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RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/13/2020 12:40:53 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 29986
Status: offline

While Udoh is prototypical for a right tackle, he could also be moved inside to left guard, where his size and length would make it difficult for any defensive tackle to get past him. A move inside to left guard for Udoh may sound like it’s coming from left field, but there is actually a good, comparable precedent for such a move: Kelechi Osemele.

Osemele was drafted out of Iowa State by the Ravens back in 2012. He’s basically the same size and length as Udoh, but somewhat less athletic according to his Combine results. He was probably ahead of Udoh in his development, but still had issues to clean up, and hadn’t faced the toughest competition at Iowa St either.

In any case, he started at right tackle for the Ravens his rookie year in 2012, but was moved to left guard for the Ravens’ playoff run. They won the Super Bowl that year. The following year he continued at left guard, but his season was cut short as he needed back surgery after 7 games.

In 2014, the Ravens hired Gary Kubiak as their new offensive coordinator, and installed his offensive scheme. In his first full season at LG, and first in Kubiak’s scheme, Osemele had the 4th best pass blocking efficiency in the league among guards with at least 100 snaps, and was 6th best in run blocking grade, according to PFF. He continued to be a top 5 guard in both run blocking and pass protection the next couple seasons, and made All-Pro in 2016.

With Gary Kubiak now offensive coordinator for the Vikings, and Rick Dennison offensive line coach, I doubt Udoh’s comparison with Osemele is lost on them. In fact, given their plan to try to bring in Trent Williams, along with the recognized weakness at guard in this year’s draft, and reports of potentially releasing or demoting Pat Elflein, it may be that Udoh is in their plans at left guard.

Size, strength, quick feet, balance, and good awareness/recognition are key qualities in a guard. Udoh has the first four, but probably needs more experience to develop the last a bit more - although he is smart and that will likely come in time.

Having a big, strong presence inside could do wonders for the Vikings offensive line. First, it could cut down on the inside pressures Kirk Cousins has faced the last couple years, and secondly could bolster the Vikings inside running game - and take some of the opposing defense’s focus off the outside zone game. It would also make it less exploitable for teams moving their best pass rushers inside.

Post #: 2901

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/13/2020 12:56:47 PM

kgdabom

Posts: 33795
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

Sorry Pager. I like him, but he's far from a nimble guy. His technique needs a lot of refinement.

< Message edited by kgdabom -- 8/13/2020 12:58:37 PM >

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 2902

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/13/2020 1:03:59 PM 1 votes

Pager

Posts: 10574
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

Sorry Pager. I like him, but he's far from a nimble guy. His technique needs a lot of refinement.

Captain Obvious - universally acknowledged that he is raw - pretty astounding that he improved enough to play enough against Mack the finale and held his own (even taking meaningless game into account). I trust your assessments about as well as my nephew's and he's eight. Plus you are never wrong (worse kind of combo). Well you're wrong as much as the next guy. Just never admit it.

< Message edited by Pager -- 8/13/2020 1:06:21 PM >

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Left picking up the pieces.

Post #: 2903

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/13/2020 1:52:43 PM

kgdabom

Posts: 33795
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

Sorry Pager. I like him, but he's far from a nimble guy. His technique needs a lot of refinement.

Captain Obvious - universally acknowledged that he is raw - pretty astounding that he improved enough to play enough against Mack the finale and held his own (even taking meaningless game into account). I trust your assessments about as well as my nephew's and he's eight. Plus you are never wrong (worse kind of combo). Well you're wrong as much as the next guy. Just never admit it.

I never think I'm wrong duh. If I thought I was wrong then I wouldn't think what I'm wrong about. I'm proud that you trust my opinion as much as you do your nephews.

If you think I have a negative opinion of Udoh, I can let you know right now you're wrong about that. I think Highly of Udoh.

< Message edited by kgdabom -- 8/13/2020 1:54:38 PM >

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 2904

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/13/2020 2:08:23 PM

Pager

Posts: 10574
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

Truly rationale people, when presented with information that conflicts with their opinions, allow their opinions to evolve.

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.

Post #: 2905

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/13/2020 2:36:30 PM 1 votes

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 29986
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

Truly rationale people, when presented with information that conflicts with their opinions, allow their opinions to evolve.

