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RE: General Vikes Talk

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/2/2019 10:51:19 AM   
Guest
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: kurt bilben

quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

Marty stopped being mildly entertaining and turned into that other idiot.



Can one allow themselves to be an idiot?

LOL

I guess if they can allow themselves to be injured the sky is the limit.




Polka
Polka
Polka
  Post #: 4901
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/2/2019 5:27:52 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline 		This also means he's a favorite to be a third or fourth receiver.

https://www.dailynorseman.com/2019/6/2/18649699/chad-beebe-reportedly-early-favorite-minnesota-vikings-punt-return-job

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We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?
Post #: 4902
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/2/2019 5:31:12 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline 		Take this with a grain of salt. They are not practicing with pads, yet.

https://thevikingage.com/2019/06/02/conklin-impressive-minnesota-vikings-otas

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?
Post #: 4903
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/2/2019 5:31:26 PM   
marty


Posts: 12689
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline 		My point stands.

Kirk doesn't put up early points against quality opposition. Unless someone can come up with 1st half stats that show the offense with Kirk is coming through against quality opposition, Kirk is the main reason for the decline of the defense and run game.

The onus is on anyone that thinks that point is wrong, to show it statistically with 1st half statistics. I am not experienced with finding these sorts of statistics, but I can see a bunch of crap when you try to make a point, using full game statistics, which don't really tell the story.

As David said, "Winning teams are able to run the ball. Running teams don't win."

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SKOL to the BOWL !!!
Post #: 4904
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/2/2019 5:34:50 PM   
marty


Posts: 12689
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline 		I suppose there are full game stats that also back QBs like Jay Cutler or Tony Romo.

They got padded statistics from other teams letting them come back a little bit, garbage points and yardage, but when the game was on the line against quality opposition, they were usually on the losing end.

I hope that isn't the case with Cousins, but up until now, it's mostly the case.

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Post #: 4905
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/2/2019 8:04:42 PM   
Pager


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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

My point stands.

Kirk doesn't put up early points against quality opposition. Unless someone can come up with 1st half stats that show the offense with Kirk is coming through against quality opposition, Kirk is the main reason for the decline of the defense and run game.

The onus is on anyone that thinks that point is wrong, to show it statistically with 1st half statistics. I am not experienced with finding these sorts of statistics, but I can see a bunch of crap when you try to make a point, using full game statistics, which don't really tell the story.

As David said, "Winning teams are able to run the ball. Running teams don't win."



Ironic since the defense improved over the course of the year while Cousins production decreased.

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Left picking up the pieces.
Post #: 4906
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/2/2019 8:14:41 PM   
David F.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Running teams don't win.

Simply not true. Sea is proof of that. Fixed their oline and got back to what they did appearing in back to back SB's. Fell short this year but did make the playoffs when they were not expected to do much.


In the consecutive seasons in which Seattle went to the Super Bowl Russel Wilson ran for 539 yards and 849 yards. Granted they are one of the more run-focused teams in the league. I just don't think they can be used as an example to disprove 'running teams don't win'. Running QBs don't last. Even if we do agree that they proved that running teams can win I still wouldn't want to use the one outlier as an example to model my team after. I'd rather use the strategy that works all the other times rather than the one that worked once (with a QB running for 849 yards).

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Post #: 4907
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/2/2019 9:19:28 PM   
Jason Dorn

 

Posts: 6282
Joined: 7/31/2007
From: Minnesota-born and raised
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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

My point stands.

Kirk doesn't put up early points against quality opposition. Unless someone can come up with 1st half stats that show the offense with Kirk is coming through against quality opposition, Kirk is the main reason for the decline of the defense and run game.

The onus is on anyone that thinks that point is wrong, to show it statistically with 1st half statistics. I am not experienced with finding these sorts of statistics, but I can see a bunch of crap when you try to make a point, using full game statistics, which don't really tell the story.

As David said, "Winning teams are able to run the ball. Running teams don't win."



