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RE: Free Agency 2020 - 5/5/2020 10:06:54 AM

Guest

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Is Udoh ready to start otherwise? I know that he appears to have stepped right off the blueprint for a starting LT, but is he ready?

Until we drafted another so-called LT instead perhaps he WAS the plan?

Post #: 1076

RE: Free Agency 2020 - 5/5/2020 10:27:39 AM

TJSweens

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kurt bilben

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Is Udoh ready to start otherwise? I know that he appears to have stepped right off the blueprint for a starting LT, but is he ready?

Until we drafted another so-called LT instead perhaps he WAS the plan?

That's the big problem facing the Vikings in constructing an O-line this year. They are missing out on all of the early camps and team activities, where they would normally start the evaluation process.

Guys like Elf and Reiff may still here as contingencies. Reiff's dead cap number drops to $2.2M after June 1. Elflein's dead cap is just $234K. They can cut these guys in camp if the younger players look good and/ or they themselves suck.

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Post #: 1077

RE: Free Agency 2020 - 5/5/2020 10:28:56 AM

Pager

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I know the Udoh to LG has been popular based on a comp to Osemele (sp?). I worry about such a raw prospect, from a small school, new to football, in year two making that transition. Hard enough to make the switch from Tackle to Guard but going from the right side to left side is supposed to be harder. I think some lineman compared it to wiping your backside with your opposite hand. Add both to the equation and I'm skeptical.

Can Collins be relied on due to injury? I don't know what the team doctors say about Collins or reinjury chances for each affliction that caused him to miss time. One was an elbow injury and the other a knee i think? It's a very fair point. I just hope there is robust competition and we have some young bucks rise to the challenge. We also have some guys who can step in like Elf/Jones/Dozier.

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Post #: 1078

RE: Free Agency 2020 - 5/5/2020 10:30:09 AM

Pager

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Hasn't Udoh only played RT? I always thought if he did make the starting lineup it would be at RT and ONeil would move to LT.

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Left picking up the pieces.

Post #: 1079

RE: Free Agency 2020 - 5/5/2020 10:30:09 AM

kgdabom

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kurt bilben

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

I was pleasantly surprised by Kline last year, and I'd welcome him back, but the team might want the young'uns to play this year and thus won't pay more than a minimum or slightly higher contract to provide a backstop. I think the team is looking at 2021 as they year to compete for a championship. With three new starters at CB, two empty guard spots, and youngsters/no depth at a number of positions, 2020 is the year to develop. Don't have any insight beyond watching their actions, but I don't think we're in "win now" mode.

Stupid part of the Kline cut is the amount of dead money. He'd have to be willing to come back for 2M or less or it will cost us more in cap than if we hadn't cut him.

I was reading an article where the author thinks 9-7 wins the Central. I think we can win 9 game, more if some youngsters step up.

We drafted a couple of offensive linemen in the back end of the draft. (Brandel and Hinton) Obviously the team likes them or they wouldn't get drafted. They won't be ready this year, especially this year. I hear that the Vikings will be grooming Hinton for center and perhaps guard too. I'm not sure about Brandel. Shoot. There are so many draft picks they all can't make the roster, but in the case of Hinton my hunch is that they won't be able to stash him on the practice squad.

If we wind up keeping Reiff and he plays fairly well at guard, then we don't need any more free agent guards. That's what I'm thinking at the moment, but I certainly don't have a high degree of confidence in that.

If I'm not mistaken Kline had an issue with concussions. I think the team wants to get young. Samia and Udoh at guard would be really cool and we would be getting younger in a hurry.

I think concussion played a part of Kline being cut. But for the price, they could have had competition with a solid vet. If Samia was good enough, no big loss to trade or cut Kline. Much harder to bring him back though.

I'm all about the youth movement. I'd much rather see some mistakes and be optimistic about improvement from a youngster than average play by vets. What I've hated the most about the 2018 & 19 oline play is the status freaking quo. Remmers and Comptom might have been the worst guards in the history of the nfl and got a rope long enough to hang the postseason. Same thing with Elf last year. My gawd at some point you have to bench piss poor performance don't you?

