Talk Vikes and Other MN Sports Talk Vikes and Other MN Sports

Forums  Register  Login  My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums 

Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ  Ticket List  Log Out

RE: General Vikes Talk

 
Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [The Minnesota Vikings] >> Vikes Talk >> RE: General Vikes Talk Page: <<   < prev  122 123 [124] 125 126   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/9/2019 10:32:28 PM   
Tom Sykes


Posts: 2677
Joined: 7/27/2007
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Here Zim had his shorts in a bunch regarding Keenum and his "lucky horse shoe"

Cousins turns the ball over way more. At least Keenum could and would (right or wrong) try to make a play when things broke down.

All Cousins would do is soil his diaper and curl into the fetal position.

Keenum had 15 INTs and 22 Fs

Cousins had 10 INTs and 9 Fs


What's with the facts, Jack?!

My bad. I typed 11 fumbles for Keenum but my fat little vienna sausage finger came up with 22.
Post #: 3076
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/9/2019 10:54:28 PM  1 votes
Tom Sykes


Posts: 2677
Joined: 7/27/2007
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Here Zim had his shorts in a bunch regarding Keenum and his "lucky horse shoe"

Cousins turns the ball over way more. At least Keenum could and would (right or wrong) try to make a play when things broke down.

All Cousins would do is soil his diaper and curl into the fetal position.

Keenum had 15 INTs and 22 Fs

Cousins had 10 INTs and 9 Fs

To be correct

Year played with Vikings...

2017 Keenum

7 INT / 1 FUM / 1 LOST

2018 Cousins

10 INT / 9 FUM / 7 LOST


to look at the BIG picture...

Cousins has played 78 games - 65 INT / 48 FUM / 22 LOST

Keenum had his issues with INT and FUM, but we gave Kirk the huge 3 year non voidable contract to be ELITE... He certainly doesnt play with a horse shoe in his pocket, nor does he seem to have big balls... I never witnessed his receivers screaming at Keenum either...

Kirk is a stat monster that seems to have warts in leadership and winning big games...

Keenum is a very average player who when surrounded by talent and aided by a lucky horseshoe can play way over his head, but has never sustained such levels.

Both have major warts, neither will EVER win a Super Bowl?

BUT we have Kirk and must figure out how to win with him...

Hou cn spin however you want .... thr 2017 vikes were. vastly different - all the way around, not just the QBs.

Last year, 2 QBs on new teams.

When comparing why wouldnt you use the common denominator of consecutive years on Vikings teams that other than a few OL changes were very much same. Its what the QB did while on our team in consecutive years, not what they did on another team...

but whatever Keenum Sucked in 2018 on the Broncos, but had an exceptional year prior for us and was one game from the Super Bowl... may never have had that again and we will never know...

Cousins Sucked in 2018 on the Vikings, he has been a stat monster but has always sucked in turn overs, game crushing interceptions, failure to will his team to wins... he has flamed out in his one chance in the play offs and is well documented to have never won a big game, much less nearly any game on a National stage...

But next year Im sure he will lead us to the promise land behind a beefed up OL because that is all that was stopping him from beating Chicago and making the play offs this year...

There is no common denominator. Who cares, you would take a perfectly fair comparison and spin it to show that Cousins is the anti-Christ.
Post #: 3077
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/10/2019 9:44:38 AM   
Bill Jandro

 

Posts: 14368
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline
I was comparing Cousins 18 season with Keenums 17

I realize Keenum did lousy this season.

Simply put I liked Keenum better. His ability to extend plays really made a huge difference. It also seemed like he was was really well liked and respected by his team mates.

Not sure Cousins was very well liked in Wash. and tiger doesn't change his stripes.

But I will hope for the best...

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 3078
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/10/2019 9:47:49 AM   
Todd M

 

Posts: 38062
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: online
I feel like if we could switch the years we had them we would have won the SB in 17 and gotten the 1st pick in 18.
Post #: 3079
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/10/2019 10:11:08 AM   
thebigo


Posts: 25397
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

I was comparing Cousins 18 season with Keenums 17

I realize Keenum did lousy this season.

Simply put I liked Keenum better. His ability to extend plays really made a huge difference. It also seemed like he was was really well liked and respected by his team mates.

Not sure Cousins was very well liked in Wash. and tiger doesn't change his stripes.

But I will hope for the best...


My understanding is he was well liked by the team, not so much management, after the major fail that was the primadonna Robert Griffin, the baby Jesus to Redskins management/ownership. It is kind of amazing, because Cousins essentially resurrected them after that disaster.
Post #: 3080
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/10/2019 10:14:21 AM   
thebigo


Posts: 25397
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

I was comparing Cousins 18 season with Keenums 17

I realize Keenum did lousy this season.