Whatever. You stated third down conversion rate. Now it is not enough points by the QB leading to the decline in production of the defense and run game. Provide your own stats - its simple 4 first halves in losses the Vikings were shut out, BUFF,CHI,SEA,CHI. You just do not get what team sports are. You are in a band right? Is it all about you or does the entire band need to click to get it right?

Cripes how hard is it. You make it all about one player in the ultimate team sport. Synergy and timing are critical. Discipline with route running, blocking assignments, coverage responsibility, gap integrity, and avoiding penalties are paramount to winning football. Playcalling, game planning and avoiding while creating turnovers are vital. How about kicking FGs. Do any of the QBs or defenses do that- this is not a critical factor to winning?

Yet you make it about one player. Yes the QB is important but not as critical as all facets to winning the SB- but it sure helps having that HOFer. Kirk still has time to write history and has a defense, RB and receivers. Its about the OL needing improvement. If they provide protection plus a run game and Kirk still has his struggles it is back to the drawing board.

Brees missed the playoffs three years in a row prior to the last 2 years - why they had a the 27th, 31st, 31st defense. Where was Rodgers last year. Wilson missed the playoffs a couple years ago. Did the legion of Doom hurt him? Did Denver's defense hurt Manning who had Osweiler start a few games? Did Brady factor huge last year in the SB? Was Kapernick amazing- he is out of the game. Flacco was traded.

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Post #: 4908
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/2/2019 9:22:01 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 76827
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline 		You're banging your head against a wall, Jason.

We have a couple people here that just can't be reasoned with. It'll save your sanity if you just don't try.
Post #: 4909
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/2/2019 9:36:33 PM   
thebigo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

My point stands.

Kirk doesn't put up early points against quality opposition. Unless someone can come up with 1st half stats that show the offense with Kirk is coming through against quality opposition, Kirk is the main reason for the decline of the defense and run game.

The onus is on anyone that thinks that point is wrong, to show it statistically with 1st half statistics. I am not experienced with finding these sorts of statistics, but I can see a bunch of crap when you try to make a point, using full game statistics, which don't really tell the story.

As David said, "Winning teams are able to run the ball. Running teams don't win."


Bats fly out of my butt. The onus is on anyone that thinks that point is wrong, to show it statistically.

The logical equivalent of your post.
Post #: 4910
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/2/2019 11:10:11 PM   
marty


Posts: 12689
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline 		Yes, bats flying out of your butt and Cousins not performing well early on in games, or at crunchtime against good teams, sounds very equivalent

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Post #: 4911
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/2/2019 11:14:59 PM   
marty


Posts: 12689
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline 		Seattle is not a good example, as Wilson made most of those runs out of a passing formation.

You need all members of a band to make it click, the leader, the QB is the most important part in making it click. If the bandleader is doing poorly, the band probably isn't clicking.

The QBs you listed, most of them have won SBs, Cousins hasn't won a playoff game.

< Message edited by marty -- 6/3/2019 2:27:18 AM >

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Post #: 4912
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/3/2019 12:03:44 AM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 33621
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

I suppose there are full game stats that also back QBs like Jay Cutler or Tony Romo.

They got padded statistics from other teams letting them come back a little bit, garbage points and yardage, but when the game was on the line against quality opposition, they were usually on the losing end.

I hope that isn't the case with Cousins, but up until now, it's mostly the case.

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You said nothing. You have no cohesive argument whatsoever.

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So let it be done."
Post #: 4913
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/3/2019 12:34:47 AM   
thebigo


Posts: 28251
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline 		Marty is definitely stepping up his game.
Post #: 4914
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/3/2019 2:26:23 AM   
marty


Posts: 12689
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline 		About as cohesive as it gets.

Some QBs are clutch, most are not.

I hope Cousins can be, once he has a strong enough supporting cast.

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Post #: 4915
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/3/2019 2:30:48 AM   
marty


Posts: 12689
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline 		Thebigo, I think most people know I am right on this, but hope I am not.

