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RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/26/2020 11:01:57 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 29986
Status: offline

At this point - I would go Reiff, BEST of All the rest, Bradbury, Udoh, Oneill.

One does NOT replace Elf in his "comfort zone" at RG.

I've advocated Udoh to G for a while. Big, strong, moves a bit. He has flaws and is inexperienced, but it's not like our alternatives are a bunch of Randall McDaniels.

Post #: 3351

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/26/2020 11:07:43 AM

Bruce Johnson

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

A tragic situation got even worse for Mack Alexander.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/bengals-alexander-arrested-amid-search-for-missing-father/ar-BB18oglq?li=BBnb7Kz

My initial reaction was that he was a suspect in his father's disappearance, but of course he wasn't there.

Me too.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 3352

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/26/2020 11:27:57 AM

thebigo

Posts: 28304
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

During Monday’s 1-on-1 sessions, the lineman who stood out the most was second-year right tackle Oli Udoh. Working against players like Eddie Yarbrough, Kenny Willekes, and Stacy Keely, Udoh arguably won every single one of his reps. He demonstrated great footwork, hand placement, and strength in keeping his opponent from getting to the little orange cone that represents the quarterback.

It’s been a strong camp for Udoh overall, and this was one of his best days. He’s firmly entrenched as the backup right tackle behind Brian O’Neill at the moment, but if Udoh continues to play at such a high level, the Vikings may want to figure out a way to get him onto the field going forward.
Not much of a surprise that Udoh can handle the likes of Yarbrough, Willekes and Keely without problem when he handled Khalil Mack without much problem week 17 last season. What is surprising is that the Vikings haven’t found a way to place him among their top five starters.

We can harp on what Udoh's winning at the expense of Yarbrough, Willekes, and Keely means, or just say the real winner was the little orange cone.

I read that they also kicked Reiff to LG for a few reps - and it didn't look good (small sample size).

The bigger issue isn't the author (Bruce posted links - this was from SI or Wulford) it's the overall information we're getting on the oline. Stephen and JJ have been winning reps against our guards. Stephen has like a career .000001% pressure rate. How are our guards going to hold up against Hicks and the rest of the DTs we have to face?

Ezra has been demoted to 3rd string LG - too many technique issues. We should be keeping him at LT and putting Udoh at RG. Udoh has at least practiced and played in the Senior Bowl there.

Bradbury hasn't stood out and it looks like the talk on Collins & Samia was just hype.

At this point - I would go Reiff, BEST of All the rest, Bradbury, Udoh, Oneill.

We're running out of time before the opener to get this figured out.

I wonder if the two rep switch between Reiff and Cleveland is more an indication that Clevelands switch to left guard isn't looking good.

Post #: 3353

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/26/2020 11:38:38 AM

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9720
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

During Monday’s 1-on-1 sessions, the lineman who stood out the most was second-year right tackle Oli Udoh. Working against players like Eddie Yarbrough, Kenny Willekes, and Stacy Keely, Udoh arguably won every single one of his reps. He demonstrated great footwork, hand placement, and strength in keeping his opponent from getting to the little orange cone that represents the quarterback.

It’s been a strong camp for Udoh overall, and this was one of his best days. He’s firmly entrenched as the backup right tackle behind Brian O’Neill at the moment, but if Udoh continues to play at such a high level, the Vikings may want to figure out a way to get him onto the field going forward.
Not much of a surprise that Udoh can handle the likes of Yarbrough, Willekes and Keely without problem when he handled Khalil Mack without much problem week 17 last season. What is surprising is that the Vikings haven’t found a way to place him among their top five starters.

We can harp on what Udoh's winning at the expense of Yarbrough, Willekes, and Keely means, or just say the real winner was the little orange cone.

I read that they also kicked Reiff to LG for a few reps - and it didn't look good (small sample size).

The bigger issue isn't the author (Bruce posted links - this was from SI or Wulford) it's the overall information we're getting on the oline. Stephen and JJ have been winning reps against our guards. Stephen has like a career .000001% pressure rate. How are our guards going to hold up against Hicks and the rest of the DTs we have to face?

