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RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans - 1/4/2021 10:53:28 AM

SoMnFan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

Lance Lynn bites the dust in San Diego

Marrone was canned earlier

Gase yesterday

Bengals "like their direction"

Whaaaaaaa?

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Post #: 8826

RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans - 1/4/2021 10:56:41 AM

Mr. Ed

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From: Minne-so-ta
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

Lance Lynn bites the dust in San Diego

Marrone was canned earlier

Gase yesterday

Bengals "like their direction"

Whaaaaaaa?

Apparently not ready to pull the plug after 2 lousy seasons with this guy.

Those 2 ex-Vikings on defense made a real difference

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Post #: 8827

RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans - 1/4/2021 11:45:41 AM

bstinger

Posts: 16416
Joined: 7/20/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoMnFan

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

If the Washington corners are good their defense would be top 4 in league.

Washington’s Dline is outstanding.

They get after it
All #1s, weren't they?
You just have to put heat on in today's game
No pressure on the QB, means you will get ate alive by most opponents offenses.

Its like when they Twins used to put pressure on their pitchers to be perfect, because they wouldn't improve their offense.
Shits all related. Some management gets that. Some don't.

DB's don't need to be elite if DL is.

Elite DL can affect both the passing and running game.

We keep trying to find diamonds in the rough on DL, and we've had some success, but you can't do it consistently enough.

We've underdrafted both lines too much and too ineffectively and pay the price.

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Post #: 8828

RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans - 1/4/2021 1:59:28 PM

Mr. Ed

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Vikes thread indicates Kubiak has retired again.

And apparently the next OC under Zimmer, assuming there will be another

will be his SIXTH.

Dang

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Post #: 8829

RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans - 1/4/2021 6:35:05 PM

McMurfy

Posts: 13790
Joined: 7/31/2007
From: Portland, Oregon
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

Vikes thread indicates Kubiak has retired again.

And apparently the next OC under Zimmer, assuming there will be another

will be his SIXTH.

Dang

In NFL circles, Kubiak’s Playbook was retired 25 years ago.

Like a Jeep Cherokee Chief.

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Post #: 8830

RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans - 1/5/2021 9:18:03 AM

twinsfan

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Joined: 12/21/2009
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NFL pet peeve. I hate how the media does apples-to-apples comparisons of NFL offenses in 2020 to offenses 10, 15, 20, 30 years ago. Maybe I'm listening to KFAN too much, but I hear the same things on SKOR North and read the same things in the Strib. Great year for Kirk Cousins and the Vikings offense! Our best offense since at least 2004! Maybe even as good as 1998!

Comparing current-day NFL numbers to anything back more than 5 years doesn't make much sense. Is Kirk Cousins better than Brett Favre? The game is so easy for offenses now with all the protecting of the quarterback and other rules. Same with the comparison of past wide receivers. Don't get me wrong - Jefferson was very good this year, especially for a rookie receiver. But Randy Moss had the better rookie season when compared to the rest of the league in 1998.

I get this is simplistic stuff. But I'm kind of sick of hearing about how this was an all-time great Vikings offense in 2020.

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Post #: 8831

RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans - 1/5/2021 9:22:57 AM

Mr. Ed

Posts: 88732
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From: Minne-so-ta
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quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

NFL pet peeve. I hate how the media does apples-to-apples comparisons of NFL offenses in 2020 to offenses 10, 15, 20, 30 years ago. Maybe I'm listening to KFAN too much, but I hear the same things on SKOR North and read the same things in the Strib. Great year for Kirk Cousins and the Vikings offense! Our best offense since at least 2004! Maybe even as good as 1998!

Comparing current-day NFL numbers to anything back more than 5 years doesn't make much sense. Is Kirk Cousins better than Brett Favre? The game is so easy for offenses now with all the protecting of the quarterback and other rules. Same with the comparison of past wide receivers. Don't get me wrong - Jefferson was very good this year, especially for a rookie receiver. But Randy Moss had the better rookie season when compared to the rest of the league in 1998.

I get this is simplistic stuff. But I'm kind of sick of hearing about how this was an all-time great Vikings offense in 2020.

Numbers say so

Reality is

They ran the ball well. No doubt

But for too much of the season, they passed for good numbers only because they were so far behind.

And Cousins' season is offset by the horrible first part of the season when he gave the ball away like it was candy at Halloween.

