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RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/10/2014 11:31:03 AM

McMurfy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

I'm not saying they get consideration at all. A loss is a loss. I'm saying that I think it's foolish to assume there is a wide gap between Ole Miss/Auburn and Alabama/Miss St. So if you believe those are two of the top 4 teams in the country, and they are BARELY better than those other 2 teams, it means Auburn/Ole Miss are still better than just about everyone else in the country as well. A lot of it is just pure schedule. Home field is huge. So getting certain teams at home in certain years effects everything.

This is what I believe (there's no way of proving it right or wrong):

FSU in the SEC West would lose at least 2, maybe 3 games this year.
ND would probably lose 5.
ASU would lose at least 3. Oregon I think would lose 2.
Michigan State/OSU would lose 3-4 each on the season. Basically they'd be LSU IMO.
TCU/Baylor/KSU would lose 2-3 games each. KSU already lost to Auburn, at home.

The SEC West may have have the toughest CFB division, this year, in the history of the sport.

And any of the SEC west, if they travelled to Eugene, Columbus, LA, or Fort Worth would likely lose as well.
But wait, they don't play out of conference road games.

Georgia and now Texas A&M both backed out against Oregon.
Tennessee didn't and lost both games.

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Post #: 1826

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/10/2014 11:33:34 AM

McMurfy

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How ridicluous to say that the SEC west schedule this year is possibly the toughest schedule in the history of the game.
Come on, that is just nonsense.

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Post #: 1827

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/10/2014 11:34:37 AM

djskillz

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Tennessee isn't even in the top 10 in the conference in the SEC. While Oregon is #1 in the Pac12 and has been for a few years running. That's kind of my point on the lack of fairness in judging conference vs. conference records.

I disagree on them losing those games if they traveled there. But the way the system is set up, why would you? If you know it is almost impossible to survive the gauntlet that is your conference, why would you schedule ANOTHER tough out of conference game?

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Post #: 1828

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/10/2014 11:36:23 AM

djskillz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: McMurfy

How ridicluous to say that the SEC west schedule this year is possibly the toughest schedule in the history of the game.
Come on, that is just nonsense.

I didn't say the schedule. I said the division. I believe that they legitimately have 4 of the top 10 teams in the country, probably better than that. All within 1 division. And I think LSU is a top 20 team and A&M is probably top 25-30ish. Hell, Arkansas would compete for a title in the Big10 right now IMO. But they have had an absolutely brutal schedule. A&M/Alabama/Georgia/Auburn/Miss St/LSU/OleMiss.

Put it this way: would you put the top 6 of the Pac12 up against the top 6 of the SEC, Murf?

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Post #: 1829

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/10/2014 11:41:44 AM

djskillz

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Look at it matchups-wise.

Alabama-Oregon
Miss St-ASU
Auburn-UCLA
Ole Miss-Utah
Georgia-Arizona
LSU-USC
A&M-Stanford

Does the Pac12 win a single one of those games? I think Vegas would have them the underdogs in each game. And the odds would be stacked even more heavily against other conferences.

< Message edited by djskillz -- 11/10/2014 11:44:41 AM >

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RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/10/2014 11:45:35 AM

McMurfy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

Look at it matchups-wise.

Alabama-Oregon
Miss St-ASU
Auburn-UCLA
Ole Miss-Utah
Georgia-Arizona
LSU-USC
A&M-Stanford

Does the Pac12 win a single one of those games? I think Vegas would have them the underdogs in each game. And the odds would be stacked even heavily against other conferences.

I think they do, I'd say each conference wins three of those and the 4th goes either way.

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Post #: 1831

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/10/2014 11:46:21 AM

djskillz

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Well, we completely disagree then. I see them winning maybe 1-2 max. And again, I think both of those would be upsets if you're talking Vegas lines.

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Post #: 1832

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/10/2014 11:47:33 AM

McMurfy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: McMurfy

How ridicluous to say that the SEC west schedule this year is possibly the toughest schedule in the history of the game.
Come on, that is just nonsense.

I didn't say the schedule. I said the division. I believe that they legitimately have 4 of the top 10 teams in the country, probably better than that. All within 1 division. And I think LSU is a top 20 team and A&M is probably top 25-30ish. Hell, Arkansas would compete for a title in the Big10 right now IMO. But they have had an absolutely brutal schedule. A&M/Alabama/Georgia/Auburn/Miss St/LSU/OleMiss.

Put it this way: would you put the top 6 of the Pac12 up against the top 6 of the SEC, Murf?

