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RE: General Twins Talk - 8/7/2026 9:14:54 AM   
Phil Riewer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

It's just amazing how in baseball any team can win in the postseason at any time. Or how things turn on a dime. Yankees blowing up in the 5th inning in Game 5. Blue Jays just inches from winning last October, a couple of times. Yamamoto coming in on zero days rest with the WS on the line because they had nobody else. Rojas and Pages (cheap players) making plays of their lives.

And you have people like the smallish-market Padres GM who is not one of the ballless wonders. He created an expensive roster, but has gone through like 3 ownership challenges, and has no prospects to speak of but puts more chips in and adds two good starters at the deadline to go along with King and a lights-out bullpen.



But baseball is ruined cry the Phils. We must have a cap he bellows forth. So how come the Mets didn't compete? After all, THEY were first in player spending. How come the rich Yankees are not even leading their division and some two-bit team is?

Fact is, baseball is doing great. And the owners know it. Revenue sharing has never been better! Not satisfied, they believe it's the opportune time to put a limit on spending money on those pesky players. Have a work stoppage until they see the money stops flowing into their wallets. But it better be a long stoppage because, again, LAs aged team could really use it.


Ruined by me? I am not the one that will be stopping play---that will be the players union or the owners. If the Twins are competitive I watch a little more.

I guess you conveniently changed topic on it so many times you don't know where you are at. Now it is adding owners not LAD profited/profiting 200-500 million a year......

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 8/7/2026 9:43:55 AM >


_____________________________

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Post #: 676
RE: General Twins Talk - 8/7/2026 9:44:18 AM   
Phil Riewer


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From: MN
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Culpepper promoted to the big leagues on Matt's Bday?

_____________________________

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KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq
Post #: 677
RE: General Twins Talk - 8/7/2026 9:52:16 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 34034
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

It's just amazing how in baseball any team can win in the postseason at any time. Or how things turn on a dime. Yankees blowing up in the 5th inning in Game 5. Blue Jays just inches from winning last October, a couple of times. Yamamoto coming in on zero days rest with the WS on the line because they had nobody else. Rojas and Pages (cheap players) making plays of their lives.

And you have people like the smallish-market Padres GM who is not one of the ballless wonders. He created an expensive roster, but has gone through like 3 ownership challenges, and has no prospects to speak of but puts more chips in and adds two good starters at the deadline to go along with King and a lights-out bullpen.



But baseball is ruined cry the Phils. We must have a cap he bellows forth. So how come the Mets didn't compete? After all, THEY were first in player spending. How come the rich Yankees are not even leading their division and some two-bit team is?

Fact is, baseball is doing great. And the owners know it. Revenue sharing has never been better! Not satisfied, they believe it's the opportune time to put a limit on spending money on those pesky players. Have a work stoppage until they see the money stops flowing into their wallets. But it better be a long stoppage because, again, LAs aged team could really use it.


Ruined by me? I am not the one that will be stopping play---that will be the players union or the owners. If the Twins are competitive I watch a little more.

I guess you conveniently changed topic on it so many times you don't know where you are at. Now it is adding owners not LAD profited/profiting 200-500 million a year......


Again, not changing topics (pure projection on your part) but just piling on. Now I'm going to assemble my notes and turn them into a best-selling book. It needs a title though.

How Greedy Owners and Fans Like Phil Want To Ruin Baseball By Pretending It's 1950.
Post #: 678
RE: General Twins Talk - 8/7/2026 9:53:07 AM   
twinsfan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

Happy birthday, Matt..

Thanks Dan! At least one person remembered my birthday.

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Post #: 679
RE: General Twins Talk - 8/7/2026 9:58:45 AM   
TJSweens


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"It's just amazing how in baseball any team can win in the postseason at any time."

