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RE: College Basketball

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RE: College Basketball - 2/14/2009 12:08:43 AM   
Guest
 Nova was due for a loss, but again (I know DJ will hate this) Huggins is the master underdog.  The guy simply knows how to teach basketball.  I've said it before, but the guy could literally go to your neighborhood and put together a solid, competitive squad in one week.  Unfortunately, he has no clue how to coach blue chippers, which is okay, cuz he's not going to get them.
  Post #: 176
RE: College Basketball - 2/14/2009 12:13:32 AM   
djskillz


Posts: 56863
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		Why would I hate that, man?

Huggins is a FABULOUS coach.  A criminal and a guy I would never in a million years send my son to play for because he does not prepare anyone for life at all.  But a fabulous coach.  One of the very best.

_____________________________

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
Post #: 177
RE: College Basketball - 2/14/2009 12:49:05 AM   
Guest
quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

Why would I hate that, man?

Huggins is a FABULOUS coach.  A criminal and a guy I would never in a million years send my son to play for because he does not prepare anyone for life at all.  But a fabulous coach.  One of the very best.

*********************************
But seriously, is that the job of a basketball coach?   Just because there are a FEW coaches that do that, they get the attention and recognition.  He's a basketball coach, not their parents.  Huggins, very quietly, has financially assisted many of his players after they left  his program, including the former Laker, Melvin Levett. 

Huggins has his flaws, but few coaches could do what he has done.  UC didn't play in a postseason tournament since '76.  Huggins had them in the tournament for 14 consecutive years. 

As far as him being a criminal, our former vice president, Dick Cheney, had two DUI's.  Is he a criminal?
  Post #: 178
RE: College Basketball - 2/14/2009 1:00:56 AM   
Guest
 Huggins is known for his players low graduation rates, but where did these guys come from?  He brought in kids from the city, local kids from Cincinnati, and some poor ass kids from West Virginia.  Do you really think coach K could have made them better scholars?  He gave some kids a shot, he wasn't recruiting well schooled white boys from the suburbs.  There are two sides to this story.
  Post #: 179
RE: College Basketball - 2/14/2009 1:05:18 AM   
thebigo


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Joined: 7/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim Frenette

Watched a little of the U-Conn game it looks like Thabeat does more standing around then anything else. He really doesn't play with much energy in trying to find an opening to get the ball


He blocks shots and he'll get some rebounds against really poor front lines, but he doesn't play well against good college bigs. I think he's going to get eaten alive at the NBA level.


The problem with Thabeat is that you have to have a good feel for how close to his potential he is likely to go. He only started playing basketball the last few years. That leaves me with a sick feeling as the last player to fit that description was Michael Olowakandi.   


And the guy before that Hakeem Olajawon.

< Message edited by thebigo -- 2/14/2009 1:07:06 AM >
Post #: 180
RE: College Basketball - 2/14/2009 1:07:33 AM   
Guest
quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim Frenette

Watched a little of the U-Conn game it looks like Thabeat does more standing around then anything else. He really doesn't play with much energy in trying to find an opening to get the ball


He blocks shots and he'll get some rebounds against really poor front lines, but he doesn't play well against good college bigs. I think he's going to get eaten alive at the NBA level.


The problem with Thabeat is that you have to have a good feel for how close to his potential he is likely to go. He only started playing basketball the last few years. That leaves me with a sick feeling as the last player to fit that description was Michael Olowakandi.   


And the guy before that Hakeem Olajawon.

*******************************
Hakeem was much, much more refined than either of those guys in college.  Not even close.
  Post #: 181
RE: College Basketball - 2/14/2009 9:24:08 AM   
djskillz


Posts: 56863
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pete C

Huggins is known for his players low graduation rates, but where did these guys come from?  He brought in kids from the city, local kids from Cincinnati, and some poor ass kids from West Virginia.  Do you really think coach K could have made them better scholars?  He gave some kids a shot, he wasn't recruiting well schooled white boys from the suburbs.  There are two sides to this story.


Sure, but I think that's BECAUSE he doesn't care about developing kids.  He's specifically targeted basketball talent only, not "good kids" with the idea of NBA or bust. 