Again,
Texas A&M, and Missouri, who almost never competed for the title in the Big 8 or Big 12 have more than held their own in the SEC

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Post #: 1833

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/10/2014 11:49:20 AM

djskillz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: McMurfy

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: McMurfy

How ridicluous to say that the SEC west schedule this year is possibly the toughest schedule in the history of the game.
Come on, that is just nonsense.

I didn't say the schedule. I said the division. I believe that they legitimately have 4 of the top 10 teams in the country, probably better than that. All within 1 division. And I think LSU is a top 20 team and A&M is probably top 25-30ish. Hell, Arkansas would compete for a title in the Big10 right now IMO. But they have had an absolutely brutal schedule. A&M/Alabama/Georgia/Auburn/Miss St/LSU/OleMiss.

Put it this way: would you put the top 6 of the Pac12 up against the top 6 of the SEC, Murf?

Again,
Texas A&M, who almost never competed for the title in the Big 8 or Big 12 have more than held their own in the SEC

Couple things, again:

1) Kevin Sumlin
2) They're a completely different program than they were then.
3) Texas is down, so Texas A&M has benefitted in huge ways both economically (see their stadium upgrades, etc.) and recruiting-wise. They've finally started to pull in stellar recruiting classes.
4) They're something like 7th best in the conference right now. That's not as well as they were doing in the Big12.

Missouri has held their own? How? They've been worse than Texas A&M. Their record is only better because the East is significantly worse than the West.

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Post #: 1834

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/10/2014 11:49:58 AM

McMurfy

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Throw Baylor in the SEC and they'd tear some shit up.
But, because they are not, the old SEC augument is to question their defense and team in general.

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Post #: 1835

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/10/2014 11:51:24 AM

djskillz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: McMurfy

Throw Baylor in the SEC and they'd tear some shit up.
But, because they are not, the old SEC augument is to question their defense and team in general.

I don't agree. I think they'd be basically where A&M are; 7th or so in the conference.

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Post #: 1836

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/10/2014 11:53:48 AM

McMurfy

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Sugar Bowl last year, Oklahoma man handles Alabama.
That is whay we will see more of going forward.
When the games are actually played, the SEC will win some and lose some like every other conference.
They will be exposed as being not any better than anybody else.

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Post #: 1837

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/10/2014 11:56:51 AM

djskillz

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We shall see. I think it will be the opposite. The differences will be even greater when the games (unlike OK/Alabama) actually mean something.

How about FSU? Only 2.5 point favorites vs. Miami this week. Again, I could easily see them losing either that game or to Florida.

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Post #: 1838

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/10/2014 11:59:47 AM

McMurfy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: McMurfy

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: McMurfy

How ridicluous to say that the SEC west schedule this year is possibly the toughest schedule in the history of the game.
Come on, that is just nonsense.

I didn't say the schedule. I said the division. I believe that they legitimately have 4 of the top 10 teams in the country, probably better than that. All within 1 division. And I think LSU is a top 20 team and A&M is probably top 25-30ish. Hell, Arkansas would compete for a title in the Big10 right now IMO. But they have had an absolutely brutal schedule. A&M/Alabama/Georgia/Auburn/Miss St/LSU/OleMiss.

Put it this way: would you put the top 6 of the Pac12 up against the top 6 of the SEC, Murf?

Again,
Texas A&M, who almost never competed for the title in the Big 8 or Big 12 have more than held their own in the SEC

Couple things, again:

1) Kevin Sumlin
2) They're a completely different program than they were then.
3) Texas is down, so Texas A&M has benefitted in huge ways both economically (see their stadium upgrades, etc.) and recruiting-wise. They've finally started to pull in stellar recruiting classes.
4) They're something like 7th best in the conference right now. That's not as well as they were doing in the Big12.

Missouri has held their own? How? They've been worse than Texas A&M. Their record is only better because the East is significantly worse than the West.

How?
Missouri has been in the SEC for 3years and they're on the cusp of back to back SEC East titles.
But the SEC west teams are all given favorable rankings for beating highly ranked SEC East teams like South Carolina, Georgia, Florida and Missouri.
Now you tell me those teams are no good?

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Post #: 1839

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/10/2014 12:02:30 PM

djskillz

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Again, the East is solid, but it is a lot worse than the West. Those teams aren't highly ranked because they're beating the East. They're highly ranked because they're the best teams.

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Post #: 1840

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/10/2014 12:04:37 PM

McMurfy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

We shall see. I think it will be the opposite. The differences will be even greater when the games (unlike OK/Alabama) actually mean something.

