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RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2019 6:01:18 PM

Karl Juhnke

Posts: 12506
Joined: 7/28/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

It's good if Zimmer knows his limitations. He has always brought in former head coaches to help him with the offense, starting with Norv. I like that about him. He delegates authority. That's what successful managers do who are not bound by their egos. It's the same with special teams. I don't believe he was too proactive with the special teams. Releasing our rookie kicker might have been Zimmer, though.

Yes it’s good that he brings in seasoned people. But he does seem to have a short fuse with his people when things go a bit awry.

Post #: 2526

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2019 6:08:14 PM

GopherFan34

Posts: 537
Joined: 4/25/2009
Status: offline

Everyone keeps bringing up the fact that the top 4 scoring teams are still in the hunt. Isn't that what the NFL wants. The rules clearly favor the offense. You basically can't touch the QB anymore. That's why I'm not sure if old school Zimmer will ever succeed in today's NFL. The guy who keeps adjusting though is Belichick.

Post #: 2527

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2019 6:12:19 PM

Ricky J

Posts: 18185
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: GopherFan34

Everyone keeps bringing up the fact that the top 4 scoring teams are still in the hunt. Isn't that what the NFL wants. The rules clearly favor the offense. You basically can't touch the QB anymore. That's why I'm not sure if old school Zimmer will ever succeed in today's NFL. The guy who keeps adjusting though is Belichick.

Depends on the crew. I thought they did a good job of relaxing some of those calls throughout the season then the Vikings got hosed in the worst way against Chicago and they let a lot worse stuff go last weekend.

More consistency with the roughing the QB would be nice - Im not blaming Zimmer for the horseshit call that extended Chicago's drive that resulted in a TD

< Message edited by Ricky J -- 1/16/2019 6:14:28 PM >

Post #: 2528

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2019 6:13:31 PM

Pager

Posts: 10500
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GopherFan34

Everyone keeps bringing up the fact that the top 4 scoring teams are still in the hunt. Isn't that what the NFL wants. The rules clearly favor the offense. You basically can't touch the QB anymore. That's why I'm not sure if old school Zimmer will ever succeed in today's NFL. The guy who keeps adjusting though is Belichick.

I agree. The interesting thing, and amazing, is how the Patriots reinvent themselves for each game and for each season. Different personnel, different game plans, etc. Bilichick does not care how he wins, 3-0 or 99-98, only that he wins. Contrast to Zimmer who has a very narrow definition of winning football.

I don't know how any could argue that Bilichik is not the GOAT.

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.

Post #: 2529

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2019 6:26:41 PM

Ricky J

Posts: 18185
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: online

VikingUpdate.com @VikingUpdate

How much do the #Vikings really need to invest in the offensive line? Seven of the 12 playoff teams (but 3 of the final 4) have three first- or second-round picks starting on their offensive line. A look at the rankings and starting OLs in the playoffs.

Post #: 2530

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2019 6:57:02 PM

GopherFan34

Posts: 537
Joined: 4/25/2009
Status: offline

The offensive line neglect will come come back to haunt Spielman. The Cowboy's sucked for years until they fixed their OL.

Post #: 2531

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2019 7:10:11 PM

Todd M

Posts: 39776
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

Got a whole slew of people that are going to be dedicated to bringing us an OL that is at least respectable. And things will be better because of it.

The other missing piece is the right team mentality...it was off kilter last year and must be fixed.

Post #: 2532

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2019 7:16:16 PM

Viking Rich

Posts: 3730
Joined: 2/28/2017
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: GopherFan34

Everyone keeps bringing up the fact that the top 4 scoring teams are still in the hunt. Isn't that what the NFL wants. The rules clearly favor the offense. You basically can't touch the QB anymore. That's why I'm not sure if old school Zimmer will ever succeed in today's NFL. The guy who keeps adjusting though is Belichick.

I agree. The interesting thing, and amazing, is how the Patriots reinvent themselves for each game and for each season. Different personnel, different game plans, etc. Bilichick does not care how he wins, 3-0 or 99-98, only that he wins. Contrast to Zimmer who has a very narrow definition of winning football.