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Post #: 8832

RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans - 1/5/2021 9:22:59 AM

ronhextall

Posts: 6271
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

NFL pet peeve. I hate how the media does apples-to-apples comparisons of NFL offenses in 2020 to offenses 10, 15, 20, 30 years ago. Maybe I'm listening to KFAN too much, but I hear the same things on SKOR North and read the same things in the Strib. Great year for Kirk Cousins and the Vikings offense! Our best offense since at least 2004! Maybe even as good as 1998!

Comparing current-day NFL numbers to anything back more than 5 years doesn't make much sense. Is Kirk Cousins better than Brett Favre? The game is so easy for offenses now with all the protecting of the quarterback and other rules. Same with the comparison of past wide receivers. Don't get me wrong - Jefferson was very good this year, especially for a rookie receiver. But Randy Moss had the better rookie season when compared to the rest of the league in 1998.

I get this is simplistic stuff. But I'm kind of sick of hearing about how this was an all-time great Vikings offense in 2020.

agreed. I heard on analyst say Moss wasn't as willing to go across the middle as Jefferson is. Back in the day, safeties would absolutely blow up receivers across the middle so they didn't do it a second time.

Completely different game.

< Message edited by ronhextall -- 1/5/2021 9:25:49 AM >

Post #: 8833

RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans - 1/5/2021 9:24:20 AM

Mr. Ed

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From: Minne-so-ta
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JMO

You cannot have an all-time great offense when you start 1-5, finish 7-9.

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Post #: 8834

RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans - 1/5/2021 10:11:15 AM

twinsfan

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If a starting receiver doesn't have 100 yards in a game now, it's a disappointing day. Compare that to the days when Jerry Rice would sometimes be the only receiver in the NFL to have a 100 yard game.

Totally agree with ronhextall; it's not the same game.

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Post #: 8835

RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans - 1/5/2021 10:41:27 AM

bstinger

Posts: 16416
Joined: 7/20/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

If a starting receiver doesn't have 100 yards in a game now, it's a disappointing day. Compare that to the days when Jerry Rice would sometimes be the only receiver in the NFL to have a 100 yard game.

Totally agree with ronhextall; it's not the same game.

Agree, it's a pass friendly league now, which makes it all the more maddening to have a dinosaur of a coach hell bent on run run run.

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Post #: 8836

RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans - 1/5/2021 11:15:50 AM

Trekgeekscott

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

If a starting receiver doesn't have 100 yards in a game now, it's a disappointing day. Compare that to the days when Jerry Rice would sometimes be the only receiver in the NFL to have a 100 yard game.

Totally agree with ronhextall; it's not the same game.

Agree, it's a pass friendly league now, which makes it all the more maddening to have a dinosaur of a coach hell bent on run run run.

The play calling was pretty balanced between run and throw.

and IMHO, it should be that way.

Just can't be dumb about it. You know like running the same play five times in a row from the 1 trying to punch it in despite gettting stuffed time and time again. or the designed rollout right into the unblocked defender throw to the checkdown play.

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RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans - 1/5/2021 11:18:36 AM

Phil Riewer

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Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

If a starting receiver doesn't have 100 yards in a game now, it's a disappointing day. Compare that to the days when Jerry Rice would sometimes be the only receiver in the NFL to have a 100 yard game.

Totally agree with ronhextall; it's not the same game.

Agree, it's a pass friendly league now, which makes it all the more maddening to have a dinosaur of a coach hell bent on run run run.

Which makes what JJ did even more amazing.....Denny Green loved to pass.

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Post #: 8838

RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans - 1/5/2021 11:28:36 AM

Mr. Ed

Posts: 88732
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Minne-so-ta
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

If a starting receiver doesn't have 100 yards in a game now, it's a disappointing day. Compare that to the days when Jerry Rice would sometimes be the only receiver in the NFL to have a 100 yard game.

Totally agree with ronhextall; it's not the same game.

Agree, it's a pass friendly league now, which makes it all the more maddening to have a dinosaur of a coach hell bent on run run run.

Which makes what JJ did even more amazing.....Denny Green loved to pass.

Just checking

1998 Vikings
1008 plays
533 passing attempts

2020 Vikings
1023 plays
516 passing attempts

Not much difference

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Post #: 8839

RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans - 1/5/2021 11:38:32 AM

David Levine

Posts: 76784
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr. Ed

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

quote:

ORIGINAL: twinsfan

If a starting receiver doesn't have 100 yards in a game now, it's a disappointing day. Compare that to the days when Jerry Rice would sometimes be the only receiver in the NFL to have a 100 yard game.

Totally agree with ronhextall; it's not the same game.

