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RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/24/2020 4:31:22 PM  2 votes
stfrank

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

That's been RS' way of operating since he got here. He severely neglects a position until it's almost criminal. He did it with LB's, WR's and now Oline.

I like to call it management by crisis. There is no real plan, so they are just running around putting out one fire after another. With RS at the helm I have no reason to believe anything is going to change....rinse repeat.
Post #: 6226
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/24/2020 5:19:04 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Do you think anybody would offer a #1 for Diggs and would the Vikings do it?


No and yes.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?
Post #: 6227
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/25/2020 6:48:38 AM   
Bruce Johnson

 

Posts: 16352
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline 		One benefit of trading Diggs for a draft pick would be for the salary cap relief. Of course it would be another reason not to do it for the team coveting Diggs.

I am hearing a lot about how this years crop of receivers is special. We could use a more potent third receiver and we had the experience of Thielen getting hurt this past season so I would definitely hope to see another receiver drafted somewhere. Hopefully it is not just rich at the top, but deep. I haven't dug into the draft yet enough to know what positions are considered deep. That would be interesting to know.

Ah. I did find this article that seems to answer my question. Of course the question is subjective. (matter of opinion)

https://fanspeak.com/nfldraftnews/2019/12/16/2020-wr-class-ot-cb-rb-and-edge-also-has-depth-in-the-draft/

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?
Post #: 6228
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/25/2020 7:03:03 AM   
Todd M

 

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Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline 		Can someone do the math on this Diggs talk? All I see is a base salary of 10.9 due and 18 mil in dead money left.

Not seeing salary cap relief. And what are we going to do...use a first round pick we get on a wr and hope?

Honestly I see ZERO reason to entertain this idea.
Post #: 6229
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/25/2020 7:03:24 AM   
Todd M

 

Posts: 39703
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Status: offline 		DP

< Message edited by Todd M -- 1/25/2020 7:04:38 AM >
Post #: 6230
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/25/2020 7:16:34 AM   
Bruce Johnson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Can someone do the math on this Diggs talk? All I see is a base salary of 10.9 due and 18 mil in dead money left.

Not seeing salary cap relief. And what are we going to do...use a first round pick we get on a wr and hope?

Honestly I see ZERO reason to entertain this idea.


We have had our (bad) experience with drafting wide receivers in the first round and it didn't work out well. (Williamson and Treadwell were the last two.) So selecting a wide receiver in the first round is still kind of a crap shoot. Still, I am hearing this years crop is special and Diggs is a bit of a loose cannon.

Anyway, it's not going to happen.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?
Post #: 6231
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/25/2020 12:51:12 PM   
thebigo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Do you think anybody would offer a #1 for Diggs and would the Vikings do it?


No and yes.


You and I are 180 degrees apart on this. I say yes and no.
Post #: 6232
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/25/2020 1:04:30 PM   
Bill Jandro

 

Posts: 17808
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline 		No to trading Diggs. You can never have enough play makers.

OL
DT
WR
CB/S

In the opening rounds. Although this is fluid depending on re-signing D backs and FA aquisitions.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 6233
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/25/2020 1:38:14 PM   
Bill Jandro

 

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Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline 		The DB situation is dire considering 3 are hitting FA and one isn't even close to being worth what he is getting paid.

I think we should certainly re-sign Alexander. Slot CB's don't command as much salary as outside CB's.
I'd kick the tires on Waynes but I don't think we can or should match what he might get on the open market.
Dumping Rhodes is a given. I don't want him back even on a restructure. He's terrible.
So if we let both Waynes and Rhodes go we'll more than likely need to draft a CB capable of being a starter. Hill is a luxury if he can keep clean but in no shape or form can he be counted on. His next suspension would be for a full season.

Depending on how far we purge high priced players off the roster I can't see us being able to afford Harris. Not when your paying Smith big money. I'd certainly consider trading Smith and signing Harris. Either way we're more than likely going to need to draft a S as well.

Waynes and Harris will yield us 2 3rd picks if they walk. That will help with restoring the cupboard.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 6234
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/25/2020 2:46:37 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 27461
Status: offline 		Early predictions:

Griffen, Rhodes, Joseph cut or walk.

DE - In house replacement or move Hunter over and platoon at LDE.

DT - In house plus a mid-level space eater signing.

