RE: General Vikes Talk

Talk Vikes and Other MN Sports

Forums Register Login My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums

Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ Ticket List Log Out

RE: General Vikes Talk

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [The Minnesota Vikings] >> Vikes Talk >> RE: General Vikes Talk

Page: << < prev 113 114 [115] 116 117 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/12/2020 8:54:41 AM

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9718
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline

.
.

Sean Borman@SeanBormanNFL
Ezra Cleveland getting snaps at LG - photo from #Vikings.com

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.

Post #: 2851

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/12/2020 9:01:15 AM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 18003
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

The loss of Pierce and apparently signing no legit replacement for him has me much less confident about this season. My honest expectation has dropped from 10-6 to 8-8.

TBH I'm not sure Pierce is a dedicated football player. He has trouble keeping his weight under control and opted out almost immediately. This has all the to familiar of a look of a guy that just wanted to get paid but not strive to be great. I know he has an excuse but his chances of catching the virus playing football are less than him going about his daily life. He may well eat himself out of football by taking the year off.

I think we have a couple guy's in Jaleel Johnson and Jaylon Holmes that have been in the system and are due to step up. watts is also certainly in the mix. Lynch may need a red shirt year. I don't think Hall was the answer even if he had passed his physical. Don't count out hercules either.

Why don't you think Lynch can step in and get some reps?

The shortened practices certainly factor in and there's also Zim's tendency to not use rookies unless they're early picks.

However, watts did get some snaps last year as a rookie and with pierce opting out there is a chance Lynch could see the field if there are some injuries.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 2852

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/12/2020 9:03:46 AM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 18003
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.

Sean Borman@SeanBormanNFL
Ezra Cleveland getting snaps at LG - photo from #Vikings.com

The starting 5 I think that could be a long term answer from left to right

O'Neal
Cleveland
Bradbury
Samia
Udoh

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 2853

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/12/2020 9:48:54 AM

kgdabom

Posts: 33795
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

The loss of Pierce and apparently signing no legit replacement for him has me much less confident about this season. My honest expectation has dropped from 10-6 to 8-8.

TBH I'm not sure Pierce is a dedicated football player. He has trouble keeping his weight under control and opted out almost immediately. This has all the to familiar of a look of a guy that just wanted to get paid but not strive to be great. I know he has an excuse but his chances of catching the virus playing football are less than him going about his daily life. He may well eat himself out of football by taking the year off.

I think we have a couple guy's in Jaleel Johnson and Jaylon Holmes that have been in the system and are due to step up. watts is also certainly in the mix. Lynch may need a red shirt year. I don't think Hall was the answer even if he had passed his physical. Don't count out hercules either.

Why don't you think Lynch can step in and get some reps?

IMO Lynch is going to be great and will get meaningful snaps this season. However, it won't be at Nose Tackle. He's 293 pounds.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 2854

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/12/2020 9:50:38 AM

kgdabom

Posts: 33795
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.

Sean Borman@SeanBormanNFL
Ezra Cleveland getting snaps at LG - photo from #Vikings.com

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 2855

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/12/2020 9:51:54 AM

kgdabom

Posts: 33795
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

The loss of Pierce and apparently signing no legit replacement for him has me much less confident about this season. My honest expectation has dropped from 10-6 to 8-8.

TBH I'm not sure Pierce is a dedicated football player. He has trouble keeping his weight under control and opted out almost immediately. This has all the to familiar of a look of a guy that just wanted to get paid but not strive to be great. I know he has an excuse but his chances of catching the virus playing football are less than him going about his daily life. He may well eat himself out of football by taking the year off.

I think we have a couple guy's in Jaleel Johnson and Jaylon Holmes that have been in the system and are due to step up. watts is also certainly in the mix. Lynch may need a red shirt year. I don't think Hall was the answer even if he had passed his physical. Don't count out hercules either.

Why don't you think Lynch can step in and get some reps?

The shortened practices certainly factor in and there's also Zim's tendency to not use rookies unless they're early picks.

However, watts did get some snaps last year as a rookie and with pierce opting out there is a chance Lynch could see the field if there are some injuries.

My prediction is that Lynch will be a significant part of our defense regardless of injuries.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 2856

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/12/2020 9:53:40 AM

kgdabom

Posts: 33795
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.

Sean Borman@SeanBormanNFL
Ezra Cleveland getting snaps at LG - photo from #Vikings.com

The starting 5 I think that could be a long term answer from left to right

O'Neal
Cleveland
Bradbury
Samia
Udoh

So you have O'Neill at left tackle and Cleveland at Left guard? I don't like that. O'Neill is already a good RT. Why mess with success. Cleveland has been playing superb LT for the last is it 4 years. Keep him at tackle. Cleveland, Udoh, Bradbury, Samia, O'Neill is my very strong preference.