How about FSU? Only 2.5 point favorites vs. Miami this week. Again, I could easily see them losing either that game or to Florida.

So could I, but they haven't lost in nearly two years and they are the defending champs.

FSU, like every other school outside of the SEC has to stand on their own merits, and not rely on the merits of their conference.

Think about that, every other school is judged on their own accomplishments, while the SEC schools use their conference achievements to argue their case.

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Post #: 1841

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/10/2014 12:06:11 PM

djskillz

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That's what happens when your conference is that much better than others. The current playoff committee obviously feels that way too, without SEC bias. Hell, it's a lot of West Coast and Big12 members on there.

And again, they've proven it with championships.

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Post #: 1842

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/10/2014 12:10:05 PM

djskillz

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It's very possible this year that by the time the playoffs occur FSU will not have played a single top 25 team.

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Post #: 1843

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/10/2014 12:20:15 PM

McMurfy

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Quit saying that there are a lot of West and Big 12 on there.

The chairman is an SEC guy
Archie Manning, although he stepped down, is an SEC guy.
There is a guy from Clemson, let's call him East
Oliver Luck, West Virginai, let's call him East
The Former Commisoner of the Big East, obviously East

Conoleeza Rice, maybe Stanford, but she is from Alabama and said she grew up loving football.
Let's call her Neutral
Air Force guy, lets call him neutral
Barry Alvarez, North
USA today guy, let's call him neutral
Willingham, he coached at 7 schools, two of them in the West, but also Notre Dame, I say at least neutral.

Jernstedt, an NCAA guy, who did go to Oregon, I'll call him West
Pat Haden, West

So overall, it's a pretty balanced group although on a couple of occassions you've mentioned or implied a lot of non SEC or at least Western influence.

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RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/10/2014 12:27:34 PM

McMurfy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

It's very possible this year that by the time the playoffs occur FSU will not have played a single top 25 team.

Well then imagine how pissed you'd be if a bunch of ACC teams all started highly ranked, only to play their way put of the Top25 after FSU beat them.

That is what those of us outside of the SEC fanbase face.

LSU
Georgia
Texas A&M
South Carolina
Mississippi
Ole Miss
Miss St
Auburn
Alabama

have all been ranked in the Top 10 this year.
Collectively, they have 18 losses between them.

< Message edited by McMurfy -- 11/10/2014 12:29:19 PM >

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RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/10/2014 12:27:42 PM

thebigo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: McMurfy

Quit saying that there are a lot of West and Big 12 on there.

The chairman is an SEC guy
Archie Manning, although he stepped down, is an SEC guy.
There is a guy from Clemson, let's call him East
Oliver Luck, West Virginai, let's call him East
The Former Commisoner of the Big East, obviously East

Conoleeza Rice, maybe Stanford, but she is from Alabama and said she grew up loving football.
Let's call her Neutral
Air Force guy, lets call him neutral
Barry Alvarez, North
USA today guy, let's call him neutral
Willingham, he coached at 7 schools, two of them in the West, but also Notre Dame, I say at least neutral.

Jernstedt, an NCAA guy, who did go to Oregon, I'll call him West
Pat Haden, West

So overall, it's a pretty balanced group although on a couple of occassions you've mentioned or implied a lot of non SEC or at least Western influence.

So no SEC bias.

Post #: 1846

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/10/2014 12:29:39 PM

McMurfy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: McMurfy

Quit saying that there are a lot of West and Big 12 on there.

The chairman is an SEC guy
Archie Manning, although he stepped down, is an SEC guy.
There is a guy from Clemson, let's call him East
Oliver Luck, West Virginai, let's call him East
The Former Commisoner of the Big East, obviously East

Conoleeza Rice, maybe Stanford, but she is from Alabama and said she grew up loving football.
Let's call her Neutral
Air Force guy, lets call him neutral
Barry Alvarez, North
USA today guy, let's call him neutral
Willingham, he coached at 7 schools, two of them in the West, but also Notre Dame, I say at least neutral.

Jernstedt, an NCAA guy, who did go to Oregon, I'll call him West
Pat Haden, West

So overall, it's a pretty balanced group although on a couple of occassions you've mentioned or implied a lot of non SEC or at least Western influence.

So no SEC bias.

No, not on the commitee.
The commitee will see to it I believe that only one SEC team gets in.

