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RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2019 7:08:09 AM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 17928
Joined: 8/13/2007
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KFC.....

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 876

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2019 7:10:57 AM

Bill Jandro

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Joined: 8/13/2007
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Bradbury hasn't been good but I'm not going to panic yet.

Our pass pro has been awful but our run blocking has been quite stellar.

I'd like to see some analysis on how Dozier did.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 877

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2019 7:16:15 AM

jbusse

Posts: 1309
Joined: 9/11/2013
From: Atlanta, GA
Status: offline

Gardner Minshew on the Jaguars looks really good, especially considering he's a rookie 6th round pick. Not the strongest arm, but extremely accurate and poise under pressure in the pocket. I can't recall the last time the Vikings had a lower-round QB that looked good in a regular season game.

Post #: 878

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2019 7:18:33 AM

jbusse

Posts: 1309
Joined: 9/11/2013
From: Atlanta, GA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Bradbury hasn't been good but I'm not going to panic yet.

Our pass pro has been awful but our run blocking has been quite stellar.

I'd like to see some analysis on how Dozier did.

Considering that O'Neil's pass protection has been excellent, it says something about how bad the interior has played again this year.

Post #: 879

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2019 8:03:00 AM

Ragnarök

Posts: 2274
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

Gardner Minshew on the Jaguars looks really good, especially considering he's a rookie 6th round pick. Not the strongest arm, but extremely accurate and poise under pressure in the pocket. I can't recall the last time the Vikings had a lower-round QB that looked good in a regular season game.

He is young an confident, not scared to take a risk to succeed, plays over his head but didnt let the game be too big for him. Very nice to see in a young guy!

When he was asked if surprised by his success “No, because I know the preparation I put in,” Minshew said, via News 4 in Jacksonville. “I know the guys that I have around me and the coaches we have have done everything they can to prepare me. I’ve never felt unprepared. Didn’t have much experience but I’m definitely prepared.”

Through three games of his NFL career, Minshew has completed 65 of 88 passes for an outstanding 73.9 percent completion rate, with 692 yards, an average of 7.9 yards per pass, with five touchdowns and one interception. Those are very good numbers for any quarterback. For a sixth-round rookie, they’re extremely surprising — to everyone but Minshew.

We may have had those guys on the roster in players like Case and especially Sloter but that is not an type of player that can coexist with our HC Zimm, so 30 more games with KFC who we are afraid to have anyone behind him who may threaten his job and confidence level...

2021 and we will have a team much like the Jags, new coach and regime, strong defense, key parts all there for a new system and fresh new QB to plug and play with all the good and bad of unknowns of a young QB honestly it seems we will be ready 30 games from now depending on how the KFC experiment continues to go... Sure wish Sloter was in the building yet, think he would have flourished with a young OC mind like Jacksonville has (we had him last year too DeFlippo)

< Message edited by Ragnarök -- 9/20/2019 8:16:23 AM >

Post #: 880

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2019 8:04:48 AM

bstinger

Posts: 16530
Joined: 7/20/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trekgeekscott

quote:

ORIGINAL: Daniel Lee Young

Throw the fn ball this week.. god I wish we had a simply competent play action passing game

Cousins couldn’t fake his way out of a piss test with a whizzinator..

Ontario Smith, concurs....

Actually It's supposed to be one of the things Cousins is really good at. We just didn't have a running game last year and they haven't figured out now to call it properly now.

Instead they do naked bootlegs and screens that fail every effin time.

Exactly. One of the highest rated play action QB's in the NFL since he became a starter.

Pretty sure the Packers told there DEs away from running plays to stay at home.