LT - Go with Reiff on a reduction, draft a boom/bust 4th rounder to hopefully compete with Udoh etc for 2021 starting job.

LG - Sign a younger low to mid-level type to battle with Samia and Co.

S - Try to sign Harris but if not, go with Smith and whoever.

WR - 1st or 2nd round plus late rounder.

CB - 1st or 2nd round plus late rounder.

QB - 3rd round QB with wheels. Not an all out runner but at least Mahommes type movement/scrambling/running.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 1/25/2020 2:48:49 PM >
Post #: 6235
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/25/2020 3:06:07 PM   
Bill Jandro

 

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Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline 		My bet we let Harris walk and they re-sign Sandejo.

This might make sense short term but certainly not long term.

But when you have a HC and GM on short term contracts they are only going to think short term.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 6236
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/25/2020 3:07:55 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 27461
Status: offline 		Then again, a QB like Utah State's Jordan Love could be intriguing if we could drop down into the early 2nd.

As usual, more needs than available resources.
Post #: 6237
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/25/2020 5:12:02 PM   
Pager


Posts: 10500
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline 		Re-sign Mac and Harris.

Biggest needs: IOL, 3 Tech, and CB. Make sure to grab a WR in the 4th or so (probably get a second round talent). Need a guy that stretches the field.

I'm not worried about our T situation. Move ONeil to LT. Let Udoh and Collins compete for the RT job.

Let Watts, Johnson, and Stephan rotate at NT.

Bring Griff back at 6M Per. Reif, Rhodes, Joseph gone. Use that 30M to resign Harris and Mac, the rest to needs.

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.
Post #: 6238
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/25/2020 5:29:59 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Do you think anybody would offer a #1 for Diggs and would the Vikings do it?


No and yes.


You and I are 180 degrees apart on this. I say yes and no.


It's a shame that we won't know who was right.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?
Post #: 6239
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/25/2020 5:50:40 PM   
Pager


Posts: 10500
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline 		Purple Post
@Purple_Post
#Vikings defensive interior pressures in 2018: 96 #Vikings defensive interior pressures in 2019: 33

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.
Post #: 6240
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/25/2020 6:36:25 PM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 33446
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

Do you think anybody would offer a #1 for Diggs and would the Vikings do it?


No and yes.


You and I are 180 degrees apart on this. I say yes and no.

You have your right to be wrong. We will never find out anyway.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."
Post #: 6241
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/25/2020 8:53:20 PM   
thebigo


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Joined: 7/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

My bet we let Harris walk and they re-sign Sandejo.

This might make sense short term but certainly not long term.

But when you have a HC and GM on short term contracts they are only going to think short term.


So you are recommending that Zimmer and Spiels be extended with long term deals, soonest.
Post #: 6242
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/25/2020 10:26:28 PM   
JT2

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

Purple Post
@Purple_Post
#Vikings defensive interior pressures in 2018: 96 #Vikings defensive interior pressures in 2019: 33



I wonder if our offensive interior pressures allowed mirror that?

This certainly isn't my area of expertise, but it seems to me that this was a problem area as well.
Post #: 6243
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/25/2020 11:59:47 PM   
David F.


Posts: 10832
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline 		Diggs has elite skills and star production and I still don't think we utilize him to his potential. His number one skill is his footwork. It's the best in the NFL and possibly in NFL history. 63 catches on 90-some targets even with Thielen out for a stretch? We could be getting so much more out of him. He'd have 100 catches per season if he played for New England or New Orleans.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!
Post #: 6244
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/26/2020 3:12:22 AM   
ratoppenheimer


Posts: 9304
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

Purple Post
@Purple_Post
#Vikings defensive interior pressures in 2018: 96 #Vikings defensive interior pressures in 2019: 33



defensive interior: couldn't stop the run + couldn't pressure the pass = complete failure

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.
Post #: 6245
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/26/2020 6:17:18 AM   
Bruce Johnson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

Purple Post
@Purple_Post
#Vikings defensive interior pressures in 2018: 96 #Vikings defensive interior pressures in 2019: 33



I wonder if our offensive interior pressures allowed mirror that?

This certainly isn't my area of expertise, but it seems to me that this was a problem area as well.