Give me a break. Data shows top-market teams are exponentially more likely to advance deep into October. They are about six times more likely to reach the World Series and nine times more to win it compared to mid and small market teams over a ten-year span. Large-market teams can also sustain success more easily. They can absorb player evaluation mistakes, high-priced injuries, or bloated contracts. Small-market teams rely on small competitive windows before facing having to blow it up. Look at the Royals last WS team. That team was dismantled within 2 years of their championship.

That definitely isn't the case in the other major sports, that have the revenue sharing/ cap/ floor set up.

_____________________________

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RE: General Twins Talk - 8/7/2026 10:01:12 AM   
TJSweens


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quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

Happy birthday, Matt..

Thanks Dan! At least one person remembered my birthday.

Happy birthday Matt. I never see birthdays, since they were moved to the bottom. I usually rely on you wishing someone happy birthday.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."
Post #: 681
RE: General Twins Talk - 8/7/2026 10:42:18 AM   
Bill Johanesen


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https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/why-mlb-market-size-isnt-an-excuse-for-cheap-teams-just-look-at-the-small-market-padres-and-manny-machado/

We could keep going. Those weren't cherry-picked examples. Joe Sheehan in his newsletter back in late January went through a large number of players who stayed in town. Of the $200 million-plus deals in baseball history, it broke down with 13 signing to a large-market team, 10 to a middle-market team and (gasp!) eight to a small-market team. He also went through a list of the top 33 by players this century and showed the journey of each through the league. There is no pattern whatsoever of wide-scale small-to-large market movement. There just isn't.
Post #: 682
RE: General Twins Talk - 8/7/2026 10:46:13 AM   
Bill Johanesen


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https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/why-major-league-baseball-does-not-need-a-salary-cap-for-the-sake-of-parity/

Finals appearances
How about teams that didn't necessarily win the big game/series?

In the 2000s, 21 of the 30 MLB teams have won their league's pennant. The Red Sox (four), Giants (four), Yankees (four), Cardinals (four), Astros (four), Tigers (two), Phillies (two), Rays (two), Rangers (two), Royals (two) and Mets (two) have done it multiple times. While we're here, again note the lack of correlation between market size and multiple finals appearances.

In that same time period, the NHL has seen 23 teams in the finals with 10 having gone multiple times. The Devils, Lightning and Penguins lead the way with four each.

Over in the NBA, holy smokes, man. Five teams have been to the NBA Finals at least five times in the 2000s (Lakers (seven), Heat (six), Spurs (five), Warriors (five), Cavaliers (five)). Four more teams have been twice and seven teams have been once, leaving 14 that haven't been at all. Is this the parity the salary-cap hawks want in MLB?

The Super Bowl has seen the Patriots nine times in the 2000s with the Giants, Steelers, Seahawks and Rams each having been there three times. Eight other teams have been there twice with seven teams having made one appearance. That's 20 teams that have made it and 12 that haven't.

By this measure, either the NHL or Major League Baseball have the most parity with the NFL close behind. The NBA isn't close.
Post #: 683
RE: General Twins Talk - 8/7/2026 10:48:22 AM   
Bill Johanesen


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Granted that last article is aging, but the points remain. And it has a great conclusion:

Here are the final payrolls from the lowest-five salaried teams in 2021:

Rays, $76.86M
Marlins, $60.88M
Orioles, $59.05M
Guardians, $53.01M
Pirates, $50.33M

How would a salary cap have changed things for these teams in 2021? Would the Pirates have actually doubled their payroll just because the Yankees and Dodgers and Mets weren't allowed to spend more? Would the Rays have added almost $30 million just to get up against that cap? Be honest.



So once again, get these cheap asses to pony up and try to make a go of it then look at a cap. And that's not to 'protect' the Dodgers' roster. Any agreement will almost assuredly be phased in over time.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 8/7/2026 10:51:55 AM >
Post #: 684
RE: General Twins Talk - 8/7/2026 10:57:55 AM   
Bill Johanesen


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With all the NFL parity and a cap, how come the small market teams in these lists haven't won a SB?

