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RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/15/2019 7:54:33 PM   
marty


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Joined: 12/28/2007
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I think Favre would have won multiple SBs, if he had Holmgren for a few more years, or if he gotten matched up with just about any of the HCs that won a SB in the last 20 years.

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SKOL to the BOWL !!!
Post #: 3151
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/15/2019 8:01:52 PM   
marty


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Joined: 12/28/2007
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LOVE the idea of dumping the missile and Remmers, and trading Waynes, those would be excellent moves.

Keep Richardson, and get Griffen to restructure. A lot of people think they would be better off going with Weatherly, I am not sure Weatherly would hold up, and people forget how good Griffen was a few years ago. I think there is a good chance Griffen bounces bounces back, it may as well be with Minnesota.

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SKOL to the BOWL !!!
Post #: 3152
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/15/2019 8:17:17 PM   
thebigo


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Joined: 7/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I think Favre would have won multiple SBs, if he had Holmgren for a few more years, or if he gotten matched up with just about any of the HCs that won a SB in the last 20 years.


Farte could have won more Superbowls if not for that nagging habit of throwing bone headed season ending interceptions.
Post #: 3153
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/16/2019 12:01:50 AM   
marty


Posts: 9837
Joined: 12/28/2007
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And when he had Holmgren, he didn't throw those INTs, Holmgren chewed him out.

As I said,

I think Favre would have won multiple SBs, if he had Holmgren for a few more years, or if he gotten matched up with just about any of the HCs that won a SB in the last 20 years.

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!
Post #: 3154
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/16/2019 8:09:50 AM   
Tom Sykes


Posts: 3056
Joined: 7/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

And when he had Holmgren, he didn't throw those INTs, Holmgren chewed him out.

As I said,

I think Favre would have won multiple SBs, if he had Holmgren for a few more years, or if he gotten matched up with just about any of the HCs that won a SB in the last 20 years.

No. That’s a pure Farve as unicorn fantasy.

Farve simply didn’t have the wiring to overcome his brainless impulses. Which got worse with age ... not different coaching.
Post #: 3155
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/16/2019 8:46:56 AM   
Todd M

 

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Without that 12th man penalty that INT doesn't happen. ~50 FG (or less with a run play that gets anything) and we were off to the SB that year...we would have overcome all that BS dirty play, all the missed calls, all the TO's. THAT ONE ****ING PENALTY will be my most hated Vikings screw up.
Post #: 3156
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/16/2019 9:10:17 AM   
jbusse

 

Posts: 997
Joined: 9/11/2013
From: Atlanta, GA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Without that 12th man penalty that INT doesn't happen. ~50 FG (or less with a run play that gets anything) and we were off to the SB that year...we would have overcome all that BS dirty play, all the missed calls, all the TO's. THAT ONE ****ING PENALTY will be my most hated Vikings screw up.

Especially since 12th man penalties on the offense almost never happen.

For me it's Robert Smith going out of bounds three times during that one important drive against the Falcons. What makes it all the more maddening is that Smith is intelligent and should have known better.
Post #: 3157
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/16/2019 9:16:20 AM   
thebigo


Posts: 27088
Joined: 7/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Without that 12th man penalty that INT doesn't happen. ~50 FG (or less with a run play that gets anything) and we were off to the SB that year...we would have overcome all that BS dirty play, all the missed calls, all the TO's. THAT ONE ****ING PENALTY will be my most hated Vikings screw up.

Especially since 12th man penalties on the offense almost never happen.

For me it's Robert Smith going out of bounds three times during that one important drive against the Falcons. What makes it all the more maddening is that Smith is intelligent and should have known better.


At least he sure likes to portray himself as intelligent. Book smarts obviously don't necessarily transfer to on the field smarts.
Post #: 3158
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/16/2019 9:18:07 AM   
thebigo


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Joined: 7/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

And when he had Holmgren, he didn't throw those INTs, Holmgren chewed him out.

As I said,

I think Favre would have won multiple SBs, if he had Holmgren for a few more years, or if he gotten matched up with just about any of the HCs that won a SB in the last 20 years.


If he didn't throw those INTs, what would Holmgren be chewing him out about?

What he needed was more seasons with the leagues #1 defense, which he had the year of his lone Superbowl win. It's that simple.