If any of the younsters are in the same neighborhood as Reiff at LT or LG, I'd rather cut/trade him and save the 9M. Take the lumps and hope the youngsters jell. No way Reiff is back next year unless he plays like Thuney at Guard (Reiff will be making 14M).

In a vacuum I'm hoping for Cleveland/Collins/Bradbury/Samia/ONeill.

You like Collins better than Udoh at guard? Is that because you want to keep Udoh as a backup tackle?

My question would be how in the hell could we rely on Aviante Collins for anything?

All the glowing practice reports don’t make up for long, long stints of time not being available due to injury.

Pager- your take on Reiff is exactly what my feelings on simply shifting our $13.5mil LT to guard has any good effect on our OLine at all. Yes if one of our youngsters is anywhere near him in competence at G, I definitely go in that direction. Just because Reiff was a decent Tackle does not mean he’s going to be a decent G (Although DECENT would be a huge upgrade over Elf)

Almost every single so-called expert a few years said the former TE Brian O’Neill was a raw, project coming out of Pitt and wouldn’t contribute for years. Cleveland looks quite refined in comparison.

I think the negative narrative on Cleveland will look silly come this time next year.

_____________________________

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So let it be done."

Post #: 1080

RE: Free Agency 2020 - 5/5/2020 12:00:09 PM

Bruce Johnson

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I only remember Udoh at RT. I believe Cleveland had more reps that O'Neill did in college. Collins has been hurt it seems every year. I don't really trust him.

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RE: Free Agency 2020 - 5/5/2020 12:52:41 PM

unome

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

Hasn't Udoh only played RT? I always thought if he did make the starting lineup it would be at RT and ONeil would move to LT.

I agree. I do not see Udoh at LT. Of course, I think we are mostly likely to see him at Guard.

Post #: 1082

RE: Free Agency 2020 - 5/5/2020 2:54:35 PM

Trekgeekscott

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Ezra Cleveland is 6'6". He also lacks power. The book on him is he needs to get stronger. I don't want him playing guard. He's not a good fit for that.

i would offer thor bjornsson $5m for one year to play left guard for us...really....

dead lift: 1,105 lbs
squat: 970 lbs

Seasons on Game of Thrones 4

He's an actor, and strongest man competitor. He is not a football player.

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I don't want to go through things that don't kill me and make me stronger anymore.

Post #: 1083

RE: Free Agency 2020 - 5/5/2020 3:49:02 PM

thebigo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Is Udoh ready to start otherwise? I know that he appears to have stepped right off the blueprint for a starting LT, but is he ready?

I don't think anyone is looking at Udoh as a LT. Not anytime soon anyway. Although was that where he lined up in the Chicago exhibition game?

Post #: 1084

RE: Free Agency 2020 - 5/6/2020 1:27:11 AM

unome

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Is Udoh ready to start otherwise? I know that he appears to have stepped right off the blueprint for a starting LT, but is he ready?

I don't think anyone is looking at Udoh as a LT. Not anytime soon anyway. Although was that where he lined up in the Chicago exhibition game?

Right Tackle in the Bears game.

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RE: Free Agency 2020 - 5/6/2020 7:02:18 AM

Bill Jandro

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What's with the Udoh to LT coming from?

That's one of the last places we'd put him.

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Oline...early and often this draft

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RE: Free Agency 2020 - 5/6/2020 8:08:10 AM

Bruce Johnson

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We just drafted our left tackle of the future. If he is successful there then by virtue of that it will be a successful draft. LT's are a big deal.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 1087

RE: Free Agency 2020 - 5/6/2020 9:27:48 AM

TJSweens

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

What's with the Udoh to LT coming from?

That's one of the last places we'd put him.

