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RE: General Vikes Talk - 7/31/2020 12:08:41 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

If Holmes is cut he will be considered a very bad 3rd rd pick. I think kicking the tires on Snacks or (if healthy) Timmy Jernigan might be better than keeping the sloth in Stephens.

Smith is probably cheaper than Gedeon(whom also wasn't a great selection) being it appears Wilson has supplanted him as the 3rd LB. I think they really like Dye to contribute this year.

Brandel should be a protected player on the PS



plus smith has three years left on his rookie deal - gedeon is in his last year...that said, i'd still keep gedeon over smith - he's more instinctive and physical - a thumper that's good against the run....

it wouldn't shock me if we let barr go next season - keep dye, wilson, kendricks and 2021 2nd/3rd round rookie....


I was curious about the salary cap implications of releasing Barr. I mean, I'm a huge fan of him, but I can see that perhaps we are not getting the best value for the huge bucks we are paying. Looking at it, it's clear that we can't cut him this season and even next year will be painful. (7.8 million in dead money) Without looking it up that's comparable to Reiff's contract and impact of cutting him this season. I guess it's possible, but it looks like to me unlikely if he continues to play at a solid, if not spectacular level of play.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/anthony-barr-14418/

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?
Post #: 2576
RE: General Vikes Talk - 7/31/2020 12:11:12 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
Minnesota Vikings@Vikings

T Blake Brandel has been activated from Reserve/COVID-19.

CB Nevelle Clark has passed his physical and has been removed from Active/Non-Football Injury.

Good news. Hopefully they all get removed from that COVID-19 reserve list quickly. We REALLY need Jefferson in camp. Udoh also. Barr can probably catch up quickly if he misses time.


I agree that we want the rookies especially to come back soon, but I'm wondering how much of a problem it is for them to be out when they are only doing "conditioning". We still have a couple of weeks before they practice without pads.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?
Post #: 2577
RE: General Vikes Talk - 7/31/2020 12:18:15 PM   
ratoppenheimer


Posts: 9495
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

This makes sense to me. Normally I would say it's too early to do this speculation, but I post it anyway without much going on and I'm weary of the Covid issue with the players.

https://zonecoverage.com/2020/minnesota-vikings-news/minnesota-vikings-53-man-roster-projection-2-0/

I didn't like him having us cut Brandel and I sure didn't get him having Cameron Smith over Ben Gedeon. Other than that it makes sense.



no way on beebe, we need more speed/athleticism...beebe should move to the cfl....

tajae is probably a one-year rental - means we need to keep some younger players, now....

i'm not a huge fan of bibi johnson either - i see him staying, but not being extended - ever...keep young players....

this is our final roster of wr's: thielen, Jefferson, tajae, johnson, osborn, hollins - ps protected - quartney davis....

< Message edited by ratoppenheimer -- 7/31/2020 12:29:41 PM >


_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.
Post #: 2578
RE: General Vikes Talk - 7/31/2020 12:18:53 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

If Holmes is cut he will be considered a very bad 3rd rd pick. I think kicking the tires on Snacks or (if healthy) Timmy Jernigan might be better than keeping the sloth in Stephens.

Smith is probably cheaper than Gedeon(whom also wasn't a great selection) being it appears Wilson has supplanted him as the 3rd LB. I think they really like Dye to contribute this year.

Brandel should be a protected player on the PS



Agreed - whiff on Holmes. Holmes was actually a 4th round pick, but it was one of the Spielman trade back specials. If I remember right, there were some guys on the board I really liked. I might have to look at the draft to refresh my memory.

Gedeon was a decent contributor. Its always great when solid gets pushed out the door.

This article was pretty safe. I don't think Beebe makes the roster. Thielan and Jefferson can man the slot and we're in two tight end packages much more than the average team. I like Hollins more at this point - and he got some PT down the stretch last yr.

Was surprised KGB was ok with Dillon not even making practice squad.

I think Abdullah makes roster unless we figure out a KR option - which might be harder with COVID. Still think Reiff is gone and potentially Elf.

No other big surprises to me.