Ezra has been demoted to 3rd string LG - too many technique issues. We should be keeping him at LT and putting Udoh at RG. Udoh has at least practiced and played in the Senior Bowl there.

Bradbury hasn't stood out and it looks like the talk on Collins & Samia was just hype.

At this point - I would go Reiff, BEST of All the rest, Bradbury, Udoh, Oneill.

We're running out of time before the opener to get this figured out.

I wonder if the two rep switch between Reiff and Cleveland is more an indication that Clevelands switch to left guard isn't looking good.

cleveland is a tackle - leave him there....
this season work on developing him to start next year - don't phuck up his athleticism/body by playing him at guard....
how about getting a real starting guard to play guard?
what about these guys...ron leary, larry warford, jamon brown...josh kline?

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.

Post #: 3354

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/26/2020 12:30:40 PM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 18003
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

A tragic situation got even worse for Mack Alexander.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/bengals-alexander-arrested-amid-search-for-missing-father/ar-BB18oglq?li=BBnb7Kz

My initial reaction was that he was a suspect in his father's disappearance, but of course he wasn't there.

Me too.

IMO Mack was justified in roughing up the ahole that abandoned his father.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 3355

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/26/2020 12:33:01 PM

Pager

Posts: 10574
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

At this point - I would go Reiff, BEST of All the rest, Bradbury, Udoh, Oneill.

One does NOT replace Elf in his "comfort zone" at RG.

I've advocated Udoh to G for a while. Big, strong, moves a bit. He has flaws and is inexperienced, but it's not like our alternatives are a bunch of Randall McDaniels.

Really unhappy with the oline decision making. I know it's a shortened pre-season but it doesn't feel like they had a plan other than Dozier and Elf and see what happens. Plan A for Ezra, start at guard but once apparent he couldn't challenge for the starting LG position move him back to LT. Let him compete for that role. If he can supplant Reiff - we save 23M and I'd rather resign Cook, Harris, sign a DT/G to a one year deal than have Reiff. Honestly if you said we could sign a run stuffing DT, possibly a G, and explore resigning Cook/Harris - I would still cut Reiff today. Hill/Ezra can handle LT.

If Udoh never had a chance to start at Tackle - which is obviously the case with Reiff and Oneill not moving, then he should have started at RG. Him being on COVID list didn't help at all.

Are Collins/Dozier that much better than Jones. Jones was pretty decent in NY. Our run blocking might suffer a little but our pass protection would be a lot better.

Stoopid.

< Message edited by Pager -- 8/26/2020 12:36:04 PM >

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.

Post #: 3356

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/26/2020 1:49:44 PM

Bruce Johnson

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Joined: 8/27/2007
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I'm with you guys with the status of the offensive line. It's not just you and me, but some of the voices on Twitter that I follow such as Ludford who are also dismayed by the apparent direction that the team is taking.

It's still preseason and during this time it's a time for evaluation and development of young talent. I remember a few years ago that Alex Boone looked like he was penciled in as a starter, but was waived on cut down day. So I'm waiting a bit nervously, but hopefully that the coaching staff will make the right decision in time.

I do believe that Cleveland needs to focus on LT. If he's not ready to start, (that's what I predicted) then he should be a back up at tackle. I want to see Udoh find a way to get on the field. He was one of my favorite draft picks from a year ago and I believe he is ready to start. He is the kind of player that will get better as the season progresses. I heard that it was a mistake that Elflein was put at LG last year. I really don't know what level he is at on the right side. I don't know who could replace him as a starter, but I am open to finding that player via free agency. That's what I'm hearing from you all here and I agree, but I am also saying that I am not there at the practices and if I was I wouldn't know enough to make the call anyway. So I am hoping on top of hope that wisdom prevails and the right decisions are made.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 3357

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/26/2020 2:02:23 PM

Bill Jandro

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Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

Spielman just seems to really undervalue the G position. kind of ironic that it seems to turn around and bite him in the ass every season yet he continues to throw very limited resources at the position.

I think I'd be more inclined to just start Clev LG and Udoh RG right now. Full reps with practices that remain.

