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RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/3/2014 1:26:47 PM

thebigo

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Let's say MSU takes Alabama down to the wire IN Alabama, but ends up losing in a game where the 2 teams look extremely even. Both teams have one loss, Bama wins the SEC West and is in, MSU is out because of a road loss that likely is a win if played at home.

Post #: 1726

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/3/2014 1:31:09 PM

John Childress

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quote:

ORIGINAL: McMurfy

quote:

ORIGINAL: John Childress

As long as you get FSU, Oregon, and the SEC Winner in the mix then I think the best team in the country will be represented

Exactly.

If FSU, Oregon, Michigan State, win out and the SEC conference champ are in, its a good group.

In that scenario, Dustin should see a cakewalk for the SEC team.

BINGO

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No more acceptance of mediocrity!!!! EVER!

Post #: 1727

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/3/2014 2:06:46 PM

djskillz

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From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: McMurfy

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

I also don't get the logic. Let's say for the sake of argument that some combination of FSU/TCU/KSU/Oregon/Michigan State/MSU/Auburn/Alabama/Ole Miss are the best teams in the country. I think you'd be hard-pressed to find someone with a strong argument for a team outside of that group being the best in the nation. If you look at conference schedules, everyone else but the Big12/SEC has no competitor in their conference in that mix. So it's almost impossible that those SEC teams won't have at least 1 loss each, and a good chance for 2. But can anyone honestly say that they think FSU/TCU/KSU/Oregon/Michigan State wouldn't also have at least 2 losses in the SEC West? I find that hard to believe.

Schedule matters.

Schedule Matters, but was Ole Miss really ever the third best team in the country?
is Miss State?

It's tough to rank. But I absolutely think those 2 teams are 2 of the top 8 or so teams in the country, and very possibly 2 of the top 4-5.

_____________________________

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

Post #: 1728

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/3/2014 2:08:10 PM

djskillz

Posts: 56863
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: McMurfy

quote:

ORIGINAL: John Childress

As long as you get FSU, Oregon, and the SEC Winner in the mix then I think the best team in the country will be represented

Exactly.

If FSU, Oregon, Michigan State, win out and the SEC conference champ are in, its a good group.

In that scenario, Dustin should see a cakewalk for the SEC team.

Probably so. I do think Oregon is playing extremely well. I just don't think FSU/Michigan St are impressive in their body of work. Of course FSU has to be in though if they go undefeated off of their national championship year. I just think they were much more impressive last year than this. This year they've struggled all year for the most part playing the sisters of the poor.

_____________________________

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Post #: 1729

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/3/2014 2:09:38 PM

djskillz

Posts: 56863
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From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

Let's say MSU takes Alabama down to the wire IN Alabama, but ends up losing in a game where the 2 teams look extremely even. Both teams have one loss, Bama wins the SEC West and is in, MSU is out because of a road loss that likely is a win if played at home.

Exactly. And that's a very real scenario IMO. And again, I see a lot of these teams losing from other conferences in the coming weeks as well. I still think both the SEC West champ and the 2nd best team from the SEC West (that doesn't have to play in the SEC title game) will be in.

_____________________________

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

Post #: 1730

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/3/2014 2:10:55 PM

djskillz

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From: Nashville, TN
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I also think Michigan State and Kansas State are tied to the fate of Oregon and Auburn. I think it's hard to put either one of those teams in the top 4, even if they win out, over Oregon/Auburn.

_____________________________

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Post #: 1731

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/3/2014 2:55:27 PM

Trekgeekscott

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quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

Let's say MSU takes Alabama down to the wire IN Alabama, but ends up losing in a game where the 2 teams look extremely even. Both teams have one loss, Bama wins the SEC West and is in, MSU is out because of a road loss that likely is a win if played at home.

Exactly. And that's a very real scenario IMO. And again, I see a lot of these teams losing from other conferences in the coming weeks as well. I still think both the SEC West champ and the 2nd best team from the SEC West (that doesn't have to play in the SEC title game) will be in.

