe on a bunch of the plays)

But a lot of criticism for KOC too.
Warner was pretty critical of play design on a bunch of plays.

Finally some receiver issues... poor route running or lack of interest... hard to tell which.

Post #: 1630

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/25/2025 3:17:00 AM

Todd M

Posts: 41736
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

As I've stated, I haven't watched a game all year. It's given me some peace. BC they ****ing suck. Tell me why we have to be stuck getting the loser out of the 6 1st round QB''s? Now I know I don't know any better when it comes to judging pre draft talent but JJ's playing worse than you'd expect from an undrafted rookie. He had a whole year to prepare and it looks like he has no business being a starter.

And instead of bouncing off a 14 win year and ascending they fell to the floor and look years away from turning it around.

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SD

Post #: 1631

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/25/2025 3:20:35 AM

Todd M

Posts: 41736
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

I can't imagine Kwesi's shit eating grin having scored an extension. Don't know how GM's salaries work but he's gotta go. KOC can have another chance, I guess. Kind of done with the NFL. Not sure it will turn around.

_____________________________

SD

Post #: 1632

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/25/2025 5:12:41 AM

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9834
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline

.
o'connell should analyze how sean payton manages bo nix...quicker passes, shorter yards per attempt, lower number of sacks and interceptions....

start with this as a basis and develop mccarthy from there...don't try to make him something he isn't, or is not ready to be at this moment....

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.

Post #: 1633

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/25/2025 7:27:16 AM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 18117
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

I think a lot of this leads to a very flawed offensive system.

It really got exposed in the last 2 games last year.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 1634

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/25/2025 7:31:15 AM

Arlowe84

Posts: 409
Joined: 9/30/2019
Status: offline

I guess my thought is Cousins/Darnold ran it just fine.

Did they have bad games? Sure

But no where close to this level of confidience?

Also - have players quit on JJ, just getting sloppy and lazy with things?

Post #: 1635

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/25/2025 7:48:24 AM

Arlowe84

Posts: 409
Joined: 9/30/2019
Status: offline

If I remember correct, Dobbs best game was his first couple when he was kind of winging it.

The more he had to absorb KOCs system the worse it go fast.

May just not be for some QBs. Cousins and Darnold both had a lot of QB starts under their belts

Post #: 1636

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/25/2025 9:25:27 AM

Brad H

Posts: 24415
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arlowe84

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

https://www.si.com/nfl/vikings/onsi/news/vikings-qb-jj-mccarthy-rewiring-neurological-pathways-on-the-fly

Lots of quotes in there. He's probably a total head case right now. And practicing dropbacks when he walks his dogs? What is this, Pop Warner?

KOC screwing up inexperienced QBs reminds me of Zimmer with DBs insisting they line up in exact spots.

Enough of the pocket passer, play action stuff. It's not working.

No huddle, RPO, roll outs. Try something different.

Are our RBs no good out of RPO? Does the OLine not understand how to run RPO?

I think this is what gets so many coaches fired. Not adapting

We all hate him, but Sean Peyton can coach
All that success he had with Drew Brees as a pocket passer, and then you look at how he’s utilized Bo Nix
Night and day

Will it be any better with RPO? Maybe not. But at least try it.

He did it with the Passtronaut Dobbs. So it's not like it something foreign to him(KOC)

It doesn't mean you have to totally abandon the play action pass deep shots. Just give the defense something else to think about. It looks like defenses know what is coming.

RPO. No RPO. Pocket passer. No pocket passes.

It doesn't matter if your quarterback isn't worth a shit. It's like rearranging the deck furniture on the Titanic.

Darnold ran into icebergs for 5-6 years. Finally figured it out.

Time will tell if JJM can.

Again, that's not apples to apples. Darnold never had anything around him in New York. He didn't have a Justin Jefferson, Jordan Addison, Hockenson, Jones, you name it. They had zero talent.

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!

Post #: 1637

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/25/2025 9:28:01 AM

Brad H

Posts: 24415
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

McCarthy was playing with a concussion. That may explain some things. Sounds like he's doubtful for next week's game.

That thing could end up being a Justin Morneau-type concussion. No way does McConnell want to put that kid back in there.

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!

Post #: 1638

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/25/2025 9:29:37 AM

Brad H

Posts: 24415
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

The bar is low. Can Brosmer throw for 100 yards?

Brosmer was the best QB during the preseason. I know it doesn't mean much, but he looked like the best guy in his limited time on the field.

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!

Post #: 1639

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/25/2025 9:34:21 AM 1 votes

Brad H

Posts: 24415
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: offline

Is it me, or are people a half-inch from saying..................................BRAD H WAS RIGHT!