I went back to check. Holmes was actually the second pick in the fourth round, so very similar to where Mattison was taken last year. Of course we have to agree that Mattison looks like a better selection than Holmes, right now. Anyway, when I looked at the names selected before Holmes nobody stood out, but I am not a great personnel on other teams guy. Maybe you see somebody here that would have been much better.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_NFL_Draft

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?
Post #: 2579
RE: General Vikes Talk - 7/31/2020 12:20:24 PM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 33742
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

This makes sense to me. Normally I would say it's too early to do this speculation, but I post it anyway without much going on and I'm weary of the Covid issue with the players.

https://zonecoverage.com/2020/minnesota-vikings-news/minnesota-vikings-53-man-roster-projection-2-0/

I didn't like him having us cut Brandel and I sure didn't get him having Cameron Smith over Ben Gedeon. Other than that it makes sense.



no way on beebe, we need more speed/athleticism...beebe should move to the cfl....

tajae is probably a one-year rental - means we need to keep some younger players, now....

i'm not a huge fan of bibi johnson either - i see him staying, but not being extended - ever...keep young players....

this is our final roster of wr's: thielen, Jefferson, tajae, johnson, osborn, hollins - ps protected - davis....

Yes we shouldn't have Beebe and we shouldn't cut Dillon Mitchell. I decided not to nitpick.
I think if speed is what you want than we definitely have to get rid of Hollins and D Davis.
Dillon a million times better than Hollins and D Davis. Q Davis would be a good PS guy.

< Message edited by kgdabom -- 7/31/2020 12:25:05 PM >


_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."
Post #: 2580
RE: General Vikes Talk - 7/31/2020 12:23:27 PM   
Pager


Posts: 10500
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

If Holmes is cut he will be considered a very bad 3rd rd pick. I think kicking the tires on Snacks or (if healthy) Timmy Jernigan might be better than keeping the sloth in Stephens.

Smith is probably cheaper than Gedeon(whom also wasn't a great selection) being it appears Wilson has supplanted him as the 3rd LB. I think they really like Dye to contribute this year.

Brandel should be a protected player on the PS



plus smith has three years left on his rookie deal - gedeon is in his last year...that said, i'd still keep gedeon over smith - he's more instinctive and physical - a thumper that's good against the run....

it wouldn't shock me if we let barr go next season - keep dye, wilson, kendricks and 2021 2nd/3rd round rookie....


I was curious about the salary cap implications of releasing Barr. I mean, I'm a huge fan of him, but I can see that perhaps we are not getting the best value for the huge bucks we are paying. Looking at it, it's clear that we can't cut him this season and even next year will be painful. (7.8 million in dead money) Without looking it up that's comparable to Reiff's contract and impact of cutting him this season. I guess it's possible, but it looks like to me unlikely if he continues to play at a solid, if not spectacular level of play.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/anthony-barr-14418/



Agreed - Kyle & Barr are in similar cap situations - savings might not be worth cutting unless we can replace the production with far cheaper options. Wilson will be URFA next year and might cost too much to be a net cap savings. Don't see Smith or Dye as replacements for Barr.

Reiff's cap situation is entirely different. He'd only have a 2.2M cap hit this year and next with 11M and 12M cap savings. 22.75M combined (20 & 21 season) cap savings. Comparing savings to dead money - it's entirely different than Kyle & Barr, imo.

< Message edited by Pager -- 7/31/2020 12:24:50 PM >


_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.
Post #: 2581
RE: General Vikes Talk - 7/31/2020 12:25:05 PM   
Bill Jandro

 

Posts: 17917
Joined: 8/13/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

If Holmes is cut he will be considered a very bad 3rd rd pick. I think kicking the tires on Snacks or (if healthy) Timmy Jernigan might be better than keeping the sloth in Stephens.

Smith is probably cheaper than Gedeon(whom also wasn't a great selection) being it appears Wilson has supplanted him as the 3rd LB. I think they really like Dye to contribute this year.

Brandel should be a protected player on the PS

I very much agree with you Bill. Except we should still keep Gedeon over Smith. I hated the selection of Smith the second we selected him and nothing has made me change my mind.
Regarding changing my mind you did see my explanation on the Jamal Adams thing right?

Yes. we're good

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 2582
RE: General Vikes Talk - 7/31/2020 12:25:44 PM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 33742
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

If Holmes is cut he will be considered a very bad 3rd rd pick. I think kicking the tires on Snacks or (if healthy) Timmy Jernigan might be better than keeping the sloth in Stephens.

Smith is probably cheaper than Gedeon(whom also wasn't a great selection) being it appears Wilson has supplanted him as the 3rd LB. I think they really like Dye to contribute this year.

Brandel should be a protected player on the PS

I very much agree with you Bill. Except we should still keep Gedeon over Smith. I hated the selection of Smith the second we selected him and nothing has made me change my mind.
Regarding changing my mind you did see my explanation on the Jamal Adams thing right?