His SOLE objective is to be right. Nothing else. Hell, he's still yammering about Dillon Mitchell. He is as bad as or worse than Marty was with David Boston and Bernardo Harris.

Post #: 2906

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/13/2020 3:28:55 PM

Bruce Johnson

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

The #Vikings have activated Oli Udoh from Reserve/COVID-19 and waived LB DeMarquis Gates.

Minnesota Vikings on Twitter

It was not a good sign for Gates when the Vikings picked up the ex-Dolphin LB.

< Message edited by Bruce Johnson -- 8/13/2020 3:30:50 PM >

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 2907

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/13/2020 3:33:15 PM

Bruce Johnson

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

Per Yahoo Sports:

The Seahawks reportedly cut rookie cornerback Kemah Siverand for sneaking in a female guest into the team hotel.
The woman was wearing Seahawks gear to try and disguise herself as a player.

The players must be agonizing in ways not talked about.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 2908

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/13/2020 3:35:35 PM

Bruce Johnson

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Joined: 8/27/2007
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Udoh was the last player on the Covid list for the Vikings. (per Courtney Cronin)

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 2909

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/13/2020 3:40:53 PM

Bruce Johnson

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Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

I think Everson Griffen had a great season, but I've mentioned his dropoff in the back end a few times. One way to look at it

Weeks 1-12: 5th in pressures per game
Weeks 13-17: 60th in pressures per game

(Arif on Twitter)

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 2910

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/13/2020 4:11:42 PM

kgdabom

Posts: 33795
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

Truly rationale people, when presented with information that conflicts with their opinions, allow their opinions to evolve.

I'm not getting what you want Pager. I'm in agreement with you that Udoh is pretty good. We are in agreement that he doesn't have the best of technique. It's like you think we disagree about something we don't disagree about.
I can't believe my currently existing opinion is wrong. It's not possible.
Did you provide me evidence that should cause me to change by mind about Udoh being a nimble guy? Run it by me again and I will reconsider.

< Message edited by kgdabom -- 8/13/2020 4:19:53 PM >

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 2911

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/13/2020 4:15:39 PM

kgdabom

Posts: 33795
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I think Everson Griffen had a great season, but I've mentioned his dropoff in the back end a few times. One way to look at it

Weeks 1-12: 5th in pressures per game
Weeks 13-17: 60th in pressures per game

(Arif on Twitter)

He didn't play week 17 right?
So 75% of his season he was incredible at getting pressure and 25% he was average. IIRC he was also quite good in the playoff game against the Saints.
My best guess is he is still pretty good and we will miss him.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 2912

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/13/2020 4:17:16 PM

kgdabom

Posts: 33795
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Udoh was the last player on the Covid list for the Vikings. (per Courtney Cronin)

So far so good for the Vikings and keeping the COVID under control. Do we still have any staff in quarantine? Sugarman perhaps?

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 2913

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/13/2020 4:21:12 PM

kgdabom

Posts: 33795
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Per Yahoo Sports:

The Seahawks reportedly cut rookie cornerback Kemah Siverand for sneaking in a female guest into the team hotel.
The woman was wearing Seahawks gear to try and disguise herself as a player.

The players must be agonizing in ways not talked about.

I wonder if they would have cut Russell Wilson if he was sneaking a girl in.

No I really don't.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 2914

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/13/2020 5:03:36 PM 1 votes

Tom Sykes

Posts: 6034
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

Sorry Pager. I like him, but he's far from a nimble guy. His technique needs a lot of refinement.

Captain Obvious - universally acknowledged that he is raw - pretty astounding that he improved enough to play enough against Mack the finale and held his own (even taking meaningless game into account). I trust your assessments about as well as my nephew's and he's eight. Plus you are never wrong (worse kind of combo). Well you're wrong as much as the next guy. Just never admit it.

I never think I'm wrong duh. If I thought I was wrong then I wouldn't think what I'm wrong about. I'm proud that you trust my opinion as much as you do your nephews. If you think I have a negative opinion of Udoh, I can let you know right now you're wrong about that. I think Highly of Udoh.

Captain Oblivious. I have never interacted with anyone more in favor of burning, looting and killing the truth.