14-3

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!

Post #: 1640

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/25/2025 9:42:21 AM

Richard Neussendorfer

Posts: 20843
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Alamogordo, NM
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

Is it me, or are people a half-inch from saying..................................BRAD H WAS RIGHT!

14-3

I was critical of the McCarthy pick. I was and still am of the belief that Darnold will get anyone to the promised land. Time will tell. If he looks good in a playoff win I will probably reconsider. Getting to the playoffs means Jack to me if they just get bounced immediately. Having said all that I like Darnold as a player. I just question his big game ability.

Post #: 1641

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/25/2025 10:03:12 AM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12553
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

Is it me, or are people a half-inch from saying..................................BRAD H WAS RIGHT!

14-3

I was critical of the McCarthy pick. I was and still am of the belief that Darnold will get anyone to the promised land. Time will tell. If he looks good in a playoff win I will probably reconsider. Getting to the playoffs means Jack to me if they just get bounced immediately. Having said all that I like Darnold as a player. I just question his big game ability.

We didn't re-sign Darnold because what we had already seen with Cousins. Big money QB who excels in regular season and doesn't elevate play when the chips are down. Rams loss was on everyone but DET choke was all on Darnold. 2024 was fools gold. Easy schedule with probably 3-4 quality wins.

Biggest mistake(in hindsight) was not telling Jones he had a chance at being #1 QB. $15M per year would have been the bargain of the year.

Post #: 1642

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/25/2025 10:19:20 AM

Brad H

Posts: 24415
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

Is it me, or are people a half-inch from saying..................................BRAD H WAS RIGHT!

14-3

I was critical of the McCarthy pick. I was and still am of the belief that Darnold will get anyone to the promised land. Time will tell. If he looks good in a playoff win I will probably reconsider. Getting to the playoffs means Jack to me if they just get bounced immediately. Having said all that I like Darnold as a player. I just question his big game ability.

We didn't re-sign Darnold because what we had already seen with Cousins. Big money QB who excels in regular season and doesn't elevate play when the chips are down. Rams loss was on everyone but DET choke was all on Darnold. 2024 was fools gold. Easy schedule with probably 3-4 quality wins.

Biggest mistake(in hindsight) was not telling Jones he had a chance at being #1 QB. $15M per year would have been the bargain of the year.

Well, apparently Seattle bought that fools gold you speak of. At 8-3, my guess is they are very happy about it.

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!

Post #: 1643

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/25/2025 10:27:41 AM

Lars

Posts: 11476
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Midi-chlorians
Status: offline

I think we all agree KAM needs to go. His drafts have been terrible. And his prize FA this last year to "rebuild" the interior OL and DL have been awful. Lots of dead wood to shed from this roster.

I am not sold on KOC. He makes a lot of poor in-game decisions. I don't think he is a QB whisperer. He got some good production out of guys who had NFL talent (Cousins, Darnold), but not enough to get over the hump.

JJM has looked terrible. A ton of that is on him for sure. I think he is in his head big time and struggling to find his footing after being super-succesful his entire life as a QB. I hope he finds his way, but I just don't know. His OL playing like shit and the poor gameplans don't seem to help. As many have said, some RPO, roll-outs, etc, would be helpful. He can succeed there. He needs some confidence and success. And WR/TE dropping passes doesn't help with that either.

The special teams gaffes in critical situations have killed them.

The defense has flashes, but gives up way too many plays on down/distance that should be favorable, and they don't stand up well to a consistent rush attack.

Overall, this is a team that is playing and being coached and managed at poor/mediocre level. The results speak to that.

< Message edited by Lars -- 11/25/2025 10:32:50 AM >

_____________________________

<this space for rent>

Post #: 1644

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/25/2025 10:31:51 AM

Lars

Posts: 11476
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Midi-chlorians
Status: offline

I have said it before and I will say it again:

I have seen enough great regular season records, playoff appearances and wild-card round losses. I want to see this team win a SB. Anything less than that now is just filler.

_____________________________

<this space for rent>

Post #: 1645

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/25/2025 10:34:28 AM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12553
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

Is it me, or are people a half-inch from saying..................................BRAD H WAS RIGHT!

14-3

I was critical of the McCarthy pick. I was and still am of the belief that Darnold will get anyone to the promised land. Time will tell. If he looks good in a playoff win I will probably reconsider. Getting to the playoffs means Jack to me if they just get bounced immediately. Having said all that I like Darnold as a player. I just question his big game ability.