Butt Farte's career passer rating: 86.0
Casey Kasem's career passer rating: 84.5

< Message edited by thebigo -- 2/16/2019 9:36:56 AM >
Post #: 3159
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/16/2019 9:51:22 AM   
kurt bilben


Posts: 19061
Joined: 7/28/2007
From: socal as well
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Without that 12th man penalty that INT doesn't happen. ~50 FG (or less with a run play that gets anything) and we were off to the SB that year...we would have overcome all that BS dirty play, all the missed calls, all the TO's. THAT ONE ****ING PENALTY will be my most hated Vikings screw up.

Especially since 12th man penalties on the offense almost never happen.




And out of a timeout.

Childress freakin sucked. Must be something about that name..😉
Post #: 3160
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/16/2019 9:52:46 AM   
kurt bilben


Posts: 19061
Joined: 7/28/2007
From: socal as well
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

And when he had Holmgren, he didn't throw those INTs, Holmgren chewed him out.

As I said,

I think Favre would have won multiple SBs, if he had Holmgren for a few more years, or if he gotten matched up with just about any of the HCs that won a SB in the last 20 years.


If he didn't throw those INTs, what would Holmgren be chewing him out about?

What he needed was more seasons with the leagues #1 defense, which he had the year of his lone Superbowl win. It's that simple.

Butt Farte's career passer rating: 86.0
Casey Kasem's career passer rating: 84.5



Really Todd “Butt Farte”?

Wow
Post #: 3161
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/16/2019 9:53:45 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 20192
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Cousins has the same problem Rodgers has, and that is why Rodgers only won 1 SB so far.

Both throw nice deep balls, but don't attack with enough quick passes, the short game. They don't quickly evade a rush and make something happen.

Cousins had a nice start, but plenty of non SB winning QBs like Carson Palmer, Sam Bradford, Fitzpatrick, Goff, have arms, but won't beat you with a quick game, so they lose in the playoffs, or don't make the playoffs.


You apply that to Rodgers huh?


The Rodgers thing simply allowed him to weave in a SB win for his favorite team.
Post #: 3162
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/16/2019 9:54:39 AM   
Bill Johanesen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

"The Vikings had the resources to improve the blocking but chose, instead, to pour all of that money into Cousins..."

Do you even proof what you read? Or is it a simple stream of consciousness?

All that money? Fact is, the obsessed old timer who continually rails against Cousins resorts to outright lies. We went on a defensive player extension spree like the cap was unlimited! Results: never have I seen a higher priced defense fold so badly as the Vikings D did for a large chunk of the 2018 season.

Well, since it was a quote from an article I provided and clearly said fact or fiction it was worth reading, am I the one who needs better comprehension?

But whatever.. Im just here to provide some comic relief to this morgue


Well, you are doing a fine job of comic relief. A GREAT job in fact.
Post #: 3163
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/16/2019 9:56:00 AM   
Bill Johanesen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Cousins and Rodgers being similar gives me hope that Cousins can win a SB.

In their SB winningseason, Rodgers was fortunate to have a defense that generated a lot of takeaways, combined with Rodgers running for more 1st downs, and they also did a lot of screens their SB year.

So if the Vikes do a lot of screens, Cousins occasionally runs for 1st downs, and the defense can generate a lot of turnovers, then the Vikings can win the SB with Kirk Cousins.



packer SB madness!
Post #: 3164
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/16/2019 10:02:28 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 20192
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

Kirk is a very likable guy with a big arm who consistently puts up huge numbers and great stat lines... He is sorta a combination of Christian Ponder and Sam Bradford... So many of you here called Bradford a check down Charlie and discounted his stats, yet are enamored with Kirks numbers line.

What he doesnt have is the heart and killer instinct of a Brett Farve type...

Top level QBs dont let things get in their head and under their skin... Frail psyche's fold in big games, when everyone is looking for them to be the man and carry the team to a victory...

Honestly I still hope to be proven wrong! BUT the signs are all there and this past year did NOTHING to dispel the already problematic trends.

Another game next year like home against Buffalo and then the complete inability to win when in the spotlight, prime time or Monday night and do any of you serious think all we have to do is get in the play offs with Kirk and we have a shot?

Dont forget how long some of you stuck behind Ponder BTW unable to even admit to the negatives...

YOU VIKE THIS!