< Message edited by kgdabom -- 8/12/2020 10:03:05 AM >

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 2857

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/12/2020 10:02:39 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 29986
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

The loss of Pierce and apparently signing no legit replacement for him has me much less confident about this season. My honest expectation has dropped from 10-6 to 8-8.

TBH I'm not sure Pierce is a dedicated football player. He has trouble keeping his weight under control and opted out almost immediately. This has all the to familiar of a look of a guy that just wanted to get paid but not strive to be great. I know he has an excuse but his chances of catching the virus playing football are less than him going about his daily life. He may well eat himself out of football by taking the year off.

I think we have a couple guy's in Jaleel Johnson and Jaylon Holmes that have been in the system and are due to step up. watts is also certainly in the mix. Lynch may need a red shirt year. I don't think Hall was the answer even if he had passed his physical. Don't count out hercules either.

By taking a pay cut of around 25 times his salary?

Post #: 2858

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/12/2020 10:03:51 AM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 18003
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.

Sean Borman@SeanBormanNFL
Ezra Cleveland getting snaps at LG - photo from #Vikings.com

The starting 5 I think that could be a long term answer from left to right

O'Neal
Cleveland
Bradbury
Samia
Udoh

So you have O'Neill at left tackle and Cleveland at Left guard? I hate that. Cleveland, Udoh, Bradbury, Samia, O'Neill is my very strong preference.

According to what I've read Udoh is strickly a RT. I think O'Neal is the best olineman we have so I'd put him in the most imporrtant position.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 2859

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/12/2020 10:10:17 AM

kgdabom

Posts: 33795
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.

Sean Borman@SeanBormanNFL
Ezra Cleveland getting snaps at LG - photo from #Vikings.com

The starting 5 I think that could be a long term answer from left to right

O'Neal
Cleveland
Bradbury
Samia
Udoh

So you have O'Neill at left tackle and Cleveland at Left guard? I hate that. Cleveland, Udoh, Bradbury, Samia, O'Neill is my very strong preference.

According to what I've read Udoh is strickly a RT. I think O'Neal is the best olineman we have so I'd put him in the most imporrtant position.

O'Neill is the best RT we have. Moving him to LT from all I hear would be like him trying to learn to wipe his ass with his left hand. Horrible Idea IMO. Where did you hear that Udoh is strictly a RT? Maybe he would have the same difficulty making the switch that O'Neill would. Did Udoh play RT in the Bears game last year? Who played LT? Cleveland is a LT. Keep him in the position he knows. He is IMO favorable to O'Neill for LT based on experience and attributes.

< Message edited by kgdabom -- 8/12/2020 10:11:44 AM >

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 2860

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/12/2020 11:52:05 AM

DeLain

Posts: 3485
Joined: 7/17/2007
From: BFE, WA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Check out this catch by Jefferson at practice.

https://twitter.com/b_heintzz/status/1292875251806855170?s=20

Nice grab. I read it was Browning throwing the crappy pass.

Here is the whole highlight reel:
https://twitter.com/i/status/1293029227189673985

Post #: 2861

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/12/2020 12:08:05 PM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 18003
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.

Sean Borman@SeanBormanNFL
Ezra Cleveland getting snaps at LG - photo from #Vikings.com

The starting 5 I think that could be a long term answer from left to right

O'Neal
Cleveland
Bradbury
Samia
Udoh

So you have O'Neill at left tackle and Cleveland at Left guard? I hate that. Cleveland, Udoh, Bradbury, Samia, O'Neill is my very strong preference.

According to what I've read Udoh is strickly a RT. I think O'Neal is the best olineman we have so I'd put him in the most imporrtant position.

O'Neill is the best RT we have. Moving him to LT from all I hear would be like him trying to learn to wipe his ass with his left hand. Horrible Idea IMO. Where did you hear that Udoh is strictly a RT? Maybe he would have the same difficulty making the switch that O'Neill would. Did Udoh play RT in the Bears game last year? Who played LT? Cleveland is a LT. Keep him in the position he knows. He is IMO favorable to O'Neill for LT based on experience and attributes.

O'Neal played LT in college. Udoh played RT. Yes Udoh played RT in the Bears game and more or less stymied an uninterested kahlil Mack. At times he owned him.

I want to get the five best guys out there but they need to be competent at the position they're playing. If Udoh is a RT I see no reason not to move an uber talented O'Neal to a position he knows and has played before. Moving Udoh to LG(somewhat of a raw prospect to begin with) may yield Elf-like results.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 2862

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/12/2020 12:29:53 PM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 18003
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

The problem right now might be Udoh having tested positive for the Covid but is due to come off the covid list any day.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 2863

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/12/2020 3:36:01 PM

Pager

Posts: 10574
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

We are potentially T rich with 3 guys I like a lot. It's pretty common for a T to start at RT then move to LT (and I found several instances of All Pros in the last 20 years - college TE to RT to LT). I've always thought ONeil would be the LT of the future until we drafted Ezra. But if Ezra becomes a stud LG, I'm ok with it. Udoh, for the senior bowl, practiced and started at RG.

