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RE: Other NFL News - 9/8/2016 5:05:02 PM

David Levine

Posts: 76782
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I remember Bud Grant insisting that each Viking player stand at attention and be respectful to the flag. I long for the old days. Is it making the country better by us having a conversation about his issue? Not when he makes us mad through his "statement" of disrespect to the flag and to police officers. It's not helping. Sorry.

Change only occurs when people get upset. Its part of the process.

Post #: 351

RE: Other NFL News - 9/8/2016 5:09:18 PM

kgdabom

Posts: 33575
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I remember Bud Grant insisting that each Viking player stand at attention and be respectful to the flag. I long for the old days. Is it making the country better by us having a conversation about his issue? Not when he makes us mad through his "statement" of disrespect to the flag and to police officers. It's not helping. Sorry.

Change only occurs when people get upset. Its part of the process.

So should we always be upset no matter how good we got things comparatively?

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 352

RE: Other NFL News - 9/8/2016 5:19:04 PM

bohumm

Posts: 5705
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: Altadena, CA
Status: offline

Well, at least we're not at the point where someone is pilloried because she didn't have the right expression on her face during the playing of the national anthem. Oh, wait.........

Post #: 353

RE: Other NFL News - 9/8/2016 5:28:47 PM

JTC2017

Posts: 1966
Joined: 8/12/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I remember Bud Grant insisting that each Viking player stand at attention and be respectful to the flag. I long for the old days. Is it making the country better by us having a conversation about his issue? Not when he makes us mad through his "statement" of disrespect to the flag and to police officers. It's not helping. Sorry.

Change only occurs when people get upset. Its part of the process.

So should we always be upset no matter how good we got things comparatively?

How good we have things?

20 years ago the average Black family had 1/10th the wealth of the avg White family

Today it is 1/22nd!

THis is what you don't get

Things are not better

And let's not pretend for one second racial relations were good during the Bud Grant era

Just because you ignore something doesn't mean it is not there

Post #: 354

RE: Other NFL News - 9/8/2016 5:32:33 PM

JTC2017

Posts: 1966
Joined: 8/12/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: John Childress

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

You can love your country and still point out problems/suggest change.

I mean the founding fathers did exactly that. MLK, Lincoln, and countless others have done exactly that.

No problem with that at all. Point out all the problems you want, but what Kaepernick is doing is disrespecting our country.

The PC thing to do is to disagree with him, but respect his opinion.

Unless your opinion is that he is being disrespectful, then all bets are off.

I believe that Kaep is disrespecting out country. I have no respect for his opinion. Back in the days that we were practicing separate, but supposedly equal he would have had a point. We as a country have really done everything within reason to combat racism. We may have even gone too far with hate crime laws. What more is there for us to do as a country?

Kap is many things but how is protesting for a BETTER AMERICA disrespecting America?

That makes no sense

We have not even begun to do everything to combat racism when an outright racist like Trump is a nominee of a major party!

Seriously

We have a guy who based his campaign on racism, won, and you claim we are doing all we can?

pure nonsense

Kaepernick is not protesting for a better America. He is disrespecting America. Regarding Trump first I would need somebody to prove to me that Trump is a racist. A lot of people claim he is, but that doesn't mean anything. Next Trump hasn't won anything and I doubt if he will. We are so anti racist as a country that I think we are willing to vote for Hillary Clinton because we are afraid Trump is a racist.
Trump has never held public office. If he has taken racist action he deserves to be held accountable by the law for his actions. He in no way represents America unless he is elected by the American public.

Bullshit

You can't make up your own reason why he is protesting when he clearly stated his reasons!

Trump WAS nominated by the American public in the primary process and there is no question he is a racist

Worse, look at the conditions in Black neighborhoods and schools

It doesn't take much research to see how unequal things are today

Post #: 355

RE: Other NFL News - 9/8/2016 6:34:07 PM

Bruce Johnson

Posts: 16352
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I remember Bud Grant insisting that each Viking player stand at attention and be respectful to the flag. I long for the old days. Is it making the country better by us having a conversation about his issue? Not when he makes us mad through his "statement" of disrespect to the flag and to police officers. It's not helping. Sorry.

