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RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/29/2026 12:33:12 PM

David Levine

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From: Las Vegas
Status: online

Interview with Vikings' beat writer, Alec Lewis:

Carroll: Let’s start with the biggest question on Giants fans’ minds right now: Why did McCarthy struggle so much in Minnesota?

Lewis: In a word? Inconsistencies.

A bevy of injuries prevented him from staying on the field enough to develop further. Wonky footwork didn’t allow him to pass the ball with enough accuracy to move the Vikings offense. Off the field, his day-to-day habits, even inside the Vikings’ building, made it difficult for the staff to know what type of mindset they’d be coaching each week.

Suffice it to say, the Vikings could not bank on McCarthy in several respects. It didn’t help that this is an organization used to a certain level of professionalism at the position.

McCarthy followed respected veteran Kirk Cousins and Sam Darnold, who went on to win a Super Bowl after leaving Minnesota. Those two contributed to double-digit-win seasons. In the spring of 2025, following McCarthy’s recovery from a torn meniscus early in his rookie season, the Vikings transitioned from Darnold to McCarthy. They believed a talented, older roster would provide him with a respectable floor.

It didn’t. The bottom fell out of an explosive passing game. Even though coach Kevin O’Connell signed off on McCarthy being drafted 10th in 2024, McCarthy’s poor performance in 2025 led to the firing of general manager Kwesi Adofo-Mensah. The Vikings eventually determined that they didn’t believe McCarthy could turn things around in Minnesota, which spurred the Kyler Murray signing this spring.

From that point forward, even though the Vikings held a “competition” between Murray and McCarthy, a separation between franchise and quarterback seemed imminent.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/7640655/2026/09/29/jj-mccarthy-giants-vikings-trade/

Post #: 426

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/29/2026 12:34:24 PM

beo

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Joined: 3/18/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

It wouldn't shock me if Teasley went and got Justin Herbert now, but going by his past, it's more likely Teasley tries to find the next Sam Darnold during the off season, unless the Vikings win the SB with one of the current QBs ☺️.

It would shock me.

After the JJM trade we have about 13M in room. If we cut Murray, it would be a bit over 14M.

We'd need to clear another 32M just to fit Herbert's contract.

And if we somehow decimated our roster to clear the space, do you really think the Chargers are really going to take an 86M hit in dead cap by trading him now?

I don't think that is right.

Herbert guaranteed salary is 24M (i believe that is all the trading team would be on the hook for this year, trading team is on the hook for any type of bonus).

That salary is pro rated per game... so with 3 games played I think you'd be down to something like 19.76M... going down as each game is played and money is paid by chargers.

The big issue is Herbert would have something insane like 86M dead cap for chargers if they traded him.

Post #: 427

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/29/2026 12:34:29 PM

David Levine

Posts: 81514
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

David

What if the Chargers accepted 2/3rds of Herbert's contract, and then weren't binded by his contract next year ?

How would that compare to what Arizona ate this year with Murray?

So you want the Chargers to take a 110M cap hit just to get rid of Herbert?

Post #: 428

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/29/2026 12:36:32 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 33464
Status: offline

Is it all that surprising that within a year of KAM being fired JJM is no longer with the team? That's another reason why I believe it was KAM's decision to draft JJM. He may have boxed himself in with his strategy and maybe even regretted the decision, but he is the person that ultimately drafted JJM.

Once KAM was gone, KOC perhaps had more freedom to slot JJM where he belonged, but he still gave JJM a final chance (as in, hey give it another go and see if anything works). Pure speculation of course.

Post #: 429

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/29/2026 12:42:06 PM

marty

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Joined: 12/28/2007
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Bill

I said you're being a pussy if you never vouch for anyone, but you have backed Murray, I didn't realize you had taken a stance on it, I am glad to hear he has your support.

Thanks for clarifying your view on it, it makes plenty of sense.

McCarthy was starting to outplay Murray just before Murray was named the starter, I don't think that believing there is a chance McCarthy can become a SB winner, or even a viable NFL starter is some sort of whacky position.

There was no "thin-skinned emotionally dramatic hissy fit", that is on you, that is your creation. It is obviously fine for others to express opposing viewpoints, and I am happy to counter your viewpoint 🤭.

Where I differ from your viewpoint, after seeing Sam Darnold win a SB, I think it's possible Murray or Wentz could lead the Vikings to a SB win.
.