I do think that a major aspect of coaching, at the college level and younger, is to develop PEOPLE as well.  But that's just my take.  I think Huggins has failed greatly in that regard.

But he is a wonderful x's and o's coach, no doubt about it.

_____________________________

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
Post #: 182
RE: College Basketball - 2/14/2009 9:27:00 AM   
TJSweens


Posts: 45013
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline 		Trent Tucker has been going on for the last hour about how Thabeet is absolutely and without question the best player in this draft. He believes that he should go #1 and that any team that passes him up, especially the Wolves, will be making a big mistake.

I'm generally a huge fan of Double T and his Saturday morning analysis, but this one has me scratching my head. Like I said before, to take Thabeet that high you have to be absolutely convinced that he will ultimately reach his upside.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."
Post #: 183
RE: College Basketball - 2/14/2009 9:29:59 AM   
djskillz


Posts: 56863
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		Ya, I'm with you Tim.  He's got a chance, and I'd probably take him (not #1) due to upside since the Wolves have so many picks and the C class this year sucks, but he's still definitely a risk.

_____________________________

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
Post #: 184
RE: College Basketball - 2/14/2009 9:35:42 AM   
thebigo


Posts: 28301
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pete C

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim Frenette

Watched a little of the U-Conn game it looks like Thabeat does more standing around then anything else. He really doesn't play with much energy in trying to find an opening to get the ball


He blocks shots and he'll get some rebounds against really poor front lines, but he doesn't play well against good college bigs. I think he's going to get eaten alive at the NBA level.


The problem with Thabeat is that you have to have a good feel for how close to his potential he is likely to go. He only started playing basketball the last few years. That leaves me with a sick feeling as the last player to fit that description was Michael Olowakandi.   


And the guy before that Hakeem Olajawon.

*******************************
Hakeem was much, much more refined than either of those guys in college.  Not even close.


He was a much more fluid athlete with soccer goalie developed hand eye coordination and unmatched body control (before and since) for a 7 foot 250 lber, but his ball skills were similar to Olowakandis in college, he never even touched a basketball until he was 15. Was a 50% free throw shooter his first couple NBA seasons.
Post #: 185
RE: College Basketball - 2/14/2009 9:38:21 AM   
thebigo


Posts: 28301
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Trent Tucker has been going on for the last hour about how Thabeet is absolutely and without question the best player in this draft. He believes that he should go #1 and that any team that passes him up, especially the Wolves, will be making a big mistake.

I'm generally a huge fan of Double T and his Saturday morning analysis, but this one has me scratching my head. Like I said before, to take Thabeet that high you have to be absolutely convinced that he will ultimately reach his upside.


Trent Tucker is the Bob Lurtsema of Minnesota b-ball analysis. Although he is less of a loose cannon.
Post #: 186
RE: College Basketball - 2/14/2009 9:44:46 AM   
Steve Lentz


Posts: 36196
Joined: 7/19/2007
From: Omaha
Status: offline 		Thabeet will go in the top couple players based on his size and potential. He may become a good defensive player in the NBA but he really will have to work to be an effective offensive player at that level. I don't see it YET.

_____________________________

" I believe empathy is the most essential quality of civilization"
Post #: 187
RE: College Basketball - 2/14/2009 10:02:25 AM   
Elliot


Posts: 3591
Joined: 7/28/2007
From: North Highland Beach, NJ
Status: offline 		I was listening to Eric Kuselias this morning on ESPN radio and he was talking about Thabeet.  His point was that Thabeet is just dominant on the defensive end of the floor.  Using the Syracuse game as an example, he only scored 8 points but had 16 rebounds and 7 blocks.  That's just the measurables.  He prevented driving to the rim and changed the game with his presence. 

I must admit that I've flip-flopped a bit on him.  He can look dominant in one game and disappear in others.  Perhaps that's to be expected from someone that has been playing the game for a comparitively short while.  

_____________________________

Life is just what happens to you,
While you're busy making other plans

~ John Lennon
Post #: 188
RE: College Basketball - 2/14/2009 11:59:16 AM   
David Levine


Posts: 77901
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elliot

I was listening to Eric Kuselias this morning on ESPN radio and he was talking about Thabeet.  His point was that Thabeet is just dominant on the defensive end of the floor.  Using the Syracuse game as an example, he only scored 8 points but had 16 rebounds and 7 blocks.  That's just the measurables.  He prevented driving to the rim and changed the game with his presence. 