Simply put I liked Keenum better. His ability to extend plays really made a huge difference. It also seemed like he was was really well liked and respected by his team mates.

Not sure Cousins was very well liked in Wash. and tiger doesn't change his stripes.

But I will hope for the best...


Actually your original post was all written in the current tense... "Cousins turns the ball over way more" etc etc
Post #: 3081
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/10/2019 10:55:12 AM   
Pager


Posts: 8829
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: online
https://www.dailynorseman.com/2019/2/8/18217438/league-wide-qb-vs-offensive-line-performance-how-do-the-vikings

Good article. I'm not a huge fan of QBR. I'm not sure where the line ranking is from, but it adds value to a conversation dominated by opinion. It is a similar vein to the Run game rank + defense rank view of Superbowl winners. Very few QBs over come a score above 15 and win superbowls. Keenum couldn't do it with a score in the single digits (8) in 2017.

Cousins outplays his lines (except rookie season). Last year he outplayed his line by a lot.

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.
Post #: 3082
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/10/2019 10:59:38 AM   
Pager


Posts: 8829
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

I was comparing Cousins 18 season with Keenums 17

I realize Keenum did lousy this season.

Simply put I liked Keenum better. His ability to extend plays really made a huge difference. It also seemed like he was was really well liked and respected by his team mates.

Not sure Cousins was very well liked in Wash. and tiger doesn't change his stripes.

But I will hope for the best...



Thielan was openly advocating for Cousins immediately after Keenum's outlier season.

I like Keenum, but he is nothing more than a bridge QB.

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.
Post #: 3083
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/10/2019 11:02:27 AM   
Tom Sykes


Posts: 2677
Joined: 7/27/2007
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

I was comparing Cousins 18 season with Keenums 17

I realize Keenum did lousy this season.

Simply put I liked Keenum better. His ability to extend plays really made a huge difference. It also seemed like he was was really well liked and respected by his team mates.

Not sure Cousins was very well liked in Wash. and tiger doesn't change his stripes.

But I will hope for the best...

Cousins and Keenum are almost opposites. You get and give away something by choosing one over the other.

IMO we have seen Keenum at his absolute best but Cousins far from it. So comparisons are off the mark.

Neither are complete QBs that will carry an offense .... both players need their teams to be in order, operating at a high level, to play their best.

Hopefully, Kubanski will get this rolling.

< Message edited by Tom Sykes -- 2/10/2019 11:04:11 AM >
Post #: 3084
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/10/2019 12:28:53 PM   
Ragnarök


Posts: 1115
Joined: 9/10/2017
Status: online
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/02/10/stefon-diggs-hopes-vikings-fans-will-be-patient/
Post #: 3085
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/10/2019 1:57:49 PM   
Tom Sykes


Posts: 2677
Joined: 7/27/2007
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/02/10/stefon-diggs-hopes-vikings-fans-will-be-patient/

Not buying Cousins 'primetime/games that matter' reputation. Yet.

The Vikings were simply not as good as the Rams, Saints, Bears, and Patriots. And they played the Seahawks at the top of Seattle's roll in Seattle. Which is not to make excuses for sucking ... our team sucked, including Cousins.

I'm no Cousins apologist. It's absolutely true that Cousins has not a proved a thing and, as you stated in an earlier post, simply puts up numbers (which is different from winning games). However, nothing is written in stone. Put Cousins on a good team first and then we'll go from there. The arm talent is definitely there if he has the guts to deliver.

< Message edited by Tom Sykes -- 2/10/2019 2:00:08 PM >
Post #: 3086
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/10/2019 2:19:13 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

Posts: 13949
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
Cousins is the kind of quarterback who needs a solid offensive line- more so than an Aaron Rodgers or Russel Wilson. Brady doesn't get around either, but he gets rid of the ball so quickly plus he has a solid offensive line. I would like to see Cousins have more plays where he passes before the receiver breaks.

_____________________________

Alone we can do so little; together we can do so much. (Helen Keller)
Post #: 3087
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/10/2019 2:52:12 PM   
thebigo


Posts: 25397
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Cousins is the kind of quarterback who needs a solid offensive line- more so than an Aaron Rodgers or Russel Wilson. Brady doesn't get around either, but he gets rid of the ball so quickly plus he has a solid offensive line. I would like to see Cousins have more plays where he passes before the receiver breaks.


I'm happy to say it appears that Rodgers has hit that point in his career that he needs a better Oline, he's been injured the last 2 seasons trying to make plays outside of the pocket, he has started to look like he does not like sprinting out of the pocket any more, partly because his 35-36 year old legs don't get him away from the rush like they used to, and partly because of the injuries he's incurred.

Plus I heard the refs were starting to crack down late season on the non-holding holding blocking technique the Pukers OL was cheating with.

