RE: College Football (Future Vikings!)

Talk Vikes and Other MN Sports

Forums Register Login My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums

Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ Ticket List Log Out

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [The Minnesota Vikings] >> Vikes Talk >> RE: College Football (Future Vikings!)

Page: << < prev 26 27 [28] 29 30 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/24/2013 10:05:46 AM

Brad H

Posts: 22986
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

There should be zero hate out there for this Carr kid. As Brad pointed out he has NFL size and arm. Anybody know where he is projected to be picked?

One problem people have with Carr is that they associate him with his brother. Truth be told, David Carr may have been a decent NFL quarterback had he not been drafted by an expansion team. He had ZERO talent around him at Houston when he was drafted #1 overall. He was set up for failure.

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!

Post #: 676

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/24/2013 10:07:35 AM

marty

Posts: 13047
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

JT

It's good to know there is near consensus on Bridgewater, that he's almost a surefire stud, should the Vikes get him.

Some of the high production guys had epic fails today. Maybe that will help to make people realize that production is only one part of the total picture. It's easy to dismiss Manziel's flaws, when his production is high, but his shortcomings (pun intended) as a NFL prospect should not be overlooked. Aside from the obvious, and contrary to popular opinion in here, he does not have good pocket awareness. He has a very prolonged, slow delivery. His deep balls, more often than not, are jump balls. He has great foot speed, but not great foot work. He doesn't hold the ball high, nor with two hands. He is a NFL coach's nightmare. And, it shouldn't have to be said, but people seem to have short memories, Tim Tebow was a better college QB than Manziel. It's not all about production. Ask Klingler or Brennan.

Tebow likely had a better supporting cast in college than Manziel.

I think it's fair to question Manziel's deep ball, just as you can question Tom Brady's deep ball. Brady doesn't throw the best deep ball, but somehow, plenty of his deep balls get there. I haven't seen enough deep balls from Manziel to make a judgement, but the few I have seen, they did seem to get there.

I think it's also fair to worry about Manziel's size and stature, and whether or not he'll hold up at the NFL level. Flutie did tend to have a lot of passes batted down. I really don't remember, was Flutie hurt a lot ?

I've only seen 5 of Manziel's games, and some highlights, and I see nothing but good or even GREAT pocket awareness. Even if you wanted to argue his pocket awareness was poor, you'd have to admit he was very quick in the pocket. I think his OL is not as good as last years, and he has little to no help from the run game this season, and the defense has also been much worse than last season. I don't see a slow delivery with him either, last season he was quite quick in getting the ball out.

Post #: 677

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/24/2013 10:09:39 AM

marty

Posts: 13047
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

Do you think Doug Flutie would have gotten a ring had he played in the early or mid 90s with the 49ers or with the Cowboys ?

Post #: 678

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/24/2013 10:11:50 AM

Todd M

Posts: 40660
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: online

Ok, Marty has watched some games so I am a level below him.

Guys get paid to scout these guys and are wrong. I find there is enough info, breakdowns, and highlights of these guys to at least get a feel.

I could sit out and not offer an opinion but I don't care...I figure we're in the market for a QB this year so I am paying more attention.

Post #: 679

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/24/2013 10:19:08 AM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 17928
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

There should be zero hate out there for this Carr kid. As Brad pointed out he has NFL size and arm. Anybody know where he is projected to be picked?

One problem people have with Carr is that they associate him with his brother. Truth be told, David Carr may have been a decent NFL quarterback had he not been drafted by an expansion team. He had ZERO talent around him at Houston when he was drafted #1 overall. He was set up for failure.

That simply should have zero revelence. Being he is Davids younger brother at least gives us some reference to arm strength and body type. Which David had but as you say was given no help at Houston. I remember that O-line in Houston allowed record numbers for sacks. Alot of experts said it simply ruined David Carr

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 680

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/24/2013 10:25:11 AM

Ian Joseph

Posts: 15350
Joined: 7/15/2007
From: Los Angeles, CA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Urban Meyer is finding out it is tough to get votes playing in the Big 10 and he has won like 23 straight games. Unless the weak Big 10 teams can somehow pick it up, teams like OSU and Wisc will have to schedule much tougher nonconference teams if they are to get in the playoffs

Getting into the playoffs won't be difficult since it's four teams, at least if OSU is undefeated. If it's a logjam of one loss teams, then you may be 300% correct.

_____________________________

Hate the message, not the messenger.

Enjoy the process; crave the goal.

Believe.

Post #: 681

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/24/2013 10:42:10 AM

69in09

Posts: 8480
Joined: 1/13/2009
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: John Childress

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

Top 5 quarterbacks the Vikings should be looking at.