Yes. we're good



_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."
Post #: 2583
RE: General Vikes Talk - 7/31/2020 12:28:49 PM   
ratoppenheimer


Posts: 9495
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

This makes sense to me. Normally I would say it's too early to do this speculation, but I post it anyway without much going on and I'm weary of the Covid issue with the players.

https://zonecoverage.com/2020/minnesota-vikings-news/minnesota-vikings-53-man-roster-projection-2-0/

I didn't like him having us cut Brandel and I sure didn't get him having Cameron Smith over Ben Gedeon. Other than that it makes sense.



no way on beebe, we need more speed/athleticism...beebe should move to the cfl....

tajae is probably a one-year rental - means we need to keep some younger players, now....

i'm not a huge fan of bibi johnson either - i see him staying, but not being extended - ever...keep young players....

this is our final roster of wr's: thielen, Jefferson, tajae, johnson, osborn, hollins - ps protected - davis....

Yes we shouldn't have Beebe and we shouldn't cut Dillon Mitchell. I decided not to nitpick.
I think if speed is what you want than we definitely have to get rid of Hollins and D Davis.
Dillon a million times better than Hollins and D Davis. Q Davis would be a good PS guy.



i did mean quartney, he's my 2020 favorite udfa....

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.
Post #: 2584
RE: General Vikes Talk - 7/31/2020 12:30:43 PM   
Bill Jandro

 

Posts: 17917
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

If Holmes is cut he will be considered a very bad 3rd rd pick. I think kicking the tires on Snacks or (if healthy) Timmy Jernigan might be better than keeping the sloth in Stephens.

Smith is probably cheaper than Gedeon(whom also wasn't a great selection) being it appears Wilson has supplanted him as the 3rd LB. I think they really like Dye to contribute this year.

Brandel should be a protected player on the PS



plus smith has three years left on his rookie deal - gedeon is in his last year...that said, i'd still keep gedeon over smith - he's more instinctive and physical - a thumper that's good against the run....

it wouldn't shock me if we let barr go next season - keep dye, wilson, kendricks and 2021 2nd/3rd round rookie....


I was curious about the salary cap implications of releasing Barr. I mean, I'm a huge fan of him, but I can see that perhaps we are not getting the best value for the huge bucks we are paying. Looking at it, it's clear that we can't cut him this season and even next year will be painful. (7.8 million in dead money) Without looking it up that's comparable to Reiff's contract and impact of cutting him this season. I guess it's possible, but it looks like to me unlikely if he continues to play at a solid, if not spectacular level of play.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/anthony-barr-14418/



Agreed - Kyle & Barr are in similar cap situations - savings might not be worth cutting unless we can replace the production with far cheaper options. Wilson will be URFA next year and might cost too much to be a net cap savings. Don't see Smith or Dye as replacements for Barr.

Reiff's cap situation is entirely different. He'd only have a 2.2M cap hit this year and next with 11M and 12M cap savings. 22.75M combined (20 & 21 season) cap savings. Comparing savings to dead money - it's entirely different than Kyle & Barr, imo.

As long as Zim is our HC Barr will be wearing purple.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 2585
RE: General Vikes Talk - 7/31/2020 12:35:52 PM   
ratoppenheimer


Posts: 9495
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

If Holmes is cut he will be considered a very bad 3rd rd pick. I think kicking the tires on Snacks or (if healthy) Timmy Jernigan might be better than keeping the sloth in Stephens.

Smith is probably cheaper than Gedeon(whom also wasn't a great selection) being it appears Wilson has supplanted him as the 3rd LB. I think they really like Dye to contribute this year.

Brandel should be a protected player on the PS



plus smith has three years left on his rookie deal - gedeon is in his last year...that said, i'd still keep gedeon over smith - he's more instinctive and physical - a thumper that's good against the run....

it wouldn't shock me if we let barr go next season - keep dye, wilson, kendricks and 2021 2nd/3rd round rookie....


I was curious about the salary cap implications of releasing Barr. I mean, I'm a huge fan of him, but I can see that perhaps we are not getting the best value for the huge bucks we are paying. Looking at it, it's clear that we can't cut him this season and even next year will be painful. (7.8 million in dead money) Without looking it up that's comparable to Reiff's contract and impact of cutting him this season. I guess it's possible, but it looks like to me unlikely if he continues to play at a solid, if not spectacular level of play.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/anthony-barr-14418/



Agreed - Kyle & Barr are in similar cap situations - savings might not be worth cutting unless we can replace the production with far cheaper options. Wilson will be URFA next year and might cost too much to be a net cap savings. Don't see Smith or Dye as replacements for Barr.