Teams That Have Never Appeared in a Super Bowl
Cleveland Browns
Detroit Lions
Houston Texans
Jacksonville Jaguars

Teams That Lost Their Super Bowl Appearances
Minnesota Vikings (0–4)
Buffalo Bills (0–4)
Cincinnati Bengals (0–3)
Carolina Panthers (0–2)
Atlanta Falcons (0–2)
Los Angeles Chargers (0–1)
Tennessee Titans (0–1)
Arizona Cardinals (0–1)
Post #: 685
RE: General Twins Talk - 8/7/2026 11:00:32 AM   
Bill Johanesen


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The NBA has a cap and luxury tax yet what's up with the small market teams? That's around a third of the league!

Teams Without an NBA Title
Brooklyn Nets (Lost Finals in 2002, 2003)
Charlotte Hornets
Indiana Pacers (Lost Finals in 2000, 2025)
LA Clippers
Memphis Grizzlies
Minnesota Timberwolves
New Orleans Pelicans
Orlando Magic (Lost Finals in 1995, 2009)
Phoenix Suns (Lost Finals in 1976, 1993, 2021)
Utah Jazz (Lost Finals in 1997, 1998)
Post #: 686
RE: General Twins Talk - 8/7/2026 11:13:36 AM   
Bill Johanesen


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The fact is this idea of a cap creating competitive balance in baseball is a fairy tale. The facts from the NFL and NBA show a cap has no correlation.

All one has to do is think about the reasons fans on this board have posted for the Vikings and TWolves not winning:

- FAs want to go to attractive markets.
- Well, they won because of Brady, etc.
- Red McCombs is a cheap bastard.
- The owners need to sell.
- The owners suck.
- The owners won't spend enough.
- The owners should have never hired GM X.
- The GM sucks.
- The GM doesn't know how to stay within the cap.
- Our arms are tied with the cap.
- Player X was paid too much.
- The coach sucks.
- The manager is an idiot.
- We'll never win with X.
- The draft is a bust.
- The first rounder is a bust.
- QB X sucks.
- Fire the GM.
- Tear the whole thing down.
- The stadium roof caved in!
Post #: 687
RE: General Twins Talk - 8/7/2026 11:14:36 AM   
twinsfan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

Happy birthday, Matt..

Thanks Dan! At least one person remembered my birthday.

Happy birthday Matt. I never see birthdays, since they were moved to the bottom. I usually rely on you wishing someone happy birthday.

I bet you're surprised I didn't wish myself a happy birthday.

_____________________________

Wokewashed
Post #: 688
RE: General Twins Talk - 8/7/2026 11:32:15 AM   
Phil Riewer


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From: MN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

Happy birthday, Matt..

Thanks Dan! At least one person remembered my birthday.

Happy birthday Matt. I never see birthdays, since they were moved to the bottom. I usually rely on you wishing someone happy birthday.

I bet you're surprised I didn't wish myself a happy birthday.


Did you sing Happy Birthday to your self this morning?

_____________________________

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KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq
Post #: 689
RE: General Twins Talk - 8/7/2026 11:44:43 AM   
David Levine


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From: Las Vegas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Granted that last article is aging, but the points remain. And it has a great conclusion:

Here are the final payrolls from the lowest-five salaried teams in 2021:

Rays, $76.86M
Marlins, $60.88M
Orioles, $59.05M
Guardians, $53.01M
Pirates, $50.33M

How would a salary cap have changed things for these teams in 2021? Would the Pirates have actually doubled their payroll just because the Yankees and Dodgers and Mets weren't allowed to spend more? Would the Rays have added almost $30 million just to get up against that cap? Be honest.



So once again, get these cheap asses to pony up and try to make a go of it then look at a cap. And that's not to 'protect' the Dodgers' roster. Any agreement will almost assuredly be phased in over time.