1) Manziel, A&M
2) Mettenberger, LSU (this guy could actually be the best fit for the Vikings offense)
3) Mariota, Oregon
4) Carr, Fresno State
5) Wallace, Ole Miss

Yuck. That's my list of who not to draft. With the possible exception of Mariota.

AGREED!

That is about as bad of a QB list as I have seen

Manziel will be broken up within 2 years in the NFL

Want no part of Carr

Don't know why Carr isn't getting any love. Season Stats: 350-of-502 (69.7%) for 3,948 yards, 39 TD's, 4 INT's. Those are crazy good numbers, and the kid has overcome a lot of adversity. A serious high-character kid. Granted, they haven't played a power schedule, but those numbers are pretty undeniable for some Heisman attention. The kid has good size at 6-foot-3 and 220 pounds. He is dead accurate.

At some point, you just need to tip your cap and say nice job kid!

Here is an very telling story of what this guy has gone through this season.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-saturday/fresno-state-qb-derek-carr-newborn-son-home-141756154--ncaaf.html

At first I didn't really like your post.

Then I read it aloud in Ron Burgundy's voice and now it's my all time favorite.

_____________________________

This is my burner account.

Post #: 682

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/24/2013 11:20:37 AM

thebigo

Posts: 28301
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: 69in09

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: John Childress

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

Top 5 quarterbacks the Vikings should be looking at.

1) Manziel, A&M
2) Mettenberger, LSU (this guy could actually be the best fit for the Vikings offense)
3) Mariota, Oregon
4) Carr, Fresno State
5) Wallace, Ole Miss

Yuck. That's my list of who not to draft. With the possible exception of Mariota.

AGREED!

That is about as bad of a QB list as I have seen

Manziel will be broken up within 2 years in the NFL

Want no part of Carr

Don't know why Carr isn't getting any love. Season Stats: 350-of-502 (69.7%) for 3,948 yards, 39 TD's, 4 INT's. Those are crazy good numbers, and the kid has overcome a lot of adversity. A serious high-character kid. Granted, they haven't played a power schedule, but those numbers are pretty undeniable for some Heisman attention. The kid has good size at 6-foot-3 and 220 pounds. He is dead accurate.

At some point, you just need to tip your cap and say nice job kid!

Here is an very telling story of what this guy has gone through this season.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-saturday/fresno-state-qb-derek-carr-newborn-son-home-141756154--ncaaf.html

At first I didn't really like your post.

Then I read it aloud in Ron Burgundy's voice and now it's my all time favorite.

Post #: 683

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/24/2013 11:23:08 AM

Ricky J

Posts: 18357
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: 69in09

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: John Childress

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

Top 5 quarterbacks the Vikings should be looking at.

1) Manziel, A&M
2) Mettenberger, LSU (this guy could actually be the best fit for the Vikings offense)
3) Mariota, Oregon
4) Carr, Fresno State
5) Wallace, Ole Miss

Yuck. That's my list of who not to draft. With the possible exception of Mariota.

AGREED!

That is about as bad of a QB list as I have seen

Manziel will be broken up within 2 years in the NFL

Want no part of Carr

Don't know why Carr isn't getting any love. Season Stats: 350-of-502 (69.7%) for 3,948 yards, 39 TD's, 4 INT's. Those are crazy good numbers, and the kid has overcome a lot of adversity. A serious high-character kid. Granted, they haven't played a power schedule, but those numbers are pretty undeniable for some Heisman attention. The kid has good size at 6-foot-3 and 220 pounds. He is dead accurate.

At some point, you just need to tip your cap and say nice job kid!

Here is an very telling story of what this guy has gone through this season.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-saturday/fresno-state-qb-derek-carr-newborn-son-home-141756154--ncaaf.html

At first I didn't really like your post.

Then I read it aloud in Ron Burgundy's voice and now it's my all time favorite.

A high character kid? Like he'd be any good then ....

< Message edited by Ricky J -- 11/24/2013 11:26:25 AM >

Post #: 684

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/25/2013 8:15:19 AM

Trekgeekscott

Posts: 39278
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: United Federation of Planets
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

There should be zero hate out there for this Carr kid. As Brad pointed out he has NFL size and arm. Anybody know where he is projected to be picked?

One problem people have with Carr is that they associate him with his brother. Truth be told, David Carr may have been a decent NFL quarterback had he not been drafted by an expansion team. He had ZERO talent around him at Houston when he was drafted #1 overall. He was set up for failure.

That simply should have zero revelence. Being he is Davids younger brother at least gives us some reference to arm strength and body type. Which David had but as you say was given no help at Houston. I remember that O-line in Houston allowed record numbers for sacks. Alot of experts said it simply ruined David Carr

Anyone who wants to use David Carr as a reason to not take his little brother should remember the success/not success of Barry Bonds/Bobby Bonds Jr, or Ken Griffey Jr/Craig Griffey or Cal Ripken Jr/Billy Ripken or Mufasa/Scar.