Change only occurs when people get upset. Its part of the process.

That's what Karl Marx said- that progress only comes through conflict. By the way, communism is the anti-christ.

What do I believe? That progress comes from people with mutual respect for each other who unite for the higher purpose. Right now, it seems as though everyone wants someone to sacrifice for them and that is the path to destruction. No wonder our nation is rapidly declining.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 356

RE: Other NFL News - 9/8/2016 6:46:17 PM

David Levine

Posts: 76782
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I remember Bud Grant insisting that each Viking player stand at attention and be respectful to the flag. I long for the old days. Is it making the country better by us having a conversation about his issue? Not when he makes us mad through his "statement" of disrespect to the flag and to police officers. It's not helping. Sorry.

Change only occurs when people get upset. Its part of the process.

That's what Karl Marx said- that progress only comes through conflict. By the way, communism is the anti-christ.

What do I believe? That progress comes from people with mutual respect for each other who unite for the higher purpose. Right now, it seems as though everyone wants someone to sacrifice for them and that is the path to destruction. No wonder our nation is rapidly declining.

I'm sorry Bruce, but that's bullshit.

Look at the entire history of our country. Major change pretty much always follows conflict and resolution.

We wouldn't even have this country if it wasn't for conflict...

Post #: 357

RE: Other NFL News - 9/8/2016 6:50:26 PM

Brad H

Posts: 22649
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I remember Bud Grant insisting that each Viking player stand at attention and be respectful to the flag. I long for the old days. Is it making the country better by us having a conversation about his issue? Not when he makes us mad through his "statement" of disrespect to the flag and to police officers. It's not helping. Sorry.

Change only occurs when people get upset. Its part of the process.

That's what Karl Marx said- that progress only comes through conflict. By the way, communism is the anti-christ.

What do I believe? That progress comes from people with mutual respect for each other who unite for the higher purpose. Right now, it seems as though everyone wants someone to sacrifice for them and that is the path to destruction. No wonder our nation is rapidly declining.

Rapidly declining? We have made great strides in the past eight years. Decline was what happened in the previous eight. As I said the day it happened, Kaepernick did a good thing in exorcising his rights. He attempted to bring consciousness to a mostly unconscious country.

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!

Post #: 358

RE: Other NFL News - 9/8/2016 7:39:19 PM

Bruce Johnson

Posts: 16352
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

That is the way of the Left. When someone shares his heartfelt beliefs, they resort to saying "that is bullshit". I should have learned from before, but I keep thinking that one of these days you guys might open up your minds just a little bit. Anyway, I'll just talk about football again. Maybe I will learn my lesson this time.

Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn’t pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children’s children what it was once like in the United States where men were free. -- Ronald Reagan

< Message edited by Bruce Johnson -- 9/8/2016 7:41:25 PM >

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 359

RE: Other NFL News - 9/8/2016 8:07:20 PM

David Levine

Posts: 76782
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

So conflict is communism, but Reagan says you need to fight...

Ok then....

Post #: 360

RE: Other NFL News - 9/8/2016 9:43:21 PM

DavidAOlson

Posts: 17363
Joined: 8/2/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

That is the way of the Left. When someone shares his heartfelt beliefs, they resort to saying "that is bullshit". ...

Well, Bruce, when you deliberately insult someone as a Marxist, you probably shouldn't expect a cheerful response. Sounds like you're channeling Glenn Beck, who's got an infatuation with Marxist labeling. But wherever you got it, you're outside that bubble.

Not sure how it's Marxist to comment that "You can't make an omelet without breaking some eggs."

Or how it's Marxist to go through the second stage of the team building cycle: Forming, Storming, Norming, Performing. Business departments will probably be distraught to learn they've been filling the heads of young capitalists with Marxist ideals.

The notion that conflict precedes change is widely shared. It's valuable. Sweeping it away, dismissing it as a Marxist idea, is begging for an outraged response, which you got. And then to follow it up with a gratuitous insult, as if you were completely innocent, is unbelievably naive.