Everybody that wants a salary cap also wants a salary floor - just like the NFL and NBA.
Post #: 690
RE: General Twins Talk - 8/7/2026 11:47:51 AM   
David Levine


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From: Las Vegas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

The NBA has a cap and luxury tax yet what's up with the small market teams? That's around a third of the league!

Teams Without an NBA Title
Brooklyn Nets (Lost Finals in 2002, 2003)
Charlotte Hornets
Indiana Pacers (Lost Finals in 2000, 2025)
LA Clippers
Memphis Grizzlies
Minnesota Timberwolves
New Orleans Pelicans
Orlando Magic (Lost Finals in 1995, 2009)
Phoenix Suns (Lost Finals in 1976, 1993, 2021)
Utah Jazz (Lost Finals in 1997, 1998)


The soft cap plus restrictions is absolutely working in the NBA.

We've had 8 different title teams the last 8 years. We have teams like OKC and San Antonio well ahead of the massive markets - like LA.

The restrictions are no longer allowing teams like the Warriors to buy their way to the top. Even Steve Ballmer, who could basically buy the league, can no longer exploit his financial advantages.

The league has probably never had more parity than it does now.
Post #: 691
RE: General Twins Talk - 8/7/2026 12:24:52 PM   
Bill Johanesen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

The NBA has a cap and luxury tax yet what's up with the small market teams? That's around a third of the league!

Teams Without an NBA Title
Brooklyn Nets (Lost Finals in 2002, 2003)
Charlotte Hornets
Indiana Pacers (Lost Finals in 2000, 2025)
LA Clippers
Memphis Grizzlies
Minnesota Timberwolves
New Orleans Pelicans
Orlando Magic (Lost Finals in 1995, 2009)
Phoenix Suns (Lost Finals in 1976, 1993, 2021)
Utah Jazz (Lost Finals in 1997, 1998)


The soft cap plus restrictions is absolutely working in the NBA.

We've had 8 different title teams the last 8 years. We have teams like OKC and San Antonio well ahead of the massive markets - like LA.

The restrictions are no longer allowing teams like the Warriors to buy their way to the top. Even Steve Ballmer, who could basically buy the league, can no longer exploit his financial advantages.

The league has probably never had more parity than it does now.


Yet still a third of the league has still not won a single championship. Or for teams like my Wizards/Bullets... it's been 50 years. And a giant market team just won the title.

But you are getting at restrictions. The NBA cap was established in 1984. And yes, the NBA has created ever increasing and pretty severe restrictions because apparently a cap and luxury tax wasn't enough.

The MLB has some restrictions as well. For example the Dodgers were bumped 10 places lower in the draft stemming from hitting some luxury tax threshold. I don't know what other restrictions exist.

Anyway, I listed the NFL and NBA stuff because they have a cap. It's clear the three sports are quite different. In fact, it's probably to my detriment to list them because they are usually heavily dependent on hitting it big in the draft or getting just two stars or a great QB. Whereas it takes baseball players years to develop and who knows what the draft bust rates are. Real MLB fans may know but I don't.

You are basically saying a cap wasn't enough. IMO the 'small market - need a cap' argument isn't the magic answer. Don't know how it will shake out but a cap may end up being just the first step (added restrictions later).
Post #: 692
RE: General Twins Talk - 8/7/2026 12:31:41 PM   
Bill Johanesen


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By default, if a league creates enough restrictions to hamstring whatever they want in the name of parity it's impossible to refute the ability to achieve that desired outcome.
Post #: 693
RE: General Twins Talk - 8/7/2026 12:49:15 PM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

By default, if a league creates enough restrictions to hamstring whatever they want in the name of parity it's impossible to refute the ability to achieve that desired outcome.


And the restrictions are about leveling the playing field. Now you need to be savvy (OKC) and a bit lucky (SA) to actually build a winning franchise. You can no longer buy one.
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RE: General Twins Talk - 8/7/2026 1:22:47 PM   
TJSweens


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Last 10 world series teams and their greater metropolitan areas.