I made a simple comment on what Udoh looks like based on his physical attributes and the board ran with it. I wasn't advocating for him to be the LT.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 1088

RE: Free Agency 2020 - 5/6/2020 9:32:51 AM

Mark Anderson

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

What's with the Udoh to LT coming from?

That's one of the last places we'd put him.

I made a simple comment on what Udoh looks like based on his physical attributes and the board ran with it. I wasn't advocating for him to be the LT.

I'm not an Oline coach but this guy needs to be starting somewhere on our line. No way there are 5 more athletic, strong and agile guys on our roster.

Post #: 1089

RE: Free Agency 2020 - 5/6/2020 9:37:26 AM

thebigo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

What's with the Udoh to LT coming from?

That's one of the last places we'd put him.

I made a simple comment on what Udoh looks like based on his physical attributes and the board ran with it. I wasn't advocating for him to be the LT.

The way you worded it made it seem like you were advocating it.

Post #: 1090

RE: Free Agency 2020 - 5/6/2020 10:10:47 AM

TJSweens

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

What's with the Udoh to LT coming from?

That's one of the last places we'd put him.

I made a simple comment on what Udoh looks like based on his physical attributes and the board ran with it. I wasn't advocating for him to be the LT.

The way you worded it made it seem like you were advocating it.

Great. I'm back in 5th English class with Sister Mary.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 1091

RE: Free Agency 2020 - 5/6/2020 10:20:51 AM

Pager

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Looks like I was wrong on Udoh and guard play. He did play RG in college his first year. He also played RG at the Shrine Bowl and reps at G at the Senior Bowl.

https://dawindycity.com/2019/02/03/chicago-bears-oli-udoh-nfl-draft/3/

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Post #: 1092

RE: Free Agency 2020 - 5/6/2020 10:44:54 AM

thebigo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

What's with the Udoh to LT coming from?

That's one of the last places we'd put him.

I made a simple comment on what Udoh looks like based on his physical attributes and the board ran with it. I wasn't advocating for him to be the LT.

The way you worded it made it seem like you were advocating it.

Great. I'm back in 5th English class with Sister Mary.

Maybe you'll pass this time.

Post #: 1093

RE: Free Agency 2020 - 5/6/2020 10:47:24 AM

TJSweens

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

What's with the Udoh to LT coming from?

That's one of the last places we'd put him.

I made a simple comment on what Udoh looks like based on his physical attributes and the board ran with it. I wasn't advocating for him to be the LT.

The way you worded it made it seem like you were advocating it.

Great. I'm back in 5th English class with Sister Mary.

Maybe you'll pass this time.

I hope so sister.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 1094

RE: Free Agency 2020 - 5/6/2020 11:03:50 AM

Phil Riewer

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Rookies: Cleveland, Brandel, Hinton, Lacina, Aiello, Higby
2nd Year: Samia, Udoh

For Sure: Reiff, Oneil, Bradbury

Others: Dozier, Elf, Collins,

Should be able to sift thru the rest to make this line considerably better this year....then draft 3 more next year again.

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Post #: 1095

RE: Free Agency 2020 - 5/6/2020 11:51:16 AM

ratoppenheimer

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From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

What's with the Udoh to LT coming from?

That's one of the last places we'd put him.

I made a simple comment on what Udoh looks like based on his physical attributes and the board ran with it. I wasn't advocating for him to be the LT.

I'm not an Oline coach but this guy needs to be starting somewhere on our line. No way there are 5 more athletic, strong and agile guys on our roster.

i'm with you...the one thing that i know about our o-line is that elflien absolutely failed last year - i also know that i want him gone...plug in udah and samia at the guard spots - cleveland at lt and let's go, baby....

also, re-sign kline if he's healthy as a backup...cut elf...sign griffen, and sure as hell don't practice squad quartney davis....

i just saw a final roster projection and they had cut stephen - zimmer made some very positive comments about shamar at the end of last season, so i don't know...but i think that cutting stephen and elflien gets us griff back on the team....

