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RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/11/2018 3:56:16 PM   
jbusse

 

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I haven't heard a peep out of Spielman lately. It would be interesting to hear his take on the team's struggles.
Post #: 626
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/11/2018 3:59:18 PM   
stfrank

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

I haven't heard a peep out of Spielman lately. It would be interesting to hear his take on the team's struggles.

He's probably busy scheming a way to stock up on 5th round draft picks to help rebuild the O-line. LOL
Post #: 627
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/11/2018 4:31:24 PM   
David Levine


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Why the Zimmer-DeFilippo Marriage Was Never Going to Work in Minnesota

It was just a bad marriage, and as is so often the case, it was no one’s fault, really. Mike Zimmer, a defensive-minded head coach, wanted to run the ball. His new offensive coordinator, John DeFilippo, a young and innovative aerial designer, wanted to throw it. This appeared to create at least a subtle tension early in the season, which grew and became public as losses piled up.
DeFilippo’s reasoning for a pass-heavy approach made sense. Minnesota’s weak interior O-line struggles to get movement on the ground. Instead of ramming it inside, why not feature quicker throws underneath and to the perimeter, where star receivers Adam Thielen and Stefon Diggs, and even tailback Dalvin Cook, thrive?

The problem is Zimmer’s desires also made sense. Last season the Vikings ran the ball 31.3 times a game, second-most in the league only to Jacksonville. They weren’t particularly good at running—with a middling O-line and unimaginative Latavius Murray they averaged 3.9 yards per attempt, 23rd in the league—but to a coach like Zimmer, that’s not necessarily the point. It’s about controlling the game’s flow.
Still, in today’s NFL, your running game is only as effective as the passing game you build off it. A complaint you could issue about DeFilippo is that not enough of the Vikings’ aerial concepts derived from their ground concepts, especially given how quarterback Kirk Cousins thrived with run-and-pass integration in Washington. DeFilippo’s counter-argument, if he could issue one unfiltered, would be something along the lines of, I’m one of football’s more innovative route combination designers, this team spent a ton of money on a starting quarterback and has two superstar receivers. Let’s feature THAT first and foremost.

Replacing DeFilippo is Kevin Stefanski, which is where this gets interesting. The 36-year-old quarterbacks coach had a chance to follow Pat Shurmur to New York and become the Giants’ offensive coordinator, but Zimmer wouldn’t let Stefanski out of his contract. Stefanski has never called plays, but he has worked with quarterbacks, tight ends and running backs under multiple Vikings coaching staffs. More importantly, it is believed by some around the NFL that Stefanski, not Shurmur, was behind many of the details of Minnesota’s passing game last year. That passing game saw more explosive plays from Diggs and Thielen than the Vikings have generated this season. Zimmer might love running the ball, but it’s still a refined passing game that will make Minnesota’s offense go. Stefanski is tasked with building one in a more balanced offense.

A strong late-season run by Minnesota could catapult Stefanski into the growing pantheon of young offensive gurus in the league today. That’s a pantheon DeFilippo, a trendy head-coaching candidate prior to 2018, was part of early this season. The now-unemployed 40-year-old can still remain there, but his next job must be for a head coach with similar core beliefs.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/12/11/john-defilippo-firing-offensive-coordinator-mike-zimmer-minnesota-vikings
Post #: 628
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/11/2018 4:34:16 PM   
stfrank

 

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"This wasn't about one guy. It was a bunch of us not holding up our end of the bargain," said Zimmer, who added he would be more involved in the offense.

So Stefanski will just be a different guy calling the same plays.

Oh boy. I can hardly wait for Sunday.
Post #: 629
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/11/2018 4:38:38 PM   
CPAMAN

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

I think that will be the last OC Zimm forces out.

Zimm himself is now on the clock.


I think that Zimmer should be fired after the season along with RS. This team is going nowhere under this leadership.

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/11/2018 4:41:03 PM   
CPAMAN

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Neussendorfer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Mike Pereira @MikePereira

Lots of talk about the Wagner block. The wording in the rule book is NEW this year and is clear. The new wording states, "May not place a hand or hands on a teammate or opponent in an attempt to jump through a gap to block an opponent's kick or apparent kick." Case closed. Foul.


Would of like to have seen how this would of played out if it was called right

... and no one will ever know no matter how pissed off and negative you want to be about it

-- speaking of negative; freekin' game brought out the best in me I know that


Instead of a 47 yard FG attempt down by 6, we'd have a 1st down on the 15.

And while I hate the play the "blame the refs" game, the fact that they actually threw the flag on a clearly blatant penalty AND THEN PICKED IT UP is beyond outrageous.


Yeah this one isn't on Priefer. It's calls like this that give plenty of credence to the sway theory.


And one of the idiots calling the game said that the block was because we "ran the play too slowly".

The announce team last night was insufferable.

The whole NFL product is beyond poor imo. Between stupid rules terrible announcers etc it's no longer a spectacle. I wonder what ratings would be if fantasy football wasnt so popular? I used to love NFL even if my team sucked. I can't honestly say that anymore.