_____________________________

I give myself very good advice, but I very seldom follow it. --- Alice

Post #: 361

RE: Other NFL News - 9/8/2016 9:44:17 PM

David F.

Posts: 10833
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

That is the way of the Left. When someone shares his heartfelt beliefs, they resort to saying "that is bullshit". I should have learned from before, but I keep thinking that one of these days you guys might open up your minds just a little bit. Anyway, I'll just talk about football again. Maybe I will learn my lesson this time.

Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn’t pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children’s children what it was once like in the United States where men were free. -- Ronald Reagan

I tried to look up the exact number and failed but I think roughly 100 countries have freedom.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 362

RE: Other NFL News - 9/8/2016 9:54:40 PM

Daniel Lee Young

Posts: 12788
Joined: 9/21/2013
Status: online

im not a moderator.. but i play one in my head...

we have threads for the "political side" of this Keapernick drama queenism..

I understand his reasoning behind his "statement" and i defend his right to do it any way he pleases.. and A bronco did the exact same thing tonight during the national anthem.. big deal...

It is not disrespect.. it is exercising his RIGHTS as a citizen to FREE SPEECH in PUBLIC.

get over it.

_____________________________

"Thou shall not bear false witness”
I am WRATH, incarnate.
@RlyeeNicole’sDad

Post #: 363

RE: Other NFL News - 9/8/2016 10:05:57 PM

DavidAOlson

Posts: 17363
Joined: 8/2/2007
Status: online

Moving back to the actual NFL protest: momentum continues to build.

Brandon Marshall took a knee.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/broncos-brandon-marshall-kneels-during-national-anthem-in-nfl-opener/

Seattle appears to be planning something as a team.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/seattle-seahawks-national-anthem-protest_us_57d1b856e4b00642712c6b12

Not much doubt left: Kap's kneel down is going viral.

_____________________________

I give myself very good advice, but I very seldom follow it. --- Alice

Post #: 364

RE: Other NFL News - 9/8/2016 11:28:21 PM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12014
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DavidAOlson

Moving back to the actual NFL protest: momentum continues to build.

Brandon Marshall took a knee.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/broncos-brandon-marshall-kneels-during-national-anthem-in-nfl-opener/

Seattle appears to be planning something as a team.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/seattle-seahawks-national-anthem-protest_us_57d1b856e4b00642712c6b12

Not much doubt left: Kap's kneel down is going viral.

Score tonight: Saluting Flag: 60,000+ Non-saluting that we know of: 1

Post #: 365

RE: Other NFL News - 9/8/2016 11:31:05 PM

JT2

Posts: 13742
Joined: 2/15/2011
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: DavidAOlson

Moving back to the actual NFL protest: momentum continues to build.

Brandon Marshall took a knee.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/broncos-brandon-marshall-kneels-during-national-anthem-in-nfl-opener/

Seattle appears to be planning something as a team.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/seattle-seahawks-national-anthem-protest_us_57d1b856e4b00642712c6b12

Not much doubt left: Kap's kneel down is going viral.

Score tonight: Saluting Flag: 60,000+ Non-saluting that we know of: 1

At one time, slavery could claim even higher numbers.

Post #: 366

RE: Other NFL News - 9/9/2016 12:08:13 AM

thebigo

Posts: 28246
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DavidAOlson

Moving back to the actual NFL protest: momentum continues to build.

Brandon Marshall took a knee.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/broncos-brandon-marshall-kneels-during-national-anthem-in-nfl-opener/

Seattle appears to be planning something as a team.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/seattle-seahawks-national-anthem-protest_us_57d1b856e4b00642712c6b12

Not much doubt left: Kap's kneel down is going viral.

If the Vikes plan something, I'll be booing them.

Post #: 367

RE: Other NFL News - 9/9/2016 12:09:12 AM

kgdabom

Posts: 33575
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: JTC2017

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I remember Bud Grant insisting that each Viking player stand at attention and be respectful to the flag. I long for the old days. Is it making the country better by us having a conversation about his issue? Not when he makes us mad through his "statement" of disrespect to the flag and to police officers. It's not helping. Sorry.

