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RE: General Vikes Talkk - 12/3/2025 1:24:56 PM

Bill Johanesen

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Outside of drawing additional coverage, Jefferson has been a non-factor in his two playoff games. Assuming playoff defenses continue to do so, we need good #2 and #3 WRs. Addison and Nailor are mostly that. But with JJ averaging $43 million the next 3 years, I wonder how much the regime is willing to commit to the WR corps. The good thing is there might just be one year (2028) where they are both high cap hits.

Hope they are inclined to extend Addison say by this time next year, but will "Let's Get Paid" make extreme demands knowing he can test free agency?

And yes, do they trust the guy to not get another suspension? Because a transgression could be worse than wrist slaps from here on out.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 12/3/2025 1:28:28 PM >

Post #: 1776

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 12/3/2025 2:41:31 PM

Lars

Posts: 11498
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Midi-chlorians
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Talk of the SB is the crux of it. The Lions game was one of the most important games in decades because a win would have meant HFA. It was monumental. Then Darnold put up a choke job for the ages.

Still, I was thinking ok Darnold pissed away HFA but if he plays just average vs the Rams he can at least be in the conversation about who will QB the team. Of course, he shit the bed. Again.

That was it. The end. It became crystal clear Darnold did not and does not have what it takes. Can you imagine how bad he would have freaked out if the team magically made it to the SB? He'd probably still be frozen in the locker room.

It was great news the team was going to go in another direction, because Darnold would NEVER be the guy. There are many unknown QBs out there that are not proven chokers. Darnold was, so cross him off the list.

Against an absolutely decimated Lions defense.

They had given up 31, 48, 17 (to a 5 win Bears team) and 34 the previous 4 weeks.

We scored 9 points.

Then the Lions gave up 45 the next week in their only Playoff game.

BINGO for Bill and David!

_____________________________

<this space for rent>

Post #: 1777

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 12/3/2025 2:53:54 PM

Mark Anderson

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Joined: 9/1/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

Guys that shouldn't see the field next year for the Vikings:

Hock - barely makes the needle move
Jones - too hurt
Kelly - life at hand
Murphy - what a terrible extension. PFF ranked 172 CB
Addison - trade before he demands more cash
Smith - retire
1 of Hargravde/Allen - cut

Guy that shouldn't see the stadium for the Vikings:

KAM - send him packing and get a real personnel guy in there.

This all looks good.

I would release Hargrave right now. He can sign with a contender if anyone wants him.

Promote Taimani and let him get some snaps at NT the rest of the season.

< Message edited by Mark Anderson -- 12/3/2025 3:02:39 PM >

Post #: 1778

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 12/3/2025 3:28:10 PM

Arlowe84

Posts: 421
Joined: 9/30/2019
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We probably have the slowest combo RB/TE room in the league

And it may not be close

Some explosive players from those areas would do wonders for the offense
Im sure defenses can do things they cant vs others since they know no one is breaking a long one

Post #: 1779

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 12/3/2025 3:32:55 PM

Bill Jandro

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Brosmer targeted Hock a lot.

Hock also fell down a lot.

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Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 1780

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 12/3/2025 4:09:05 PM

TJSweens

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Brosmer targeted Hock a lot.

Hock also fell down a lot.

Probably because falling down is less embarrassing than dropping it.

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"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 1781

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 12/3/2025 4:31:48 PM

Daniel Lee Young

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33 total trades by KAM since he took over…

How many roster “sticks” past 2 years of roster time?

Almost zero..

Hockendrop, and who else?

< Message edited by Daniel Lee Young -- 12/3/2025 4:39:58 PM >

Post #: 1782

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 12/3/2025 4:50:21 PM

Phil Riewer

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From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

33 total trades by KAM since he took over…

How many roster “sticks” past 2 years of roster time?

Almost zero..

Hockendrop, and who else?

Cam 3 times?

_____________________________

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KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 1783

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 12/4/2025 7:38:17 AM 1 votes

Murph

Posts: 2088
Joined: 4/20/2008
From: PNW
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

Guys that shouldn't see the field next year for the Vikings:

Hock - barely makes the needle move
Jones - too hurt
Kelly - life at hand
Murphy - what a terrible extension. PFF ranked 172 CB
Addison - trade before he demands more cash
Smith - retire
1 of Hargravde/Allen - cut

Guy that shouldn't see the stadium for the Vikings:

KAM - send him packing and get a real personnel guy in there.