I hope this thread doesn't get lost in the news of Flipo. The NFL product is one hell of a case study in pandering to the base of lowest common denominator fans. I watch the CBS or FOX pregame shows from time to time and it's all a bunch of grown men acting like dumb little kids. Then it goes to announcers that are either dull robots (Aikman and Buck) or more clowns (Collinsworth and especially Gruden when he was in the booth).

Meanwhile, if you use the internet to follow the NFL you get smart analysis and brilliant breakdown in no-nonsense formats. In my opinion this is the type of NFL product the smart fan wants. NFL disregards the smart fan and panders to Joe Dumb Dumb with the wacky antics and the God Bless America schtick. Jokes on the NFL - Joe Dumb Dumb is going to tune in regardless of whether or not Terry Bradshaw yucks it up with Jimmy Johnson or not.


David,

It is the same way with ML baseball fans. We call them all sheople. It is really quite sad the level that the professional franchises have to talk down to in order to sell their product.

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Post #: 631
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/11/2018 4:47:52 PM   
CPAMAN

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Had Allen enforced the rule, the Vikings would have received a first down at the Seahawks' 14-yard line with 5 minutes, 38 seconds remaining. Instead, the Seahawks gained possession at their 37-yard line and drove for a game-clinching touchdown.Had Allen enforced the rule, the Vikings would have received a first down at the Seahawks' 14-yard line with 5 minutes, 38 seconds remaining. Instead, the Seahawks gained possession at their 37-yard line and drove for a game-clinching touchdown.



http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25504971/referees-pick-flag-seattle-seahawks-apparent-illegal-block


We will get an apology letter later in week from NFL, nothing more... No public disclosure, likely no reprocussions to the refs other than they just lost their grades to make PO positions on ref teams


While the Seattle player lightly touched the backs of one or tow other players, he did not propel himself or gain leverage in doing so. Maybe it should be called a penalty, but it does not appear that he did so in order to lift himself off the ground.

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Post #: 632
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/11/2018 4:49:38 PM   
CPAMAN

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

quote:

ORIGINAL: kevinemmer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Well outside of a trade Cousins isn't going anywhere but dang he's playing poor.

Should have been gone two years ago: Mike Priefer, Kyle Rudolph, and Laquon Treadwell.

Should be gone by next season: Compton, Elflein, Remmers

Pick one and toss the other: Zimmer, Flip

AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STOP DRAFTING CBs in rounds one and two when our Oline can't block the Golden Girls.


Agreed.

I would toss Zimmer right now and give Flip a shot at the last 3 games.

But Flip's lack of creativity in short yardage (motions, picks, exploiting edges while faking up the middle) have me extremely concerned about him as well.

I'm putting lack of creativity on Zim. He said a couple of weeks ago he wanted simple.


The Vikings cannot do simple because the O-line cannot block. They literally get pushed backwards on nearly half of the plays from scrimmage.

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Post #: 633
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/11/2018 4:49:50 PM   
bohumm

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Had Allen enforced the rule, the Vikings would have received a first down at the Seahawks' 14-yard line with 5 minutes, 38 seconds remaining. Instead, the Seahawks gained possession at their 37-yard line and drove for a game-clinching touchdown.Had Allen enforced the rule, the Vikings would have received a first down at the Seahawks' 14-yard line with 5 minutes, 38 seconds remaining. Instead, the Seahawks gained possession at their 37-yard line and drove for a game-clinching touchdown.



http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25504971/referees-pick-flag-seattle-seahawks-apparent-illegal-block


We will get an apology letter later in week from NFL, nothing more... No public disclosure, likely no reprocussions to the refs other than they just lost their grades to make PO positions on ref teams


While the Seattle player lightly touched the backs of one or tow other players, he did not propel himself or gain leverage in doing so. Maybe it should be called a penalty, but it does not appear that he did so in order to lift himself off the ground.

Can't let go, can you Trump?
Post #: 634
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/11/2018 5:02:32 PM   
CPAMAN

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

I still contend that signing Kirk and adding Flipp behind an OL that was criminally neglected was tantamount to our failures...

Its perfectly comparable to Viking history... Think of Herschel Walker signing... a great player in his own right, but plugged into the wrong system and incorrectly used by and OC that couldnt adapt schemes to correctly get results from the sum of all parts...

Been there, did that, and it didnt end well either...


And this is on RS. He should be fired after this season.

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Post #: 635
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/11/2018 5:09:01 PM   
CPAMAN

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
they showed a graphic during the game where zimmer had never won a game while running the ball under 20 times...excluding three runs by cousins, we only ran the ball 18 times last night....


Tough to run 20 times or more when you keep getting three and outs.

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Post #: 636
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/11/2018 5:16:06 PM   
CPAMAN

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

I haven't heard a peep out of Spielman lately. It would be interesting to hear his take on the team's struggles.


My guess is that he has already been informed by the Wilfs' he is gone after this season.

