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RE: College Football (Future Vikings!)

 
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RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/12/2014 9:20:41 AM   
Andy Lowe


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The loss to Va Tech was a bad loss, but a couple things

1. It was JT Barrett's 2nd collegiate game, and Miller got hurt late summer, which means Barrett had very little time to prepare.

2. Bud Foster (Va Tech) D coord had a brilliant scheme, which basically involved a lot of blitzing, and leaving Va Tech's talented corners on an island. And it worked to perfection.

Actually our almost lost to Penn St, was in some ways worse than the loss to Va Tech.

That being said, anyone who follows recruiting knows this OSU team is as talented as any team in the country, there are a ton of future Pros on this squad, and on a neutral field, I'm pretty confident we could play with anyone.
Post #: 1876
RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/12/2014 9:22:46 AM   
Andy Lowe


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BTW - if Miss St has a close loss to Bama, I could easily see 2 SEC teams in the Final Four, problem is both teams still have brutal games left, including a potential SEC Championship game.

I'm now wondering with final 4, if conferences will just ditch the championship game, seems kind of stupid and completely irrelevant in today's landscape.

What's worth more money to the conference a championship game, or 2 (or more) final four games????????
Post #: 1877
RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/12/2014 9:24:54 AM   
Andy Lowe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

Hard and fast rules don't work with a limited field, nor do won-lost records. Unfortunately for Art, it takes a thoughtful selection process with frank analysis. I know out here, there were a couple of years where the conference (PAC 10) was weak but USC was clearly one of the best few teams in the country. The same thing could be happening in the Big 10 this year if Ohio State turns out to be a really good team who had one bad game against a decent team. At the same time, it's ludicrous that TCU is ahead of a team with the same record that it lost to and ahead of a team with the same record (Alabama) that has played a much tougher schedule. I couldn't give a shit if they score a lot of points---they would be undefeated if they weren't one of the few teams that has given up over 60. In fact, that might be a rule I could get with: Give up over 60----60---points and you cannot advance. But the fact is that like almost everything in college football, a lot of this will be a financial calculation: viewers like offense, some teams bring a lot more spending fans with them, let's have celebrity fans on the panel (Condaleeza Rice?), etc.

But for God's sake, don't let a kid trade his Auto Zone Bowl watch for a tattoo.



Exactly. Agreed on all. Especially the 60 point argument. No way TCU should be above Baylor and Alabama IMO.

And agreed on Florida State. THIS team can't be judged on last year's performance. This team has not won any games impressively really all year.

In the end, there's so much left to decide. If Alabama wins out, they're not only in the top 4 but likely #1. Likewise, if Miss. St. wins out with the exception of a loss to Alabama, they're still likely in the final 4 with their schedule. They will have 1 loss at that point against the toughest schedule in the country (road against Bama/LSU/Ole Miss yet they will not play in their conference title game if that happens. How could the committee leave them out? There'd be no good argument of a 1-loss TCU/OSU/Oregon/ASU team over a 1-loss MSU team.

Could really see anyone in the top 8 still losing a game, or even 2.


I have no problem with TCU ahead of Baylor. The game was in Baylor and TCU was virtually in control for most of the game.

Anyone who watched the game, knows you could flip a coin, the winner didn't prove much IMO. The winner was almost irrelevant.

To me it's more important to look at the whole body of work
Post #: 1878
RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/12/2014 9:25:04 AM   
djskillz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Lowe

BTW - if Miss St has a close loss to Bama, I could easily see 2 SEC teams in the Final Four, problem is both teams still have brutal games left, including a potential SEC Championship game.

I'm now wondering with final 4, if conferences will just ditch the championship game, seems kind of stupid and completely irrelevant in today's landscape.

What's worth more money to the conference a championship game, or 2 (or more) final four games????????


Yep, Andy. And honestly, that could be the thing that gets a Big12 team in. If they have a conference title game this year, I think there's much less chance one makes it.

On the flip side, no conference title game could really help MSU. If they lose to Alabama in a close one, as you say, but win out otherwise, and Alabama wins out (plus the title game), they're both virtual locks to be in the final 4 IMO. I certainly wouldn't bet on that happening though; a few tough games left for each.

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Post #: 1879
RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/12/2014 9:27:08 AM   
djskillz


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Could see that argument, Andy. And I agree Ohio State is a solid team with a lot of talent, plus the 2nd best coach in the country in Urban Meyer IMO. Give him a month to prepare for anyone and it's tough to bet against him.