I like Bill's projected lineup. I just want a top 15 oline in both pass and run blocking. Especially pass blocking in obv situations/straight drop back. Too many weak links for too many years.

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.

Post #: 2864

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/12/2020 3:36:44 PM

kgdabom

Posts: 33795
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.

Sean Borman@SeanBormanNFL
Ezra Cleveland getting snaps at LG - photo from #Vikings.com

The starting 5 I think that could be a long term answer from left to right

O'Neal
Cleveland
Bradbury
Samia
Udoh

So you have O'Neill at left tackle and Cleveland at Left guard? I hate that. Cleveland, Udoh, Bradbury, Samia, O'Neill is my very strong preference.

According to what I've read Udoh is strickly a RT. I think O'Neal is the best olineman we have so I'd put him in the most imporrtant position.

O'Neill is the best RT we have. Moving him to LT from all I hear would be like him trying to learn to wipe his ass with his left hand. Horrible Idea IMO. Where did you hear that Udoh is strictly a RT? Maybe he would have the same difficulty making the switch that O'Neill would. Did Udoh play RT in the Bears game last year? Who played LT? Cleveland is a LT. Keep him in the position he knows. He is IMO favorable to O'Neill for LT based on experience and attributes.

O'Neal played LT in college. Udoh played RT. Yes Udoh played RT in the Bears game and more or less stymied an uninterested kahlil Mack. At times he owned him.

I want to get the five best guys out there but they need to be competent at the position they're playing. If Udoh is a RT I see no reason not to move an uber talented O'Neal to a position he knows and has played before. Moving Udoh to LG(somewhat of a raw prospect to begin with) may yield Elf-like results.

I hear what you're saying. Players can learn new positions so maybe O'Neill could be a good LT, but we already know he's a good RT. Cleveland is almost a clone of O'Neill. He has the traits and the experience we want at LT. Moving him a to a guard to me is a bad idea. Udoh does not have the traits we drafted O'Neill and Cleveland for. He has IMO better guard traits. He'll have to learn guard unless he wants to be a backup IMO.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 2865

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/12/2020 3:38:10 PM

Pager

Posts: 10574
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.

Sean Borman@SeanBormanNFL
Ezra Cleveland getting snaps at LG - photo from #Vikings.com

The starting 5 I think that could be a long term answer from left to right

O'Neal
Cleveland
Bradbury
Samia
Udoh

So you have O'Neill at left tackle and Cleveland at Left guard? I hate that. Cleveland, Udoh, Bradbury, Samia, O'Neill is my very strong preference.

According to what I've read Udoh is strickly a RT. I think O'Neal is the best olineman we have so I'd put him in the most imporrtant position.

O'Neill is the best RT we have. Moving him to LT from all I hear would be like him trying to learn to wipe his ass with his left hand. Horrible Idea IMO. Where did you hear that Udoh is strictly a RT? Maybe he would have the same difficulty making the switch that O'Neill would. Did Udoh play RT in the Bears game last year? Who played LT? Cleveland is a LT. Keep him in the position he knows. He is IMO favorable to O'Neill for LT based on experience and attributes.

O'Neal played LT in college. Udoh played RT. Yes Udoh played RT in the Bears game and more or less stymied an uninterested kahlil Mack. At times he owned him.

I want to get the five best guys out there but they need to be competent at the position they're playing. If Udoh is a RT I see no reason not to move an uber talented O'Neal to a position he knows and has played before. Moving Udoh to LG(somewhat of a raw prospect to begin with) may yield Elf-like results.

I hear what you're saying. Players can learn new positions so maybe O'Neill could be a good LT, but we already know he's a good RT. Cleveland is almost a clone of O'Neill. He has the traits and the experience we want at LT. Moving him a to a guard to me is a bad idea. Udoh does not have the traits we drafted O'Neill and Cleveland for. He has IMO better guard traits. He'll have to learn guard unless he wants to be a backup IMO.

What? Without looking it up, he has longer arms than Ezra and probably ONeil. He is very athletic.

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.

Post #: 2866

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/12/2020 3:42:12 PM

Pager

Posts: 10574
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

Arm length

Udoh (35 ⅜")

Ezra 33 3⁄8 in

ONeil 34 1⁄8 in

EDIT: I don't have the time/energy to look up RAS scores.

< Message edited by Pager -- 8/12/2020 3:43:26 PM >

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.