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Post #: 637
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/11/2018 5:27:00 PM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Had Allen enforced the rule, the Vikings would have received a first down at the Seahawks' 14-yard line with 5 minutes, 38 seconds remaining. Instead, the Seahawks gained possession at their 37-yard line and drove for a game-clinching touchdown.Had Allen enforced the rule, the Vikings would have received a first down at the Seahawks' 14-yard line with 5 minutes, 38 seconds remaining. Instead, the Seahawks gained possession at their 37-yard line and drove for a game-clinching touchdown.



http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25504971/referees-pick-flag-seattle-seahawks-apparent-illegal-block


We will get an apology letter later in week from NFL, nothing more... No public disclosure, likely no reprocussions to the refs other than they just lost their grades to make PO positions on ref teams


While the Seattle player lightly touched the backs of one or tow other players, he did not propel himself or gain leverage in doing so. Maybe it should be called a penalty, but it does not appear that he did so in order to lift himself off the ground.


Still trying to convince yourself of that, huh?

Post #: 638
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/11/2018 5:29:59 PM   
David Levine


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No...He's not using both hands to leapfrog over his teammates....I don't see how anyone could get that idea...

Post #: 639
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/11/2018 5:36:06 PM   
Todd M

 

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I feel we can bounce off of this and get these last 3 W's.

I think Thielen's outburst was the nail in Flip's coffin and I thank him for it.

Now we just need to rally as a team and play smart and clean with purpose.
Post #: 640
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/11/2018 5:36:55 PM   
Todd M

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

No...He's not using both hands to leapfrog over his teammates....I don't see how anyone could get that idea...




Wow CPA embarrass yourself much?

< Message edited by Todd M -- 12/11/2018 5:46:32 PM >
Post #: 641
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/11/2018 5:44:56 PM   
Steve Lentz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

I feel we can bounce off of this and get these last 3 W's.

I think Thielen's outburst was the nail in Flip's coffin and I thank him for it.

Now we just need to rally as a team and play smart and clean with purpose.

I think we can too.
The performance by our defense was top notch. I can't believe Wilson ever had a worse day?

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Post #: 642
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/11/2018 5:46:27 PM   
Steve Lentz


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Everyone SHOULD know by now that a penalty should've been called.
Most knew it last night.

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Post #: 643
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/11/2018 5:48:04 PM   
joejitsu

 

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I don't know if anyone's commented on this, but could some of the offense's issues be down to Sporano's absence this year? The line has done nothing but suck eggs, when it appeared to be on the upswing last year.
Post #: 644
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/11/2018 5:56:16 PM   
David Levine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

Everyone SHOULD know by now that a penalty should've been called.
Most knew it last night.


It would be one thing if they flat out missed the penalty. It would suck, but it happens.

But they threw the damn flag, so they saw it happen.

Picking it up was inexcusable.
Post #: 645
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/11/2018 6:04:57 PM   
The Happy Norseman

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

I think that will be the last OC Zimm forces out.

Zimm himself is now on the clock.


I think that Zimmer should be fired after the season along with RS. This team is going nowhere under this leadership.


One year removed from the NFCCC that's never gonna happen.

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/11/2018 6:06:09 PM   
CPAMAN

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

I feel we can bounce off of this and get these last 3 W's.

I think Thielen's outburst was the nail in Flip's coffin and I thank him for it.

Now we just need to rally as a team and play smart and clean with purpose.


Come on. This is ridiculous talk. The Vikings are more likely to lose their last three games than win all three. I would be surprised if they win more than one of three.

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/11/2018 6:08:12 PM   
The Happy Norseman

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: joejitsu

I don't know if anyone's commented on this, but could some of the offense's issues be down to Sporano's absence this year? The line has done nothing but suck eggs, when it appeared to be on the upswing last year.


Definitely didn't help, but the players we have are a serious downgrade from last year. Reiff is the same, Compton is not only a downgrade from Easton but has no business playing pro football, Elf is much worse than last year, probably due to his injury, Remmers is awful at RG and can't hold Bergers jock, O'Neill is equal to or slightly better than Remmers was last year at RT.

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Post #: 648
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/11/2018 6:09:42 PM   
Todd M

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CPAMAN

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

I feel we can bounce off of this and get these last 3 W's.

I think Thielen's outburst was the nail in Flip's coffin and I thank him for it.

Now we just need to rally as a team and play smart and clean with purpose.


Come on. This is ridiculous talk. The Vikings are more likely to lose their last three games than win all three. I would be surprised if they win more than one of three.


I'm comfortable being 180 from you.

Even if I'm just setting myself up after thinking we could have won the last 2.
Post #: 649
RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/11/2018 6:16:23 PM   
CPAMAN

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

Everyone SHOULD know by now that a penalty should've been called.
Most knew it last night.


It would be one thing if they flat out missed the penalty. It would suck, but it happens.

But they threw the damn flag, so they saw it happen.

Picking it up was inexcusable.


It stop gap motion I see the Seattle player clearly placed his hands on two of the down linemen. I guess there really is no question that a penalty should have been called. I was wrong.

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