Everyone on the planet except Spielman seems to know that Dozier and Elf will be the coffin nails to yet another failed season.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 3358

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/26/2020 2:27:12 PM

Brad H

Posts: 23960
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: online

Perhaps some of you upset with the offensive line should take a trip down memory lane back to draft day when I was critical of the organization's attention to the offensive line. Very few came to my defense over that three days of the year.

Once again our upper brass has overlooked the failing engine and instead opted to replace the tires. Some things never seem to change. Like the myopia of Vikings fans on draft day when we select mediocre defensive ends and defensive tackles in round four rather than addressing pressing needs.

< Message edited by Brad H -- 8/26/2020 2:31:47 PM >

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!

Post #: 3359

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/26/2020 3:12:52 PM 1 votes

McMurfy

Posts: 13792
Joined: 7/31/2007
From: Portland, Oregon
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

Perhaps some of you upset with the offensive line should take a trip down memory lane back to draft day when I was critical of the organization's attention to the offensive line. Very few came to my defense over that three days of the year.

Once again our upper brass has overlooked the failing engine and instead opted to replace the tires. Some things never seem to change. Like the myopia of Vikings fans on draft day when we select mediocre defensive ends and defensive tackles in round four rather than addressing pressing needs.

Perhaps The board is usually too slow to give you credit, because we’re always busy reading you giving yourself credit.

_____________________________

The Curse of Mauer is gone!

Post #: 3360

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/26/2020 3:53:12 PM 1 votes

unome

Posts: 985
Joined: 5/7/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

Perhaps some of you upset with the offensive line should take a trip down memory lane back to draft day when I was critical of the organization's attention to the offensive line. Very few came to my defense over that three days of the year.

Once again our upper brass has overlooked the failing engine and instead opted to replace the tires. Some things never seem to change. Like the myopia of Vikings fans on draft day when we select mediocre defensive ends and defensive tackles in round four rather than addressing pressing needs.

Yes, you are an amazing football mind. You literally posted this after a Bill Jandro post that has the signature "Oline...early and often this draft", so it was hardly an idea that had not occurred to anyone else. But this offseason was absolutely dire for an offensive lineman picked after the first day coming in and making an impact this year. They could not work in person with other lineman during most of the offseason. They could not be coached on technique much. They could not get in and work daily with NFL strength coaches.

And we drafted two cornerbacks in the first two days of the draft so you would have thought Mr. "Defense starts at the Corners" would be happy, but you'd be wrong.

Post #: 3361

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/26/2020 4:01:03 PM

TJSweens

Posts: 45462
Joined: 7/16/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: McMurfy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

Perhaps some of you upset with the offensive line should take a trip down memory lane back to draft day when I was critical of the organization's attention to the offensive line. Very few came to my defense over that three days of the year.

Once again our upper brass has overlooked the failing engine and instead opted to replace the tires. Some things never seem to change. Like the myopia of Vikings fans on draft day when we select mediocre defensive ends and defensive tackles in round four rather than addressing pressing needs.

Perhaps The board is usually too slow to give you credit, because we’re always busy reading you giving yourself credit.

He's kind of got that Jeff Allen quality of saying he was the only one calling for it.

I remember rooting for the Vikings to trade up in the first round to draft the Tristan Wirfs. I don't make a big deal out of it because there was no shortage of people who wanted the Vikings to move up for one of the top O-linemen because there were few real good ones and the deepest position in the draft was WR.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 3362

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/26/2020 5:11:54 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 29986
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

Perhaps some of you upset with the offensive line should take a trip down memory lane back to draft day when I was critical of the organization's attention to the offensive line. Very few came to my defense over that three days of the year.

Once again our upper brass has overlooked the failing engine and instead opted to replace the tires. Some things never seem to change. Like the myopia of Vikings fans on draft day when we select mediocre defensive ends and defensive tackles in round four rather than addressing pressing needs.

Yet in the "2020 Draft, Positions Only" thread, EVERY participant wanted an OL with either the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd pick with the average being the 2nd pick.

Strangely, you didn't participate. Maybe going on record ahead of time is a bit too revealing.

Post #: 3363

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/26/2020 5:17:40 PM

Bill Jandro

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Joined: 8/13/2007
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I do agree with Brad that we have ignored the oline for a decade and build from the outside in.