Kevin Stefanski and Gary Kubiak might have to admit that opposing defenses are already catching on to the designed bootlegs that everyone was so excited about in Training Camp. By my count, the Vikings had at least five plays where Cousins attempted to go outside of the pocket by design. Each time, the Packers had an edge defender waiting out wide. The book on defending the Vikings offense seems to be to keep Cousins in the pocket and let your interior pass rush get home against Minnesota’s shoddy pass blocking. That game plan worked all too well for Green Bay last week.

https://www.dailynorseman.com/2019/9/19/20872406/minnesota-vikings-oakland-raiders-preview-2019-week-3-nfl-picks

Post #: 881

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2019 8:16:13 AM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 17928
Joined: 8/13/2007
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GB DE's were very disciplined, I give them credit. However, not every bootleg needs to be a naked one. Swing a guard or a back or a TE around to handle the DE. An extra second or two would make a big difference.

Agree. Cousins, however, should be able to side step the guy and get a clear throwing lane. Erin was in the same situation in their final drive running out the clock on a 3rd down. he didn't panic and just side stepped and threw a strike for a first down.

Erin was cool and collect while Cousins body language was 'oh shit".

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 882

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2019 8:26:29 AM

Ragnarök

Posts: 2274
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

GB DE's were very disciplined, I give them credit. However, not every bootleg needs to be a naked one. Swing a guard or a back or a TE around to handle the DE. An extra second or two would make a big difference.

Agree. Cousins, however, should be able to side step the guy and get a clear throwing lane. Erin was in the same situation in their final drive running out the clock on a 3rd down. he didn't panic and just side stepped and threw a strike for a first down.

Erin was cool and collect while Cousins body language was 'oh shit".

When KFC goes all chicken on us bad shit happens...

reminds me of that old commercial of John Randal chasing chicken around...

Post #: 883

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2019 8:38:02 AM

Ragnarök

Posts: 2274
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

GB DE's were very disciplined, I give them credit. However, not every bootleg needs to be a naked one. Swing a guard or a back or a TE around to handle the DE. An extra second or two would make a big difference.

Agree. Cousins, however, should be able to side step the guy and get a clear throwing lane. Erin was in the same situation in their final drive running out the clock on a 3rd down. he didn't panic and just side stepped and threw a strike for a first down.

Erin was cool and collect while Cousins body language was 'oh shit".

When KFC goes all chicken on us bad shit happens...

reminds me of that old commercial of John Randal chasing chicken around...

As well, if you watch tape its clear on numerous occasions in game when we provided that extra coverage in backfield on PP plays Kirk stayed in the pocket (because of comfort), locked on to a read and made bad decisions throwing to incorrect option, several almost resulting in INT and essentially ending the drive on 3rd downs. Rather than going through progressions or calmly sliding out, buying extra time with the comfort of added backfield blocking. He does look rattled more like end of last year yet with the body language and wincing and grimace before any real pressure even happens.

Post #: 884

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2019 9:42:37 AM

kevinemmer

Posts: 4659
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Bozeman, MT
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

Gardner Minshew on the Jaguars looks really good, especially considering he's a rookie 6th round pick. Not the strongest arm, but extremely accurate and poise under pressure in the pocket. I can't recall the last time the Vikings had a lower-round QB that looked good in a regular season game.

Kid makes plays.
Uncanny accuracy, born leader.

Post #: 885

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2019 9:58:34 AM

David F.

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Joined: 12/31/2007
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Our last three first round picks: Garrett Bradbury, Mike Hughes, Laquon Treadwell. We could just as well be trading our #1's for established stars.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 886

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2019 10:40:49 AM

Trekgeekscott

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From: United Federation of Planets
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ragnarök

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Cousins has been pressured on 60% of his dropbacks, which leads the league by a mile.

Bradbury leads the league in pressures per drop back...

Last year the worst in the league for center pressure per drop back was 1 every 14 as worst and that wasnt Elf (who was 2nd worst center statistically in league)

Now reflect on Bradbury's number this year... 1 every 7 QB drop backs!

quote:

He has had two really tough matchups, though. I'm not trying to be an apologist, but he is a rookie playing his first two games vs the best in the league. Still, his play has been very disappointing to me. I was thinking that center was going to be a strength of the team. We need to see progress this week or I will be on the bandwagon for freaking out.