Change only occurs when people get upset. Its part of the process.

So should we always be upset no matter how good we got things comparatively?

How good we have things?

20 years ago the average Black family had 1/10th the wealth of the avg White family

Today it is 1/22nd!

THis is what you don't get

Things are not better

And let's not pretend for one second racial relations were good during the Bud Grant era

Just because you ignore something doesn't mean it is not there

I'm not sure about your statistics JC. All I know is our country is absolutely against racism. Not to say racism doesn't exist, but our country is against it.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 368

RE: Other NFL News - 9/9/2016 12:17:49 AM

kgdabom

Posts: 33575
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: JTC2017

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: John Childress

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

You can love your country and still point out problems/suggest change.

I mean the founding fathers did exactly that. MLK, Lincoln, and countless others have done exactly that.

No problem with that at all. Point out all the problems you want, but what Kaepernick is doing is disrespecting our country.

The PC thing to do is to disagree with him, but respect his opinion.

Unless your opinion is that he is being disrespectful, then all bets are off.

I believe that Kaep is disrespecting out country. I have no respect for his opinion. Back in the days that we were practicing separate, but supposedly equal he would have had a point. We as a country have really done everything within reason to combat racism. We may have even gone too far with hate crime laws. What more is there for us to do as a country?

Kap is many things but how is protesting for a BETTER AMERICA disrespecting America?

That makes no sense

We have not even begun to do everything to combat racism when an outright racist like Trump is a nominee of a major party!

Seriously

We have a guy who based his campaign on racism, won, and you claim we are doing all we can?

pure nonsense

Kaepernick is not protesting for a better America. He is disrespecting America. Regarding Trump first I would need somebody to prove to me that Trump is a racist. A lot of people claim he is, but that doesn't mean anything. Next Trump hasn't won anything and I doubt if he will. We are so anti racist as a country that I think we are willing to vote for Hillary Clinton because we are afraid Trump is a racist.
Trump has never held public office. If he has taken racist action he deserves to be held accountable by the law for his actions. He in no way represents America unless he is elected by the American public.

Bullshit

You can't make up your own reason why he is protesting when he clearly stated his reasons!

Trump WAS nominated by the American public in the primary process and there is no question he is a racist

Worse, look at the conditions in Black neighborhoods and schools

It doesn't take much research to see how unequal things are today

My understanding of Kaep's protest is that we are a racist oppressive nation to people of color. Is that wrong? I don't believe there is any truth to that and disrespecting our national anthem is disrespecting our country.

What is the proof that Trump is a racist? If there was actual proof I don't buy that he would be getting support. People like to label people and make claims. As for bad conditions in Black neighborhoods and schools what is the solution?

< Message edited by kgdabom -- 9/9/2016 12:29:38 AM >

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 369

RE: Other NFL News - 9/9/2016 12:21:22 AM

thebigo

Posts: 28246
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

d

< Message edited by thebigo -- 9/9/2016 12:24:12 AM >

Post #: 370

RE: Other NFL News - 9/9/2016 12:24:48 AM

kgdabom

Posts: 33575
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: JTC2017

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I remember Bud Grant insisting that each Viking player stand at attention and be respectful to the flag. I long for the old days. Is it making the country better by us having a conversation about his issue? Not when he makes us mad through his "statement" of disrespect to the flag and to police officers. It's not helping. Sorry.

Change only occurs when people get upset. Its part of the process.

So should we always be upset no matter how good we got things comparatively?

How good we have things?

20 years ago the average Black family had 1/10th the wealth of the avg White family

Today it is 1/22nd!

THis is what you don't get

Things are not better

And let's not pretend for one second racial relations were good during the Bud Grant era

Just because you ignore something doesn't mean it is not there

I'm not sure about your statistics JC. All I know is our country is absolutely against racism. Not to say racism doesn't exist, but our country is against it.