Post #: 2915

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/13/2020 5:08:10 PM

Tom Sykes

Posts: 6034
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I think Everson Griffen had a great season, but I've mentioned his dropoff in the back end a few times. One way to look at it

Weeks 1-12: 5th in pressures per game
Weeks 13-17: 60th in pressures per game

(Arif on Twitter)

He will help the Cowboys and if nothing else probably make some plays against us Thanksgiving week.

Post #: 2916

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/13/2020 5:20:00 PM

Bruce Johnson

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I think Everson Griffen had a great season, but I've mentioned his dropoff in the back end a few times. One way to look at it

Weeks 1-12: 5th in pressures per game
Weeks 13-17: 60th in pressures per game

(Arif on Twitter)

He didn't play week 17 right?
So 75% of his season he was incredible at getting pressure and 25% he was average. IIRC he was also quite good in the playoff game against the Saints.
My best guess is he is still pretty good and we will miss him.

I'm repeating myself, but I'm inclined to part with aging players sooner than later, especially if they want big bucks. It's a young man's game.

I do believe Griffen would benefit from being a situational player rather than a starter.

< Message edited by Bruce Johnson -- 8/13/2020 5:21:17 PM >

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 2917

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/13/2020 5:21:18 PM

kgdabom

Posts: 33795
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

Sorry Pager. I like him, but he's far from a nimble guy. His technique needs a lot of refinement.

Captain Obvious - universally acknowledged that he is raw - pretty astounding that he improved enough to play enough against Mack the finale and held his own (even taking meaningless game into account). I trust your assessments about as well as my nephew's and he's eight. Plus you are never wrong (worse kind of combo). Well you're wrong as much as the next guy. Just never admit it.

I never think I'm wrong duh. If I thought I was wrong then I wouldn't think what I'm wrong about. I'm proud that you trust my opinion as much as you do your nephews. If you think I have a negative opinion of Udoh, I can let you know right now you're wrong about that. I think Highly of Udoh.

Captain Oblivious. I have never interacted with anyone more in favor of burning, looting and killing the truth.

What the hell are you talking about Tom. I'm simply discussing Udoh being nimble or not with Pager and you felt the need to attack me like that. I know we disagreed on something in the stupid COVID/Politics thread which is what it became. Does this have to do with that because I'm certainly not looting, burning or killing any truth here.

< Message edited by kgdabom -- 8/13/2020 5:31:25 PM >

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 2918

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/13/2020 5:47:24 PM

kgdabom

Posts: 33795
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I think Everson Griffen had a great season, but I've mentioned his dropoff in the back end a few times. One way to look at it

Weeks 1-12: 5th in pressures per game
Weeks 13-17: 60th in pressures per game

(Arif on Twitter)

He didn't play week 17 right?
So 75% of his season he was incredible at getting pressure and 25% he was average. IIRC he was also quite good in the playoff game against the Saints.
My best guess is he is still pretty good and we will miss him.

I'm repeating myself, but I'm inclined to part with aging players sooner than later, especially if they want big bucks. It's a young man's game.

I do believe Griffen would benefit from being a situational player rather than a starter.

You Bruce are an ageist. In sports that's not always a bad thing to be. However, I have made a living in fantasy sports by drafting older players that slide way too far in drafts because people tend to think they are too old at least a year or two before they are too old.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 2919

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/13/2020 6:17:42 PM

Bruce Johnson

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I think Everson Griffen had a great season, but I've mentioned his dropoff in the back end a few times. One way to look at it

Weeks 1-12: 5th in pressures per game
Weeks 13-17: 60th in pressures per game

(Arif on Twitter)

He didn't play week 17 right?
So 75% of his season he was incredible at getting pressure and 25% he was average. IIRC he was also quite good in the playoff game against the Saints.
My best guess is he is still pretty good and we will miss him.

I'm repeating myself, but I'm inclined to part with aging players sooner than later, especially if they want big bucks. It's a young man's game.

I do believe Griffen would benefit from being a situational player rather than a starter.

You Bruce are an ageist. In sports that's not always a bad thing to be. However, I have made a living in fantasy sports by drafting older players that slide way too far in drafts because people tend to think they are too old at least a year or two before they are too old.

Teams do have to watch their salary cap dollars more than usual.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 2920

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/13/2020 6:37:08 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 29986
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

Truly rationale people, when presented with information that conflicts with their opinions, allow their opinions to evolve.

