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RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/9/2014 9:19:30 PM

thebigo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

Exactly. Now do the same thing for defensive positions in the NFL. I bet the SEC dominates. That's not spin. Passion = money = recruiting = better talent/better teams. It's just tough to deny at this point. And the gap continues to get wider.

Pretty sure the Southeast has the best talent pool in the country to pull from.

Post #: 1801

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/9/2014 10:14:13 PM

hagar

Posts: 2757
Joined: 3/3/2014
From: fresburg, ca
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quote:

ORIGINAL: McMurfy

Where current NFL starting QBs played college ball
Conference Number of NFL starters

Quarterbacks
Pac-12 6 Andrew Luck (Stanford), Jake Locker (Washington), Nick Foles (Arizona), Aaron Rodgers (Cal), Carson Palmer (USC), Matt Cassel (USC)
Big Ten 5 Tom Brady (Michigan), Brian Hoyer (Michigan State), Chad Henne (Michigan), Drew Brees (Purdue), Russell Wilson (Wisconsin) SEC 5 Peyton Manning (Tennessee), Eli Manning (Ole Miss), Jay Cutler (Vanderbilt), Matthew Stafford (Georgia), Cam Newton (Auburn) ACC 4 E.J. Manuel (Florida State), Matt Schaub (Virginia), Phillip Rivers (North Carolina State), Matt Ryan (Boston College)
Big 12 4 Geno Smith (West Virginia), Robert Griffin III (Baylor), Sam Bradford (Oklahoma), Ryan Tannehill (Texas A&M)
Mountain West 2 Alex Smith (Utah), Andy Dalton (TCU),
CAA 1 Joe Flacco (Delaware)
Ivy 1 Ryan Fitzgerald (Harvard)
MAC 1 Ben Roethlisberger (Miami, OH)
Ohio Valley 1 Tony Romo (Eastern Illinois)
Southland 1 Josh McCown (Sam Houston State)
WAC 1 Colin Kaepernick (Nevada)
- See more at: http://btn.com/2014/08/06/which-conference-has-most-nfl-starting-qbs/#sthash.gPqf1lWT.dpuf

Derek Carr?

Post #: 1802

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/9/2014 10:20:00 PM

thebigo

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Joined: 7/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hagar

quote:

ORIGINAL: McMurfy

Where current NFL starting QBs played college ball
Conference Number of NFL starters

Quarterbacks
Pac-12 6 Andrew Luck (Stanford), Jake Locker (Washington), Nick Foles (Arizona), Aaron Rodgers (Cal), Carson Palmer (USC), Matt Cassel (USC)
Big Ten 5 Tom Brady (Michigan), Brian Hoyer (Michigan State), Chad Henne (Michigan), Drew Brees (Purdue), Russell Wilson (Wisconsin) SEC 5 Peyton Manning (Tennessee), Eli Manning (Ole Miss), Jay Cutler (Vanderbilt), Matthew Stafford (Georgia), Cam Newton (Auburn) ACC 4 E.J. Manuel (Florida State), Matt Schaub (Virginia), Phillip Rivers (North Carolina State), Matt Ryan (Boston College)
Big 12 4 Geno Smith (West Virginia), Robert Griffin III (Baylor), Sam Bradford (Oklahoma), Ryan Tannehill (Texas A&M)
Mountain West 2 Alex Smith (Utah), Andy Dalton (TCU),
CAA 1 Joe Flacco (Delaware)
Ivy 1 Ryan Fitzgerald (Harvard)
MAC 1 Ben Roethlisberger (Miami, OH)
Ohio Valley 1 Tony Romo (Eastern Illinois)
Southland 1 Josh McCown (Sam Houston State)
WAC 1 Colin Kaepernick (Nevada)
- See more at: http://btn.com/2014/08/06/which-conference-has-most-nfl-starting-qbs/#sthash.gPqf1lWT.dpuf

Derek Carr?

Click the link Einstein.