I don't know how any could argue that Bilichik is not the GOAT.

You're right about Zimmer. When he was asked about the Rams/Chiefs game final, he said:

“I’m not a 54-51 kind of guy,” Zimmer said Wednesday, laughing. “That’s just not my cup of tea. I think it would run me out of football.”

Packers coach Mike McCarthy? “I love it,” McCarthy said.

Zimmer is conservative. I hope this hire works out with the offense, with no Zimmer input.

Even on defense, I think Zimmer is a bit conservative. When Baltimore and Cleveland battled in that last regular season game with Baltimore needing to win, Cleveland got down to the Baltimore 39 yard line with a little over a minute left, had 1st down, and the Ravens only led by two.

Baltimore blitzed Mayfield 4 straight times, and intercepted him on the 4th down pass.

I don't think Zimmer would have done that. He would have played back, and hoped the front four would get to the QB. I would be interested to see Edwards make the play calls, and let Zimmer just manage the game as the HC.

Maybe his head would be clearer and he wouldn't be making foolish challenges.

_____________________________

Sam Darnold's Gonna Shock Us All

Post #: 2533

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2019 7:35:53 PM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 17833
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

Flip came to Minnesota and turned a NFCCG offense into a sputtering mess. Given a decent QB, RB, WRs and albeit a shitty Oline [nice of you to throw that in there as you speed on by] he did nothing to improve that unit and ignored the HC and did his own thing despite its weekly failures and his inability to adapt.

If this team doesn't turn it around this next year the bold is what most people will remember about Zimmer, but under a slightly different context, when he doesn't work here any more.

Tough guy image gone bad.

Not one thing he said in public about needing to run the ball had a positive effect. That needs to be considered when we think about his ability to lead.

I wasn't impressed with the Flip offense. But I equally unimpressed with Zim throwing him under the bus.

Sorry about the negativity but bringing in the Denver rejects has both disaster and desperation written all over it.

No one was clamouring for the oc position after Zim made Flip fall on the sword. The Kubiak gang of misfits however would take any gig.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 2534

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2019 7:40:54 PM

thebigo

Posts: 28246
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

Flip came to Minnesota and turned a NFCCG offense into a sputtering mess. Given a decent QB, RB, WRs and albeit a shitty Oline [nice of you to throw that in there as you speed on by] he did nothing to improve that unit and ignored the HC and did his own thing despite its weekly failures and his inability to adapt.

If this team doesn't turn it around this next year the bold is what most people will remember about Zimmer, but under a slightly different context, when he doesn't work here any more.

Tough guy image gone bad.

Not one thing he said in public about needing to run the ball had a positive effect. That needs to be considered when we think about his ability to lead.

I wasn't impressed with the Flip offense. But I equally unimpressed with Zim throwing him under the bus.

Sorry about the negativity but bringing in the Denver rejects has both disaster and desperation written all over it.

No one was clamouring for the oc position after Zim made Flip fall on the sword. The Kubiak gang of misfits however would take any gig.

"The Kubiak gang of misfits"

Remember when Santa picked up the misfit toys? It had a happy ending.

Post #: 2535

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2019 8:07:59 PM

Pager

Posts: 10500
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

Flip came to Minnesota and turned a NFCCG offense into a sputtering mess. Given a decent QB, RB, WRs and albeit a shitty Oline [nice of you to throw that in there as you speed on by] he did nothing to improve that unit and ignored the HC and did his own thing despite its weekly failures and his inability to adapt.

If this team doesn't turn it around this next year the bold is what most people will remember about Zimmer, but under a slightly different context, when he doesn't work here any more.

Tough guy image gone bad.

Not one thing he said in public about needing to run the ball had a positive effect. That needs to be considered when we think about his ability to lead.

I wasn't impressed with the Flip offense. But I equally unimpressed with Zim throwing him under the bus.

Sorry about the negativity but bringing in the Denver rejects has both disaster and desperation written all over it.

No one was clamouring for the oc position after Zim made Flip fall on the sword. The Kubiak gang of misfits however would take any gig.