Good teams overcome that adversity.

Win or GO HOME.

I can see quite clearly now that the whole point of a playoff is lost on people. We have the same problem here. Just like before the debate rages on, instead of who will play of the National Championship, it's a toss up of four team for who gets to play for the National Championship. And just like professional sports, some conferences/divisions are stronger than others. If you want in the tourney...WIN YOUR CONFERENCE.

I don't think there should be any debate about this. The only debate I can see if is if there are more than four conferences.

Win or GO HOME.

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Post #: 1732

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/3/2014 3:04:12 PM

bohumm

Posts: 5705
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: Altadena, CA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

Let's say MSU takes Alabama down to the wire IN Alabama, but ends up losing in a game where the 2 teams look extremely even. Both teams have one loss, Bama wins the SEC West and is in, MSU is out because of a road loss that likely is a win if played at home.

Exactly. And that's a very real scenario IMO. And again, I see a lot of these teams losing from other conferences in the coming weeks as well. I still think both the SEC West champ and the 2nd best team from the SEC West (that doesn't have to play in the SEC title game) will be in.

Good teams overcome that adversity.

Win or GO HOME.

I can see quite clearly now that the whole point of a playoff is lost on people. We have the same problem here. Just like before the debate rages on, instead of who will play of the National Championship, it's a toss up of four team for who gets to play for the National Championship. And just like professional sports, some conferences/divisions are stronger than others. If you want in the tourney...WIN YOUR CONFERENCE.

I don't think there should be any debate about this. The only debate I can see if is if there are more than four conferences.

Win or GO HOME.

Or be in a shitty conference disguised as a power conference, like the Big 12.

The playoff is better as is, and would be even better if expanded to eight teams. There will always be issues at the margin, but it diminishes with more room for situations like the one thebigo describes. But expanding to 8 might cost a team a home game against Tennessee Southern and the big payday it brings when you force your season ticketholders to buy all or buy none.

College football is all about the money, or at least mostly.

Post #: 1733

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/3/2014 3:29:25 PM

djskillz

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From: Nashville, TN
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Yep. It will inevitably expand to 8, and maybe even 16, as the money keeps pouring in.

Scott, "win the conference" doesn't really hold much sway with me when 2 of the 5 conferences (the ACC and Big 10) are absolute jokes right now. To me it should be the four best TEAMS, period. If all of those 4 are from 4 different conferences, great. If all 4 are from one conference, so be it.

_____________________________

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

Post #: 1734

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/3/2014 4:22:37 PM

John Childress

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That defeats the purpose of a playoff

You already have the sec championship

The point is to match teams who HAVEN'T played

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No more acceptance of mediocrity!!!! EVER!

Post #: 1735

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/3/2014 5:23:27 PM

djskillz

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From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

That's where we differ. The playoff isn't about matchups. It's about finding a national champion.

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"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

Post #: 1736

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/3/2014 6:34:12 PM

thebigo

Posts: 28294
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

Let's say MSU takes Alabama down to the wire IN Alabama, but ends up losing in a game where the 2 teams look extremely even. Both teams have one loss, Bama wins the SEC West and is in, MSU is out because of a road loss that likely is a win if played at home.

Exactly. And that's a very real scenario IMO. And again, I see a lot of these teams losing from other conferences in the coming weeks as well. I still think both the SEC West champ and the 2nd best team from the SEC West (that doesn't have to play in the SEC title game) will be in.

Good teams overcome that adversity.

Win or GO HOME.

I can see quite clearly now that the whole point of a playoff is lost on people. We have the same problem here. Just like before the debate rages on, instead of who will play of the National Championship, it's a toss up of four team for who gets to play for the National Championship. And just like professional sports, some conferences/divisions are stronger than others. If you want in the tourney...WIN YOUR CONFERENCE.

I don't think there should be any debate about this. The only debate I can see if is if there are more than four conferences.

