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RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/18/2018 6:42:07 PM

Ricky J

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Joined: 7/19/2007
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Vikings 2019 opponents nearly finalized

The Minnesota Vikings are still finishing up the 2018 season with hopes to get into the playoffs once again, but their 2019 slate of games is nearly set with the dust clearing on a few variable heres down the stretch. We will not know the dates and times of these contests for many months, but the Vikings will know what they are up against heading into the offseason with big decisions and adjustments on the way.

Next season obviously sees six of the 16 games on the schedule occupied with a pair of contests against each of their division rivals in the Green Bay Packers, Detroit Lions and Chicago Bears, who they will see each on the home and on the road. In terms of the rotating yearly schedule, 2019 will feature the Vikings taking on the AFC West and NFC East divisions, as well as the second place teams from the NFC West and NFC South.

247sports.com

Post #: 1026

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/18/2018 7:19:11 PM

marty

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Joined: 12/28/2007
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I think they would get more picks and deflections than Wayne's, and you would also see more incompletions. Tracking the ball might be the most important part about playing CB.

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Post #: 1027

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/18/2018 7:21:05 PM

marty

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Joined: 12/28/2007
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Pat Shurmur's first TD in 2017: Hurry up offense, trips right, play action boot, RG pulls, flood concept, Diggs wide open for the TD
Kevin Stefanski's first TD in 2018: Hurry up offense, trips right, play action boot, RG pulls, flood concept, Diggs wide open for the TD

Was it exactly the same for Defillipo as well ?

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Post #: 1028

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/18/2018 7:25:19 PM

marty

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Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: online

Defillipo's was a 22 yard TD, also to Diggs.

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Post #: 1029

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/18/2018 7:46:55 PM

Bruce Johnson

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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I'll call Rhodes better, but not WAY better. PFF underrates him, but first team All-Pro was a bit generous IMO. Rhodes and Waynes are both cover corners who are good at coverage, challenging the run, breaking up passes and a little weak at intercepting the ball.

I think Waynes gets beat more often, but has enough speed to compensate most times. He still isn't great at locating the ball.

Mostly I don't think Waynes prevents throws like Rhodes does. And Rhodes is much more often tasked with defending the opponent's best WR.

I think he's significantly better. He's a legit #1 CB that many had as the best CB in the league last year. Waynes is a solid #2 CB.

Waynes has emerged as a solid tackler. I do believe he is an asset to the defense.

Of course he's an asset. He's a good player.

But where are you getting the money to sign him from?

Is having two really expensive CBs PLUS starting quality depth behind them more important than having a serviceable O-Line?

How about more important than a modern TE? Or a viable 3rd WR?

How about more important than having only Kendricks as a proven LBer (almost no way we can resign Waynes and Barr)?

Because you need three quality corner starters and it's not unusual for one of them to be down, so quality depth is a must in a passers league.

That doesn't address the queston at all though. What positions are you stealing from to overload on CB?

For example, Rhodes, Alexander, Hughes and Hill are all better CBs compared to ANYTHING we have at Guard.

Is Waynes more important to you than Barr? Richardson? Because you can likely only keep one of those 3.

Is 5 solid CBs better than no solid OGs?

Guard is the easiest position to fill. They can do it by either free agency or the draft. I would like to see both. Looks like we will have higher draft pick selections this coming year, too, and don't forget we get Easton back from injury.

< Message edited by Bruce Johnson -- 12/18/2018 7:51:02 PM >

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Post #: 1030

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/18/2018 7:51:26 PM

David Levine

Posts: 76802
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I'll call Rhodes better, but not WAY better. PFF underrates him, but first team All-Pro was a bit generous IMO. Rhodes and Waynes are both cover corners who are good at coverage, challenging the run, breaking up passes and a little weak at intercepting the ball.

I think Waynes gets beat more often, but has enough speed to compensate most times. He still isn't great at locating the ball.

Mostly I don't think Waynes prevents throws like Rhodes does. And Rhodes is much more often tasked with defending the opponent's best WR.

I think he's significantly better. He's a legit #1 CB that many had as the best CB in the league last year. Waynes is a solid #2 CB.

Waynes has emerged as a solid tackler. I do believe he is an asset to the defense.

Of course he's an asset. He's a good player.

But where are you getting the money to sign him from?

Is having two really expensive CBs PLUS starting quality depth behind them more important than having a serviceable O-Line?

How about more important than a modern TE? Or a viable 3rd WR?