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 430

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/29/2026 12:43:12 PM

David Levine

Posts: 81514
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: beo

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

It wouldn't shock me if Teasley went and got Justin Herbert now, but going by his past, it's more likely Teasley tries to find the next Sam Darnold during the off season, unless the Vikings win the SB with one of the current QBs ☺️.

It would shock me.

After the JJM trade we have about 13M in room. If we cut Murray, it would be a bit over 14M.

We'd need to clear another 32M just to fit Herbert's contract.

And if we somehow decimated our roster to clear the space, do you really think the Chargers are really going to take an 86M hit in dead cap by trading him now?

I don't think that is right.

Herbert guaranteed salary is 24M (i believe that is all the trading team would be on the hook for this year, trading team is on the hook for any type of bonus).

That salary is pro rated per game... so with 3 games played I think you'd be down to something like 19.76M... going down as each game is played and money is paid by chargers.

The big issue is Herbert would have something insane like 86M dead cap for chargers if they traded him.

Even if that's right (I'm not sure either way), we need to come up with 10-12M more and the Chargers need to eat all that dead cap.

Basically Herbert isn't really tradable until after this year and isn't comfortably tradable until the following offseason.

Post #: 431

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/29/2026 12:47:51 PM

twinsfan

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Joined: 12/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

I just have a hard time, btw, wrapping my head around KOC, as a playcaller. Murray hasn't played meaningful games for over a year. Why not give him a couple series of easy things he's good at. Short passes. I get it, you love the downfield stuff. Get him comfy first.

Also, Jennings is known as "Juan and third". Let's run him down on sideline routes deep down the field

Those get batted down...

Yeah, I saw several short passes knocked down during the few drives I watched last game. The only way for him to deliver a pass is to launch it high in the air downfield, where it's like a 50/50 ball.

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Post #: 432

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/29/2026 12:52:36 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 33464
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Bill

I said you're being a pussy if you never vouch for anyone, but you have backed Murray, I didn't realize you had taken a stance on it, I am glad to hear he has your support.

Thanks for clarifying your view on it, it makes plenty of sense.

McCarthy was starting to outplay Murray just before Murray was named the starter, I don't think that believing there is a chance McCarthy can become a SB winner, or even a viable NFL starter is some sort of whacky position.

There was no "thin-skinned emotionally dramatic hissy fit", that is on you, that is your creation. It is obviously fine for others to express opposing viewpoints, and I am happy to counter your viewpoint 🤭.

Where I differ from your viewpoint, after seeing Sam Darnold win a SB, I think it's possible Murray or Wentz could lead the Vikings to a SB win.
.

You can express your laymen's opinion that JJM was beginning to outplay Murray and even take it to the grave, but it doesn't make it true.

Murray doesn't have my "support" just because I figured he'd start. I never expected more than being able to sit back and watch the entertaining chaos. With a very small hope he would pan out. That hope is still there, but if we sign Patrick Mahomes and a capable backup, Murray can't leave town fast enough.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 9/29/2026 12:57:06 PM >

Post #: 433

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/29/2026 1:09:56 PM

marty

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McCarthy was starting to outplay Murray just before Murray was named the starter, I think most people here would agree with that, or that Murray was starting to play so awfully, that they should have considered McCarthy or Wentz at that point.

The chaos of the team is quite entertaining, and the defense is really fun to watch this season. It will be interesting how everything unfolds.

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SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 434

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/29/2026 1:16:10 PM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 32210
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

So Phil, what QB is Flore's type ?

Doesn’t matter. Point is he didn’t like him either.

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Post #: 435

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/29/2026 1:18:32 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 33464
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

McCarthy was starting to outplay Murray just before Murray was named the starter, I think most people here would agree with that, or that Murray was starting to play so awfully, that they should have considered McCarthy or Wentz at that point.

The chaos of the team is quite entertaining, and the defense is really fun to watch this season. It will be interesting how everything unfolds.

I doubt that.

Post #: 436

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/29/2026 1:27:48 PM

Phil Riewer

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Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
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As bad as JJM being a 10th pick and playing only 10 games and being traded. There is a worse example locally not talked about. Rob Dillingham drafted 8th and started one game. Difference is he was traded for Ayo who produced right away.

The stink will stay on trading JJM until they use that pick no matter what you felt about his future.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 9/29/2026 1:29:02 PM >

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Post #: 437

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/29/2026 1:28:09 PM

David Levine

Posts: 81514
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

McCarthy was starting to outplay Murray just before Murray was named the starter, I think most people here would agree with that, or that Murray was starting to play so awfully, that they should have considered McCarthy or Wentz at that point.