2025 Los Angeles - 12.9 million vs Toronto 7.1 million
2024 Los Angeles vs Yankees 23.5 million
2023 Texas (Dallas/Ft Worth) 8.4M vs Arizona (Phoenix) 5.19M
2022 Houston 7.9M vs Philadelphia 6.33M
2021 Houston vs Atlanta 6.48M
2020 Los Angeles vs Tampa 3.42 M
2019 Houston vs Washington 6.46M
2018 LA vs Boston 8.4 million
2017 Houston vs LA
2016 Chicago 9.6M vs Cleveland 2.16M

Totals

LA second largest in America 5 times
Houston fifth largest 4 times
Other major markets at one each... New York, Chicago, Boston, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Toronto, Dallas/FW, Phoenix, Washington DC

That means that out of 20 World series slots in the last 10 years, 18 were taken by major market teams...but yeah there is total parity in MLB.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."
Post #: 695
RE: General Twins Talk - 8/7/2026 5:03:08 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 34034
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Last 10 world series teams and their greater metropolitan areas.

2025 Los Angeles - 12.9 million vs Toronto 7.1 million
2024 Los Angeles vs Yankees 23.5 million
2023 Texas (Dallas/Ft Worth) 8.4M vs Arizona (Phoenix) 5.19M
2022 Houston 7.9M vs Philadelphia 6.33M
2021 Houston vs Atlanta 6.48M
2020 Los Angeles vs Tampa 3.42 M
2019 Houston vs Washington 6.46M
2018 LA vs Boston 8.4 million
2017 Houston vs LA
2016 Chicago 9.6M vs Cleveland 2.16M

Totals

LA second largest in America 5 times
Houston fifth largest 4 times
Other major markets at one each... New York, Chicago, Boston, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Toronto, Dallas/FW, Phoenix, Washington DC

That means that out of 20 World series slots in the last 10 years, 18 were taken by major market teams...but yeah there is total parity in MLB.


Yeah, that was my premise all along

And in those last 10 years, the cheap owners get away with pure grift.
Post #: 696
RE: General Twins Talk - 8/7/2026 5:13:11 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 81517
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Last 10 world series teams and their greater metropolitan areas.

2025 Los Angeles - 12.9 million vs Toronto 7.1 million
2024 Los Angeles vs Yankees 23.5 million
2023 Texas (Dallas/Ft Worth) 8.4M vs Arizona (Phoenix) 5.19M
2022 Houston 7.9M vs Philadelphia 6.33M
2021 Houston vs Atlanta 6.48M
2020 Los Angeles vs Tampa 3.42 M
2019 Houston vs Washington 6.46M
2018 LA vs Boston 8.4 million
2017 Houston vs LA
2016 Chicago 9.6M vs Cleveland 2.16M

Totals

LA second largest in America 5 times
Houston fifth largest 4 times
Other major markets at one each... New York, Chicago, Boston, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Toronto, Dallas/FW, Phoenix, Washington DC

That means that out of 20 World series slots in the last 10 years, 18 were taken by major market teams...but yeah there is total parity in MLB.


Yeah, that was my premise all along

And in those last 10 years, the cheap owners get away with pure grift.


Again, why we need a salary floor.

NFL has a hard cap and you essentially need to spend 90% of that cap (its weird, because it takes 4 year groupings into account).

NBA has a softer top end of the cap (which is why all the apron penalties have been added), but all teams need to spend 90% of the cap every year. And if an owner cheaps out and spends less, the financial difference (the shortfall) is paid directly to the players currently on that team's roster.

So if MLB ever enacts a salary cap, they absolutely need a floor as well.
Post #: 697
RE: General Twins Talk - 8/7/2026 5:14:16 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 34034
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

By default, if a league creates enough restrictions to hamstring whatever they want in the name of parity it's impossible to refute the ability to achieve that desired outcome.


And the restrictions are about leveling the playing field. Now you need to be savvy (OKC) and a bit lucky (SA) to actually build a winning franchise. You can no longer buy one.