I like this but think it's missing one big piece.

Fire KOC!

All I care about is winning a Super Bowl.

Like Darnold last season, KOC this season has proven to me he is not a Super Bowl caliber coach.

He refuses to adapt his scheme and playing calling to the strength of his players or team and he is the worst play caller in the NFL currently. We are more predictable on offense now then we were with Zimmer and Company.

Hate to say it but if I'm the Wilfs it's rebuild time. This time do it like the Bears did a real rebuild not this competitive rebuild BS.

_____________________________

Hey Wilf's, let's build a "Perennial Super Bowl contender" not a "perennial playoff contender".

Post #: 1784

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 12/4/2025 8:37:11 AM 1 votes

Brad H

Posts: 24664
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lars

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Talk of the SB is the crux of it. The Lions game was one of the most important games in decades because a win would have meant HFA. It was monumental. Then Darnold put up a choke job for the ages.

Still, I was thinking ok Darnold pissed away HFA but if he plays just average vs the Rams he can at least be in the conversation about who will QB the team. Of course, he shit the bed. Again.

That was it. The end. It became crystal clear Darnold did not and does not have what it takes. Can you imagine how bad he would have freaked out if the team magically made it to the SB? He'd probably still be frozen in the locker room.

It was great news the team was going to go in another direction, because Darnold would NEVER be the guy. There are many unknown QBs out there that are not proven chokers. Darnold was, so cross him off the list.

Against an absolutely decimated Lions defense.

They had given up 31, 48, 17 (to a 5 win Bears team) and 34 the previous 4 weeks.

We scored 9 points.

Then the Lions gave up 45 the next week in their only Playoff game.

BINGO for Bill and David!

You guys can't seem to stop talking about Darnold.

< Message edited by Brad H -- 12/4/2025 8:39:06 AM >

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Defense starts at the corners!

Post #: 1785

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 12/4/2025 11:07:34 AM

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9877
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

Guys that shouldn't see the field next year for the Vikings:

Hock - barely makes the needle move
Jones - too hurt
Kelly - life at hand
Murphy - what a terrible extension. PFF ranked 172 CB
Addison - trade before he demands more cash
Smith - retire
1 of Hargravde/Allen - cut

Guy that shouldn't see the stadium for the Vikings:

KAM - send him packing and get a real personnel guy in there.

.
okay, but you have to show the cap hits....

hock --- we save $9mm
jones --- we save $8mm
kelly --- we save $9mm
murphy --- it costs $13mm dead cap - murph sucked in 2023 - i knew this was a mistake
addison --- it's a wash, but where are you going to find another wr that good that cheep?
smith --- it costs $6mm...always been a ton of dead cap with smith - go figure....
allen --- we save $4mmm
hargrave --- we save $11mmm

fire kam - it costs the wilfs a few bucks, but the team can only gain from his departure

tell o'connell someone else calls plays for the rest of this season - he can quit if he wants

Those are not cap hits but rather mostly cap savings.

Kelly - $12.1 savings on OverTheCap ($0 guaranteed money, just salary, roster bonus, and workout bonus).

Smith will be a UFA after the season but yes his current cap hits are void year cap... right now to the tune of another 3 years and $10.6 million depending on what site is accessed. Stuck paying it one way or the other.

Murphy - keeping him around another year then cutting him changes a $10.2 mil cap hit to $10.8 cap savings.

Addison - I think the idea was to get return value for him while he still has another year on the rookie contract. After that, with free agency looming he probably won't be traded. So we're faced with agreeing to his terms or seeing him walk w/o any return. With WR salaries, I doubt they franchise him. Edit: I see Jeff explained his (different) rationale.

spotrac has kelly (2026) at $12.1mm cap hit with a $3.4mm dead cap - that's how i came to that number....

we most likely won't retain nailor, so cutting addison would leave a big hole...i think addison is better than some here - he's dropped a few recently, but so has jeff and hock - i think the whole team is just down on themselves....

we have to decide if we're going to bring in a qb next season that makes us competitive, or blow the whole thing up...it would be great if mccarthy could catch a spark the remainder of 2025....

someone else has to call plays for the rest of 2025, otherwise we'll never know what we have....