Post #: 2867

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/12/2020 3:46:26 PM

kgdabom

Posts: 33795
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

Arm length

Udoh (35 ⅜")

Ezra 33 3⁄8 in

ONeil 34 1⁄8 in

EDIT: I don't have the time/energy to look up RAS scores.

Arm length yes. Speed, technique and agility are not in the same class as O'Neill and Cleveland is my understanding.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 2868

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/12/2020 3:46:44 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 29986
Status: offline

It's ok if a G has longer arms. We need to move past "Stumpy, fire-hydrant limbs" and "Works well in a phone booth" for today's offenses. Getting to the second level and protection on roll-outs are just two areas where his attributes can help.

Post #: 2869

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/12/2020 4:54:13 PM

Pager

Posts: 10574
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

Arm length

Udoh (35 ⅜")

Ezra 33 3⁄8 in

ONeil 34 1⁄8 in

EDIT: I don't have the time/energy to look up RAS scores.

Arm length yes. Speed, technique and agility are not in the same class as O'Neill and Cleveland is my understanding.

Based on?

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.

Post #: 2870

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/12/2020 5:33:07 PM

kgdabom

Posts: 33795
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

Arm length

Udoh (35 ⅜")

Ezra 33 3⁄8 in

ONeil 34 1⁄8 in

EDIT: I don't have the time/energy to look up RAS scores.

Arm length yes. Speed, technique and agility are not in the same class as O'Neill and Cleveland is my understanding.

Based on?

Watching how clumsy he looks in pass blocking. Based on scouting reports for him, Cleveland and O'Neill.
RAS score Cleveland 9.3 Udoh 8.1. O'neill's 9.0.

< Message edited by kgdabom -- 8/12/2020 5:36:34 PM >

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 2871

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/12/2020 5:42:07 PM

kgdabom

Posts: 33795
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

here's a player profile ranking players by measurables.
https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/ezra-cleveland-stats/
https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/brian-oneill/
https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/oli-udoh/

All players were very fast. O'Neill the fastest in his class The top 0% for the 40 yard dash.A group of one. Cleveland top 4% and Udoh top 15%
O'Neill and Cleveland were superior to Udoh in just about everything but size. Udoh is in the bottom 18% for agility.
O'Neill was in the top 1% agility and Cleveland in the top 2%.
Cleveland was far superior on the bench to the other two, but that can partially be attributed to his shorter arms.

Hinton was as good or better than anybody, but #s were not combine #s so take with a grain of salt.
https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/kyle-hinton/

< Message edited by kgdabom -- 8/12/2020 6:06:18 PM >

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 2872

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/12/2020 5:44:05 PM

Bruce Johnson

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

This does not seem to be describing Cleveland.

Guards will generally have a little stockier build than a tackle. The ideal size would be in the 6-3 to 6-5 range and weigh 305 to 320 pounds. While a tackle has to be a pass blocker first, a guard has to be a run blocker. In many of the defensive schemes in the NFL, the defensive tackles are huge men that are run stoppers first. Because of that, a guard has to be a powerful man who can get off the ball quickly and explode into his opponent. When looking at a lineman’s explosion, you look for natural hip roll. A player who has that has good balance, keeps his weight well distributed and can snap his hips on contact while keeping his back straight. If the player is top heavy or doesn’t have that natural bend and explosion he will lose leverage and fall off the block.

While in many cases you look for a guard to be a dominant run blocker, he still has to have pass block skills. The difference is he doesn’t have to be as rangy or athletic as a tackle. Tackles on many occasions only have help on the inside but a guard has help on both sides. Because of the size and power of defensive tackles, he also has to have good natural bend and anchor. When he sinks his hips in pass pro he has to be able to hold his ground. An offensive lineman who can’t anchor will more often than not get pushed back to the quarterback.

Another trait a guard needs to have in many offenses is the ability to pull. He has to be able to get out of his stance, turn, run and adjust on the move to a moving target. This requires very good body control, so a good degree of athleticism is a must. In some zone-blocking schemes that don’t pull you can get by with a little less athlete.

https://nationalfootballpost.com/scouting-the-offensive-line/#:~:text=You%20want%20your%20tackles%20to,have%20to%20have%20good%20bend.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 2873

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/12/2020 6:15:35 PM

Bruce Johnson

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

We all get to watch the practice on Monday, it seems.

https://www.dailynorseman.com/2020/8/12/21365687/minnesota-vikings-broadcast-mondays-training-camp-practice-live?utm_campaign=dailynorseman&utm_content=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 2874

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/12/2020 6:18:33 PM

kgdabom

Posts: 33795
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

Udoh has great mass combined with great speed. Per Einstein MassxSpeed=Force.
Udoh's problem is agility. It's hard to him to adjust when he needs to.
I think it was Einstein.