Some siblings are just better athletically.

_____________________________

“There is no hate like Christian love.”

Post #: 685

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/25/2013 10:41:25 AM

Jeff Jesser

Posts: 19458
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: online

Peyton/Eli

Post #: 686

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/25/2013 4:48:23 PM

thebigo

Posts: 28301
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

There should be zero hate out there for this Carr kid.

If the Vikings draft him, that will take care of that.

Post #: 687

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/26/2013 8:48:24 PM

marty

Posts: 13047
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

I'm starting to come around to the opinion that Manziel likely won't hold up at the NFL level, that he'll get beat up too much. He'll probably be just like RGIII, and end up being hurt all the time. I think it's possible RGIII NEVER gets to a SB. His defense sucks right now, and I think teams will think the way to stop him is by hitting him hard.

It's also possible that Aaron Rodgers never wins another SB. Teams might figure you can't really stop him, so just get some good shots on him, weaken him or knock him out of the game, then your team can beat the Pack. He might tire of the pounding and retire at a fairly young age. It's probably just wishful thinking ....

I'm coming around to the idea that the only QB that is worth drafting in the 1st round is Bridgewater, and maybe he ends up being a bust as well. Maybe this will end up being a BAD class of QBs, who knows ? IF the Vikes can't get Bridgewater, then I think they should probably hope for a 2nd or 3rd round steal at QB, somebody that just seems to win.

Manziel would probably just be good for entertainment. But I've think we got that with Favre, now I just want the Vikes to shut up the naysayers and win a SB.

Post #: 688

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/26/2013 8:56:12 PM

69in09

Posts: 8480
Joined: 1/13/2009
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I'm starting to come around to the opinion that Manziel likely won't hold up at the NFL level, that he'll get beat up too much. He'll probably be just like RGIII, and end up being hurt all the time. I think it's possible RGIII NEVER gets to a SB. His defense sucks right now, and I think teams will think the way to stop him is by hitting him hard.

It's also possible that Aaron Rodgers never wins another SB. Teams might figure you can't really stop him, so just get some good shots on him, weaken him or knock him out of the game, then your team can beat the Pack. He might tire of the pounding and retire at a fairly young age. It's probably just wishful thinking ....

I'm coming around to the idea that the only QB that is worth drafting in the 1st round is Bridgewater, and maybe he ends up being a bust as well. Maybe this will end up being a BAD class of QBs, who knows ? IF the Vikes can't get Bridgewater, then I think they should probably hope for a 2nd or 3rd round steal at QB, somebody that just seems to win.

Manziel would probably just be good for entertainment. But I've think we got that with Favre, now I just want the Vikes to shut up the naysayers and win a SB.

Manziel has a great ability to sense and escape trouble. That is a pretty good way to stay healthy. He'll need to improve his accuracy if he wants to be successful at the next level.

RGIII is his own worst enemy right now. He is continually putting himself in harms way taking unneeded hits.

There are lots of good QBs coming out. Must get one in this draft. I'm warming to Carr.

_____________________________

This is my burner account.

Post #: 689

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/26/2013 8:59:13 PM

thebigo

Posts: 28301
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I'm starting to come around to the opinion that Manziel likely won't hold up at the NFL level, that he'll get beat up too much. He'll probably be just like RGIII, and end up being hurt all the time. I think it's possible RGIII NEVER gets to a SB. His defense sucks right now, and I think teams will think the way to stop him is by hitting him hard.

It's also possible that Aaron Rodgers never wins another SB. Teams might figure you can't really stop him, so just get some good shots on him, weaken him or knock him out of the game, then your team can beat the Pack. He might tire of the pounding and retire at a fairly young age. It's probably just wishful thinking ....

I'm coming around to the idea that the only QB that is worth drafting in the 1st round is Bridgewater, and maybe he ends up being a bust as well. Maybe this will end up being a BAD class of QBs, who knows ? IF the Vikes can't get Bridgewater, then I think they should probably hope for a 2nd or 3rd round steal at QB, somebody that just seems to win.

Manziel would probably just be good for entertainment. But I've think we got that with Favre, now I just want the Vikes to shut up the naysayers and win a SB.

One bad game an you're off the bandwagon.

Post #: 690

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/26/2013 9:31:52 PM

marty

Posts: 13047
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

No, it's not the one game.

It has little to do with that game, I didn't even see that game. It has more to do with the opinions of so many others that I've talked with and comments here (JC, JT and others) . People that watch a lot more college football than I have.

I admit I haven't really watched enough college football to weigh in on this, and I trust the opinion of others that have watched a lot more, more than my own opinion on this.

< Message edited by marty -- 11/26/2013 9:50:23 PM >

Post #: 691

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/26/2013 10:51:14 PM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12164
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline

Hold firm Marty.