Agree, it's a pass friendly league now, which makes it all the more maddening to have a dinosaur of a coach hell bent on run run run.

Which makes what JJ did even more amazing.....Denny Green loved to pass.

Just checking

1998 Vikings
1008 plays
533 passing attempts

2020 Vikings
1023 plays
516 passing attempts

Not much difference

1998 Vikings
450 Rushing attempts.

2020 Vikings
468 Rushing attempts.

Post #: 8840

RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans - 1/5/2021 11:43:51 AM

bstinger

Posts: 16416
Joined: 7/20/2007
Status: online

2 key differences between 1998 Vikings and 2020 Vikings.

The 1998 team threw a lot to get a lead and then ran it to run time out.

The 2020 team ran a lot and fell behind, then threw to catch up.

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--twinsfan

Post #: 8841

RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans - 1/5/2021 11:48:09 AM

bstinger

Posts: 16416
Joined: 7/20/2007
Status: online

Marwan Maalouf gone. Thank god. Who ever hired him should be shown the door as well, by Mike.

Kubiak taking some time to decide his future.

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Post #: 8842

RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans - 1/5/2021 11:51:57 AM 1 votes

twinsfan

Posts: 62398
Joined: 12/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

2 key differences between 1998 Vikings and 2020 Vikings.

The 1998 team threw a lot to get a lead and then ran it to run time out.

The 2020 team ran a lot and fell behind, then threw to catch up.

Good point.

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RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans - 1/5/2021 12:07:55 PM

Bill Jandro

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I think Kubiak did an ok job. Much better than some of the OC's in the past.

What bothered me was the serious lack of imagination. No "wow" plays that were well designed or any trick/gadget plays that were needed on critical 3rd or 4th downs.

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RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans - 1/5/2021 12:17:55 PM

Mark Anderson

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Joined: 9/1/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

2 key differences between 1998 Vikings and 2020 Vikings.

The 1998 team threw a lot to get a lead and then ran it to run time out.

The 2020 team ran a lot and fell behind, then threw to catch up.

Is that really true?

I remember falling behind in games because we threw INTs or Cousins fumbled because a Guard got plowed over. Or just because the defense was awful.

The Dinosaur Offense stuff is kind of overblown. Plenty of play action passes on 1st and 2nd down this year.

< Message edited by Mark Anderson -- 1/5/2021 12:25:01 PM >

Post #: 8845

RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans - 1/5/2021 12:21:50 PM

Jeff Jesser

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From: Southern Cal
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According to ESPN's stats, we had the 4th BEST offense in the league. With that Oline.

Imagine if we upgraded that to average.

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RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans - 1/5/2021 12:24:02 PM

Jeff Jesser

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From: Southern Cal
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Same site puts us at 27 in D, 17th in ST's and a negative TO ratio.

Offense is not our problem.

Post #: 8847

RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans - 1/5/2021 12:24:07 PM

Mark Anderson

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

According to ESPN's stats, we had the 4th BEST offense in the league. With that Oline. Imagine if we upgraded that to average.

Maybe we are a Raptor offense.

Post #: 8848

RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans - 1/5/2021 12:26:31 PM

TJSweens

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Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

2 key differences between 1998 Vikings and 2020 Vikings.

The 1998 team threw a lot to get a lead and then ran it to run time out.

The 2020 team ran a lot and fell behind, then threw to catch up.

Is that really true?

I remember falling behind in games because we threw INTs or Cousins fumbled because a Guard got plowed over.

The Dinosaur Offense stuff is kind of overblown. Plenty of play action passes on 1st and 2nd down this year.

I don't think so. All of the passing yards did not come in garbage time. The Vikings keep running the ball late into the game whether they are behind or ahead.

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RE: Vikes talk for Twins Fans - 1/5/2021 12:33:39 PM

Mark Anderson

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Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

2 key differences between 1998 Vikings and 2020 Vikings.

The 1998 team threw a lot to get a lead and then ran it to run time out.

The 2020 team ran a lot and fell behind, then threw to catch up.

Is that really true?

I remember falling behind in games because we threw INTs or Cousins fumbled because a Guard got plowed over.

The Dinosaur Offense stuff is kind of overblown. Plenty of play action passes on 1st and 2nd down this year.

I don't think so. All of the passing yards did not come in garbage time. The Vikings keep running the ball late into the game whether they are behind or ahead.

I'll agree that there were times when we would run just for the sake of running.

We would play action pass two times in a row and have 15-20 yard gains and then it was like we were obligated to run Cook.

No. Keep doing what is working.

Post #: 8850