But I digress.

< Message edited by thebigo -- 2/10/2019 2:54:59 PM >
Post #: 3088
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/10/2019 6:34:35 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

Posts: 13949
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
I didn't hear about the Packers getting called more for the holding. That's really good news, especially if continues. Rodgers still buys time in the pocket and holds onto the ball longer than most quarterbacks, I'm sure.

I just checked Cousins stats. He averages less than 3 yards per rush for about 8 yards per game and just one TD. Compare that to Rodgers last season: 17 yards per game and 6 yards per rush and surprisingly for me just 2 TD's.

When I review the numbers, I think Rodgers scrambles mostly to keep the play alive and still wants to throw. He has never rushed for more than an average of 24 yards per game in his career.

_____________________________

Alone we can do so little; together we can do so much. (Helen Keller)
Post #: 3089
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/11/2019 10:46:12 AM   
thebigo


Posts: 25397
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I didn't hear about the Packers getting called more for the holding. That's really good news, especially if continues. Rodgers still buys time in the pocket and holds onto the ball longer than most quarterbacks, I'm sure.

I just checked Cousins stats. He averages less than 3 yards per rush for about 8 yards per game and just one TD. Compare that to Rodgers last season: 17 yards per game and 6 yards per rush and surprisingly for me just 2 TD's.

When I review the numbers, I think Rodgers scrambles mostly to keep the play alive and still wants to throw. He has never rushed for more than an average of 24 yards per game in his career.


What I heard didn't specifically mention the Packers, it was some announcer (maybe their expert retired ref) that said it during one of the games. I'm guessing maybe teams league wide were starting to incorporate it and the league decided to crack down on it. Because at that point, it's no longer advantage Packers, after all.
Post #: 3090
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/12/2019 9:41:19 AM   
BigSky


Posts: 4627
Joined: 8/31/2013
From: Montana, USA!
Status: offline
I think the one thing that was the most detrimental to our offense has nothing to do with Cousins
or Keenum, but has everything to do with the loss of both Shurmur and Sparano.

< Message edited by BigSky -- 2/12/2019 9:42:53 AM >
Post #: 3091
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/12/2019 12:15:53 PM   
Tom Sykes


Posts: 2677
Joined: 7/27/2007
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline
nm

< Message edited by Tom Sykes -- 2/12/2019 2:26:04 PM >
Post #: 3092
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/12/2019 3:18:30 PM   
Nate

 

Posts: 2066
Joined: 9/10/2009
From: A Galaxy Far Far Away...
Status: offline
I'm very much on board for upgrades on the o-line. However, the pieces that I'm very interested in are the o-line coach and scheme. At some point, we have to be able to win without pro-bowl talent everywhere, and that is on the coaches/scheme. I look at the Patriots and they continually keep Brady upright and the pocket clean no matter who they face and what personnel they lose year-to-year. I bet we could swap lines and somehow Brady would stay upright and Cousins would be sack-bait. Yes, Brady can read defenses well and change the play, and they generally scheme to get the ball out quick. But when they need yards, either through the air or on the ground, they just get it done. That's acting as a unit, knowing your assignments and having a winning scheme that your talent can support. I hope to heck we can figure out something that keeps Cousins comfy and allows us to run better, because no matter who we get (rookie or FA) it'll be new folks that need to be coached up and function as a unit.
Post #: 3093
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/12/2019 4:05:48 PM   
Todd M

 

Posts: 38062
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: online
quote:

In 2018 Treadwell ranked 93rd out of 96 WRs in yard per route run and ranked 113th out of 125 WRs in run blocking via PFF.


I don't think WR is that big of a need. With what we have and what's available in the mid to later rounds, and 2nd tier guys...all we need is a 3/4/5. AR did more than fine as a #3. We just have to stop giving snaps to Treadwell.

We have an amazing 1/2 punch filling it the rest should not be that difficult a task.
Post #: 3094
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/12/2019 4:48:51 PM   
Bill Jandro

 

Posts: 14368
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

In 2018 Treadwell ranked 93rd out of 96 WRs in yard per route run and ranked 113th out of 125 WRs in run blocking via PFF.


I don't think WR is that big of a need. With what we have and what's available in the mid to later rounds, and 2nd tier guys...all we need is a 3/4/5. AR did more than fine as a #3. We just have to stop giving snaps to Treadwell.

We have an amazing 1/2 punch filling it the rest should not be that difficult a task.


Thought he was suppose to be a very good blocker.

Guy sux at everything except collecting a pay check.

What a terrible pick

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 3095
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/12/2019 6:56:32 PM   
joejitsu

 

Posts: 10495
Joined: 3/21/2010
From: 60411
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

In 2018 Treadwell ranked 93rd out of 96 WRs in yard per route run and ranked 113th out of 125 WRs in run blocking via PFF.