Johnny Football will be successful in the NFL.

Post #: 692

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/27/2013 8:21:03 AM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 17928
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

I have my doubts as well about Johnny holding up in the NFL. He's not built like a Russell Wilson but has super ability to escape from prssure. Many have called him the next Tark but he is closer to the next Flutie.

If he can avoid taking direct shots at the next level I think he can succeed. But if he seems to take hits like an RGIII he will get busted up. Currently, he takes direct hits. Not sure he has that knack like Wilson to be able to avoid them.

Crap shoot

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 693

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/27/2013 8:28:13 AM

Ricky J

Posts: 18357
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

I have my doubts as well about Johnny holding up in the NFL. He's not built like a Russell Wilson but has super ability to escape from prssure. Many have called him the next Tark but he is closer to the next Flutie.

If he can avoid taking direct shots at the next level I think he can succeed. But if he seems to take hits like an RGIII he will get busted up. Currently, he takes direct hits. Not sure he has that knack like Wilson to be able to avoid them.

Crap shoot

I think it's ridiculous to think someone 2 inches taller, 4 inches, or what have you is not going to be injured as easily as JM (or Doug F, Tark, etc) when someone that weighs 270, 300, 350 tackles them. Did it prevent RG, PM, AR from getting injured?

IOW, JM's size as it relates to injury shouldn't and probably won't have anything to do his draft position.

< Message edited by Ricky J -- 11/27/2013 8:45:19 AM >

Post #: 694

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/27/2013 8:31:04 AM

Ricky J

Posts: 18357
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

No, it's not the one game.

It has little to do with that game, I didn't even see that game. It has more to do with the opinions of so many others that I've talked with and comments here (JC, JT and others) . People that watch a lot more college football than I have.

I admit I haven't really watched enough college football to weigh in on this, and I trust the opinion of others that have watched a lot more, more than my own opinion on this.

I thought you were your own man, marty?

Post #: 695

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/27/2013 9:16:03 AM

Jeff Jesser

Posts: 19458
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: online

IMHO it's not even his size that will get him in trouble. It's his mentality. I've never even seen him try to avoid contact. He's a lot like RG3 in that regard.

He also chucks up a lot of prayers. I hate that about him. Love his warrior mentality though.

Post #: 696

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/27/2013 9:25:12 AM

David Levine

Posts: 77935
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

IMHO it's not even his size that will get him in trouble. It's his mentality. I've never even seen him try to avoid contact. He's a lot like RG3 in that regard.

He also chucks up a lot of prayers. I hate that about him. Love his warrior mentality though.

Exactly. The hits he takes in college are going to be harder and more violent at the next level.

As solidly built as Wilson is, he wouldn't stand up to the same pounding either.

Post #: 697

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/27/2013 9:26:41 AM

Todd M

Posts: 40660
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

IMHO it's not even his size that will get him in trouble. It's his mentality. I've never even seen him try to avoid contact. He's a lot like RG3 in that regard.

He also chucks up a lot of prayers. I hate that about him. Love his warrior mentality though.

Youtube highlight video guy here but you do really see that. I personally love aggressive football. I was all for the Randy ratio...with a guy like him, or Calvin Johnson it is a viable option. But JM's seem to be more along the Manning to Tyree...chucking up a prayer and luckily it is answered. The other side of getting lucky is the inevitable 5 pick games.

Post #: 698

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/27/2013 10:40:38 AM

Prescott

Posts: 15395
Joined: 10/3/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

IMHO it's not even his size that will get him in trouble. It's his mentality. I've never even seen him try to avoid contact. He's a lot like RG3 in that regard.

He also chucks up a lot of prayers. I hate that about him. Love his warrior mentality though.

I think this is spot on. Bob Sanders was the MAN. If he was just a little bigger and built just a little bit differently, he'd be Troy Polamalu - long career busting heads and making all pro teams. A couple inches and a few pounds can make a difference, and even more than that, your build and mentality matter.

_____________________________

If I had a perfect day
I would have it start this way
Open up the fridge and have a tall boy
Yeah

Post #: 699

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/27/2013 10:51:23 AM

Trekgeekscott

Posts: 39278
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: United Federation of Planets
Status: offline

This draft went from having several good QB options to none according to this board.

A lot of people are talking themselves out of Johnny Manziel. And Mariota, and Carr etc

I believe, given enough time, that even Brigewater will have warts people cant stand and wont want to draft and will call an immediate bust.

ALL of the QBs coming out have warts. There is no perfect QB coming out of any draft. There will be some misses. and Some hits.

What I don't want to see next May is the Vikings reaching for someone like a Ponder. But they need a QB in a bad way. And I would not be upset at all with Mariota, Manziel, or Carr in the second round.

_____________________________

“There is no hate like Christian love.”

Post #: 700