I get the sentiment about Flip. I'm not trying to convince anyone otherwise.

I was impressed with Flips Offense the first idk 8 games or so. Maybe he had playcalling tendencies. Maybe defenses figured out that they could get significant pressure with 4 and a few stunts. And that allowed the secondary to sit on routes and double our only two receiving options. I believe Cook led the nfl (in a bad way) in rushing yards before contact AND yards after first contact.

I always try to think of replacement level. Could Shurmur (used as a reference), have continued high level production with a significantly worse line AND a tougher schedule AND the defense not playing as well as last year? Or a OC other than Shurmur?

Maybe. Im not convinced. But that's just my opinion.

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.

Post #: 2536

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/16/2019 9:08:50 PM

Pager

Posts: 10500
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

Flip to JAX makes a lot more sense in this context:

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/does-move-nick-foles-jacksonville-171742786.html

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.

Post #: 2537

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/17/2019 5:45:51 AM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 26337
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

VikingUpdate.com @VikingUpdate

How much do the #Vikings really need to invest in the offensive line? Seven of the 12 playoff teams (but 3 of the final 4) have three first- or second-round picks starting on their offensive line. A look at the rankings and starting OLs in the playoffs.

We have two. O’Neil and Reiff. Get another.

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 2538

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/17/2019 6:23:27 AM

Ricky J

Posts: 18185
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: online

There ya go. This is gonna be easier than we thought ...

Post #: 2539

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/17/2019 6:34:12 AM

Todd M

Posts: 39776
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

I don't see locking down 1 spot in FA and 1 in the draft as this insurmountable thing.

18 is a good spot to be sitting in for the best or 2nd best guard in the draft. Surely Rick will be tempted to trade down but even if he does, as long as it's not to the bottom, or out, we should be able to land a starting guard with our 1st pick.

Post #: 2540

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/17/2019 6:56:49 AM

ruffenach

Posts: 3642
Joined: 1/12/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

Flip came to Minnesota and turned a NFCCG offense into a sputtering mess. Given a decent QB, RB, WRs and albeit a shitty Oline [nice of you to throw that in there as you speed on by] he did nothing to improve that unit and ignored the HC and did his own thing despite its weekly failures and his inability to adapt.

If this team doesn't turn it around this next year the bold is what most people will remember about Zimmer, but under a slightly different context, when he doesn't work here any more.

Tough guy image gone bad.

Not one thing he said in public about needing to run the ball had a positive effect. That needs to be considered when we think about his ability to lead.

I wasn't impressed with the Flip offense. But I equally unimpressed with Zim throwing him under the bus.

Sorry about the negativity but bringing in the Denver rejects has both disaster and desperation written all over it.

No one was clamouring for the oc position after Zim made Flip fall on the sword. The Kubiak gang of misfits however would take any gig.

Zimmer and Spielman are betting their career on these moves. I would rather go with the quarterback who actually won a super bowl than an up and coming stud. Zimmer is hiring his man and giving him the authority to do his job.

Post #: 2541

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/17/2019 8:42:49 AM

Guest

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

I don't see locking down 1 spot in FA and 1 in the draft as this insurmountable thing.

18 is a good spot to be sitting in for the best or 2nd best guard in the draft. Surely Rick will be tempted to trade down but even if he does, as long as it's not to the bottom, or out, we should be able to land a starting guard with our 1st pick.

Keep Zimmer out of the draft war room until about the 3rd round...

Post #: 2542

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/17/2019 9:18:40 AM

Trekgeekscott

Posts: 38421
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: United Federation of Planets
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

So according to Pager and DL

Flip is a better coach that Frank Reich.

Sure. Ok. Got it.

Makes perfect sense to me.

That might be the worst reading comprehension ever...

If I got that from what you wrote it isn't reading comprehension that is the problem.

I comprehend just fine.

the problem was how poorly you communicated your thoughts.

_____________________________

I don't want to go through things that don't kill me and make me stronger anymore.

Post #: 2543

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/17/2019 9:59:03 AM

bohumm

Posts: 5705
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: Altadena, CA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

So according to Pager and DL

Flip is a better coach that Frank Reich.