How about more important than having only Kendricks as a proven LBer (almost no way we can resign Waynes and Barr)?

Because you need three quality corner starters and it's not unusual for one of them to be down, so quality depth is a must in a passers league.

That doesn't address the queston at all though. What positions are you stealing from to overload on CB?

For example, Rhodes, Alexander, Hughes and Hill are all better CBs compared to ANYTHING we have at Guard.

Is Waynes more important to you than Barr? Richardson? Because you can likely only keep one of those 3.

Is 5 solid CBs better than no solid OGs?

Guard is the easiest position to fill. They can do it by either free agency or the draft. I would like to see both. Looks like we will have higher draft pick selections this year, too.

If its so easy to fill, why haven't we had a good one in years?

And Guards cost money too. Especially good ones.

I'd love to keep all our good players too, but its not a reasonable take. We can't put all our money into depth at a position of strength while we ignore positions of weakness.

And that's just OG. What about 3rd WR? a modern TE? Possibly LBer and/or DT?

< Message edited by David Levine -- 12/18/2018 7:53:03 PM >

Post #: 1031

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/18/2018 8:10:51 PM

The Happy Norseman

Posts: 758
Joined: 12/2/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I'll call Rhodes better, but not WAY better. PFF underrates him, but first team All-Pro was a bit generous IMO. Rhodes and Waynes are both cover corners who are good at coverage, challenging the run, breaking up passes and a little weak at intercepting the ball.

I think Waynes gets beat more often, but has enough speed to compensate most times. He still isn't great at locating the ball.

Mostly I don't think Waynes prevents throws like Rhodes does. And Rhodes is much more often tasked with defending the opponent's best WR.

I think he's significantly better. He's a legit #1 CB that many had as the best CB in the league last year. Waynes is a solid #2 CB.

Waynes has emerged as a solid tackler. I do believe he is an asset to the defense.

Of course he's an asset. He's a good player.

But where are you getting the money to sign him from?

Is having two really expensive CBs PLUS starting quality depth behind them more important than having a serviceable O-Line?

How about more important than a modern TE? Or a viable 3rd WR?

How about more important than having only Kendricks as a proven LBer (almost no way we can resign Waynes and Barr)?

Because you need three quality corner starters and it's not unusual for one of them to be down, so quality depth is a must in a passers league.

That doesn't address the queston at all though. What positions are you stealing from to overload on CB?

For example, Rhodes, Alexander, Hughes and Hill are all better CBs compared to ANYTHING we have at Guard.

Is Waynes more important to you than Barr? Richardson? Because you can likely only keep one of those 3.

Is 5 solid CBs better than no solid OGs?

Guard is the easiest position to fill. They can do it by either free agency or the draft. I would like to see both. Looks like we will have higher draft pick selections this year, too.

If its so easy to fill, why haven't we had a good one in years?

And Guards cost money too. Especially good ones.

I'd love to keep all our good players too, but its not a reasonable take. We can't put all our money into depth at a position of strength while we ignore positions of weakness.

And that's just OG. What about 3rd WR? a modern TE? Possibly LBer and/or DT?

Hopefully Brez can work some magic, but the team is going to have to make some tough choices. At this point, if the choice is between keeping one of our defensive players and upgrading our oline with a quality starter, we have to go with the o-lineman. Spielman and Zimmer need to bite the bullet.

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Post #: 1032

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/18/2018 8:13:28 PM

Ricky J

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Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: online

Barr in the Pro Bowl has to be the dumbest selection of all time. Name me one worse ...

Post #: 1033

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/18/2018 8:13:39 PM

marty

Posts: 12681
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: online

The Vikings might be picking at 32, that is a couple spots lower than last season.

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Post #: 1034

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/18/2018 8:16:38 PM

David Levine

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From: Las Vegas
Status: offline

Right.

Brez is the best, but there is still only so much money to go around.

The way you stay out of "cap hell" is to develop cheaper players to replace more expensive ones, so you aren't playing all your players premium salaries.

Its tough to have to get rid of players that you developed, but with our other needs, and our strong guys behind them, its irresponsible to pay both Waynes and Rhodes.

Post #: 1035

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/18/2018 8:17:31 PM

marty

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Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: online

Waynes is an asset because of his tackling, but a liability because of his poor tracking skills, and liability because he gives lots of cushion and could track the ball better, and liability because he doesn't make more plays on the ball.

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Post #: 1036

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/18/2018 8:17:47 PM

David Levine

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Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Barr in the Pro Bowl has to be the dumbest selection of all time. Name me one worse ...