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the journey...is paradise.

Post #: 1786

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 12/4/2025 2:30:09 PM

Lars

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Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Midi-chlorians
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

You guys can't seem to stop talking about Darnold.

Now, THAT'S some funny shit!

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Post #: 1787

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 12/4/2025 2:32:29 PM

Bill Johanesen

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someone else has to call plays for the rest of 2025, otherwise we'll never know what we have....

Doubt the playcalling is changing. Plus any QB that we hope can lead the team to the SB has to be better than historically bad... which is the lowest bar there is. So it is up to JJM to improve in these last five games. If he is still bottom of the barrel based on the last 25 years, then you have to pursue another QB. Keep him around in 2026 and let him compete. Maybe he spends a month in the desert at a yogi guru camp or something.

Post #: 1788

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 12/5/2025 9:47:49 AM

Jeff Jesser

Posts: 20101
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

someone else has to call plays for the rest of 2025, otherwise we'll never know what we have....

Doubt the playcalling is changing. Plus any QB that we hope can lead the team to the SB has to be better than historically bad... which is the lowest bar there is. So it is up to JJM to improve in these last five games. If he is still bottom of the barrel based on the last 25 years, then you have to pursue another QB. Keep him around in 2026 and let him compete. Maybe he spends a month in the desert at a yogi guru camp or something.

The really telling thing, for me, is that they keep changing the excuses for why he's flailing. First it was injuries, then it was his footwork and now they've dumbed the playbook down because it's 'all a mental challenge'. Dude's been in the system for almost 2 full years now.

Post #: 1789

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 12/5/2025 3:51:21 PM

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9877
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline

.
i questioned these extensions when kwesi made them...these three players are all injury prone, and have demonstrated that every year they've been here...they all come with big 'dead cap' money which could tie them to the team through 2026....

Aaron Jones signed a 2025-26, 2-year, $20,000,000 contract with the Minnesota Vikings, including $8,000,000 signing bonus, $13,500,000 guaranteed. - way too much money for an undersized, aged, injury-prone rb - draft a rb in the 4th in '26....

Andrew Van Ginkel signed a 2026, 1-year, $23,000,000 contract with the Minnesota Vikings, including $10,000,000 signing bonus, $22,440,000 guaranteed. I like him, but he's injury-prone, not great against the run, $23mm seen like a lot for him - this deal makes greenard feel his underpaid....

Josh Oliver signed a 3-year, $23,250,000 contract with the Minnesota Vikings, including $7,700,000 signing bonus, $19,745,000 guaranteed. Everytime Oliver touches the ball, he loses yards...he's strictly a blocking te, which means we need to add a receiving te on the other side....

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.

Post #: 1790

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 12/5/2025 8:18:31 PM

stfrank

Posts: 12539
Joined: 7/22/2007
From: Twin Cities
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

someone else has to call plays for the rest of 2025, otherwise we'll never know what we have....

Doubt the playcalling is changing. Plus any QB that we hope can lead the team to the SB has to be better than historically bad... which is the lowest bar there is. So it is up to JJM to improve in these last five games. If he is still bottom of the barrel based on the last 25 years, then you have to pursue another QB. Keep him around in 2026 and let him compete. Maybe he spends a month in the desert at a yogi guru camp or something.

The really telling thing, for me, is that they keep changing the excuses for why he's flailing. First it was injuries, then it was his footwork and now they've dumbed the playbook down because it's 'all a mental challenge'. Dude's been in the system for almost 2 full years now.

Sort of like our O-line, they can't seem to coach him up even though he is a top draft pick. The more I watch the more I think our biggest problem is poor talent eval and close behind that is not coaching to the players strengths.

Post #: 1791

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 12/6/2025 8:31:02 AM

TJSweens

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Joined: 7/16/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser
The really telling thing, for me, is that they keep changing the excuses for why he's flailing. First it was injuries, then it was his footwork and now they've dumbed the playbook down because it's 'all a mental challenge'. Dude's been in the system for almost 2 full years now.

The issue with JJ is two pronged. 1.They set him up to fail. 2. He failed miserably.