I'm not getting what you want Pager. I'm in agreement with you that Udoh is pretty good. We are in agreement that he doesn't have the best of technique. It's like you think we disagree about something we don't disagree about.
I can't believe my currently existing opinion is wrong. It's not possible.
Did you provide me evidence that should cause me to change by mind about Udoh being a nimble guy? Run it by me again and I will reconsider.

And away we go.............

Post #: 2921

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/13/2020 6:37:44 PM

kgdabom

Posts: 33795
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

I think Everson Griffen had a great season, but I've mentioned his dropoff in the back end a few times. One way to look at it

Weeks 1-12: 5th in pressures per game
Weeks 13-17: 60th in pressures per game

(Arif on Twitter)

He didn't play week 17 right?
So 75% of his season he was incredible at getting pressure and 25% he was average. IIRC he was also quite good in the playoff game against the Saints.
My best guess is he is still pretty good and we will miss him.

I'm repeating myself, but I'm inclined to part with aging players sooner than later, especially if they want big bucks. It's a young man's game.

I do believe Griffen would benefit from being a situational player rather than a starter.

You Bruce are an ageist. In sports that's not always a bad thing to be. However, I have made a living in fantasy sports by drafting older players that slide way too far in drafts because people tend to think they are too old at least a year or two before they are too old.

Teams do have to watch their salary cap dollars more than usual.

I'm very pro owner when it comes to salaries paid to players. I want the players signed for the lowest possible amount. Probably because I'm jealous of players getting paid Millions to play a game and then whining about how much they're paid. It really doesn't matter much because in the end most teams will pay up to the cap or very close to it. I originally heard that Griffen signed for $6 million. I later heard it's actually $3 million plus incentives that could make it $6 million. IMO a very team friendly contract for as talented a player as Griffen is.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 2922

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/13/2020 6:39:14 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 29986
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

Sorry Pager. I like him, but he's far from a nimble guy. His technique needs a lot of refinement.

Captain Obvious - universally acknowledged that he is raw - pretty astounding that he improved enough to play enough against Mack the finale and held his own (even taking meaningless game into account). I trust your assessments about as well as my nephew's and he's eight. Plus you are never wrong (worse kind of combo). Well you're wrong as much as the next guy. Just never admit it.

I never think I'm wrong duh. If I thought I was wrong then I wouldn't think what I'm wrong about. I'm proud that you trust my opinion as much as you do your nephews. If you think I have a negative opinion of Udoh, I can let you know right now you're wrong about that. I think Highly of Udoh.

Captain Oblivious. I have never interacted with anyone more in favor of burning, looting and killing the truth.

He argues for arguments sake just to wear people out so he can be right.

Post #: 2923

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/13/2020 6:43:34 PM

kgdabom

Posts: 33795
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

Sorry Pager. I like him, but he's far from a nimble guy. His technique needs a lot of refinement.

Captain Obvious - universally acknowledged that he is raw - pretty astounding that he improved enough to play enough against Mack the finale and held his own (even taking meaningless game into account). I trust your assessments about as well as my nephew's and he's eight. Plus you are never wrong (worse kind of combo). Well you're wrong as much as the next guy. Just never admit it.

I never think I'm wrong duh. If I thought I was wrong then I wouldn't think what I'm wrong about. I'm proud that you trust my opinion as much as you do your nephews. If you think I have a negative opinion of Udoh, I can let you know right now you're wrong about that. I think Highly of Udoh.

Captain Oblivious. I have never interacted with anyone more in favor of burning, looting and killing the truth.

He argues for arguments sake just to wear people out so he can be right.

Sure Bill. I do like discussing for sure. Arguing not so much. Right now I'm trying to figure out what Pager and I differ about regarding Udoh.

< Message edited by kgdabom -- 8/13/2020 6:47:44 PM >

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 2924

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/13/2020 6:55:10 PM

joejitsu

Posts: 15700
Joined: 3/21/2010
From: 60411
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Per Yahoo Sports:

The Seahawks reportedly cut rookie cornerback Kemah Siverand for sneaking in a female guest into the team hotel.
The woman was wearing Seahawks gear to try and disguise herself as a player.

The players must be agonizing in ways not talked about.

That's the funniest thing I've read today. Awesome.

Post #: 2925