Did voters only watch the Dolphins game?

This isn't good for us. Right or wrong, his price just went up.

Post #: 1037

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/18/2018 8:18:56 PM

David Levine

Posts: 76802
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Waynes is an asset because of his tackling, but a liability because of his poor tracking skills, and liability because he gives lots of cushion and could track the ball better, and liability because he doesn't make more plays on the ball.

Nah. He's not a liability at all. He's one of the better #2 CBs in the league.

Post #: 1038

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/18/2018 10:06:21 PM

Pager

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Joined: 7/19/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Sam Newton@SamNewton31
@DHunt94_TX through 14 games:

– 66 tackles
– 14.5 sacks
– 20 tackles for loss

Hunter is the first since J.J. Watt and Khalil Mack in 2015 to record at least 65 tackles, 14.0 sacks and 20 tackles for loss in a season. Watt won DPOY that season.

Hunter is a gem. He deserves recognition but it will be hard to overcome what Donald is doing.

Glad we have this guy locked up. He is nothing short of amazing.

And we had some posters that thought it was an overpay....

That's the part that slays me. People saying 7.5 was a down year (ignoring pressures) and that he didn't deserve the money.

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Post #: 1039

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/18/2018 10:07:32 PM

kwheats

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From: NORTHERN MINNESOTA
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https://youtu.be/JOMwAIvFtgE
Check this guy out Realistic Randy, good stuff. After this one check out his podcasts from last week he was spot on and funny!!!

Post #: 1040

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/18/2018 10:19:39 PM

Pager

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Love the debate on CBs!! Too many posts and comments I agree with to rehash them all.

I also think Waynes is underrated. As we've seen from Cook, I don't think we can rely on Hughes recovering from injury at the beginning of the season(nor had he fully arrived). I am stoked about Hill but he hasn't arrived either. Rhodes, to me has been a major disappointment, not the same as last year. But when he was on last year, I'd call him a top 5 cover guy. Not great in run defense but doesn't avoid it (Peters/Ramsey).

If coach and FO is willing to trade Waynes or let him play out his contract (and get a comp pick in return). I'm ok with that. I trust this team completely on CB and DEs.

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Post #: 1041

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/18/2018 10:24:59 PM

Pager

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Good post on Oneil

https://www.dailynorseman.com/2018/12/18/18146655/so-that-brian-oneill-fella-is-pretty-good

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Post #: 1042

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/18/2018 10:29:51 PM

marty

Posts: 12681
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: online

Nah. He's [Waynes] not a liability at all. He's one of the better #2 CBs in the league.

Only because playing #2 CB for the Vikings is one of the easiest jobs in the NFL, having a fierce pass rush, Rhodes on the other side, and a good scheme.

Give Hill or Hughes 8 starts in Wayne's spot, and they will surpass him, make more plays on the ball, smaller cushions, fewer conversions for the opposing team.

Priefer, Waynes and OGs are the weakest spots on the team.

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Post #: 1043

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/18/2018 10:45:52 PM

David Levine

Posts: 76802
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From: Las Vegas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

Love the debate on CBs!! Too many posts and comments I agree with to rehash them all.

I also think Waynes is underrated. As we've seen from Cook, I don't think we can rely on Hughes recovering from injury at the beginning of the season(nor had he fully arrived). I am stoked about Hill but he hasn't arrived either. Rhodes, to me has been a major disappointment, not the same as last year. But when he was on last year, I'd call him a top 5 cover guy. Not great in run defense but doesn't avoid it (Peters/Ramsey).

If coach and FO is willing to trade Waynes or let him play out his contract (and get a comp pick in return). I'm ok with that. I trust this team completely on CB and DEs.

Can we afford to pay him 9M next year?

Post #: 1044

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/18/2018 11:42:11 PM

Daniel Lee Young

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Nine mill would be out of line, IMO.. they will more than likely try to restructure any number of those contracts on the defensive side to get some room to address the offensive line..

Everyone, even the rubes in idiot chat know that we are only as good as our line play allows our offensive skill players to be.

When we can do to the bears rams or saints what we do to the fins or lions of the league, then we will be taken seriously.

Hard to balance a team.. takes exemplary players and a team of coaches that all mesh..

We are close..

Defilipo was a great “fire”....

He sucked.

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Post #: 1045

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/19/2018 12:59:43 AM

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9316
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I'll call Rhodes better, but not WAY better. PFF underrates him, but first team All-Pro was a bit generous IMO. Rhodes and Waynes are both cover corners who are good at coverage, challenging the run, breaking up passes and a little weak at intercepting the ball.