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Post #: 1847

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/10/2014 12:30:12 PM

thebigo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: McMurfy

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

It's very possible this year that by the time the playoffs occur FSU will not have played a single top 25 team.

Well then imagine how pissed you'd be if a bunch of ACC teams all started highly ranked, only to play their way put of the Top25 after FSU beat them.

That is what those of us outside of the SEC fanbase face.

LSU
Georgia
Texas A&M
South Carolina
Mississippi
Ole Miss
Miss St
Auburn
Alabama

have all been ranked in the Top 10 this year.
Collectively, they have a 18 losses between them.

I'm not in the SEC fanbase. Skilz is not in the SEC fanbase. We're of the opinion that the SEC is easily the strongest NCAA football conference going.

Post #: 1848

RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/10/2014 12:42:17 PM

McMurfy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: McMurfy

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

It's very possible this year that by the time the playoffs occur FSU will not have played a single top 25 team.

Well then imagine how pissed you'd be if a bunch of ACC teams all started highly ranked, only to play their way put of the Top25 after FSU beat them.

That is what those of us outside of the SEC fanbase face.

LSU
Georgia
Texas A&M
South Carolina
Mississippi
Ole Miss
Miss St
Auburn
Alabama

have all been ranked in the Top 10 this year.
Collectively, they have a 18 losses between them.

I'm not in the SEC fanbase. Skilz is not in the SEC fanbase. We're of the opinion that the SEC is easily the strongest NCAA football conference going.

It certainly deserves to be in the conversation, but let's see how they do against teams not in their conference.
The track record is that they do no better or worse than any other conference.
Measure it by Bowl Games or head to heads.
But they have certainly done well in the past couple of years when placed in the title game.

They beat an Oregon team on a last second field goal with a QB who was likely paid
They beat their own team once
They beat a Texas team that lost their QB on the first play of the game
They beat a Notre Dame team that clearly had a nice season, but many flukey wins to get there.
They beat a couple of Ohio State teams which led to the commonly held belief that the Big 10 is weak.
They beat an Oklahoma team in a close 10 point game

Everybody likes to say 7 out of the last 8
Why not say 9 of 16 in the BCS era?
Impressive? Yes
Enough to dismiss everybody else outside of the SEC? No

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RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/10/2014 2:03:37 PM

djskillz

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Those are the last 8 title games, Murf. There's no way around that. There just isn't. EVEN if you stretch it to 16 years and say "well, they've only won 9 out of the last 16" do you realize what you're saying? You're saying the SEC has won more than all the other conferences combined in the last 16 years. And the gap has only grown larger over the last 8. So I don't see how you are continuing to argue that any other conference is comparable. Head to head matchups create all kinds of problems because you're not placing a conference's 1 vs. another conference's 1, etc. Bowl games you have the same issue, especially when there's so much depth in the SEC. Titles and NFL talent speak volume, and the SEC has been dominating in both categories the last several years.

As for the committee, "East" is not "SEC".

The Chair, Jeff Long, is not from the SEC, and doesn't really have SEC ties. He has a ton of BigEast/ACC/Big10 ties.
Barry Alvarez: clearly a Big10 guy.
Lt. General Mike Gould: Air Force. No real ties elsewhere.
Pat Haden; clearly a Pac12 guy.
Tom Jernstedt: clearly a Pac12 guy. Oregon through and through.
Oliver Luck: a West Virginia and Texas guy. Big12. And a high-profile son that was obviously a Pac12 guy.
Archie is not a part of it.
Tom Osborne: Clearly a Big10/Big12 guy.
Dan Radakovich: Experience everywhere really, but mainly in the BigEast/ACC
Condoleeza Rice: Stanford is clearly her biggest connection. If anything, certainly Pac12.
Mike Tranghese: About as big of a BigEast homer as you can get.
Steve Wieberg: Missouri guy. So I guess you could say SEC, though his history has mainly been in the Big12.
Tyrone Willingham: Almost all of his tenure in the Pac12 or Big10, or Notre Dame (midwest)

By my count that is:
Pac12: 3 1/2
Big12: 2
Big10: 2 1/2
ACC: 2 1/2
SEC: 1/2
Neutral: 1 (AF guy)

Again, you can maybe argue 1 guy on the whole committee with SEC ties. And that's tenuous at best. Almost all of the committee is Pac12/Big10/Big12/ACC. So where's the SEC bias? If anything there's an anti-SEC bias there.

And clearly so far this committee sees the SEC as the dominant conference.

< Message edited by djskillz -- 11/10/2014 2:18:49 PM >

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