Win or GO HOME.

What there should be no discussion about is the idea that this playoff is represented by the champions of 4 different conferences. BTW which four conferences have you deemed as the big 4? Independents don't get in? What if all of these 1 loss teams except Notre Dame lose another game? Notre Dame is out of luck?

Post #: 1737

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/4/2014 6:08:36 AM

John Childress

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Joined: 7/15/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

That's where we differ. The playoff isn't about matchups. It's about finding a national champion.

Right, so you are not doing that by bringing in teams who already lost to another team in their conference

This is football, not baseball or basketball

Playoffs are not about best of 3

single game elimination

If you are in the SEC West and you think you are the best in the country WIN YOUR CHAMPIONSHIP!

Otherwise the team that beats you gets to go to the dance

_____________________________

No more acceptance of mediocrity!!!! EVER!

Post #: 1738

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/4/2014 6:08:56 AM

John Childress

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If the SEC is so good then their best should beat anyone else and you still ahve the legit champ

_____________________________

No more acceptance of mediocrity!!!! EVER!

Post #: 1739

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/4/2014 8:03:03 AM

bohumm

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Joined: 10/28/2007
From: Altadena, CA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: John Childress

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

That's where we differ. The playoff isn't about matchups. It's about finding a national champion.

Right, so you are not doing that by bringing in teams who already lost to another team in their conference

This is football, not baseball or basketball

Playoffs are not about best of 3

single game elimination

If you are in the SEC West and you think you are the best in the country WIN YOUR CHAMPIONSHIP!

Otherwise the team that beats you gets to go to the dance

So if K-State, Auburn, and Miss State all win out, KSU gets in before Auburn even though they lost to Auburn at home and Auburn's only loss is at the number one team in the country? What good team has K-State beat this year that doesn't play in the pinball Big 12?

Post #: 1740

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/4/2014 8:32:12 AM

Ian Joseph

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From: Los Angeles, CA
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In that particular scenario, Auburn would and should get in.. But it ain't happening like that.

When MSU loses, all hell breaks loose. Wait for it.

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Post #: 1741

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/4/2014 8:39:47 AM

bohumm

Posts: 5705
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: Altadena, CA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

In that particular scenario, Auburn would and should get in.. But it ain't happening like that.

When MSU loses, all hell breaks loose. Wait for it.

They do have a tough schedule remaining, and chaos is king in college football (money is queen, and queens rule, but still....)

Post #: 1742

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/4/2014 8:40:36 AM

djskillz

Posts: 56863
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: John Childress

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

That's where we differ. The playoff isn't about matchups. It's about finding a national champion.

Right, so you are not doing that by bringing in teams who already lost to another team in their conference

This is football, not baseball or basketball

Playoffs are not about best of 3

single game elimination

If you are in the SEC West and you think you are the best in the country WIN YOUR CHAMPIONSHIP!

Otherwise the team that beats you gets to go to the dance

So if K-State, Auburn, and Miss State all win out, KSU gets in before Auburn even though they lost to Auburn at home and Auburn's only loss is at the number one team in the country? What good team has K-State beat this year that doesn't play in the pinball Big 12?

Exactly. Ditto for Michigan State vs. Oregon.

_____________________________

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

Post #: 1743

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/4/2014 11:10:21 AM

Guest

quote:

ORIGINAL: John Childress

That defeats the purpose of a playoff

You already have the sec championship

The point is to match teams who HAVEN'T played

_____________________________

I am collecting for the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society in memory of my fiance who passed away on 9/9/2006. If anyone would like to donate just go to http://pages.lightthenight.org/mn/TwinCiti09/SMiller Any and all donations will be greatly appreciated.

Post #: 1744

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/4/2014 11:11:04 AM

Guest

quote:

ORIGINAL: John Childress

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

That's where we differ. The playoff isn't about matchups. It's about finding a national champion.