Since 2020, OKC has picked in the lottery 5 of 7 years. Savvy played second fiddle there. And in the other two years the first rounders were just outside the lottery at 17 and 20.

SA is beyond lucky, whether it's Robinson, Duncan, or Wemby.

Wasn't it you who said a few times that it's really strange certain teams get the right ping-pong balls and #1 picks... suggesting shenanigans?


Up to and including this year, it's been tank and hope for the right ping pong balls. What a joke. So much for the vaunted cap and restrictions!
Post #: 698
RE: General Twins Talk - 8/7/2026 5:19:31 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 34034
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Last 10 world series teams and their greater metropolitan areas.

2025 Los Angeles - 12.9 million vs Toronto 7.1 million
2024 Los Angeles vs Yankees 23.5 million
2023 Texas (Dallas/Ft Worth) 8.4M vs Arizona (Phoenix) 5.19M
2022 Houston 7.9M vs Philadelphia 6.33M
2021 Houston vs Atlanta 6.48M
2020 Los Angeles vs Tampa 3.42 M
2019 Houston vs Washington 6.46M
2018 LA vs Boston 8.4 million
2017 Houston vs LA
2016 Chicago 9.6M vs Cleveland 2.16M

Totals

LA second largest in America 5 times
Houston fifth largest 4 times
Other major markets at one each... New York, Chicago, Boston, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Toronto, Dallas/FW, Phoenix, Washington DC

That means that out of 20 World series slots in the last 10 years, 18 were taken by major market teams...but yeah there is total parity in MLB.


Yeah, that was my premise all along

And in those last 10 years, the cheap owners get away with pure grift.


Again, why we need a salary floor.

NFL has a hard cap and you essentially need to spend 90% of that cap (its weird, because it takes 4 year groupings into account).

NBA has a softer top end of the cap (which is why all the apron penalties have been added), but all teams need to spend 90% of the cap every year. And if an owner cheaps out and spends less, the financial difference (the shortfall) is paid directly to the players currently on that team's roster.

So if MLB ever enacts a salary cap, they absolutely need a floor as well.


I'm totally down with a floor that is 90% of the cap.

Spitballing, but if there is a cap there will be a quote/unquote cap floor that is mere window dressing. Some BS minimum to keep the Pirates and A's owners from going suicidal. Maybe a couple of other owners.
Post #: 699
RE: General Twins Talk - 8/7/2026 5:33:05 PM   
Bill Johanesen


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Projecting the negotiations for fun:

The minimum wage owners demand a cap, say yes to a floor with some bogus number, and more revenue sharing. They will be opposed by the big owners (real floor and less revenue sharing). And the players who say a cap is a non-starter, DOA.

If so, I hope at that point the latter groups walks away until the cheapo's cave as they see their wallets and purses dry up.

Go with a cap, a real floor, and less revenue sharing. Time for these ma and pa outfits to join the modern world of professional sports. And bravo to the GMs who use prospects (the currency/capital thing).

....

Got into this MLB mess this week and find it fascinating. What's striking is I didn't know how high the cap floor was for the NBA and NFL until DL stated the number. I've been thinking 40% of the cap being bantered about. 90% would rock. Rather than try to give the grifters time to build their business as it should be by actually pumping profits back into the teams... and for the PLAYERS not stadium upgrades and rabbit hole accounts, a 90% floor would accelerate that whole process.

F yeah. Let's get the threepeat out of the way (ha hopefully), have a long stoppage in the hope of a fourpeat or 3 out of 4 year thing, and end with a 90% cap floor. Or - off the cuff - even just 75% (you guys would know better what a good figure would be, right?).

But, I guarantee that will not quiet the bitching masses. "Oh, LA is 'taking' the best Japanese players". That is wrong on so many levels. But fine. Add in more restrictions.

So philosophically (sort of), to what level should parity go and how far is acceptable for achieving parity?

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 8/7/2026 5:56:42 PM >
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