Reiff's cap situation is entirely different. He'd only have a 2.2M cap hit this year and next with 11M and 12M cap savings. 22.75M combined (20 & 21 season) cap savings. Comparing savings to dead money - it's entirely different than Kyle & Barr, imo.

As long as Zim is our HC Barr will be wearing purple.



you're right - dye is probably wilson's replacement next season...we'll draft a lb early next draft, too....

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.
Post #: 2586
RE: General Vikes Talk - 7/31/2020 12:40:45 PM   
Pager


Posts: 10500
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

If Holmes is cut he will be considered a very bad 3rd rd pick. I think kicking the tires on Snacks or (if healthy) Timmy Jernigan might be better than keeping the sloth in Stephens.

Smith is probably cheaper than Gedeon(whom also wasn't a great selection) being it appears Wilson has supplanted him as the 3rd LB. I think they really like Dye to contribute this year.

Brandel should be a protected player on the PS



Agreed - whiff on Holmes. Holmes was actually a 4th round pick, but it was one of the Spielman trade back specials. If I remember right, there were some guys on the board I really liked. I might have to look at the draft to refresh my memory.

Gedeon was a decent contributor. Its always great when solid gets pushed out the door.

This article was pretty safe. I don't think Beebe makes the roster. Thielan and Jefferson can man the slot and we're in two tight end packages much more than the average team. I like Hollins more at this point - and he got some PT down the stretch last yr.

Was surprised KGB was ok with Dillon not even making practice squad.

I think Abdullah makes roster unless we figure out a KR option - which might be harder with COVID. Still think Reiff is gone and potentially Elf.

No other big surprises to me.


I went back to check. Holmes was actually the second pick in the fourth round, so very similar to where Mattison was taken last year. Of course we have to agree that Mattison looks like a better selection than Holmes, right now. Anyway, when I looked at the names selected before Holmes nobody stood out, but I am not a great personnel on other teams guy. Maybe you see somebody here that would have been much better.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_NFL_Draft



Good stuff Bruce. I thought we traded back multiple times from the third rd. Looks like it was only once and not as far as I remember.

Cappa - was drafted in our spot and is a starting RG. 63 PFF score, 4 sacks allowed last year which was T-4th. Don't know that he'd be a fit in our scheme.

Philips is a borderline stud for Buffalo at DT. 83 PFF grade. Not sure if he is 3T or UT.

Mason Cole started at C as a rookie, lost his job, but is slated to start this year again.

Jordan Aikins TE looks like he's developing for Houston - 36 receptions for 418 receiving yards and two receiving touchdowns in 2019.

O'Daniel, Yiadom, Moore haven't done squat.

Ian Thomas TE is the guy I really liked. But he hasn't done much for the panthers.

Hindsight is 20 20 but IOL, TE, and DT might have helped our team.

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.
Post #: 2587
RE: General Vikes Talk - 7/31/2020 12:41:41 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
I was reading about Clarke because I think he is my favorite UDFA. Like Dantzler he he is lacking in being too thin, but again that can be addressed. That seems to be a common theme for the Vikings in the draft. They are looking for good size and athleticism because those can not be taught while lacking in the ideal NFL readiness for the physicality of the game.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?
Post #: 2588
RE: General Vikes Talk - 7/31/2020 1:26:46 PM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 33742
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

This makes sense to me. Normally I would say it's too early to do this speculation, but I post it anyway without much going on and I'm weary of the Covid issue with the players.

https://zonecoverage.com/2020/minnesota-vikings-news/minnesota-vikings-53-man-roster-projection-2-0/

I didn't like him having us cut Brandel and I sure didn't get him having Cameron Smith over Ben Gedeon. Other than that it makes sense.



no way on beebe, we need more speed/athleticism...beebe should move to the cfl....

tajae is probably a one-year rental - means we need to keep some younger players, now....

i'm not a huge fan of bibi johnson either - i see him staying, but not being extended - ever...keep young players....

this is our final roster of wr's: thielen, Jefferson, tajae, johnson, osborn, hollins - ps protected - davis....