I must admit that I've flip-flopped a bit on him.  He can look dominant in one game and disappear in others.  Perhaps that's to be expected from someone that has been playing the game for a comparitively short while.  


But doesn't Syracuse have a pretty horrible front court? I only saw a little of the game and it looked to me like the big guys were actually scared of Thabeet. I can't see that happening at the next level.
Post #: 189
RE: College Basketball - 2/14/2009 12:06:49 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 77901
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pete C

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim Frenette

Watched a little of the U-Conn game it looks like Thabeat does more standing around then anything else. He really doesn't play with much energy in trying to find an opening to get the ball


He blocks shots and he'll get some rebounds against really poor front lines, but he doesn't play well against good college bigs. I think he's going to get eaten alive at the NBA level.


The problem with Thabeat is that you have to have a good feel for how close to his potential he is likely to go. He only started playing basketball the last few years. That leaves me with a sick feeling as the last player to fit that description was Michael Olowakandi.   


And the guy before that Hakeem Olajawon.

*******************************
Hakeem was much, much more refined than either of those guys in college.  Not even close.


He was a much more fluid athlete with soccer goalie developed hand eye coordination and unmatched body control (before and since) for a 7 foot 250 lber, but his ball skills were similar to Olowakandis in college, he never even touched a basketball until he was 15. Was a 50% free throw shooter his first couple NBA seasons.


He also led his team to consecutive NCAA Championship Games and even won the NCAA Tournament Player of the Year Award - despite losing.

And not quite a 50% FT shooter his first few seasons:

84-85: 61%
85-86: 65%
86-87: 70%
87-88: 70%
Post #: 190
RE: College Basketball - 2/14/2009 12:17:55 PM   
TJSweens


Posts: 45013
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Trent Tucker has been going on for the last hour about how Thabeet is absolutely and without question the best player in this draft. He believes that he should go #1 and that any team that passes him up, especially the Wolves, will be making a big mistake.

I'm generally a huge fan of Double T and his Saturday morning analysis, but this one has me scratching my head. Like I said before, to take Thabeet that high you have to be absolutely convinced that he will ultimately reach his upside.


Trent Tucker is the Bob Lurtsema of Minnesota b-ball analysis. Although he is less of a loose cannon.



I haven't listened to Lurtsema in years so I don't know what that means. Double T is usually spot on with his hoops analysis. That's why his assessment is making me rethink Thabeet a little. Trent was enamored with his ability to impact the game just by being on the floor. The post defense, rebounds, blocked shots and changed shots were the big things to Tucker.

I still think the hoops world is a little too quick to become enamored with someone solely because they are 7'3" and athletic. Then again I thought Brook Lopez would be a pile of crap, so what do I know?

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."
Post #: 191
RE: College Basketball - 2/14/2009 12:23:14 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 77901
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens
Then again I thought Brook Lopez would be a pile of crap, so what do I know?


That's the one place I get a little stuck too.

I'd be more than thrilled if we draft Hardin with our pick and Thabeet slides to the Miami pick. But either one of those is a long shot.
Post #: 192
RE: College Basketball - 2/14/2009 12:51:49 PM   
Elliot


Posts: 3591
Joined: 7/28/2007
From: North Highland Beach, NJ
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elliot

I was listening to Eric Kuselias this morning on ESPN radio and he was talking about Thabeet.  His point was that Thabeet is just dominant on the defensive end of the floor.  Using the Syracuse game as an example, he only scored 8 points but had 16 rebounds and 7 blocks.  That's just the measurables.  He prevented driving to the rim and changed the game with his presence. 

I must admit that I've flip-flopped a bit on him.  He can look dominant in one game and disappear in others.  Perhaps that's to be expected from someone that has been playing the game for a comparitively short while.  


But doesn't Syracuse have a pretty horrible front court? I only saw a little of the game and it looked to me like the big guys were actually scared of Thabeet. I can't see that happening at the next level.