Right, so you are not doing that by bringing in teams who already lost to another team in their conference

This is football, not baseball or basketball

Playoffs are not about best of 3

single game elimination

If you are in the SEC West and you think you are the best in the country WIN YOUR CHAMPIONSHIP!

Otherwise the team that beats you gets to go to the dance

Double

Post #: 1745

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/4/2014 1:20:27 PM

John Childress

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Joined: 7/15/2007
Status: offline

Stop trying to figure ways to get multiple SEC teams in!

The SEC has a format to determine the champ

That is their entry

_____________________________

No more acceptance of mediocrity!!!! EVER!

Post #: 1746

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/4/2014 1:28:48 PM

djskillz

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From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

I'm not trying to get any conference's teams in. I just want the best teams, regardless of where they're from. That seems incredibly unfair to me. If the 4 best teams are from one conference, so be it. We're crowing a national champion here, not a beauty pageant crown. What if you have 2 incredibly close 1-loss teams and they're the best 2 in the country? Maybe that 1 loss came to the other one in September. That's a whole lot different than a playoff environment and they're also completely different teams 4 months later.

I'm the same way in CBB. Should conferences not be able to have multiple #1 seeds in the tourney? I don't think so. If 12 teams from one conference are among the 68 best, so be it. By the same token, if 2 are, so be it. I don't even really like automatic bids.

And again, as Todd mentioned, we're ALREADY picking and choosing between conferences and by default picking who's better. Because only 4 teams will be playoff teams and there are 5 power conferences. So I don't see how it's any different. The playoff needs to expand (and it will), but as always, pick the best teams, regardless of conference or region.

_____________________________

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

Post #: 1747

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/4/2014 1:38:01 PM

Guest

The biggest problem I see Dustin is defining the best team in college football.
The best team doesn't always win. The team who plays the best at the end does. The hottest team so to speak.
Also, we are trying to determine best teams by votes. Votes! Think about that for a second.
It is so ripe for corruption or collusion that it's pits are falling out.

If you can't win your conference championship, how do you get to go the National championship?
By votes? Terrible terrible way to set a field. This isn't gymnastics.

Wild card? Have a play-in game(s) then between 2nd place finishers.

But under no circumstance (in my mind) should a team that didn't win it's conference be voted in to a 4 team field.
When you get to 8 teams or better there stands reason to let 2nd place finishers in.

_____________________________

I am collecting for the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society in memory of my fiance who passed away on 9/9/2006. If anyone would like to donate just go to http://pages.lightthenight.org/mn/TwinCiti09/SMiller Any and all donations will be greatly appreciated.

Post #: 1748

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/4/2014 1:40:48 PM

djskillz

Posts: 56863
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

Ya, I'm sure there's some corruption. But the committee has mainly West Coast and some Big12 ties. I don't really see much SEC bias on that committee. And so far they've voted 3 of the 4 best teams in the country are in the SEC.

And again, you're already defining what conferences are better than others (by votes) by leaving one out. So what's the difference in leaving 2 or 3 out?

< Message edited by djskillz -- 11/4/2014 1:42:49 PM >

_____________________________

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

Post #: 1749

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/4/2014 1:51:20 PM

Guest

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

Ya, I'm sure there's some corruption. But the committee has mainly West Coast and some Big12 ties. I don't really see much SEC bias on that committee. And so far they've voted 3 of the 4 best teams in the country are in the SEC.

And again, you're already defining what conferences are better than others by leaving one out. So what's the difference in leaving 2 or 3 out?

Voting has no place in football.
Win your conference, you get in.
Need a way to determine that?
Head to head conference play.
Conferences with the 4 best records in inter-conference play get in.

Really ... just make it 8 teams next year and be done with it.
A couple wild cards and the conference winners.

_____________________________

I am collecting for the Leukemia and Lymphoma Society in memory of my fiance who passed away on 9/9/2006. If anyone would like to donate just go to http://pages.lightthenight.org/mn/TwinCiti09/SMiller Any and all donations will be greatly appreciated.

Post #: 1750