Yes we shouldn't have Beebe and we shouldn't cut Dillon Mitchell. I decided not to nitpick.
I think if speed is what you want than we definitely have to get rid of Hollins and D Davis.
Dillon a million times better than Hollins and D Davis. Q Davis would be a good PS guy.



i did mean quartney, he's my 2020 favorite udfa....

I figured that you meant Quartney. Dillon still has a much better profile and Hollins IIRC is best timed by Sundial, but that might have been D Davis.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."
Post #: 2589
RE: General Vikes Talk - 7/31/2020 1:28:57 PM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 33742
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

If Holmes is cut he will be considered a very bad 3rd rd pick. I think kicking the tires on Snacks or (if healthy) Timmy Jernigan might be better than keeping the sloth in Stephens.

Smith is probably cheaper than Gedeon(whom also wasn't a great selection) being it appears Wilson has supplanted him as the 3rd LB. I think they really like Dye to contribute this year.

Brandel should be a protected player on the PS



plus smith has three years left on his rookie deal - gedeon is in his last year...that said, i'd still keep gedeon over smith - he's more instinctive and physical - a thumper that's good against the run....

it wouldn't shock me if we let barr go next season - keep dye, wilson, kendricks and 2021 2nd/3rd round rookie....


I was curious about the salary cap implications of releasing Barr. I mean, I'm a huge fan of him, but I can see that perhaps we are not getting the best value for the huge bucks we are paying. Looking at it, it's clear that we can't cut him this season and even next year will be painful. (7.8 million in dead money) Without looking it up that's comparable to Reiff's contract and impact of cutting him this season. I guess it's possible, but it looks like to me unlikely if he continues to play at a solid, if not spectacular level of play.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/anthony-barr-14418/



Agreed - Kyle & Barr are in similar cap situations - savings might not be worth cutting unless we can replace the production with far cheaper options. Wilson will be URFA next year and might cost too much to be a net cap savings. Don't see Smith or Dye as replacements for Barr.

Reiff's cap situation is entirely different. He'd only have a 2.2M cap hit this year and next with 11M and 12M cap savings. 22.75M combined (20 & 21 season) cap savings. Comparing savings to dead money - it's entirely different than Kyle & Barr, imo.

As long as Zim is our HC Barr will be wearing purple.

He sure does seem to love him. I think the cap savings needs to be more than $10 million before I would consider parting ways with Barr.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."
Post #: 2590
RE: General Vikes Talk - 7/31/2020 1:31:23 PM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 33742
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

If Holmes is cut he will be considered a very bad 3rd rd pick. I think kicking the tires on Snacks or (if healthy) Timmy Jernigan might be better than keeping the sloth in Stephens.

Smith is probably cheaper than Gedeon(whom also wasn't a great selection) being it appears Wilson has supplanted him as the 3rd LB. I think they really like Dye to contribute this year.

Brandel should be a protected player on the PS



Agreed - whiff on Holmes. Holmes was actually a 4th round pick, but it was one of the Spielman trade back specials. If I remember right, there were some guys on the board I really liked. I might have to look at the draft to refresh my memory.

Gedeon was a decent contributor. Its always great when solid gets pushed out the door.

This article was pretty safe. I don't think Beebe makes the roster. Thielan and Jefferson can man the slot and we're in two tight end packages much more than the average team. I like Hollins more at this point - and he got some PT down the stretch last yr.

Was surprised KGB was ok with Dillon not even making practice squad.

I think Abdullah makes roster unless we figure out a KR option - which might be harder with COVID. Still think Reiff is gone and potentially Elf.

No other big surprises to me.


I went back to check. Holmes was actually the second pick in the fourth round, so very similar to where Mattison was taken last year. Of course we have to agree that Mattison looks like a better selection than Holmes, right now. Anyway, when I looked at the names selected before Holmes nobody stood out, but I am not a great personnel on other teams guy. Maybe you see somebody here that would have been much better.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_NFL_Draft



Good stuff Bruce. I thought we traded back multiple times from the third rd. Looks like it was only once and not as far as I remember.

Cappa - was drafted in our spot and is a starting RG. 63 PFF score, 4 sacks allowed last year which was T-4th. Don't know that he'd be a fit in our scheme.

Philips is a borderline stud for Buffalo at DT. 83 PFF grade. Not sure if he is 3T or UT.

Mason Cole started at C as a rookie, lost his job, but is slated to start this year again.

Jordan Aikins TE looks like he's developing for Houston - 36 receptions for 418 receiving yards and two receiving touchdowns in 2019.

O'Daniel, Yiadom, Moore haven't done squat.