The US Census Bureau also provides a breakdown by self-identified ethnic groups as follows (as of March 2014):

Mean Household Income by Ethnicity[26]
Ethnic Category Mean Household Income
Asian alone $90,752
White alone $79,340
Hispanic or Latino $54,644
Black $49,629

U.S. Census Bureau

So it's actually 8:5

Closer than most of JCs stat though.

My household is White/Asian with just a little Native American. Income of $40,000. I'm not complaining.

< Message edited by kgdabom -- 9/9/2016 12:27:56 AM >

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 371

RE: Other NFL News - 9/9/2016 7:42:08 AM

DavidAOlson

Posts: 17363
Joined: 8/2/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom
...
My understanding of Kaep's protest is that we are a racist oppressive nation to people of color. Is that wrong?

Yes.

quote:

What is the proof that Trump is a racist? If there was actual proof I don't buy that he would be getting support. ...

There's a huge trail, going back at least as far as refusal to rent to black people in the 70's. It's not even remotely challenging to find example after example. Public testimony about American Indians, etc.

As far as political support, there's been huge amounts of political science research showing that they factor that explains support for Trump is "white resentment" politics. And I can't believe you missed his broad characterization of Mexican immigrants as "rapists and murderers," which led off his campaign. It's been a steady stream ever since.

< Message edited by DavidAOlson -- 9/9/2016 4:21:52 PM >

_____________________________

I give myself very good advice, but I very seldom follow it. --- Alice

Post #: 372

RE: Other NFL News - 9/9/2016 7:51:52 AM

joejitsu

Posts: 14978
Joined: 3/21/2010
From: 60411
Status: offline

In other NFL news...There's going to be games played on Sunday. A whole lot of games. I'm going to finish my coffee now.

Post #: 373

RE: Other NFL News - 9/9/2016 8:28:42 AM

kgdabom

Posts: 33575
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: DavidAOlson

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom
...
My understanding of Kaep's protest is that we are a racist oppressive nation to people of color. Is that wrong?

Yes.

quote:

What is the proof that Trump is a racist? If there was actual proof I don't buy that he would be getting support. ...

There's a huge trail, going back at least as far as refusal to rent to black people in the 70's. It's not even remotely challenging to find example after example. Public testimony about American Indians, etc.

As far as political support, there's been huge amounts of political science research showing that they factor that explains support for Trump is "white resentment" politics. And I can't believe you missed his broad characterization of Mexican immigrants as "racists and murderers," which led off his campaign. It's been a steady stream ever since.

OK what is Kaepernick's stance. I read his words stating that America is an oppressive nation to people of color, but that is NOT his stance?? Maybe his stance was misrepresented by the media, but I do know that not standing for our anthem is disrespecting our nation.

What is the truth. I read JC's claim that the average white family has 22 times the wealth of the average Black family then I read Bigo qiving census figures that it's 8-5. I don't trust that much of anyone really wants the truth. I know how politics work and it's dirty. That is why when people make racist claims I don't believe them. I'm done commenting on Kaep and Trump or Clinton. Back to football only.

< Message edited by kgdabom -- 9/9/2016 8:36:58 AM >

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 374

RE: Other NFL News - 9/9/2016 8:43:28 AM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12014
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: DavidAOlson

Moving back to the actual NFL protest: momentum continues to build.

Brandon Marshall took a knee.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/broncos-brandon-marshall-kneels-during-national-anthem-in-nfl-opener/

Seattle appears to be planning something as a team.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/seattle-seahawks-national-anthem-protest_us_57d1b856e4b00642712c6b12

Not much doubt left: Kap's kneel down is going viral.

Score tonight: Saluting Flag: 60,000+ Non-saluting that we know of: 1

At one time, slavery could claim even higher numbers.

yes. at one time.

Now. You can become President. You can be a top executive at a corporation. You can be a Fortune 500 member. You can play a game and set up your next 4 generations to have the best education and quality of life possible.

< Message edited by Mark Anderson -- 9/9/2016 8:46:42 AM >

Post #: 375