Post #: 1803

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/9/2014 11:36:43 PM

hagar

Posts: 2757
Joined: 3/3/2014
From: fresburg, ca
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: hagar

quote:

ORIGINAL: McMurfy

Where current NFL starting QBs played college ball
Conference Number of NFL starters

Quarterbacks
Pac-12 6 Andrew Luck (Stanford), Jake Locker (Washington), Nick Foles (Arizona), Aaron Rodgers (Cal), Carson Palmer (USC), Matt Cassel (USC)
Big Ten 5 Tom Brady (Michigan), Brian Hoyer (Michigan State), Chad Henne (Michigan), Drew Brees (Purdue), Russell Wilson (Wisconsin) SEC 5 Peyton Manning (Tennessee), Eli Manning (Ole Miss), Jay Cutler (Vanderbilt), Matthew Stafford (Georgia), Cam Newton (Auburn) ACC 4 E.J. Manuel (Florida State), Matt Schaub (Virginia), Phillip Rivers (North Carolina State), Matt Ryan (Boston College)
Big 12 4 Geno Smith (West Virginia), Robert Griffin III (Baylor), Sam Bradford (Oklahoma), Ryan Tannehill (Texas A&M)
Mountain West 2 Alex Smith (Utah), Andy Dalton (TCU),
CAA 1 Joe Flacco (Delaware)
Ivy 1 Ryan Fitzgerald (Harvard)
MAC 1 Ben Roethlisberger (Miami, OH)
Ohio Valley 1 Tony Romo (Eastern Illinois)
Southland 1 Josh McCown (Sam Houston State)
WAC 1 Colin Kaepernick (Nevada)
- See more at: http://btn.com/2014/08/06/which-conference-has-most-nfl-starting-qbs/#sthash.gPqf1lWT.dpuf

Derek Carr?

Click the link Einstein.

What's a link? Damn I hate being Einstein.

Post #: 1804

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/10/2014 12:08:02 AM

McMurfy

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From: Portland, Oregon
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

Exactly. Now do the same thing for defensive positions in the NFL. I bet the SEC dominates. That's not spin. Passion = money = recruiting = better talent/better teams. It's just tough to deny at this point. And the gap continues to get wider.

Pretty sure the Southeast has the best talent pool in the country to pull from.

And I'm pretty sure the Pac-12 is second and it has two less teams than the SEC

The year Alabma beat Notre Dame,2012, they won the beauty contest with one loss over one loss Oregon.
Either team would have likely beat the Irish.

So again, I'm not saying they're not good, I'm saying it's hard to win a game you're not invited to play in..

that Oregon team, lost one game in OT.

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Post #: 1805

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/10/2014 8:44:10 AM

djskillz

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This is pretty good; explains what I've been talking about:

http://247sports.com/Bolt/NY-Times-produces-map-of-CFB-fandom-32794127

Again, I don't have a dog in the hunt; if anything I "root" for the Big10, which is a terrible, terrible conference right now. But having ties there as well as having lived in Pac12 and SEC country, the difference is stark in the amount of passion and interest from fans. College football is all that is talked about here, all year round. Average people/fans follow recruiting 24/7. And that's with a UT team that has not been good for a while now. It's crazy. Now there are a variety of reasons for that; lack of pro teams in a lot of SEC country, weather factors, talent pool, etc. But it doesn't change the facts.

< Message edited by djskillz -- 11/10/2014 8:45:45 AM >

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Post #: 1806

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/10/2014 8:53:33 AM

Ian Joseph

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I'll go with that, since I went to college in SEC country (I have been War Eagle'd to death). I've seen the tailgaters driving to the Saturday game location on a Wednesday.

But, I'm not sure anyone here is disputing passion.

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Post #: 1807

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/10/2014 8:57:23 AM

Steve Lentz

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Nebraska is rated right where I thought they would be in passion. This state is CRAZY about college football.

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Post #: 1808

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/10/2014 9:00:48 AM

djskillz

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From: Nashville, TN
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No doubt, Steve. Ohio/Nebraska both where I expected. Ohio is pretty amazing with all of the colleges they have that are into football, at every level.

Ian, my point is that passion certainly filters into everything else. It leads to more demands from the public and pressure. It leads to more revenue and attendance, which filters into better facilities, more money pumped in, which leads to better coaches and better recruits, which leads to better teams.

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"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

Post #: 1809

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/10/2014 9:16:17 AM

Mark Anderson

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Winston maybe point shaving now. Probably BS but you never know with this guy.

Post #: 1810

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/10/2014 9:27:50 AM

Ian Joseph

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From: Los Angeles, CA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

Winston maybe point shaving now. Probably BS but you never know with this guy.