But the same thing applies to me in overall body of work. I have a tough time putting a 1-loss OSU team, with their schedule, against many 2-loss teams in the country.

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RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/12/2014 9:32:03 AM   
Andy Lowe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

Could see that argument, Andy. And I agree Ohio State is a solid team with a lot of talent, plus the 2nd best coach in the country in Urban Meyer IMO. Give him a month to prepare for anyone and it's tough to bet against him.

But the same thing applies to me in overall body of work. I have a tough time putting a 1-loss OSU team, with their schedule, against many 2-loss teams in the country.


Agreed, personally I don't think a big 10 teams deserves to be in the final four, but I think we are the only team from the Big 10 that has a legitimate chance to win it.
Post #: 1881
RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/12/2014 10:03:12 AM   
Guest
quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

Hard and fast rules don't work with a limited field, nor do won-lost records. Unfortunately for Art, it takes a thoughtful selection process with frank analysis. I know out here, there were a couple of years where the conference (PAC 10) was weak but USC was clearly one of the best few teams in the country. The same thing could be happening in the Big 10 this year if Ohio State turns out to be a really good team who had one bad game against a decent team. At the same time, it's ludicrous that TCU is ahead of a team with the same record that it lost to and ahead of a team with the same record (Alabama) that has played a much tougher schedule. I couldn't give a shit if they score a lot of points---they would be undefeated if they weren't one of the few teams that has given up over 60. In fact, that might be a rule I could get with: Give up over 60----60---points and you cannot advance. But the fact is that like almost everything in college football, a lot of this will be a financial calculation: viewers like offense, some teams bring a lot more spending fans with them, let's have celebrity fans on the panel (Condaleeza Rice?), etc.

But for God's sake, don't let a kid trade his Auto Zone Bowl watch for a tattoo.



Exactly. Agreed on all. Especially the 60 point argument. No way TCU should be above Baylor and Alabama IMO.

And agreed on Florida State. THIS team can't be judged on last year's performance. This team has not won any games impressively really all year.

In the end, there's so much left to decide. If Alabama wins out, they're not only in the top 4 but likely #1. Likewise, if Miss. St. wins out with the exception of a loss to Alabama, they're still likely in the final 4 with their schedule. They will have 1 loss at that point against the toughest schedule in the country (road against Bama/LSU/Ole Miss yet they will not play in their conference title game if that happens. How could the committee leave them out? There'd be no good argument of a 1-loss TCU/OSU/Oregon/ASU team over a 1-loss MSU team.

Could really see anyone in the top 8 still losing a game, or even 2.

I have a problem when "impressive" is part of the criteria as well.
It's like two parents bragging about their children.
A win is a win is a win ... except in college football.

You can't say that the NFC South champ shouldn't be in the playoffs.

Teams shouldn't be selected. They should win their way in.

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  Post #: 1882
RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/12/2014 10:09:34 AM   
djskillz


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I agree, Art. But with only 4 teams, that's how it has to be. It will be better when there are 8 or 16.

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Post #: 1883
RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/12/2014 10:11:40 AM   
Trekgeekscott


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Art

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

Hard and fast rules don't work with a limited field, nor do won-lost records. Unfortunately for Art, it takes a thoughtful selection process with frank analysis. I know out here, there were a couple of years where the conference (PAC 10) was weak but USC was clearly one of the best few teams in the country. The same thing could be happening in the Big 10 this year if Ohio State turns out to be a really good team who had one bad game against a decent team. At the same time, it's ludicrous that TCU is ahead of a team with the same record that it lost to and ahead of a team with the same record (Alabama) that has played a much tougher schedule. I couldn't give a shit if they score a lot of points---they would be undefeated if they weren't one of the few teams that has given up over 60. In fact, that might be a rule I could get with: Give up over 60----60---points and you cannot advance. But the fact is that like almost everything in college football, a lot of this will be a financial calculation: viewers like offense, some teams bring a lot more spending fans with them, let's have celebrity fans on the panel (Condaleeza Rice?), etc.

But for God's sake, don't let a kid trade his Auto Zone Bowl watch for a tattoo.



Exactly. Agreed on all. Especially the 60 point argument. No way TCU should be above Baylor and Alabama IMO.

And agreed on Florida State. THIS team can't be judged on last year's performance. This team has not won any games impressively really all year.

In the end, there's so much left to decide. If Alabama wins out, they're not only in the top 4 but likely #1. Likewise, if Miss. St. wins out with the exception of a loss to Alabama, they're still likely in the final 4 with their schedule. They will have 1 loss at that point against the toughest schedule in the country (road against Bama/LSU/Ole Miss yet they will not play in their conference title game if that happens. How could the committee leave them out? There'd be no good argument of a 1-loss TCU/OSU/Oregon/ASU team over a 1-loss MSU team.