Serious question.... do you have a Word doc or something you quickly cut/paste into a post then adjust the verbiage for your incessant Cousins criticisms? Maybe categorized by type of whine?

Or do you create each post from scratch? Because if it's from scratch that is a hell of a lot of typing. All told, what, 35 pages? 50?
Post #: 3165
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/16/2019 10:34:03 AM   
marty


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Joined: 12/28/2007
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Compare Favre's playoff stats while the Packers had Holmgren to after Holmgren. He threw some picks trying to beat a superior Dallas team, but not many, not until after Holmgren left.

As I said:

I think Favre would have won multiple SBs, if he had Holmgren for a few more years, or if he gotten matched up with just about any of the HCs that won a SB in the last 20 years.

The HC makes a difference. A team with a SB winning HC is disciplined, and doesn't make stupid mistakes like the 12th man penalty, or doesn't usually give the ball away 6 times, or doesn't usually have the QB throwing picks at crunchtime.

I am glad Favre didn't get more rings, and am glad Rodgers no longer has a HC with which he had won a Super Bowl, there is now a decent chance Rodgers never wins another SB.

I am concerned that the Vikes might not have a HC that can win a SB, but have a QB that might be talented enough to win one. The problem seems to be more with Kirk's mind, it doesn't seem quick enough to see things developing, or to be ahead of the defense. I thought the same thing of Jay Cutler.

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SKOL to the BOWL !!!
Post #: 3166
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/16/2019 10:35:46 AM   
thebigo


Posts: 27088
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kurt bilben

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

And when he had Holmgren, he didn't throw those INTs, Holmgren chewed him out.

As I said,

I think Favre would have won multiple SBs, if he had Holmgren for a few more years, or if he gotten matched up with just about any of the HCs that won a SB in the last 20 years.


If he didn't throw those INTs, what would Holmgren be chewing him out about?

What he needed was more seasons with the leagues #1 defense, which he had the year of his lone Superbowl win. It's that simple.

Butt Farte's career passer rating: 86.0
Casey Kasem's career passer rating: 84.5



Really Todd “Butt Farte”?

Wow


In honor of ol' RBI (Ralph Irving) who actually owned a Viking #4 jersey in 2009 with that monicker on it. And wore it around.
Post #: 3167
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/16/2019 10:39:59 AM   
thebigo


Posts: 27088
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Compare Favre's playoff stats while the Packers had Holmgren to after Holmgren. He threw some picks trying to beat a superior Dallas team, but not many, not until after Holmgren left.

As I said:

I think Favre would have won multiple SBs, if he had Holmgren for a few more years, or if he gotten matched up with just about any of the HCs that won a SB in the last 20 years.

The HC makes a difference. A team with a SB winning HC is disciplined, and doesn't make stupid mistakes like the 12th man penalty, or doesn't usually give the ball away 6 times, or doesn't usually have the QB throwing picks at crunchtime.

I am glad Favre didn't get more rings, and am glad Rodgers no longer has a HC with which he had won a Super Bowl, there is now a decent chance Rodgers never wins another SB.

I am concerned that the Vikes might not have a HC that can win a SB, but have a QB that might be talented enough to win one. The problem seems to be more with Kirk's mind, it doesn't seem quick enough to see things developing, or to be ahead of the defense. I thought the same thing of Jay Cutler.


Yeah, well, Holmgren has won SBs everywhere he's been a head coach.
Post #: 3168
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/16/2019 10:47:50 AM   
Todd M

 

Posts: 35915
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Without that 12th man penalty that INT doesn't happen. ~50 FG (or less with a run play that gets anything) and we were off to the SB that year...we would have overcome all that BS dirty play, all the missed calls, all the TO's. THAT ONE ****ING PENALTY will be my most hated Vikings screw up.

Especially since 12th man penalties on the offense almost never happen.

For me it's Robert Smith going out of bounds three times during that one important drive against the Falcons. What makes it all the more maddening is that Smith is intelligent and should have known better.


I've argued this one before and while I've moved from 100% clearing him of any wrong doing...a little, people have ignored the account of that drive...his going OOB's, at least a couple of them, were natural runs...gaining first downs that didn't *hurt in any way that should have cost us...not like the damn missed FG anyway. There were not dumb runs that should infuriate the way they do.

