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RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/12/2020 6:21:11 PM

kgdabom

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PlayerProfiler.com is so freaking awesome.

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/12/2020 6:23:43 PM

Bruce Johnson

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It seems to me that Udoh is a better fit for tackle with his long arms. (especially right tackle) There's nothing wrong with having three good tackles. Backups often are often called upon to play.

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/12/2020 6:34:29 PM

kgdabom

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

This does not seem to be describing Cleveland.

Guards will generally have a little stockier build than a tackle. The ideal size would be in the 6-3 to 6-5 range and weigh 305 to 320 pounds. While a tackle has to be a pass blocker first, a guard has to be a run blocker. In many of the defensive schemes in the NFL, the defensive tackles are huge men that are run stoppers first. Because of that, a guard has to be a powerful man who can get off the ball quickly and explode into his opponent. When looking at a lineman’s explosion, you look for natural hip roll. A player who has that has good balance, keeps his weight well distributed and can snap his hips on contact while keeping his back straight. If the player is top heavy or doesn’t have that natural bend and explosion he will lose leverage and fall off the block.

While in many cases you look for a guard to be a dominant run blocker, he still has to have pass block skills. The difference is he doesn’t have to be as rangy or athletic as a tackle. Tackles on many occasions only have help on the inside but a guard has help on both sides. Because of the size and power of defensive tackles, he also has to have good natural bend and anchor. When he sinks his hips in pass pro he has to be able to hold his ground. An offensive lineman who can’t anchor will more often than not get pushed back to the quarterback.

Another trait a guard needs to have in many offenses is the ability to pull. He has to be able to get out of his stance, turn, run and adjust on the move to a moving target. This requires very good body control, so a good degree of athleticism is a must. In some zone-blocking schemes that don’t pull you can get by with a little less athlete.

https://nationalfootballpost.com/scouting-the-offensive-line/#:~:text=You%20want%20your%20tackles%20to,have%20to%20have%20good%20bend.

Cleveland has good burst score which is important and good bench strength. Due to his other attributes he seems like an even better fit at Tackle.
https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/ezra-cleveland-stats/

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/12/2020 6:34:58 PM

unome

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

Udoh has great mass combined with great speed. Per Einstein MassxSpeed=Force.
Udoh's problem is agility. It's hard to him to adjust when he needs to.
I think it was Einstein.

The fact that degrees of force are called Newtons helps give you your answer. Newton's Second Law.

Oh, and technically it's acceleration and not speed, but you are using them interchangeably.

< Message edited by unome -- 8/12/2020 6:37:32 PM >

Post #: 2879

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/12/2020 6:43:07 PM

kgdabom

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quote:

ORIGINAL: unome

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

Udoh has great mass combined with great speed. Per Einstein MassxSpeed=Force.
Udoh's problem is agility. It's hard to him to adjust when he needs to.
I think it was Einstein.

The fact that degrees of force are called Newtons helps give you your answer. Newton's Second Law.

Oh, and technically it's acceleration and not speed, but you are using them interchangeably.

Yeah I got them a little mixed up. Newton was a pretty smart guy too. I wonder why it took an apple falling on his head for him to figure out gravity?

Should have been a fig.

< Message edited by kgdabom -- 8/12/2020 6:44:28 PM >

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/12/2020 6:45:23 PM

kgdabom

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

It seems to me that Udoh is a better fit for tackle with his long arms. (especially right tackle) There's nothing wrong with having three good tackles. Backups often are often called upon to play.

I like his mass x acceleration for the guard position.

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/12/2020 6:59:27 PM

joejitsu

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As long as we find an improvement for the Elf, I’ll be happy. He can’t play dead right now.

Post #: 2882

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/12/2020 8:10:11 PM

Pager

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

Arm length

Udoh (35 ⅜")

Ezra 33 3⁄8 in

ONeil 34 1⁄8 in

EDIT: I don't have the time/energy to look up RAS scores.

Arm length yes. Speed, technique and agility are not in the same class as O'Neill and Cleveland is my understanding.

Based on?

Watching how clumsy he looks in pass blocking. Based on scouting reports for him, Cleveland and O'Neill.
RAS score Cleveland 9.3 Udoh 8.1. O'neill's 9.0.

Clumsy? Udoh looked damn good against Chicago. Where did you watch him look clumsy? Experience will also impact your agility scores. If I remember right ONeil & Ezra have been playing football a lot longer with Udoh starting more recent. My Jr year in High School was the first time I was timed for agility. My senior year - I just about doubled the number of box side-jumps I could in the same time. You build that muscle memory and get better at it.