It is.. we have to be careful and not believe everything we read in this instant media news day.

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Enjoy the process; crave the goal.

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Post #: 1811

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/10/2014 9:31:04 AM

McMurfy

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Nobody is disputing fandom, facilities or passion, but for the same reason the ACC doesn't always win it all in basketball every year, the SEC wouldn't always win it all in Football had the system not been rigged for their benefit.

You yourself Dustin told us how good Auburn and Georgia are , yet they both sit with two losses.
LSU and Texas A&M , Ole Miss and South Carolina also went from highly ranked to afterthoughts.

Why is that? Because they were overrated, just like every year.

While the Mississippi schools were battling Presbyterian and Tenn Martin, last weekend, the Pac-12 schools were playing that all important extra 9th conference game, against real schools, except ASU which played Notre Dame.

As I've said all along, the SEC has one or two really good teams every year but the rest of the teams are average or worse. The same as every other conference out there.

Their overratedness affects recruiting rankings. Those organizations know their biggest fan base in the South, so they feed the beast.

It's a complicated and well thought out all encompassing fix, but it's definitely in place, although cracks are beginning to show in the foundation.

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Post #: 1812

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/10/2014 9:41:09 AM

bohumm

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How is TCU the consensus Big 12 rep over Baylor at this point when they lost to.........Baylor? So it's not about winning, it's about overall impression. That leads readily to a second SEC team over a Big 12 team if things play out where Miss State and Alabama both win out after Alabama wins Saturday.

Post #: 1813

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/10/2014 9:43:15 AM

djskillz

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Actually, I would dispute that. I think South Carolina is overrated. Texas A&M is all about youth at QB but they still have a ton of talent. I firmly believe that Georgia/Auburn/Ole Miss are all top 10 teams in the country along with Bama/Miss St. And LSU is a top 20 team, at worst. Their losses are to each other. Do you really think Auburn/Ole Miss are much worse than Alabama/Miss St? Look what has happened when these teams play each other. Incredibly close games. You can't have it both ways. Either Alabama and Miss St are very good and amongst the best in the country (and those other teams are too) or none of them are.

Cracks in the foundation? They've won 7 of the last 8 national title games, and had the 8th all but won last year. With 4 different schools! Again, the gap is only widening really. There are more top recruiting classes, more money, better coaches, and more great teams in the SEC with each passing year. Which is probably bad for the sport.

< Message edited by djskillz -- 11/10/2014 9:44:43 AM >

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"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

Post #: 1814

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/10/2014 9:46:18 AM

Ian Joseph

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From: Los Angeles, CA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: McMurfy

Nobody is disputing fandom, facilities or passion, but for the same reason the ACC doesn't always win it all in basketball every year, the SEC wouldn't always win it all in Football had the system not been rigged for their benefit.

You yourself Dustin told us how good Auburn and Georgia are , yet they both sit with two losses.
LSU and Texas A&M , Ole Miss and South Carolina also went from highly ranked to afterthoughts.

Why is that? Because they were overrated, just like every year.

While the Mississippi schools were battling Presbyterian and Tenn Martin, last weekend, the Pac-12 schools were playing that all important extra 9th conference game, against real schools, except ASU which played Notre Dame.

As I've said all along, the SEC has one or two really good teams every year but the rest of the teams are average or worse. The same as every other conference out there.

Their overratedness affects recruiting rankings. Those organizations know their biggest fan base in the South, so they feed the beast.

It's a complicated and well thought out all encompassing fix, but it's definitely in place, although cracks are beginning to show in the foundation.

I think the one thing we can agree on is the new playoff format is a big, albeit long overdue step in the right direction. There has long been too much influence by boosters and regional bias in polls and rankings and the closer we get to eliminating that (as much as we can, anyway) and putting forth a proper avenue to crown a true champion, the better things will be in the sport.

Its not perfect right now, but its certainly something and infinitely better than what we've had for YEARS. It might take a few years to truly get it right, but after all this time, we're finally actually moving in the right direction.

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Post #: 1815

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/10/2014 9:48:38 AM

Ian Joseph

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From: Los Angeles, CA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

How is TCU the consensus Big 12 rep over Baylor at this point when they lost to.........Baylor? So it's not about winning, it's about overall impression. That leads readily to a second SEC team over a Big 12 team if things play out where Miss State and Alabama both win out after Alabama wins Saturday.