*like forcing his way from going OOB's and fumbling would have anyway

< Message edited by Todd M -- 2/16/2019 10:49:06 AM >
Post #: 3169
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/16/2019 12:10:08 PM   
Tom Sykes


Posts: 3056
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Compare Favre's playoff stats while the Packers had Holmgren to after Holmgren. He threw some picks trying to beat a superior Dallas team, but not many, not until after Holmgren left.

As I said:

I think Favre would have won multiple SBs, if he had Holmgren for a few more years, or if he gotten matched up with just about any of the HCs that won a SB in the last 20 years.

The HC makes a difference. A team with a SB winning HC is disciplined, and doesn't make stupid mistakes like the 12th man penalty, or doesn't usually give the ball away 6 times, or doesn't usually have the QB throwing picks at crunchtime.

I am glad Favre didn't get more rings, and am glad Rodgers no longer has a HC with which he had won a Super Bowl, there is now a decent chance Rodgers never wins another SB.

I am concerned that the Vikes might not have a HC that can win a SB, but have a QB that might be talented enough to win one. The problem seems to be more with Kirk's mind, it doesn't seem quick enough to see things developing, or to be ahead of the defense. I thought the same thing of Jay Cutler.


Yeah, well, Holmgren has won SBs everywhere he's been a head coach.

(insert small cough here) ... strange how nobody ever talks about that one time the Steelers were disqualified from that SB, giving Holmgren’s Seahawks the victory. Just a small sidenote in history now.
Post #: 3170
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/16/2019 12:56:07 PM   
Ragnarök


Posts: 2263
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

Kirk is a very likable guy with a big arm who consistently puts up huge numbers and great stat lines... He is sorta a combination of Christian Ponder and Sam Bradford... So many of you here called Bradford a check down Charlie and discounted his stats, yet are enamored with Kirks numbers line.

What he doesnt have is the heart and killer instinct of a Brett Farve type...

Top level QBs dont let things get in their head and under their skin... Frail psyche's fold in big games, when everyone is looking for them to be the man and carry the team to a victory...

Honestly I still hope to be proven wrong! BUT the signs are all there and this past year did NOTHING to dispel the already problematic trends.

Another game next year like home against Buffalo and then the complete inability to win when in the spotlight, prime time or Monday night and do any of you serious think all we have to do is get in the play offs with Kirk and we have a shot?

Dont forget how long some of you stuck behind Ponder BTW unable to even admit to the negatives...

YOU VIKE THIS!



Serious question.... do you have a Word doc or something you quickly cut/paste into a post then adjust the verbiage for your incessant Cousins criticisms? Maybe categorized by type of whine?

Or do you create each post from scratch? Because if it's from scratch that is a hell of a lot of typing. All told, what, 35 pages? 50?

Wow, so glad you can appreciate my total ad lib "incessant Cousins criticisms" Its actually pretty easy with all the media pieces and what Kirk gives us...

Honestly I thought after first two games I was going to be pleasantly WRONG and shut up about all, even admit my blurred visions based on his past... But know what... Didnt happen... BUFFALO game happened... and then it just kept coming, even in wins... Culminating in the shit fest that was beat Chicago to get in play offs... F' me! really? Thielen losing his mind was about pinnacle of how even his most significant team mates were at odds with Kirk's play...

Is it going to all just get better for 2019... I myself sure as hell hope so! I hate seeing Vikings teams with talent go up in flames year after year! Like all those years wasting the great talent that was Randy Moss and lesser extent AP... I will gladly eat every crow served up to me as soon a Quirk Cousins starts to play at a level that epitomizes his talents and legitimizes the cap dollars pushed into the middle of the table on his contract... The first fully guaranteed contract ever written in the NFL...

Till that time comes though I will continue to bemoan the troubling nature of the beast that is Kirk Cousins and view it all as just another blunder my beloved Vikings made in a never ending effort to not be able to get out of their own way in a path to winning it all...

One thing that's a serious consideration, If year 2019 flames out like 2018 there will again likely be some huge coaching changes and possible GM scrutiny that will again leave Kirk's final year even more in flux with philosophy on offense plans run...

In the end Kirk may be looking at 3 years in Minnesota where he never had any continuity at OL, OC and play calling... Giving him the perfect alibi for his next suitors to look at his gaudy numbers and figure that in their system Kirk could be the man...