I recall the team getting pressure from Tom Johnson a couple of years ago. I looked it up. In 2017 he only had 2 sacks, but he had 35 quarterback hurries and five tackles behind the line of scrimmage. Without looking up the stats I don't think we got that kind of production from the interior of our defensive line. You know how it works with the pressure coming from the inside. It doesn't usually result in a sack, but it does make the quarterback uncomfortable to step up and frequently the defensive end gets the credit for the sack at the end of the play or at least the quarterback is forced to get rid of the ball.

Edit: I don't know if QB hits is the same as pressures, but I was able to find this: Weatherly had 9 QB hits and there were 14 between Joseph, (6) Jaleel Johnson (5), Stephen (2) and Watts. (1) I think it's clear that we were lacking in that department. I mean Everson Griffen had 22 by himself so we were getting the pressure from the outside. Hunter (24) and Odenigbo (13) were also major contributors. We didn't get a single QB hit from Hercules Mata'afa. I know he was not activated for play on most Sunday's, but the hype that was coming for him certainly didn't materialize this season.

< Message edited by Bruce Johnson -- 1/26/2020 6:35:47 AM >

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?
Post #: 6246
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/26/2020 9:08:31 AM   
Bill Jandro

 

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Joined: 8/13/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

My bet we let Harris walk and they re-sign Sandejo.

This might make sense short term but certainly not long term.

But when you have a HC and GM on short term contracts they are only going to think short term.


So you are recommending that Zimmer and Spiels be extended with long term deals, soonest.

No. But having a lame duck GM (or short timer) running operations is not a good business model.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 6247
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/26/2020 11:48:32 AM   
Viking Rich

 

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From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

Re-sign Mac and Harris.

Biggest needs: IOL, 3 Tech, and CB. Make sure to grab a WR in the 4th or so (probably get a second round talent). Need a guy that stretches the field.

I'm not worried about our T situation. Move ONeil to LT. Let Udoh and Collins compete for the RT job.

Let Watts, Johnson, and Stephan rotate at NT.

Bring Griff back at 6M Per. Reif, Rhodes, Joseph gone. Use that 30M to resign Harris and Mac, the rest to needs.


I like this, Pager.

A trouble spot is at LB. IMO, only Kendricks and Wilson are worth keeping. Signing Barr to that huge contract hurt, all the while drafting slow players like Gedeon and Smith have killed the depth. Hell, I would prefer Kearse over those two (I know he's a safety), but he's always been underutilized, and now rejected. You have Barr who can rush the passer, while Zimmer's scheme seems to reduce that impact. He has trouble covering anyone in the passing game.

Kendricks has been pretty durable, but having no depth puts a lot of stress on him. I blame Spielman and Zimmer for drafting players with no speed at this position. This coming season, I fully expect Gedeon to be inserted back into the starting lineup. I know he gets replaced in nickle packages, but for once, I'd like to see an athletic playmaker at that position and for the additional depth.

Biggest problem with this team is the coaching and GM decision making.

_____________________________

Give Chandler the Rock
Post #: 6248
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/26/2020 11:58:08 AM   
CPAMAN

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JT2

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

Purple Post
@Purple_Post
#Vikings defensive interior pressures in 2018: 96 #Vikings defensive interior pressures in 2019: 33



I wonder if our offensive interior pressures allowed mirror that?

This certainly isn't my area of expertise, but it seems to me that this was a problem area as well.


This is one of the most nauseating stats I have EVER seen! This means that only on average, two plays per game did the D tackles of the Vikings put any pressure on the opposing QB. That is essentially the equivalent of having zero impact on the outcome of a game. Seriously, players need to have their salaries impacted by performance at this nonexistent level. This is analogous to a prize fighter being disqualified for not fighting or attempting to fight. I actually saw this happen one time on ESPN. In a heavy weight match, one boxer who was obviously entirely out of shape, spent the better part of two rounds covering himself up with his gloves and virtually not throwing more than two or three lunges in either round. They disqualified after the second round. This was the Vikings defensive tackles this season and they were paid for it. Disgusting!

_____________________________

Lots of Christopher Columbus statues available on ebay.
Post #: 6249
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/26/2020 2:17:17 PM   
Bill Jandro

 

Posts: 17808
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline 		Obviously Richardson was better than many credited him for. Idk his pressure stats for 2018 but we had 96 with him and 33 w/o him.

Getting an effective 3t might be the most impactful thing we can do for the defense this off season.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 6250
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