Ian Thomas TE is the guy I really liked. But he hasn't done much for the panthers.

Hindsight is 20 20 but IOL, TE, and DT might have helped our team.

I'm almost certain that Thomas would have been our pick if we hadn't traded back. We took Conklin out of panic the next round when we didn't get Thomas.

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Post #: 2591
RE: General Vikes Talk - 7/31/2020 1:53:06 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

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We do have a good track record of identifying diamonds in the rough at the d- line positions. Holmes will have the advantage this preseason of being a veteran and for sure he will do his best to compete. It doesn't look really great right now, but drafting in the middle rounds certainly has to be a crapshoot. Part of the attraction with Holmes was that he was perceived as being position flexible. Position flexible is another way of saying tweener. I'm not particularly a fan of drafting tweeners, but we do seem to utilize hybrid safeties and linemen and linebackers who seem to specialize in passing downs or rushing downs. One thing I like about position flexibility is that the defense can be more disguised.

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Post #: 2592
RE: General Vikes Talk - 7/31/2020 2:12:29 PM   
kgdabom

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

This makes sense to me. Normally I would say it's too early to do this speculation, but I post it anyway without much going on and I'm weary of the Covid issue with the players.

https://zonecoverage.com/2020/minnesota-vikings-news/minnesota-vikings-53-man-roster-projection-2-0/

I didn't like him having us cut Brandel and I sure didn't get him having Cameron Smith over Ben Gedeon. Other than that it makes sense.



no way on beebe, we need more speed/athleticism...beebe should move to the cfl....

tajae is probably a one-year rental - means we need to keep some younger players, now....

i'm not a huge fan of bibi johnson either - i see him staying, but not being extended - ever...keep young players....

this is our final roster of wr's: thielen, Jefferson, tajae, johnson, osborn, hollins - ps protected - davis....

Yes we shouldn't have Beebe and we shouldn't cut Dillon Mitchell. I decided not to nitpick.
I think if speed is what you want than we definitely have to get rid of Hollins and D Davis.
Dillon a million times better than Hollins and D Davis. Q Davis would be a good PS guy.



i did mean quartney, he's my 2020 favorite udfa....

I figured that you meant Quartney. Dillon still has a much better profile and Hollins IIRC is best timed by Sundial, but that might have been D Davis.

Hollins actually has adequate speed. Not good, but doesn't suck at 4.48. It was D Davis that was in the Treadwell area.
Edit: The 4:48 was a questionable pro day 40 time. Might be a lot slower really.

< Message edited by kgdabom -- 7/31/2020 2:20:08 PM >


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Post #: 2593
RE: General Vikes Talk - 7/31/2020 2:15:21 PM   
Bill Jandro

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

If Holmes is cut he will be considered a very bad 3rd rd pick. I think kicking the tires on Snacks or (if healthy) Timmy Jernigan might be better than keeping the sloth in Stephens.

Smith is probably cheaper than Gedeon(whom also wasn't a great selection) being it appears Wilson has supplanted him as the 3rd LB. I think they really like Dye to contribute this year.

Brandel should be a protected player on the PS



Agreed - whiff on Holmes. Holmes was actually a 4th round pick, but it was one of the Spielman trade back specials. If I remember right, there were some guys on the board I really liked. I might have to look at the draft to refresh my memory.

Gedeon was a decent contributor. Its always great when solid gets pushed out the door.

This article was pretty safe. I don't think Beebe makes the roster. Thielan and Jefferson can man the slot and we're in two tight end packages much more than the average team. I like Hollins more at this point - and he got some PT down the stretch last yr.

Was surprised KGB was ok with Dillon not even making practice squad.

I think Abdullah makes roster unless we figure out a KR option - which might be harder with COVID. Still think Reiff is gone and potentially Elf.

No other big surprises to me.


I went back to check. Holmes was actually the second pick in the fourth round, so very similar to where Mattison was taken last year. Of course we have to agree that Mattison looks like a better selection than Holmes, right now. Anyway, when I looked at the names selected before Holmes nobody stood out, but I am not a great personnel on other teams guy. Maybe you see somebody here that would have been much better.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_NFL_Draft



Good stuff Bruce. I thought we traded back multiple times from the third rd. Looks like it was only once and not as far as I remember.

Cappa - was drafted in our spot and is a starting RG. 63 PFF score, 4 sacks allowed last year which was T-4th. Don't know that he'd be a fit in our scheme.