The Vikings screwed up the off-season to epic proportions. They had a plan. They knew McCarthy's mechanical issues when they drafted him. Last year was supposed to be dedicated to McCarthy working on mechanical issues and preparing for this year. That plan got derailed by JJ's knee injury. They weren't about to resign Darnold at 3 years and $100M, so rather than delay the plan another year, they decided to try rebuilding his mechanics on the fly. At the same time, KOC decide he was going to force feed him the whole playbook. Now at same time he going through his progressions, he is counting his steps, thinking about how to set his and not slingshot his back leg. KOC also does clever things like call plays in crucial situations that call on McCarthy to make the kinds of throws he is not good at.

The Vikings should have sat down with Daniel Jones and told him he would be the starter if he resigned here. Same scenario as Sam. Have a good year and get paid. That's all he was looking for. Then they could have spent the year overhauling JJ's mechanics and repeating them until they were second nature.

McCarthy for his part has just been plain awful. He had obstacles to success, but good QB's overcome obstacles. JJ has shown no signs of being able to overcome obstacles or that he is a good QB.

KOC needs to take a chapter from Sean Payton's book. Bo Nix is a very limited QB, but Payton has schemed an offense that is heavy on the short and intermediate routes that Nix can execute. Payton knows Nix's limitations and doesn't force him into situations where he is likely to fail.

< Message edited by TJSweens -- 12/6/2025 8:32:09 AM >

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 1792

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 12/6/2025 9:35:07 AM

timz

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Interesting. https://www.facebook.com/watch?v=1898339537423401

Post #: 1793

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 12/6/2025 12:06:46 PM

Jeff Jesser

Posts: 20101
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: offline

Tim and Frank, you both make excellent points. The player development piece is uber frustrating. Just look at who we drafted, how they did in Minny and how they are doing now:

Blackmon
Cleveland
Ingram (whether you think they are legit or not, PFF has him rated #2 guard this year)
Bradbury

Post #: 1794

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 12/6/2025 12:55:04 PM

TJSweens

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Cleveland is respectable in pass block and substandard run blocking.
Ingram is #4 in run blocking and #42 in pass blocking and #6 overall.
Bradbury still straight up sucks at #30 among centers.

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"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 1795

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 12/6/2025 1:07:55 PM

Jeff Jesser

Posts: 20101
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: offline

There's also the CB that just won DP of the month that we traded for with Booth (another epic bust by KAM)

Post #: 1796

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 12/6/2025 1:38:07 PM

TJSweens

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Joined: 7/16/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

There's also the CB that just won DP of the month that we traded for with Booth (another epic bust by KAM)

Yep. Every draft bust adds another over priced free agent contract.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 1797

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 12/6/2025 1:40:57 PM

stfrank

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Joined: 7/22/2007
From: Twin Cities
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

There's also the CB that just won DP of the month that we traded for with Booth (another epic bust by KAM)

Yep. Every draft bust adds another over priced free agent contract.

KAM better be gone before the upcoming draft so he can't set us back any further.

Post #: 1798

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 12/6/2025 1:42:48 PM

Jeff Jesser

Posts: 20101
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: stfrank

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

There's also the CB that just won DP of the month that we traded for with Booth (another epic bust by KAM)

Yep. Every draft bust adds another over priced free agent contract.

KAM better be gone before the upcoming draft so he can't set us back any further.

Just a guess on my part but they (the Wilf's) make him fire Grigson and bring a new "football guy".

Post #: 1799

RE: General Vikes Talkk - 12/6/2025 3:07:32 PM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 32004
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: stfrank

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

There's also the CB that just won DP of the month that we traded for with Booth (another epic bust by KAM)

Yep. Every draft bust adds another over priced free agent contract.

KAM better be gone before the upcoming draft so he can't set us back any further.

Just a guess on my part but they (the Wilf's) make him fire Grigson and bring a new "football guy".

The defense has made good moves. Dallas Turner, Redmond, Rodriguez, Williams, and Rodgers have all been pretty good on defense. Hargrove and Allen have also been good pickups. I think the offense really has to get figured out but he has to play out the year. Things aren’t as bad as they look. There are very good pieces on both sides of the ball.

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KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

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