I don't think WR is that big of a need. With what we have and what's available in the mid to later rounds, and 2nd tier guys...all we need is a 3/4/5. AR did more than fine as a #3. We just have to stop giving snaps to Treadwell.

We have an amazing 1/2 punch filling it the rest should not be that difficult a task.


Thought he was suppose to be a very good blocker.

Guy sux at everything except collecting a pay check.

What a terrible pick


True. But, I bet that we hear more than once that Treadwell is having a great camp, he finally turned the corner, etc. And they will roll out the same drecky player to start the season.
Post #: 3096
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/12/2019 9:22:29 PM   
Viking Rich

 

Posts: 1618
Joined: 2/28/2017
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

In 2018 Treadwell ranked 93rd out of 96 WRs in yard per route run and ranked 113th out of 125 WRs in run blocking via PFF.


I don't think WR is that big of a need. With what we have and what's available in the mid to later rounds, and 2nd tier guys...all we need is a 3/4/5. AR did more than fine as a #3. We just have to stop giving snaps to Treadwell.

We have an amazing 1/2 punch filling it the rest should not be that difficult a task.


I disagree that WR isn't a big need. And if not WR, then we need another weapon (fast TE) to open up and stretch the field. Teams stopped blitzing Cousins as much and were double teaming both Thielen and Diggs late in the season. Rudy was too slow to open up the field, and Treadwell just flat out sucked. No other threats downfield. And it showed big time. The Vikings had NO answer.

We need another weapon that can give Cousins another target, instead of being forced to dump off to Rudy for a 2 yard gain when we need 6 on 3rd down.

_____________________________

History Shows Us That if a Head Coach Does Not Win a Super Bowl Within 5 Years of His Hire, He Never Will.

Mike Zimmer is Now in Year Six...
Post #: 3097
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/13/2019 7:26:46 AM   
Bill Jandro

 

Posts: 14368
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline
Treadwell has a dead cap hit of 3.16 ml for 2019

I know we're cap strapped so it would be in everyones best interest if some team would take him off our hands.

Maybe send him to Clev along with a 7th rd pick.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 3098
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/13/2019 8:53:05 AM   
Tom Sykes


Posts: 2677
Joined: 7/27/2007
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Viking Rich

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

In 2018 Treadwell ranked 93rd out of 96 WRs in yard per route run and ranked 113th out of 125 WRs in run blocking via PFF.


I don't think WR is that big of a need. With what we have and what's available in the mid to later rounds, and 2nd tier guys...all we need is a 3/4/5. AR did more than fine as a #3. We just have to stop giving snaps to Treadwell.

We have an amazing 1/2 punch filling it the rest should not be that difficult a task.


I disagree that WR isn't a big need. And if not WR, then we need another weapon (fast TE) to open up and stretch the field. Teams stopped blitzing Cousins as much and were double teaming both Thielen and Diggs late in the season. Rudy was too slow to open up the field, and Treadwell just flat out sucked. No other threats downfield. And it showed big time. The Vikings had NO answer.

We need another weapon that can give Cousins another target, instead of being forced to dump off to Rudy for a 2 yard gain when we need 6 on 3rd down.

We all agree that TE needs some juice. But we are very thin at WR. Very thin. Its Thielen, Diggs, and then the Mariana Trench. Beebe looks promising as a chain mover in the slot and Robinson sprinting for the endzone ... neither are well-rounded enough to back-up in case of injury.

Unfortunately, because of glaring needs at OL, LB, TE, and DT if no Sheldon - we will have find WR depth by picking over the FA carcasses of other teams (late rd draft picks simply wont cover the injury bug).

< Message edited by Tom Sykes -- 2/13/2019 9:18:58 AM >
Post #: 3099
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/13/2019 9:16:38 AM   
Tom Sykes


Posts: 2677
Joined: 7/27/2007
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline
Sports Illustrated
Verified account @SInow
Scoop: @Ourand_SBJ tells @JimmyTraina on the latest SI Media Podcast that the Thanksgiving night game will likely be Eagles at Vikings http://go.si.com/TPYNjqu

Andrew Krammer
‏ @Andrew_Krammer
49m49 minutes ago
Andrew Krammer Retweeted Sports Illustrated
Could be a third Thanksgiving game in four years for the Vikings. But schedule isn’t set in stone until April.

< Message edited by Tom Sykes -- 2/13/2019 9:21:25 AM >
Post #: 3100
Page:   <<   < prev  122 123 [124] 125 126   next >   >>
All Forums >> [The Minnesota Vikings] >> Vikes Talk >> RE: General Vikes Talk Page: <<   < prev  122 123 [124] 125 126   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.5.5 Unicode