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the journey...is paradise.

Post #: 1096

RE: Free Agency 2020 - 5/6/2020 12:28:33 PM

Pager

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Cutting Stephen would save 1.2M with 3.8M in dead cap. Elf would save 2.1M with 234k in dead cap.

Kline and Stephen had some big cap hits in 2nd year relative to savings.

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Left picking up the pieces.

Post #: 1097

RE: Free Agency 2020 - 5/6/2020 12:36:03 PM

Bruce Johnson

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We have kind of a glut at DT. Put me in the camp of may the best players be kept, regardless of the salary implications. There is is going to be some serious competition at that position and I like that.

At guard, I don't know what the heck the Vikings are doing. Maybe Reiff will be a good LG. Maybe Elflein will have a day of reckoning. When I think about it, I kind of like Udoh as a backup at guard and tackle. That makes him valuable and he probably will play that way.

< Message edited by Bruce Johnson -- 5/6/2020 2:13:55 PM >

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 1098

RE: Free Agency 2020 - 5/6/2020 1:20:09 PM

Tom Sykes

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Rookies: Cleveland, Brandel, Hinton, Lacina, Aiello, Higby
2nd Year: Samia, Udoh

For Sure: Reiff, Oneil, Bradbury

Others: Dozier, Elf, Collins,

Should be able to sift thru the rest to make this line considerably better this year....then draft 3 more next year again.

BASED ON PERFORMANCE
Starter For sure: O'Neill
Possible Starter:
Back-up: Hill
Others:

BASED ON DRAFT INVESTMENT
Starter For sure: Bradbury
Possible Starter: Cleveland
Back-up:
Others:

BASED ON HAVING NOTHING BETTER
Starter For sure: Reiff
Possible Starter:
Back-up:
Others:

BASED ON PRACTICE (PROPHESY, PROGNOSTICATION AND DIVINATION)
Starter For sure:
Possible Starter: Samia, Udoh
Back-up:
Others:

BASED ON FILLING ROSTER SPOTS
Starter For sure
Possible Starter:
Back-up: Dozier, Elf, Collins
Others (Practice Squad Candidates): Brandel, Hinton, Lacina, Aiello, Higby

< Message edited by Tom Sykes -- 5/6/2020 1:22:08 PM >

Post #: 1099

RE: Free Agency 2020 - 5/6/2020 1:40:41 PM

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9312
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Rookies: Cleveland, Brandel, Hinton, Lacina, Aiello, Higby
2nd Year: Samia, Udoh

For Sure: Reiff, Oneil, Bradbury

Others: Dozier, Elf, Collins,

Should be able to sift thru the rest to make this line considerably better this year....then draft 3 more next year again.

BASED ON PERFORMANCE
Starter For sure: O'Neill
Possible Starter:
Back-up: Hill
Others:

BASED ON DRAFT INVESTMENT
Starter For sure: Bradbury
Possible Starter: Cleveland
Back-up:
Others:

BASED ON HAVING NOTHING BETTER
Starter For sure: Reiff
Possible Starter:
Back-up:
Others:

BASED ON PRACTICE (PROPHESY, PROGNOSTICATION AND DIVINATION)
Starter For sure:
Possible Starter: Samia, Udoh
Back-up:
Others:

BASED ON FILLING ROSTER SPOTS
Starter For sure
Possible Starter:
Back-up: Dozier, Elf, Collins
Others (Practice Squad Candidates): Brandel, Hinton, Lacina, Aiello, Higby

if we're thinking/hoping Cleveland starts at lt then reiff is vulnerable for a cut...does he have the lower body strength?...has he been training for a move over the offseason?...everyone knows remmers moving was a complete failure...if udoh has been training for the left guard position over the last year+ he could be much stronger and better prepared than reiff....

it would be great for the team if we can move forward this season without reiff - saves about $8m - can we trade reiff for a solid starting guard?....

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the journey...is paradise.

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