I think Waynes gets beat more often, but has enough speed to compensate most times. He still isn't great at locating the ball.

Mostly I don't think Waynes prevents throws like Rhodes does. And Rhodes is much more often tasked with defending the opponent's best WR.

I think he's significantly better. He's a legit #1 CB that many had as the best CB in the league last year. Waynes is a solid #2 CB.

Waynes has emerged as a solid tackler. I do believe he is an asset to the defense.

Of course he's an asset. He's a good player.

But where are you getting the money to sign him from?

Is having two really expensive CBs PLUS starting quality depth behind them more important than having a serviceable O-Line?

How about more important than a modern TE? Or a viable 3rd WR?

How about more important than having only Kendricks as a proven LBer (almost no way we can resign Waynes and Barr)?

Because you need three quality corner starters and it's not unusual for one of them to be down, so quality depth is a must in a passers league.

That doesn't address the queston at all though. What positions are you stealing from to overload on CB?

For example, Rhodes, Alexander, Hughes and Hill are all better CBs compared to ANYTHING we have at Guard.

Is Waynes more important to you than Barr? Richardson? Because you can likely only keep one of those 3.

Is 5 solid CBs better than no solid OGs?

Guard is the easiest position to fill. They can do it by either free agency or the draft. I would like to see both. Looks like we will have higher draft pick selections this coming year, too, and don't forget we get Easton back from injury.

easton is a free agent in 2019....

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Post #: 1046

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/19/2018 9:00:03 AM

CPAMAN

Posts: 36324
Joined: 3/17/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Barr in the Pro Bowl has to be the dumbest selection of all time. Name me one worse ...

Did voters only watch the Dolphins game?

This isn't good for us. Right or wrong, his price just went up.

And he is not worth keeping.

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Post #: 1047

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/19/2018 9:36:47 AM

TJSweens

Posts: 44310
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Barr in the Pro Bowl has to be the dumbest selection of all time. Name me one worse ...

Did voters only watch the Dolphins game?

This isn't good for us. Right or wrong, his price just went up.

I was absolutely stunned when I saw that announcement. Outside of the last 2 weeks, Barr has been a colossal disappointment this year.

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Post #: 1048

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/19/2018 10:22:26 AM

Pager

Posts: 10500
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

Love the debate on CBs!! Too many posts and comments I agree with to rehash them all.

I also think Waynes is underrated. As we've seen from Cook, I don't think we can rely on Hughes recovering from injury at the beginning of the season(nor had he fully arrived). I am stoked about Hill but he hasn't arrived either. Rhodes, to me has been a major disappointment, not the same as last year. But when he was on last year, I'd call him a top 5 cover guy. Not great in run defense but doesn't avoid it (Peters/Ramsey).

If coach and FO is willing to trade Waynes or let him play out his contract (and get a comp pick in return). I'm ok with that. I trust this team completely on CB and DEs.

Can we afford to pay him 9M next year?

I assume his contract (option picked up) is already built into salary cap projections. It's like anything. If we are paying 4M for a back up RB, 5.5 for a oft injured Safety, or 11M for a declining DE, 8M for a TE, then no we probably can't afford 9M for our 2nd corner. I've seen projections with a few cuts and restructures we are at 30M in space. My number 1 resign priority is Richardson. Then I don't think we need to do anything else defensively (Barr and Sendejo can walk). Oline, TE, 3rd WR are my offensive goals. Some of this can be addressed in the draft.

Do I expect Rhodes to be closer to 2017 than 2018 in 2019. But imagine a perfect storm. Rhodes plays closer to 2018 than 2017. Hughes isn't healthy. Hill and Mac play inconsistent. Are we going to be ok without Waynes?

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Post #: 1049

RE: General Vikes Talk - 12/19/2018 10:34:48 AM

kevinemmer

Posts: 4650
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Bozeman, MT
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Barr in the Pro Bowl has to be the dumbest selection of all time. Name me one worse ...

Did voters only watch the Dolphins game?

This isn't good for us. Right or wrong, his price just went up.

I was absolutely stunned when I saw that announcement. Outside of the last 2 weeks, Barr has been a colossal disappointment this year.

Yes.

How can this happen?

Mis-managed?

He was Zim's 1st Pick (I think), it makes no sense.

His most used descriptive this year was "ghost", and it was accurate.

Post #: 1050