What's the average RAS score for average RT? 8.1 is a very good score. Leave it to you to post a RAS 8.1 and call the guy clumsy all at the same time.

What's Reiff's RAS score. I'll eat crow if it's higher than Udoh.

EDIT: 5.92.

< Message edited by Pager -- 8/12/2020 8:13:12 PM >

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Post #: 2883

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/12/2020 9:12:20 PM

kgdabom

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

Arm length

Udoh (35 ⅜")

Ezra 33 3⁄8 in

ONeil 34 1⁄8 in

EDIT: I don't have the time/energy to look up RAS scores.

Arm length yes. Speed, technique and agility are not in the same class as O'Neill and Cleveland is my understanding.

Based on?

Watching how clumsy he looks in pass blocking. Based on scouting reports for him, Cleveland and O'Neill.
RAS score Cleveland 9.3 Udoh 8.1. O'neill's 9.0.

Clumsy? Udoh looked damn good against Chicago. Where did you watch him look clumsy? Experience will also impact your agility scores. If I remember right ONeil & Ezra have been playing football a lot longer with Udoh starting more recent. My Jr year in High School was the first time I was timed for agility. My senior year - I just about doubled the number of box side-jumps I could in the same time. You build that muscle memory and get better at it.

What's the average RAS score for average RT? 8.1 is a very good score. Leave it to you to post a RAS 8.1 and call the guy clumsy all at the same time.

What's Reiff's RAS score. I'll eat crow if it's higher than Udoh.

EDIT: 5.92.

It was video from all star games and camp. He was huge and often dwarfed the defender, but his movement to either side was awkward. I'm sure with coaching he got better and he will continue to get better. 8.1 is a very good score, but we want guys like Cleveland and O'Neill to play the tackles the athletic freaks. I'm a big fan of Udoh. I'm not a believer in having him be a tackle and moving Cleveland to guard. I don't particularly care about Reiff's RAS score.

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Post #: 2884

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/12/2020 10:35:17 PM

Bruce Johnson

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: unome

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

Udoh has great mass combined with great speed. Per Einstein MassxSpeed=Force.
Udoh's problem is agility. It's hard to him to adjust when he needs to.
I think it was Einstein.

The fact that degrees of force are called Newtons helps give you your answer. Newton's Second Law.

Oh, and technically it's acceleration and not speed, but you are using them interchangeably.

Yeah I got them a little mixed up. Newton was a pretty smart guy too. I wonder why it took an apple falling on his head for him to figure out gravity?
Should have been a fig.

Newton invented calculus, so he was no slouch. I found this on the topic of replacing acceleration with velocity.

https://howthingsfly.si.edu/ask-an-explainer/what-difference-between-fma-and-pmv

I guess there is some sense to finding the five best players on the offense line and I do like the idea of players practicing at different positions. That might especially come in handy for a backup who can come in at a number of places along the line in the event of an injury.

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We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 2885

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/12/2020 10:47:58 PM

Bruce Johnson

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It seems that the CB lineup is also up in the air and the team will try to find the best combination.

#Vikings co-DC Adam Zimmer said Mike Hughes won't necessarily be the slot man just because of his experience at the spot. "Mike has done a good job in the past (at slot) and also has played well outside.'' Jeff Gladney also will be looked at.

Chris Tomasson

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We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 2886

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/12/2020 10:52:49 PM

Bruce Johnson

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And the team is also trying to figure out the best combination along the defensive line. That is more situational, though. Stephen may be the guy for nose, but he will be off the field on third downs.

https://thevikingage.com/2020/08/12/leader-minnesota-vikings-nose-tackle/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

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We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 2887

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/12/2020 11:05:55 PM

Bruce Johnson

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The #Cowboys are adding a big-time pass-rusher, signing former #Vikings DE Everson Griffen, sources tell me, @TomPelissero and @SlaterNFL. With Minnesota for a decade, Griffen now heads to Dallas. A surprise.

Ian Rapoport

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We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/13/2020 12:10:42 AM

kgdabom

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

It seems that the CB lineup is also up in the air and the team will try to find the best combination.

#Vikings co-DC Adam Zimmer said Mike Hughes won't necessarily be the slot man just because of his experience at the spot. "Mike has done a good job in the past (at slot) and also has played well outside.'' Jeff Gladney also will be looked at.

Chris Tomasson

No mention of Dantzler. Interesting.