We didn't re-sign Darnold because what we had already seen with Cousins. Big money QB who excels in regular season and doesn't elevate play when the chips are down. Rams loss was on everyone but DET choke was all on Darnold. 2024 was fools gold. Easy schedule with probably 3-4 quality wins.

Biggest mistake(in hindsight) was not telling Jones he had a chance at being #1 QB. $15M per year would have been the bargain of the year.

Well, apparently Seattle bought that fools gold you speak of. At 8-3, my guess is they are very happy about it.

I'm not saying he is bad. He's a top 12 QB. Just hasn't stepped up in huge games. He had a huge game this year and threw 4 picks.

Post #: 1646

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/25/2025 10:35:51 AM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12553
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

Is it me, or are people a half-inch from saying..................................BRAD H WAS RIGHT!

14-3

I was critical of the McCarthy pick. I was and still am of the belief that Darnold will get anyone to the promised land. Time will tell. If he looks good in a playoff win I will probably reconsider. Getting to the playoffs means Jack to me if they just get bounced immediately. Having said all that I like Darnold as a player. I just question his big game ability.

We didn't re-sign Darnold because what we had already seen with Cousins. Big money QB who excels in regular season and doesn't elevate play when the chips are down. Rams loss was on everyone but DET choke was all on Darnold. 2024 was fools gold. Easy schedule with probably 3-4 quality wins.

Biggest mistake(in hindsight) was not telling Jones he had a chance at being #1 QB. $15M per year would have been the bargain of the year.

Well, apparently Seattle bought that fools gold you speak of. At 8-3, my guess is they are very happy about it.

We had probably four quality wins last year. If you want argue that, I'm all ears.

Post #: 1647

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/25/2025 10:56:10 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 31684
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

Is it me, or are people a half-inch from saying..................................BRAD H WAS RIGHT!

14-3

I was critical of the McCarthy pick. I was and still am of the belief that Darnold will get anyone to the promised land. Time will tell. If he looks good in a playoff win I will probably reconsider. Getting to the playoffs means Jack to me if they just get bounced immediately. Having said all that I like Darnold as a player. I just question his big game ability.

We didn't re-sign Darnold because what we had already seen with Cousins. Big money QB who excels in regular season and doesn't elevate play when the chips are down. Rams loss was on everyone but DET choke was all on Darnold. 2024 was fools gold. Easy schedule with probably 3-4 quality wins.

Biggest mistake(in hindsight) was not telling Jones he had a chance at being #1 QB. $15M per year would have been the bargain of the year.

Well, apparently Seattle bought that fools gold you speak of. At 8-3, my guess is they are very happy about it.

I'm not saying he is bad. He's a top 12 QB. Just hasn't stepped up in huge games. He had a huge game this year and threw 4 picks.

Darnold has had 3 big games in his career and he has choked in all 3 of those games. 0-3.

Post #: 1648

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/25/2025 10:56:22 AM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12553
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lars

I have said it before and I will say it again:

I have seen enough great regular season records, playoff appearances and wild-card round losses. I want to see this team win a SB. Anything less than that now is just filler.

Rumor is NE wanted two or three 1st rounders plus Darrisaw to move up for Maye.

Looking like a good deal for us right now.

Post #: 1649

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 11/25/2025 10:59:12 AM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12553
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

Is it me, or are people a half-inch from saying..................................BRAD H WAS RIGHT!

14-3

I was critical of the McCarthy pick. I was and still am of the belief that Darnold will get anyone to the promised land. Time will tell. If he looks good in a playoff win I will probably reconsider. Getting to the playoffs means Jack to me if they just get bounced immediately. Having said all that I like Darnold as a player. I just question his big game ability.

We didn't re-sign Darnold because what we had already seen with Cousins. Big money QB who excels in regular season and doesn't elevate play when the chips are down. Rams loss was on everyone but DET choke was all on Darnold. 2024 was fools gold. Easy schedule with probably 3-4 quality wins.

Biggest mistake(in hindsight) was not telling Jones he had a chance at being #1 QB. $15M per year would have been the bargain of the year.

Well, apparently Seattle bought that fools gold you speak of. At 8-3, my guess is they are very happy about it.

I'm not saying he is bad. He's a top 12 QB. Just hasn't stepped up in huge games. He had a huge game this year and threw 4 picks.

Darnold has had 3 big games in his career and he has choked in all 3 of those games. 0-3.

I honestly like Darnold. I have many posts saying I wanted to re-sign him during regular season last year.

But, right now, he is Cousins lite. Because Cousins actually won a playoff game with a clutch OT drive. On the road.

Post #: 1650