Maybe, though if TCU keeps scoring 50 and 60 on major college football programs, they wont be able to ignore that. Again, that 80 spot they dropped a few weeks ago is not going to go unnoticed in the final discussions (assuming theyre in the position to be discussed).

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Post #: 1816

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/10/2014 9:49:07 AM

djskillz

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With ya there on the playoff, guys. Will be even better when it's 8, and eventually 16 teams.

On TCU, I think they're good. I just can't completely take a team serious that also gives up 50-60 points. I still wouldn't be shocked at all if TCU and Baylor both lose again.

_____________________________

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."

Post #: 1817

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/10/2014 9:55:57 AM

Ian Joseph

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From: Los Angeles, CA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

Actually, I would dispute that. I think South Carolina is overrated. Texas A&M is all about youth at QB but they still have a ton of talent. I firmly believe that Georgia/Auburn/Ole Miss are all top 10 teams in the country along with Bama/Miss St. And LSU is a top 20 team, at worst. Their losses are to each other. Do you really think Auburn/Ole Miss are much worse than Alabama/Miss St? Look what has happened when these teams play each other. Incredibly close games. You can't have it both ways. Either Alabama and Miss St are very good and amongst the best in the country (and those other teams are too) or none of them are.

Cracks in the foundation? They've won 7 of the last 8 national title games, and had the 8th all but won last year. With 4 different schools! Again, the gap is only widening really. There are more top recruiting classes, more money, better coaches, and more great teams in the SEC with each passing year. Which is probably bad for the sport.

And see, I don't agree with the first part of your statement. Five of the top 10 teams in the COUNTRY are from the SEC? I don't buy that at all. Not at the moment and not at the onset of the season, when the regional bias is at an all time high.

There is just too much football being played throughout the country for at least half of the top teams being not only in the same region, but damn near the same zip code. I don't buy it.

Statements like that totally discount football being played in Texas, where they live football more than any part of non-Texas SEC country. Florida puts out major high school players and they tend to stay local (and theyre not going to University of Florida right now). I wont even talk about California and my high school, which is a factory of NCAA stars and NFL studs. And then there is the Midwest lunch bucket, cornfed brutes that play out that way.

Sorry, but the best college football teams don't all reside in the SEC. Not even close.

But, we get to see this year, finally.

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Hate the message, not the messenger.

Enjoy the process; crave the goal.

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Post #: 1818

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/10/2014 9:57:41 AM

Ian Joseph

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quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

With ya there on the playoff, guys. Will be even better when it's 8, and eventually 16 teams.

On TCU, I think they're good. I just can't completely take a team serious that also gives up 50-60 points. I still wouldn't be shocked at all if TCU and Baylor both lose again.

I don't think it will ever be 16. That will require the season to be shortened. And the universities will fight that too and nail. It took us 25 years to get what we have today lol.

At most, it will be eight. And that's after they end up going to 6 and have some sort of wild card/play-in system, which I would NOT be opposed to one bit.

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Hate the message, not the messenger.

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RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/10/2014 10:02:10 AM

John Childress

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4 is enough
maybe 8
You don't need 16 teams

No way is the best team in the nation NOT among the top 8 rated teams

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Post #: 1820

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/10/2014 10:14:39 AM

djskillz

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From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

Actually, I would dispute that. I think South Carolina is overrated. Texas A&M is all about youth at QB but they still have a ton of talent. I firmly believe that Georgia/Auburn/Ole Miss are all top 10 teams in the country along with Bama/Miss St. And LSU is a top 20 team, at worst. Their losses are to each other. Do you really think Auburn/Ole Miss are much worse than Alabama/Miss St? Look what has happened when these teams play each other. Incredibly close games. You can't have it both ways. Either Alabama and Miss St are very good and amongst the best in the country (and those other teams are too) or none of them are.

Cracks in the foundation? They've won 7 of the last 8 national title games, and had the 8th all but won last year. With 4 different schools! Again, the gap is only widening really. There are more top recruiting classes, more money, better coaches, and more great teams in the SEC with each passing year. Which is probably bad for the sport.