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Post #: 2889

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/13/2020 12:13:11 AM

kgdabom

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Joined: 7/29/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

The #Cowboys are adding a big-time pass-rusher, signing former #Vikings DE Everson Griffen, sources tell me, @TomPelissero and @SlaterNFL. With Minnesota for a decade, Griffen now heads to Dallas. A surprise.

Ian Rapoport

Crap! I was really hoping we could sign him. I'm guessing it's for $5 million a year or less. Now off to see if I can find the details.
I just missed it by $1 million. 6 Million just one year.

EVERSON GRIFFEN
DL, DALLAS COWBOYS

Cowboys signed DE Everson Griffen, formerly of the Vikings, to a one-year, $6 million contract.
Dallas is replacing a couple of big pieces on defense this year, and Griffen will be partly responsible in filling the void. Multiple teams expressed interest in Griffen this offseason, but waited until training camp to sign. He'll have to go through standard coronavirus testing before practicing, although he'll still have a few weeks with his new team before starting in the season opener. Griffen has at least 8.0 sacks in each of his last five healthy seasons and should be in line for another strong season alongside DE Demarcus Lawrence, DT Gerald McCoy, and DT Dontari Poe. The Cowboys have one of the best rosters in football.

RELATED: Minnesota Vikings
SOURCE: Ian Rapoport on Twitter
Aug 12, 2020, 8:59 PM ET

< Message edited by kgdabom -- 8/13/2020 12:16:36 AM >

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Post #: 2890

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/13/2020 3:12:08 AM

Todd M

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I could see us facing Dallas in the NFCCG.

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/13/2020 4:17:48 AM

Bruce Johnson

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I can see us beating Dallas in the NFCCG.

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We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 2892

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/13/2020 7:40:16 AM

Bruce Johnson

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Interesting question and answer.

https://zonecoverage.com/2020/minnesota-vikings-news/has-riley-reiff-lived-up-to-his-contract-with-the-minnesota-vikings/

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 2893

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/13/2020 8:34:10 AM

Bruce Johnson

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- 353 Tackles
- 74.5 Sacks (7th in franchise history)
- 2 Interceptions
- 9 Forced Fumbles (8th in franchise history)
- 6 Fumble Recoveries
- 1 irreplaceable personality

Thank you for the incredible memories, @EversonGriffen. #SKOL

Purple Post on Twitter

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 2894

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/13/2020 9:11:50 AM

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9718
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: online

.
.
fyi...i just downloaded the nfl gamepass app onto my amazon firestick via amazon prime - now i can watch vikings' games on gamepass right on my television...ps: i also downloaded the vikings' app, so i can watch the practice this monday - it's going to be shown live....

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Post #: 2895

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/13/2020 10:00:14 AM

kgdabom

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Joined: 7/29/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
fyi...i just downloaded the nfl gamepass app onto my amazon firestick via amazon prime - now i can watch vikings' games on gamepass right on my television...ps: i also downloaded the vikings' app, so i can watch the practice this monday - it's going to be shown live....

Good for you. Vikings app and watching the practice is free right?

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 2896

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/13/2020 10:10:31 AM

Pager

Posts: 10574
Joined: 7/19/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

Arm length

Udoh (35 ⅜")

Ezra 33 3⁄8 in

ONeil 34 1⁄8 in

EDIT: I don't have the time/energy to look up RAS scores.

Arm length yes. Speed, technique and agility are not in the same class as O'Neill and Cleveland is my understanding.

Based on?

Watching how clumsy he looks in pass blocking. Based on scouting reports for him, Cleveland and O'Neill.
RAS score Cleveland 9.3 Udoh 8.1. O'neill's 9.0.

Clumsy? Udoh looked damn good against Chicago. Where did you watch him look clumsy? Experience will also impact your agility scores. If I remember right ONeil & Ezra have been playing football a lot longer with Udoh starting more recent. My Jr year in High School was the first time I was timed for agility. My senior year - I just about doubled the number of box side-jumps I could in the same time. You build that muscle memory and get better at it.

What's the average RAS score for average RT? 8.1 is a very good score. Leave it to you to post a RAS 8.1 and call the guy clumsy all at the same time.

What's Reiff's RAS score. I'll eat crow if it's higher than Udoh.

EDIT: 5.92.