Yep.  Syracuse doesn't have anyone of note on the front line.  And I know you've been pretty consistent in pointing that out as a weakness for Thabeet.  I don't mean to dismiss it, because there does seem to be a pattern of Thabeet having strong showings against weak, undersized front courts and disappearing against competition that isn't intimidated.

< Message edited by Elliot -- 2/14/2009 12:54:46 PM >

_____________________________

Life is just what happens to you,
While you're busy making other plans

~ John Lennon
Post #: 193
RE: College Basketball - 2/14/2009 1:08:05 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 77901
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elliot

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elliot

I was listening to Eric Kuselias this morning on ESPN radio and he was talking about Thabeet.  His point was that Thabeet is just dominant on the defensive end of the floor.  Using the Syracuse game as an example, he only scored 8 points but had 16 rebounds and 7 blocks.  That's just the measurables.  He prevented driving to the rim and changed the game with his presence. 

I must admit that I've flip-flopped a bit on him.  He can look dominant in one game and disappear in others.  Perhaps that's to be expected from someone that has been playing the game for a comparitively short while.  


But doesn't Syracuse have a pretty horrible front court? I only saw a little of the game and it looked to me like the big guys were actually scared of Thabeet. I can't see that happening at the next level.


Yep.  Syracuse doesn't have anyone of note on the front line.  And I know you've been pretty consistent in pointing that out as a weakness for Thabeet.  I don't mean to dismiss it, because there does seem to be a pattern of Thabeet having strong showings against weak, undersized front courts and disappearing against competition that isn't intimidated.


That's what scares me. He struggles against guys that are PF sized in the NBA. I keep getting visions of Adonal Foyle, not Dikembe Mutombo.

A lot of it could come down to motivation. Does he want to be great enough to put in the effort to get his lower body much stronger, will he work on his position defense, can he find even Dikembe levels of offense?

How many times has this franchise gotten burned drafting a "center for need"? Spencer, Longley, Grant. I think we're 3 for 3.

< Message edited by David Levine -- 2/14/2009 1:09:11 PM >
Post #: 194
RE: College Basketball - 2/14/2009 2:35:00 PM   
Steve Lentz


Posts: 36196
Joined: 7/19/2007
From: Omaha
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens
Then again I thought Brook Lopez would be a pile of crap, so what do I know?


That's the one place I get a little stuck too.

I'd be more than thrilled if we draft Hardin with our pick and Thabeet slides to the Miami pick. But either one of those is a long shot.


Let's dream big and imagine getting both. Probably couldn't afford it.

_____________________________

" I believe empathy is the most essential quality of civilization"
Post #: 195
RE: College Basketball - 2/14/2009 2:45:18 PM   
Steve Lentz


Posts: 36196
Joined: 7/19/2007
From: Omaha
Status: offline 		Griffin with 40 pts and 23 rebounds today.  Big 12 will get the player of the year again.

_____________________________

" I believe empathy is the most essential quality of civilization"
Post #: 196
RE: College Basketball - 2/14/2009 4:54:05 PM   
Guest
quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

Griffin with 40 pts and 23 rebounds today.  Big 12 will get the player of the year again.

**********************************
Not only does Oklahoma have the player of the year, they also have the best freshman in the country too, IMO.
  Post #: 197
RE: College Basketball - 2/14/2009 6:01:07 PM   
Steve Lentz


Posts: 36196
Joined: 7/19/2007
From: Omaha
Status: offline 		Ya think Thabeet's stock went up today. Another WOW!

_____________________________

" I believe empathy is the most essential quality of civilization"
Post #: 198
RE: College Basketball - 2/14/2009 6:13:51 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 77901
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline 		Damn. 25 points, 20 rebounds, 9 blocks.

Just when I thought I was out... they pull me back in.
Post #: 199
RE: College Basketball - 2/14/2009 6:21:59 PM   
Steve Lentz


Posts: 36196
Joined: 7/19/2007
From: Omaha
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Damn. 25 points, 20 rebounds, 9 blocks.

Just when I thought I was out... they pull me back in.


If we get in the top 3 choices we're going to get a huge upgrade.

_____________________________

" I believe empathy is the most essential quality of civilization"
Post #: 200
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