Lets see Kirk be the man in 2019... You all would love to see me shut up about this... Show me the money Quirk... Be the guy, the team leader who you were paid to be... and maybe everyone will rest easier at night!
Post #: 3171
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/16/2019 1:16:48 PM   
jbusse

 

Posts: 997
Joined: 9/11/2013
From: Atlanta, GA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Without that 12th man penalty that INT doesn't happen. ~50 FG (or less with a run play that gets anything) and we were off to the SB that year...we would have overcome all that BS dirty play, all the missed calls, all the TO's. THAT ONE ****ING PENALTY will be my most hated Vikings screw up.

Especially since 12th man penalties on the offense almost never happen.

For me it's Robert Smith going out of bounds three times during that one important drive against the Falcons. What makes it all the more maddening is that Smith is intelligent and should have known better.


I've argued this one before and while I've moved from 100% clearing him of any wrong doing...a little, people have ignored the account of that drive...his going OOB's, at least a couple of them, were natural runs...gaining first downs that didn't *hurt in any way that should have cost us...not like the damn missed FG anyway. There were not dumb runs that should infuriate the way they do.

*like forcing his way from going OOB's and fumbling would have anyway

It's a semi-regular debate, and I consider it progress that you've moved in this direction.

There is some subjectivity in how much fault one attributes to Smith. My opinion is that he could have made a more concerted effort to stay in bounds given the enormity of the situation and considering that running out the clock or running down the clock would have been as/more valuable than a score.

Thanks to youtube, you can use your own judgement.

The benchmark for amount of clock time burned on an inbounds run:

At 5:14, Leroy Hoard is tackled inbounds, and the ball is snapped on the next play at 4:39 ==> 0:35 of clock usage.

Smith's three runs out of bounds:
1. At 5:59, Smith runs out of bounds on 1st and 10 after a 9-yard gain, making a token effort to stay inbounds. Clock is wound after the ball is set for the next play. 0:15 off the clock instead of 0:35 ==> foregone 0:20.
2. At 5:37, Smith runs out of bounds on 2nd and 1 after a 16-yard run, making no effort to stay inbounds. Clock is wound after the ball is set for the next play. 0:20 off the clock instead of 0:35 ==> foregone 0:15.
3. At 4:32, Smith runs out of bounds on 2nd and 5 after an 8-yard run. He could have easily gone down inbounds with the first down. Clock stops at 4:32, and it does not start until the next snap ==> foregone 0:35.

Total foregone time: 1:10

The amount of time left on the clock would have affected how the game was called thereafter. There is a greater possibility that the Vikings would have run on the 3rd and 6 at 2:18 if there were less time left, and the Falcons would have used their timeouts differently.
Post #: 3172
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/16/2019 2:38:28 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

Posts: 15991
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: online
http://vikingsterritory.com/2019/uncategorized/dr-david-chao-nick-easton-should-be-100-healthy-for-2019-season

_____________________________

"You're betraying your whole life if you don't say what you think--and you don't say it honestly and bluntly." --Charles Krauthammer
Post #: 3173
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/16/2019 4:11:09 PM   
Tom Sykes


Posts: 3056
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

http://vikingsterritory.com/2019/uncategorized/dr-david-chao-nick-easton-should-be-100-healthy-for-2019-season

To paraphrase World War Z ...

"How we do we know they're coming?"

"They're coming."

(Zombies, aka Reiff Easton Elflein Remmers O'Neill)
Post #: 3174
RE: General Vikes Talk - 2/16/2019 4:34:59 PM   
Todd M

 

Posts: 35915
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

http://vikingsterritory.com/2019/uncategorized/dr-david-chao-nick-easton-should-be-100-healthy-for-2019-season

To paraphrase World War Z ...

"How we do we know they're coming?"

"They're coming."

(Zombies, aka Reiff Easton Elflein Remmers O'Neill)


Wine and dine and do what we do and settle one piece in FA...why shouldn't we believe in their ability to do that? If there is one thing the Wilf's and Spielman have done is seek out and land some sweet pieces. So we do that and Spiels can get a feel for the draft and know if he can trade down and still get a nice OL with our 1st pick. That's a lot of fixing with many many stabs at other guys that are available/shake loose.
Post #: 3175
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