It was video from all star games and camp. He was huge and often dwarfed the defender, but his movement to either side was awkward. I'm sure with coaching he got better and he will continue to get better. 8.1 is a very good score, but we want guys like Cleveland and O'Neill to play the tackles the athletic freaks. I'm a big fan of Udoh. I'm not a believer in having him be a tackle and moving Cleveland to guard. I don't particularly care about Reiff's RAS score.

Can you post links for camps/all-star games? I'm calling BS on the looking clumsy claim. Udoh was invited to the Shrine game. His practice play was impressive enough to be invited to the Senior Bowl and a chance to participate in the NFL combine. https://www.wfmynews2.com/article/sports/football/elons-oli-udoh-selected-by-minnesota-vikings-in-2019-nfl-draft/83-90c2b977-22fd-41e1-8b7c-a72cc8ee8b03

Athletic scores are not the end all be all of a guy developing into an exceptional player/above average player. That was the point of posting Reif's number. Nor are physical attributes - where Udoh has better T measurables than Ezra/Brian.

If either Ezra or Udoh is in a position to improve the oline at any position (including moving ONeil to LT) it'd be foolish for it not to be looked at. Get the best 5 out there.

< Message edited by Pager -- 8/13/2020 10:17:21 AM >

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Post #: 2897

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/13/2020 10:17:49 AM

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9718
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
fyi...i just downloaded the nfl gamepass app onto my amazon firestick via amazon prime - now i can watch vikings' games on gamepass right on my television...ps: i also downloaded the vikings' app, so i can watch the practice this monday - it's going to be shown live....

Good for you. Vikings app and watching the practice is free right?

yes, free...it should be available on the vikings app, or vikings.com...i don't know the time yet....

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.

Post #: 2898

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/13/2020 10:27:37 AM

kgdabom

Posts: 33795
Joined: 7/29/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

Arm length

Udoh (35 ⅜")

Ezra 33 3⁄8 in

ONeil 34 1⁄8 in

EDIT: I don't have the time/energy to look up RAS scores.

Arm length yes. Speed, technique and agility are not in the same class as O'Neill and Cleveland is my understanding.

Based on?

Watching how clumsy he looks in pass blocking. Based on scouting reports for him, Cleveland and O'Neill.
RAS score Cleveland 9.3 Udoh 8.1. O'neill's 9.0.

Clumsy? Udoh looked damn good against Chicago. Where did you watch him look clumsy? Experience will also impact your agility scores. If I remember right ONeil & Ezra have been playing football a lot longer with Udoh starting more recent. My Jr year in High School was the first time I was timed for agility. My senior year - I just about doubled the number of box side-jumps I could in the same time. You build that muscle memory and get better at it.

What's the average RAS score for average RT? 8.1 is a very good score. Leave it to you to post a RAS 8.1 and call the guy clumsy all at the same time.

What's Reiff's RAS score. I'll eat crow if it's higher than Udoh.

EDIT: 5.92.

It was video from all star games and camp. He was huge and often dwarfed the defender, but his movement to either side was awkward. I'm sure with coaching he got better and he will continue to get better. 8.1 is a very good score, but we want guys like Cleveland and O'Neill to play the tackles the athletic freaks. I'm a big fan of Udoh. I'm not a believer in having him be a tackle and moving Cleveland to guard. I don't particularly care about Reiff's RAS score.

Can you post links for camps/all-star games? I'm calling BS on the looking clumsy claim. Udoh was invited to the Shrine game. His practice play was impressive enough to be invited to the Senior Bowl and a chance to participate in the NFL combine. https://www.wfmynews2.com/article/sports/football/elons-oli-udoh-selected-by-minnesota-vikings-in-2019-nfl-draft/83-90c2b977-22fd-41e1-8b7c-a72cc8ee8b03

Athletic scores are not the end all be all of a guy developing into an exceptional player/above average player. That was the point of posting Reif's number. Nor are physical attributes - where Udoh has better T measurables than Ezra/Brian.

If either Ezra or Udoh is in a position to improve the oline at any position (including moving ONeil to LT) it'd be foolish for it not to be looked at. Get the best 5 out there.

Nope I'm not going to post the links. I don't know how to find them. I remember seeing them and to me he looked clumsy. No change of direction or adjustment to the defender. On simple straight ahead charge at the defender he was good. Extremely raw as they say. I like him. We drafted him based on potential and hopefully we can help him reach his highest potential. Indications are that he played pretty well week 17 last year. I still think he is not the kind of player we are looking for at Tackle based on the prototypes of O'Neill and Cleveland. Time will tell.

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/13/2020 11:53:08 AM

Pager

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