And see, I don't agree with the first part of your statement. Five of the top 10 teams in the COUNTRY are from the SEC? I don't buy that at all. Not at the moment and not at the onset of the season, when the regional bias is at an all time high.

There is just too much football being played throughout the country for at least half of the top teams being not only in the same region, but damn near the same zip code. I don't buy it.

Statements like that totally discount football being played in Texas, where they live football more than any part of non-Texas SEC country. Florida puts out major high school players and they tend to stay local (and theyre not going to University of Florida right now). I wont even talk about California and my high school, which is a factory of NCAA stars and NFL studs. And then there is the Midwest lunch bucket, cornfed brutes that play out that way.

Sorry, but the best college football teams don't all reside in the SEC. Not even close.

But, we get to see this year, finally.

Again, it's all or nothing, Ian IMO. To dispute that at least 4 of those teams (the SEC West teams, because they play each other) aren't incredibly, incredibly close doesn't really make sense. Any of those games could have easily gone another way. Bama probably beats Ole Miss at home, for example. Ole Miss loses their game to Auburn on one of the craziest ending plays ever. Etc. Either you believe that all of those teams are among the best, or none of them. And I find it REALLY tough to believe that none of them are. Again, the SEC has dominated college football, with all different schools, for the last 8-10 years.

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Post #: 1821

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/10/2014 10:33:00 AM

Ian Joseph

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They certainly have won national titles, but I don't know about dominated, since they've had very limited competition against top opposition outside of their conference. But, I digress on that; they can only play who they schedule (and I wont touch that).

Now, whatever SEC team(s) get into the playoffs (and it will still only be one), they will have to beat two top tier non-SEC schools to win. I don't think they can do it this year. Hell, they wont beat the first one they play.

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RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/10/2014 10:35:17 AM

djskillz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

They certainly have won national titles, but I don't know about dominated, since they've had very limited competition against top opposition outside of their conference. But, I digress on that; they can only play who they schedule (and I wont touch that).

Now, whatever SEC team(s) get into the playoffs (and it will still only be one), they will have to beat two top tier non-SEC schools to win. I don't think they can do it this year. Hell, they wont beat the first one they play.

I will gladly bet on that. And I still think it will be 2. Maybe even 3 still if FSU loses to Florida or Miami.

How do you make the argument that Ole Miss/Auburn are significantly worse than Alabama/Miss St?

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Post #: 1823

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/10/2014 11:18:36 AM

McMurfy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

They certainly have won national titles, but I don't know about dominated, since they've had very limited competition against top opposition outside of their conference. But, I digress on that; they can only play who they schedule (and I wont touch that).

Now, whatever SEC team(s) get into the playoffs (and it will still only be one), they will have to beat two top tier non-SEC schools to win. I don't think they can do it this year. Hell, they wont beat the first one they play.

I will gladly bet on that. And I still think it will be 2. Maybe even 3 still if FSU loses to Florida or Miami.

How do you make the argument that Ole Miss/Auburn are significantly worse than Alabama/Miss St?

You make that argument because they lost those games...a loss is a loss
unless close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades and the SEC.

Listen to yourself, your arguing that they lost close so they deserve consideration?
Who else gets that consideration in competitive sports?

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Post #: 1824

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/10/2014 11:24:11 AM

djskillz

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From: Nashville, TN
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I'm not saying they get consideration at all. A loss is a loss. I'm saying that I think it's foolish to assume there is a wide gap between Ole Miss/Auburn and Alabama/Miss St. So if you believe those are two of the top 4 teams in the country, and they are BARELY better than those other 2 teams, it means Auburn/Ole Miss are still better than just about everyone else in the country as well. A lot of it is just pure schedule. Home field is huge. So getting certain teams at home in certain years effects everything.

This is what I believe (there's no way of proving it right or wrong):

FSU in the SEC West would lose at least 2, maybe 3 games this year.
ND would probably lose 5.
ASU would lose at least 3. Oregon I think would lose 2.
Michigan State/OSU would lose 3-4 each on the season. Basically they'd be LSU IMO.
TCU/Baylor/KSU would lose 2-3 games each. KSU already lost to Auburn, at home.

The SEC West may have have the toughest CFB division, this year, in the history of the sport.

< Message edited by djskillz -- 11/10/2014 11:26:38 AM >

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Post #: 1825