Sure. Ok. Got it.

Makes perfect sense to me.

That might be the worst reading comprehension ever...

If I got that from what you wrote it isn't reading comprehension that is the problem.

I comprehend just fine.

the problem was how poorly you communicated your thoughts.

KGdaBom, what did you do with Scott?

Post #: 2544

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/17/2019 10:33:41 AM

SteveR

Posts: 3574
Joined: 1/24/2011
Status: offline

So we got Kubiak and his gang. If I cross my eyes, I can perhaps see some positives. Mostly, it seems like a lateral move that doesn't really push the needle toward Super Bowl. Oh well, all we can do is see how it plays out. I suppose how Cousins works with Kubiak is one of the main things to watch.

We really need to fix our chemistry. It seems like a bunch of guys doing their job with people they don't like. I can't see Kubiak being the great healer of that.

I was okay with letting Keenum go, but I now realize he had a certain spark to him that worked within the team's dynamic. He had a low-key leadership quality to him, and I think guys rallied around him a bit. We don't have anyone like that anymore. Who is the leader on offense? No personality particularly stands out to me. Theilen is maybe as close as it gets, but he doesn't have a leadership personality to him. He has to feed off an Alpha.

Same with defense. I think Neuman had the Case quality for the defense. Guys like Smith, Rhodes, etc. aren't leaders. They need to perform for someone above them in personality.

This goes to the coaching, too. Zimmer can't be the man. He needs to be a man below THE man.

Yeah, yeah, it's all a bit of psychological gobbleygook, but it's Thursday, and my fingers wanted to type...

Post #: 2545

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/17/2019 10:34:08 AM

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9312
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline

.
.
Nick Olson@NicholasJOlson
Interesting that the Packers are reportedly interested in hiring Rick Dennison as their OL coach, considering the reports that the Vikings hiring Dennison was practically a done deal.

Given the relative delay, maybe there is something else going on with the Vikings' OL hire?

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.

Post #: 2546

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/17/2019 10:38:35 AM

David Levine

Posts: 76786
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

So according to Pager and DL

Flip is a better coach that Frank Reich.

Sure. Ok. Got it.

Makes perfect sense to me.

That might be the worst reading comprehension ever...

If I got that from what you wrote it isn't reading comprehension that is the problem.

I comprehend just fine.

the problem was how poorly you communicated your thoughts.

Considering I'm not the only one that you jumped to an inaccurate conclusion with, maybe its not *our* problem?

Neither of us said Flip was a better coach than Reich, we both just disagreed with your assessment that Flip is horrible.

Its possible that both Flip and Reich could be good coaches, isn't it? It doesn't have to be the either/or you want to make it.

Post #: 2547

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/17/2019 10:39:13 AM

David Levine

Posts: 76786
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

So according to Pager and DL

Flip is a better coach that Frank Reich.

Sure. Ok. Got it.

Makes perfect sense to me.

That might be the worst reading comprehension ever...

If I got that from what you wrote it isn't reading comprehension that is the problem.

I comprehend just fine.

the problem was how poorly you communicated your thoughts.

KGdaBom, what did you do with Scott?

Logic!!

Post #: 2548

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/17/2019 10:40:04 AM

Trekgeekscott

Posts: 38421
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: United Federation of Planets
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
Nick Olson@NicholasJOlson
Interesting that the Packers are reportedly interested in hiring Rick Dennison as their OL coach, considering the reports that the Vikings hiring Dennison was practically a done deal.

Given the relative delay, maybe there is something else going on with the Vikings' OL hire?

Maybe the Vikes are pursuing the Colts guy?

_____________________________

I don't want to go through things that don't kill me and make me stronger anymore.

Post #: 2549

RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/17/2019 10:53:07 AM

David Levine

Posts: 76786
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
Nick Olson@NicholasJOlson
Interesting that the Packers are reportedly interested in hiring Rick Dennison as their OL coach, considering the reports that the Vikings hiring Dennison was practically a done deal.

Given the relative delay, maybe there is something else going on with the Vikings' OL hire?

Maybe the Vikes are pursuing the Colts guy?