Philips is a borderline stud for Buffalo at DT. 83 PFF grade. Not sure if he is 3T or UT.

Mason Cole started at C as a rookie, lost his job, but is slated to start this year again.

Jordan Aikins TE looks like he's developing for Houston - 36 receptions for 418 receiving yards and two receiving touchdowns in 2019.

O'Daniel, Yiadom, Moore haven't done squat.

Ian Thomas TE is the guy I really liked. But he hasn't done much for the panthers.

Hindsight is 20 20 but IOL, TE, and DT might have helped our team.

I'm almost certain that Thomas would have been our pick if we hadn't traded back. We took Conklin out of panic the next round when we didn't get Thomas.

I recall Spielman getting TE sniped a couple times that draft

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Post #: 2594
RE: General Vikes Talk - 7/31/2020 2:16:03 PM   
Bill Jandro

 

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Conklin is entering his 3rd season. He could surprise.

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Post #: 2595
RE: General Vikes Talk - 7/31/2020 2:26:57 PM   
kgdabom

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Conklin is entering his 3rd season. He could surprise.

I'm not saying he's certain to suck, but at draft time Thomas had a lot more going for him.

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Post #: 2596
RE: General Vikes Talk - 7/31/2020 3:29:41 PM   
kgdabom

 

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He's not a Viking, but he was last year so I'm posting it here.


JAYRON KEARSE
DB, DETROIT LIONS

NFL suspended Lions S Jayron Kearse three games for violating the league's substance-abuse policy.
Kearse was arrested for a DUI last October, leading to his suspension. He made 62 appearances with the Vikings the past three seasons, most recently recording 28 tackles on a career-high 270 (25%) defensive snaps. He'll be available to return in Week 4 at home against the Saints.

SOURCE: Aaron Wilson on Twitter
Jul 31, 2020, 3:52 PM ET

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Post #: 2597
RE: General Vikes Talk - 7/31/2020 4:25:41 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

He's not a Viking, but he was last year so I'm posting it here.


JAYRON KEARSE
DB, DETROIT LIONS

NFL suspended Lions S Jayron Kearse three games for violating the league's substance-abuse policy.
Kearse was arrested for a DUI last October, leading to his suspension. He made 62 appearances with the Vikings the past three seasons, most recently recording 28 tackles on a career-high 270 (25%) defensive snaps. He'll be available to return in Week 4 at home against the Saints.

SOURCE: Aaron Wilson on Twitter
Jul 31, 2020, 3:52 PM ET


Didn't he have issues involving suspension(s) in the past as a Viking?

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Post #: 2598
RE: General Vikes Talk - 7/31/2020 4:46:45 PM   
David Levine


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Ranking the NFL's top 25 prospects: Young players who could break out in 2020

Every year, Football Outsiders puts together a list of the NFL's best and brightest young players who have barely played. The overwhelming majority of draft-day discussion is about first-round picks, with a bit of discussion about guys who weren't first-rounders but should have been, particularly if they were quarterbacks.

This list is about the others.

1. Ifeadi Odenigbo, EDGE, Minnesota Vikings
Age: 26 | Draft: Pick 220 in 2017 | Career snaps: 375

With the Vikings parting with Everson Griffen, it's a pretty clean projection to assume that Odenigbo will be moving into the starting lineup. But in case you need a reassuring word from Vikings defensive line coach/co-coordinator Andre Patterson, he told Vikings reporters in a conference call: "I'm excited about Ifeadi to continue to improve as a player. He made great strides last year, and he's a tremendously hard worker. I know he's busting his tail right now. ... As a matter of fact, I have to talk to him about not overtraining."

Odenigbo's roots at Northwestern were as a power player with NFL pass-rush moves and flashes, but he was essentially platooned by the Wildcats. He led the Big Ten in sacks as a senior anyway, with 10, and ran a 4.72-second 40-yard dash at the combine. His performance in our SackSEER projection system was 62.7%, impressive for a low-round pick; Odenigbo had an explosion index of 0.61 and offered a lot of college production.

Over the last five games of last season, Odenigbo notched four of his seven sacks, forced a fumble and returned another fumble for a 56-yard touchdown. He brought down both Russell Wilson and Aaron Rodgers last season. He might still platoon with a different defender on pure run downs if that section of his game gets off to a poor start, but Odenigbo is on pace to become yet another late-round win on the edge for a Vikings team that already starts 2015 third-rounder Danielle Hunter.