And I also fit into the category of hoping I am wrong on this. I would love to see Cousins "Do you like that ?", all the way to a SB victory.

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Post #: 4916
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/3/2019 6:46:11 AM   
Jason Dorn

 

Posts: 6282
Joined: 7/31/2007
From: Minnesota-born and raised
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Seattle is not a good example, as Wilson made most of those runs out of a passing formation.

You need all members of a band to make it click, the leader, the QB is the most important part in making it click. If the bandleader is doing poorly, the band probably isn't clicking.

The QBs you listed, most of them have won SBs, Cousins hasn't won a playoff game.



Yeah but I stated the percussionist (OL) could not find the right beat. Cousins has to prove plenty never stated differently. Again you keep ducking the argument about third down conversion and try to paint Cousins into some anchor bringing the entire team down.

Funny the Eagles barely made the playoffs and their run game declined- funny the Vikings declined more and they did miss them. Funny how many SB participants over the last five years are a top ten rushing team.

Funny how combining a good run game with great defense seems to work.

Then again the defense was not clutch against the Rams. Gave up 23 to the Saints at home. The Bears scored 24 in Minnesota and NE they gave up back to back TDs after the offense had tied it at 10. Carlson missed 3 FGs in GB makes one of those most notable the 35 yarder the Vikes get into the post season.

Let's see how the adversity impacts the team. Do they become stronger or does it fall apart. Maybe that is where Cousins needs to do his best work - providing leadership. Plenty of fans and media doubt him. This fan hopes that fuels him and his teammates rally around him.

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Post #: 4917
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/3/2019 10:26:46 AM   
marty


Posts: 12689
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline 		Jason, the part I like, is I think Cousins has the physical tools and skills to do it, and maybe as you say, if the parts around him start working, everything will fall into place.

You're only as good as your drummer.

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Post #: 4918
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/3/2019 10:43:44 AM   
thebigo


Posts: 28251
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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Thebigo, I think most people know I am right on this, but hope I am not.

And I also fit into the category of hoping I am wrong on this. I would love to see Cousins "Do you like that ?", all the way to a SB victory.


If by "most people" you mean "nobody", you are spot on.
Post #: 4919
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/3/2019 10:56:24 AM   
Bruce Johnson

 

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline 		Nice catch by a (now) Viking.

https://sportsnaut.com/2018/09/watch-bearkats-davion-davis-makes-impossible-one-handed-catch/

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?
Post #: 4920
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/3/2019 2:28:25 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline 		The Vikings have never had a QB start all 16 games in two straight years.

(Nick Olson on Twitter)

Hard to believe.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?
Post #: 4921
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/3/2019 2:42:01 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline 		Would you like more competition at the running back position?

https://fansided.com/2019/06/03/nfl-rumors-duke-johnson-trade-jaguars-vikings-cowboys/

Would you like more competition at the OT position?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiKQc-TKSUo#action=share

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?
Post #: 4922
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/3/2019 2:45:01 PM   
David Levine


Posts: 76827
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

The Vikings have never had a QB start all 16 games in two straight years.

(Nick Olson on Twitter)

Hard to believe.


Not that hard for me. We really haven't had much for "franchise QBs" over our history. And Tark played in 14 game season.
Post #: 4923
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/3/2019 3:15:20 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

The Vikings have never had a QB start all 16 games in two straight years.

(Nick Olson on Twitter)

Hard to believe.


Not that hard for me. We really haven't had much for "franchise QBs" over our history. And Tark played in 14 game season.


That's 41 seasons since the NFL went to 16 games! During that span, the Vikings have not made it to the Super Bowl. Probably not a coincidence.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?
Post #: 4924
RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/3/2019 3:19:46 PM   
Jeff Jesser


Posts: 19069
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: offline 		If we are trying to reason this via musical references as you guys have been doing, I'll add my small part about last years offense:

QB - 80's Hair Bands
WR - 90's Grunge
RB - 70's Disco
TE - Slow Opera
Oline - Baby Shark

that's about as simple as I can make it.
Post #: 4925
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