The chaos of the team is quite entertaining, and the defense is really fun to watch this season. It will be interesting how everything unfolds.

You were at the practices?

If you're just going by reports from people that saw them everyday, Murray was the better QB most camp. JJ had one really good day where he outplayed Murray and then immediately regressed and never did it again or built off of it - and that was well before Murray was named starter.

Post #: 438

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/29/2026 1:31:48 PM

David Levine

Posts: 81514
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

As bad as JJM being a 10th pick and playing only 10 games and being traded. There is a worse example locally not talked about. Rob Dillingham drafted 8th and started one game. Difference is he was traded for Ayo who produced right away.

The stink will stay on trading JJM until they use that pick no matter what you felt about his future.

I'm not sure starts tells the story you want it to when comparing two very different sports.

Dillingham may have started once, but he played in 84 games for the Wolves.

They also didn't get rid of a much better player in an effort to make Dilly the guy.

Post #: 439

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/29/2026 1:32:23 PM

Phil Riewer

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Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

McCarthy was starting to outplay Murray just before Murray was named the starter, I think most people here would agree with that, or that Murray was starting to play so awfully, that they should have considered McCarthy or Wentz at that point.

The chaos of the team is quite entertaining, and the defense is really fun to watch this season. It will be interesting how everything unfolds.

You were at the practices?

If you're just going by reports from people that saw them everyday, Murray was the better QB most camp. JJ had one really good day where he outplayed Murray and then immediately regressed and never did it again or built off of it - and that was well before Murray was named starter.

Add that he can’t protect himself and immaturity issues.
The FO and Head Coach and Flores seeing Kyler as being more mature, able to protect himself better, and just a better QB.

The first two just tell you how bad those are for JJM.

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Post #: 440

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/29/2026 1:35:38 PM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 32210
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

As bad as JJM being a 10th pick and playing only 10 games and being traded. There is a worse example locally not talked about. Rob Dillingham drafted 8th and started one game. Difference is he was traded for Ayo who produced right away.

The stink will stay on trading JJM until they use that pick no matter what you felt about his future.

I'm not sure starts tells the story you want it to when comparing two very different sports.

Dillingham may have started once, but he played in 84 games for the Wolves.

They also didn't get rid of a much better player in an effort to make Dilly the guy.

10 minutes a game. Less than 25% as he missed a ton of games due to injury too.

They weren’t resigning Darnold. I see that part as a stretch. Maybe you mean Jones?

_____________________________

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KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 441

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/29/2026 1:54:34 PM

David Levine

Posts: 81514
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

As bad as JJM being a 10th pick and playing only 10 games and being traded. There is a worse example locally not talked about. Rob Dillingham drafted 8th and started one game. Difference is he was traded for Ayo who produced right away.

The stink will stay on trading JJM until they use that pick no matter what you felt about his future.

I'm not sure starts tells the story you want it to when comparing two very different sports.

Dillingham may have started once, but he played in 84 games for the Wolves.

They also didn't get rid of a much better player in an effort to make Dilly the guy.

10 minutes a game. Less than 25% as he missed a ton of games due to injury too.

They weren’t resigning Darnold. I see that part as a stretch. Maybe you mean Jones?

I mean both. If we didn't have JJ, we for sure resign Sam.

Post #: 442

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/29/2026 1:58:07 PM

Lars

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From: Midi-chlorians
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Kyler is 18/34 (52.9%), 186 yds, 1 TD, 2 INT, and 3 sacks, 54.3 rating

Can you objectively say that is better than what we were seeing from JJM?

Given his pedigree, experience and "professionalism", he should be much better than that in the KOC-KAO.

KOC didn't want JJM for whatever his reasons. BUt there is NO WAY you can convince me it was about on-field production cuz what we have been getting ****ing sucks.

PS - give Kyler a shitload of WR/TE drops and Skule et al at LT, too.....

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Post #: 443

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/29/2026 2:18:03 PM

Arlowe84

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Based on what I'm seeing today, it sounds like the Vikings were out on JJ before the season started.

The "competition" was merely an attempt to boost his trade value.

Then he get's freaking hurt and can't play. KOC was ready to cut him. Vikings received zero trade interest (yes even from Jim Harbaugh and the Chargers).