He has had two really tough matchups, though. I'm not trying to be an apologist, but he is a rookie playing his first two games vs the best in the league. Still, his play has been very disappointing to me. I was thinking that center was going to be a strength of the team. We need to see progress this week or I will be on the bandwagon for freaking out.

He's played two games. Against very good interior DLmen. Plus I think a point many are missing is everyone knows we are starting a ROOKIE there, No doubt they are attacking the line right there to take advantage of is inexperience.

He needs to adjust and so do Kubiak and Stefanski

_____________________________

“There is no hate like Christian love.”

Post #: 887

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2019 10:42:34 AM

TJSweens

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Joined: 7/16/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Our last three first round picks: Garrett Bradbury, Mike Hughes, Laquon Treadwell. We could just as well be trading our #1's for established stars.

quote:

Really? After 2 games, you know Bradbury is a bust. You know that Hughes will never be a good corner even though he looked really promising before his injury. I'll give you Treadwell, but come on, you're jumping the gun a little with your assessment.

Really? After 2 games, you know Bradbury is a bust. You know that Hughes will never be a good corner even though he looked really promising before his injury. I'll give you Treadwell, but come on, you're jumping the gun a little with your assessment.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 888

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2019 10:56:58 AM

David F.

Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Our last three first round picks: Garrett Bradbury, Mike Hughes, Laquon Treadwell. We could just as well be trading our #1's for established stars.

quote:

Really? After 2 games, you know Bradbury is a bust. You know that Hughes will never be a good corner even though he looked really promising before his injury. I'll give you Treadwell, but come on, you're jumping the gun a little with your assessment.

Really? After 2 games, you know Bradbury is a bust. You know that Hughes will never be a good corner even though he looked really promising before his injury. I'll give you Treadwell, but come on, you're jumping the gun a little with your assessment.

Would you trade all three right now for three established stars?

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 889

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2019 11:15:53 AM

TJSweens

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What's your definition of established star and what do you think we reasonably could have gotten for those picks?

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 890

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2019 11:53:55 AM

David F.

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Joined: 12/31/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

What's your definition of established star and what do you think we reasonably could have gotten for those picks?

Jalen Ramsey, Amare Cooper, Minkah Fitzpatrick, Laremy Tunsil, Odell Beckham Jr., Khalil Mack, Brandon Cooks, Jimmy Garropollo.

Pick any three. If we give back Sam Bradford for the #1 we gave up in 2017 you can pick any four.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 891

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2019 12:07:31 PM

Ragnarök

Posts: 2274
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

What's your definition of established star and what do you think we reasonably could have gotten for those picks?

Jalen Ramsey, Amare Cooper, Minkah Fitzpatrick, Laremy Tunsil, Odell Beckham Jr., Khalil Mack, Brandon Cooks, Jimmy Garropollo.

Pick any three. If we give back Sam Bradford for the #1 we gave up in 2017 you can pick any four.

Not to mention its going to cost at least another #1 maybe more to get a team in dumpster rebuild mode like Miami to take the Kirk Cousins contract off our hands for 2020!

Post #: 892

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2019 12:22:07 PM

thebigo

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Joined: 7/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Our last three first round picks: Garrett Bradbury, Mike Hughes, Laquon Treadwell. We could just as well be trading our #1's for established stars.

And get equal talent in return of course, because we know that the salaries of the rookie contracts will be equal to what we have to pay the equally talented established stars, and that the management of other teams are a bunch of dumb guys.

Post #: 893

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2019 12:25:26 PM

David F.

Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Our last three first round picks: Garrett Bradbury, Mike Hughes, Laquon Treadwell. We could just as well be trading our #1's for established stars.

And get equal talent in return of course, because we know that the salaries of the rookie contracts will be equal to what we have to pay the equally talented established stars, and that the management of other teams are a bunch of dumb guys.