Could really see anyone in the top 8 still losing a game, or even 2.

I have a problem when "impressive" is part of the criteria as well.
It's like two parents bragging about their children.
A win is a win is a win ... except in college football.

You can't say that the NFC South champ shouldn't be in the playoffs.

Teams shouldn't be selected. They should win their way in.



BINGO!!!
WIN OR GO HOME.

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Post #: 1884
RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/12/2014 4:21:14 PM   
thebigo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Art

quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

Hard and fast rules don't work with a limited field, nor do won-lost records. Unfortunately for Art, it takes a thoughtful selection process with frank analysis. I know out here, there were a couple of years where the conference (PAC 10) was weak but USC was clearly one of the best few teams in the country. The same thing could be happening in the Big 10 this year if Ohio State turns out to be a really good team who had one bad game against a decent team. At the same time, it's ludicrous that TCU is ahead of a team with the same record that it lost to and ahead of a team with the same record (Alabama) that has played a much tougher schedule. I couldn't give a shit if they score a lot of points---they would be undefeated if they weren't one of the few teams that has given up over 60. In fact, that might be a rule I could get with: Give up over 60----60---points and you cannot advance. But the fact is that like almost everything in college football, a lot of this will be a financial calculation: viewers like offense, some teams bring a lot more spending fans with them, let's have celebrity fans on the panel (Condaleeza Rice?), etc.

But for God's sake, don't let a kid trade his Auto Zone Bowl watch for a tattoo.



Exactly. Agreed on all. Especially the 60 point argument. No way TCU should be above Baylor and Alabama IMO.

And agreed on Florida State. THIS team can't be judged on last year's performance. This team has not won any games impressively really all year.

In the end, there's so much left to decide. If Alabama wins out, they're not only in the top 4 but likely #1. Likewise, if Miss. St. wins out with the exception of a loss to Alabama, they're still likely in the final 4 with their schedule. They will have 1 loss at that point against the toughest schedule in the country (road against Bama/LSU/Ole Miss yet they will not play in their conference title game if that happens. How could the committee leave them out? There'd be no good argument of a 1-loss TCU/OSU/Oregon/ASU team over a 1-loss MSU team.

Could really see anyone in the top 8 still losing a game, or even 2.

I have a problem when "impressive" is part of the criteria as well.
It's like two parents bragging about their children.
A win is a win is a win ... except in college football.

You can't say that the NFC South champ shouldn't be in the playoffs.

Teams shouldn't be selected. They should win their way in.



These 2 sentences seem to contradict each other.
Post #: 1885
RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/12/2014 4:24:42 PM   
Rob Viking

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Lowe

The loss to Va Tech was a bad loss, but a couple things

1. It was JT Barrett's 2nd collegiate game, and Miller got hurt late summer, which means Barrett had very little time to prepare.

2. Bud Foster (Va Tech) D coord had a brilliant scheme, which basically involved a lot of blitzing, and leaving Va Tech's talented corners on an island. And it worked to perfection.

Actually our almost lost to Penn St, was in some ways worse than the loss to Va Tech.

That being said, anyone who follows recruiting knows this OSU team is as talented as any team in the country, there are a ton of future Pros on this squad, and on a neutral field, I'm pretty confident we could play with anyone.


Yeah Va Tech came to play and Barrett wasn't ready at all. The Hokie offense also played really well. I think they're a top 4 team but the conference will hurt them no doubt.

Joey Bosa is a monster, you're right there's so much talent on this team, considering some of the guys they lost to the draft last season.
Post #: 1886
RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/12/2014 4:25:06 PM   
thebigo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: djskillz

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

Hard and fast rules don't work with a limited field, nor do won-lost records. Unfortunately for Art, it takes a thoughtful selection process with frank analysis. I know out here, there were a couple of years where the conference (PAC 10) was weak but USC was clearly one of the best few teams in the country. The same thing could be happening in the Big 10 this year if Ohio State turns out to be a really good team who had one bad game against a decent team. At the same time, it's ludicrous that TCU is ahead of a team with the same record that it lost to and ahead of a team with the same record (Alabama) that has played a much tougher schedule. I couldn't give a shit if they score a lot of points---they would be undefeated if they weren't one of the few teams that has given up over 60. In fact, that might be a rule I could get with: Give up over 60----60---points and you cannot advance. But the fact is that like almost everything in college football, a lot of this will be a financial calculation: viewers like offense, some teams bring a lot more spending fans with them, let's have celebrity fans on the panel (Condaleeza Rice?), etc.