9. Alexander Mattison, RB, Minnesota Vikings
Age: 22 | Draft: Pick 102 in 2019 | Career snaps: 197

Simply put: With Dalvin Cook holding out and on the verge of free agency, there are very few players with a better potential future situation than Mattison. Gary Kubiak's running backs have been putting up 1,000-yard seasons whether they are good or not since before Football Outsiders even existed. The Vikings picked Mattison in the third round despite a number of pundits not having that high of a grade on him, which suggests they hold him in quite high esteem.

Mattison, like Cook, had a pretty mediocre combine that ended with a faceplant on the 40-yard dash, with a time of just 4.67 seconds at 221 pounds. That's linebacker speed at defensive back size. But Mattison showed just about everything else you could want from a runner: physicality, quickness, vision and intelligence. It all led to massive production at Boise State, as Mattison even saw the field for all 13 games as a freshman.

In his first season in Minnesota, Mattison finished with a respectable 24 DYAR in 100 totes, despite a relatively low success rate of 38%. Mattison averaged 4.6 yards per attempt, with no real negative split when running zone plays, but SIS charting charged the Vikings with 11 blown blocks during those 100 attempts, and those 11 carries averaged minus-1.2 yards. With enough skill to be a competent receiver as well, the Vikings have the ultimate leverage against a Cook holdout: someone who can do the job just as well without a high price tag.

Methodology

This is the 14th anniversary of the list. We're still relying on the same things we always do: scouting, statistics, measurables, context, ceiling, expected role and what we hear from other sources. The goal is to bring your attention to players who are still developing in their second and third seasons, even after the draftniks have forgotten them. It's important to note that this list is not strictly about fantasy football (otherwise, there wouldn't be offensive linemen on it), and it's about career potential, not just the 2020 season.

Here's our full criteria:

Drafted in the third round or later, or signed as an undrafted free agent.

Entered the NFL between 2017 and 2019.

Fewer than 500 career offensive or defensive snaps (except running backs, who are allowed just 300 offensive snaps).

Have not signed a contract extension (players who have bounced around the league looking for the right spot, however, still qualify for the list).

Age 26 or younger in 2020.

You'll see a number of references to Football Outsiders stats on our list, in particular DVOA (defense-adjusted value over average), which takes every play and compares its success to the NFL average based on situation and opponent. You can read more about DVOA and other FO stats on this page. Many of the other stats, including quarterback hurries and blown blocks, come from Sports Info Solutions and can be found in our new book, Football Outsiders Almanac 2020.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/29526841/ranking-nfl-top-25-prospects-young-players-break-2020
Post #: 2599
RE: General Vikes Talk - 7/31/2020 4:53:05 PM   
joejitsu

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

If Holmes is cut he will be considered a very bad 3rd rd pick. I think kicking the tires on Snacks or (if healthy) Timmy Jernigan might be better than keeping the sloth in Stephens.

Smith is probably cheaper than Gedeon(whom also wasn't a great selection) being it appears Wilson has supplanted him as the 3rd LB. I think they really like Dye to contribute this year.

Brandel should be a protected player on the PS



plus smith has three years left on his rookie deal - gedeon is in his last year...that said, i'd still keep gedeon over smith - he's more instinctive and physical - a thumper that's good against the run....

it wouldn't shock me if we let barr go next season - keep dye, wilson, kendricks and 2021 2nd/3rd round rookie....


I was curious about the salary cap implications of releasing Barr. I mean, I'm a huge fan of him, but I can see that perhaps we are not getting the best value for the huge bucks we are paying. Looking at it, it's clear that we can't cut him this season and even next year will be painful. (7.8 million in dead money) Without looking it up that's comparable to Reiff's contract and impact of cutting him this season. I guess it's possible, but it looks like to me unlikely if he continues to play at a solid, if not spectacular level of play.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/minnesota-vikings/anthony-barr-14418/



Agreed - Kyle & Barr are in similar cap situations - savings might not be worth cutting unless we can replace the production with far cheaper options. Wilson will be URFA next year and might cost too much to be a net cap savings. Don't see Smith or Dye as replacements for Barr.

Reiff's cap situation is entirely different. He'd only have a 2.2M cap hit this year and next with 11M and 12M cap savings. 22.75M combined (20 & 21 season) cap savings. Comparing savings to dead money - it's entirely different than Kyle & Barr, imo.

As long as Zim is our HC Barr will be wearing purple.


I agree. He runs a lot of our scheme through Barr. I wish he would use him more to blitz than to play coverage, but that's his decision.
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