Teasley was on board, but suggested they keep him as a 3rd in the hope that a team would come knocking

Giants asked for a 6th, but Vikes held firm on a 5th
Smart move on Teasley's part to be patient.

I'll wait a few games to judge Murray. maybe he sucks, but he was coming off a serious concussion, in a brand new system and his reps have still been limited
I understand the vertern aspect, but I think this will take weeks to work out.

Post #: 444

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/29/2026 2:24:37 PM

David Levine

Posts: 81514
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lars

Kyler is 18/34 (52.9%), 186 yds, 1 TD, 2 INT, and 3 sacks, 54.3 rating

Can you objectively say that is better than what we were seeing from JJM?

Given his pedigree, experience and "professionalism", he should be much better than that in the KOC-KAO.

KOC didn't want JJM for whatever his reasons. BUt there is NO WAY you can convince me it was about on-field production cuz what we have been getting ****ing sucks.

PS - give Kyler a shitload of WR/TE drops and Skule et al at LT, too.....

I put a lot of those on JJM.

Fastballs on short routes, no touch on any throws, guys having to constantly adjust to poorly thrown balls.

I'm not saying Kyler is better. Maybe 3 or 4 years and 3 or 4 injuries ago. But neither guy should be starting NFL games. At least Kyler is cheaper this year, owed no money next year and we got something for JJM. We weren;t getting a pick for Murray.

Post #: 445

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/29/2026 2:30:37 PM

Jeff Jesser

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Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
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At least Kyler is cheaper this year, owed no money next year and we got something for JJM. We weren;t getting a pick for Murray.

This is the part that blows my mind. The QB whisperer will go in to another year without his franchise guy??? Ya start to wonder

Post #: 446

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/29/2026 2:40:39 PM

Lars

Posts: 11524
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From: Midi-chlorians
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Dude whispers about as well as Matt Foley sittin' in his van down by the river.

I loved his nuanced answer when asked about his comment about teams failing young QBs. "There's a lot of context to that". STFU dude....

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Post #: 447

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/29/2026 2:57:58 PM

David Levine

Posts: 81514
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

quote:

I understood from general internet awareness that the Dolphins were bad... But looking them up, wow, "bad" undersells their level of ineptitude.

Yeah Malik Willis stinks out loud, and their front office was certifiably insane to give him that contract after 35 pass attempts in 2025.

Their new RB1 (Ollie Gordon) is averaging 2.4 yards per carry.

Their #1 pass rusher (Chop Robinson) has all of 4 pressures on the season (0 sacks). Comparing that to Dallas Turner's 19 isn't even fair, but it's not even close to VanGinkle's 9.

Trying for historical context, their average margin of defeat is -16.7 points. That's a full point per game worse than the 2008, 0-16 LoLions (-15.5); and makes the 2017 0-16 Browns look competitive at -11 ppg.

The Vikings have no excuse not to win this game convincingly.

Post #: 448

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/29/2026 3:09:15 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 33464
Status: offline

Again, this is what happens when a team picks a QB so high. The fallout from said QB being a bust is immense and it takes years to reset.

Last time it was Ponder. After three years of futility Bridgewater was drafted at #32.

Two not good years. Injured.

Reset again. In return for a 1st round pick, Bradford. Then Keenum. Then Cousins.

It's likely we follow the post-Ponder blueprint and draft a QB lower in the 1st round. Who will be the new Bridgewater?

Post #: 449

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/29/2026 3:14:11 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 33464
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

I understood from general internet awareness that the Dolphins were bad... But looking them up, wow, "bad" undersells their level of ineptitude.

Yeah Malik Willis stinks out loud, and their front office was certifiably insane to give him that contract after 35 pass attempts in 2025.

Their new RB1 (Ollie Gordon) is averaging 2.4 yards per carry.

Their #1 pass rusher (Chop Robinson) has all of 4 pressures on the season (0 sacks). Comparing that to Dallas Turner's 19 isn't even fair, but it's not even close to VanGinkle's 9.

Trying for historical context, their average margin of defeat is -16.7 points. That's a full point per game worse than the 2008, 0-16 LoLions (-15.5); and makes the 2017 0-16 Browns look competitive at -11 ppg.

The Vikings have no excuse not to win this game convincingly.

Yeah was going to post yesterday they are already at -50 in point differential, and the thing is it's not like they lost a game by 40 and played close in the other two games. Rather, it's a steady bad.

Post #: 450