But for God's sake, don't let a kid trade his Auto Zone Bowl watch for a tattoo.



Exactly. Agreed on all. Especially the 60 point argument. No way TCU should be above Baylor and Alabama IMO.

And agreed on Florida State. THIS team can't be judged on last year's performance. This team has not won any games impressively really all year.

In the end, there's so much left to decide. If Alabama wins out, they're not only in the top 4 but likely #1. Likewise, if Miss. St. wins out with the exception of a loss to Alabama, they're still likely in the final 4 with their schedule. They will have 1 loss at that point against the toughest schedule in the country (road against Bama/LSU/Ole Miss yet they will not play in their conference title game if that happens. How could the committee leave them out? There'd be no good argument of a 1-loss TCU/OSU/Oregon/ASU team over a 1-loss MSU team.

Could really see anyone in the top 8 still losing a game, or even 2.


Clearly many would (and will) argue that.
Post #: 1887
RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/12/2014 4:39:06 PM   
djskillz


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Really interesting:


Playoff Ranking Vegas Ranking
1 Mississippi St Alabama
2 Oregon Mississippi St
3 Florida State Florida State
4 TCU Oregon
5 Alabama Baylor
6 Arizona State TCU
7 Baylor Ohio State
8 Ohio State Auburn
9 Auburn Ole Miss
10 Ole Miss UCLA

http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/outkick-the-coverage/the-vegas-top-10-111214

I'd probably argue Oregon over FSU but I don't disagree with much else in that order from Vegas. Lots of good stuff in there on percentages to win out, etc. too.

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Post #: 1888
RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/12/2014 7:01:34 PM   
djskillz


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And a good look at potential stumbling blocks remaining for all the players:

http://247sports.com/Bolt/10-games-that-will-determine-the-who-gets-in-the-CFB-Playoff-32859989

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Post #: 1889
RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/12/2014 7:39:01 PM   
Bill Jandro

 

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Question is what happens when Bama schools MsSt ?

Who goes to the SECCG ? I assume Bama will due to head to head.

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Post #: 1890
RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/12/2014 7:44:46 PM   
djskillz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Question is what happens when Bama schools MsSt ?

Who goes to the SECCG ? I assume Bama will due to head to head.


Bama would own the tiebreak (though they still have to beat Auburn as well). I think it will be a hell of a game. MSU is a great team. Also, Bama usually has a hangover after a battle with LSU:

Just how real is the LSU hangover? Alabama hasn't scored a 1st quarter TD in the game directly after LSU since Saban was hired.

< Message edited by djskillz -- 11/12/2014 7:46:09 PM >


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Post #: 1891
RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/12/2014 10:13:19 PM   
Ian Joseph


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Lowe

BTW - if Miss St has a close loss to Bama, I could easily see 2 SEC teams in the Final Four, problem is both teams still have brutal games left, including a potential SEC Championship game.

I'm now wondering with final 4, if conferences will just ditch the championship game, seems kind of stupid and completely irrelevant in today's landscape.

What's worth more money to the conference a championship game, or 2 (or more) final four games????????


Nah.. way too much money in a conference championship game. Plus, its going to vault teams into the playoffs more so than eliminate them.

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RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/13/2014 11:00:26 AM   
John Childress


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quote:

The SEC has some explaining to do.

If it's such a good conference, why the disjointed play this month? Where is the great team? Where is Goliath?

Auburn was just taken down at home by a Texas A&M team that previously lost a game 59-0. Alabama had a fitful night on offense in an overtime victory over LSU. Georgia lost by 18 to Florida two weeks ago. SEC East-leading Missouri was shut out at home and has a loss to Indiana, which is winless in the Big Ten.


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2265562-chaotic-2014-season-could-be-killing-secs-reputation?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial&hpt=hp_t2

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Post #: 1893
RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/13/2014 11:36:20 AM   
djskillz


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All of those are pretty damn easy to explain actually and the writer clearly has an agenda:

1) Texas A&M is still a very good team (top 25 or so) and are not really 59 points worse than Alabama, of course, just like the Broncos aren't 30-40 points worse than the Seahawks. Games happen. Downward spiral for a few games with a young QB. And Auburn has played a brutal schedule. Bad games happen with that.
2) LSU is also a damn good team. Top 15-20, minimum, and one of the toughest places to play in all of college football, especially at night. That's an impressive win for Alabama. LSU would have been favored in that game against all but maybe 5-6 teams in the country.
3) Georgia lost Gurley and hasn't been the same team without him.
4) Missouri is not a very good team. The East is a LOT weaker than the West.