The point of the discussion is to look at whether or not first-round-picks are over-valued by NFL GMs. Draft picks in general, in my opinion, are over-valued.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 894

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2019 12:36:55 PM

bohumm

Posts: 5705
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: Altadena, CA
Status: offline

Rags always quite compelling. Everything comes down to KFC.....

I'd like to visit a parallel universe sit called TalkRagnarok where Kirk Cousins drones on and on about how RagnaFuckingRoc goes about his daily life, job, relationships, etc. Probably some room to find fault.

Rags re: KFC = Dog re: squirrels

Post #: 895

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2019 12:41:42 PM

bohumm

Posts: 5705
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: Altadena, CA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Our last three first round picks: Garrett Bradbury, Mike Hughes, Laquon Treadwell. We could just as well be trading our #1's for established stars.

And get equal talent in return of course, because we know that the salaries of the rookie contracts will be equal to what we have to pay the equally talented established stars, and that the management of other teams are a bunch of dumb guys.

The point of the discussion is to look at whether or not first-round-picks are over-valued by NFL GMs. Draft picks in general, in my opinion, are over-valued.

What is undervalued is talent evaluation, which could allow positive draft pick exchange.

Post #: 896

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2019 12:53:06 PM

Ragnarök

Posts: 2274
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

Rags always quite compelling. Everything comes down to KFC.....

I'd like to visit a parallel universe sit called TalkRagnarok where Kirk Cousins drones on and on about how RagnaFuckingRoc goes about his daily life, job, relationships, etc. Probably some room to find fault.

Rags re: KFC = Dog re: squirrels

Funny stuff!

Unfortunately I do not work for a mega entertainment corporation geared on pleasing cash cow paying fans in an age where every move is scrutinized on media by the minute...

who hired a face of the franchise catalyst of a player to a unprecedented fully guaranteed multi year deal to be seen as a missing link in all that was needed to take the next step in winning a Super Bowl. A player that openly admitted that GOD told him Minnesota was his chosen destination... A player that then had warning signs that were ignored and now are showing themselves like giant billboards calling out to you on I35, 94, 394.494 and 649 YOU VIKE THAT

That KirkFuckingCousins is a polarizing player like it or not and he plays for a team at a position we deem rather important here on this message board... Like him, hate him or whatever he is quite the subject no matter what Vikings site you dive into...

Me Im just some dumbfuck who likes to comment... carry on...

< Message edited by Ragnarök -- 9/20/2019 12:55:34 PM >

Post #: 897

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2019 1:07:41 PM

thebigo

Posts: 28303
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Our last three first round picks: Garrett Bradbury, Mike Hughes, Laquon Treadwell. We could just as well be trading our #1's for established stars.

And get equal talent in return of course, because we know that the salaries of the rookie contracts will be equal to what we have to pay the equally talented established stars, and that the management of other teams are a bunch of dumb guys.

The point of the discussion is to look at whether or not first-round-picks are over-valued by NFL GMs. Draft picks in general, in my opinion, are over-valued.

I don't know how that is possible, as every player entering the league is subject to the draft process, whether drafted or not. The draft hits/misses all balance out talent evaluation wise, skewed only slightly by the outlier UDFA

Post #: 898

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2019 1:09:14 PM

thebigo

Posts: 28303
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

Rags always quite compelling. Everything comes down to KFC.....

I'd like to visit a parallel universe sit called TalkRagnarok where Kirk Cousins drones on and on about how RagnaFuckingRoc goes about his daily life, job, relationships, etc. Probably some room to find fault.

Rags re: KFC = Dog re: squirrels

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

Post #: 899

RE: General Vikes Talk - 9/20/2019 1:12:28 PM

Ragnarök

Posts: 2274
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

Rags always quite compelling. Everything comes down to KFC.....

I'd like to visit a parallel universe sit called TalkRagnarok where Kirk Cousins drones on and on about how RagnaFuckingRoc goes about his daily life, job, relationships, etc. Probably some room to find fault.

Rags re: KFC = Dog re: squirrels

I don't think that word means what you think it means.