I don't get the logic that if there's not one dominant team that somehow the top 4 aren't good. Oregon or FSU or anyone else certainly wouldn't "dominate" the conference or be a goliath. In fact, in most people's opinions they'd be simply "in the mix" with the rest, or behind them. Again, you have to take an all or nothing approach. Alabama/OleMiss/Miss St/Auburn are very, very close in talent. With LSU not far behind. So either you believe all of those teams are among the best or none of them.

Call me old school but I much prefer watching a 9-6 game with NFL athletes all over the field to a 61-58 game with no defense that resembles a HS game.

< Message edited by djskillz -- 11/13/2014 2:52:20 PM >


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Post #: 1894
RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/14/2014 12:19:34 AM   
JT2

 

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I don't get why people get so worked up about best conference discussions.

We have finally made some progress in formulating an on-field answer to who the best team is, we will never be able to do that with conferences. Why would we?

SEC football is a different breed. It really is. Sometimes the teams underachieve, but it is never for a lack of talent.

I've been to Iron Bowls in three different decades. Still the best non-Bowl, Bowl game in the nation. Hell, for that matter, the Egg Bowl, often meaningless in terms of determining a National Champion, is one of the most insane, passionate, exciting, great football games of the year.

If you haven't been, you go to Tuscaloosa, Birmingham, Starkville, Baton Rouge, Oxford or Athens, and I bet you will have a completely different opinion and understanding of SEC football.
Post #: 1895
RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/14/2014 12:54:13 AM   
Ian Joseph


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Well, I went to school 25 minutes from Jordan Hare.. so forgive me if my SEC close up experience is whatever. They travel like nobody's business, but to me, theyre just like every other conference = good teams mixed with bad ones, but every game has some sort of a rivalry to it and on any given Saturday, the shitty teams beat the better teams.

Its the same (and has been for some time) in the Pac 12, Big 10 and ACC.

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Post #: 1896
RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/14/2014 12:55:31 AM   
Ian Joseph


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In other SEC news, Ole Miss decided to let their nuts hang a lil bit by opening next season against FSU in the Citrus Bowl. Would have been nice if they did it this year. No Jameis next year.

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RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/14/2014 9:11:29 AM   
djskillz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

I don't get why people get so worked up about best conference discussions.

We have finally made some progress in formulating an on-field answer to who the best team is, we will never be able to do that with conferences. Why would we?

SEC football is a different breed. It really is. Sometimes the teams underachieve, but it is never for a lack of talent.

I've been to Iron Bowls in three different decades. Still the best non-Bowl, Bowl game in the nation. Hell, for that matter, the Egg Bowl, often meaningless in terms of determining a National Champion, is one of the most insane, passionate, exciting, great football games of the year.

If you haven't been, you go to Tuscaloosa, Birmingham, Starkville, Baton Rouge, Oxford or Athens, and I bet you will have a completely different opinion and understanding of SEC football.


Good stuff. It's a totally different environment. And you're right; we could all do better just enjoying the games/teams themselves and not worry about conferences so much. Hell, conferences may all go away soon enough anyway once the NCAA goes away.

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Post #: 1898
RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/14/2014 9:13:00 AM   
djskillz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian Joseph

In other SEC news, Ole Miss decided to let their nuts hang a lil bit by opening next season against FSU in the Citrus Bowl. Would have been nice if they did it this year. No Jameis next year.


Both are likely going to lose a ton of NFL talent, but that still should be a great game. If they expand the playoff field, more games like that will happen. Currently, it doesn't make much sense for a good team in a weak conference (FSU/Ohio State/Michigan State) to have a big non-conference game. May as well take your chances of going undefeated and force the committee to leave you out if they will.

_____________________________

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring."
Post #: 1899
RE: College Football (Future Vikings!) - 11/14/2014 10:58:08 AM   
Jeff Jesser


Posts: 19351
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: offline
We will learn a lot about OSU tomorrow at 11 CT.  My boys are much better but we don't have the athletes to compete with OSU yet.  If they are ready and don't overlook us/take us lightly, they should mud stomp us. 

But, as a buddy of mine who is a huge OSU fan said, this is a huge letdown game for OSU.  You don't give your head coach a Gatorade shower in the middle of the season.  No matter who you just beat. 
Post #: 1900
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