But bringing up the Peterson vs Ben Grubbs draft doesn't hold much water. One is a first ballot HOFer and the other is helping Brad sell sunglasses.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 3364

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/26/2020 5:23:30 PM

Pager

Posts: 10574
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

I do agree with Brad that we have ignored the oline for a decade and build from the outside in.

But bringing up the Peterson vs Ben Grubbs draft doesn't hold much water. One is a first ballot HOFer and the other is helping Brad sell sunglasses.

Does anyone think we have addressed the oline appropriately the last 5 years? IMO part is draft priority, hughes over other options (like Daniels). This year Ruiz was the only IOL option I liked. Too early to tell. Part of it is our actual selections & development. If Bradbury doesn't pan out, that's a Treadwell type miss. Elf - looking awful. Samia.

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.

Post #: 3365

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/26/2020 5:38:01 PM

Guest

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

Perhaps some of you upset with the offensive line should take a trip down memory lane back to draft day when I was critical of the organization's attention to the offensive line. Very few came to my defense over that three days of the year.

Once again our upper brass has overlooked the failing engine and instead opted to replace the tires. Some things never seem to change. Like the myopia of Vikings fans on draft day when we select mediocre defensive ends and defensive tackles in round four rather than addressing pressing needs.

Yet in the "2020 Draft, Positions Only" thread, EVERY participant wanted an OL with either the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd pick with the average being the 2nd pick.

Strangely, you didn't participate. Maybe going on record ahead of time is a bit too revealing.

Going on record has been a colossal fail for Bradley, pretty sure we don’t have to bring ALL those names up.

Let alone the brilliant player evaluation of our best current WR, and almost former Sunglass salesperson.

Post #: 3366

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/26/2020 6:21:08 PM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 18003
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

I do agree with Brad that we have ignored the oline for a decade and build from the outside in.

But bringing up the Peterson vs Ben Grubbs draft doesn't hold much water. One is a first ballot HOFer and the other is helping Brad sell sunglasses.

Does anyone think we have addressed the oline appropriately the last 5 years? IMO part is draft priority, hughes over other options (like Daniels). This year Ruiz was the only IOL option I liked. Too early to tell. Part of it is our actual selections & development. If Bradbury doesn't pan out, that's a Treadwell type miss. Elf - looking awful. Samia.

Your right. Almost all of us have been pounding the table for Spielman to fix the oline for 5-6 years running.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 3367

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/26/2020 7:22:10 PM

David F.

Posts: 10892
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: online

Once I was pushing to sign some FA offensive linemen and was told that obviously none of them wanted to come here. We rolled with Kalil. No Super Bowls. Boo hoo.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 3368

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/26/2020 7:42:31 PM

Bruce Johnson

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Joined: 8/27/2007
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A roster move for the Vikings.

https://www.si.com/nfl/vikings/news/vikings-sign-linebacker-david-reese-waive-safety-brian-cole

Krauser is pretty cold with his evaluation of Cole. I think we all knew he was struggling.

https://twitter.com/Krauserrific/status/1298739781317169152?s=09

< Message edited by Bruce Johnson -- 8/26/2020 7:58:20 PM >

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 3369

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/26/2020 8:25:26 PM

kgdabom

Posts: 33795
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

A roster move for the Vikings.

https://www.si.com/nfl/vikings/news/vikings-sign-linebacker-david-reese-waive-safety-brian-cole

Krauser is pretty cold with his evaluation of Cole. I think we all knew he was struggling.

https://twitter.com/Krauserrific/status/1298739781317169152?s=09

He's the first drafted casualty of camp right?

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 3370

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/26/2020 9:05:15 PM

Bruce Johnson

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

A roster move for the Vikings.

https://www.si.com/nfl/vikings/news/vikings-sign-linebacker-david-reese-waive-safety-brian-cole

Krauser is pretty cold with his evaluation of Cole. I think we all knew he was struggling.

https://twitter.com/Krauserrific/status/1298739781317169152?s=09

He's the first drafted casualty of camp right?

I believe so.

In this tweet is a video of Dozier looking really futile with his blocking assignments.

https://twitter.com/PFF_Brad/status/1298797839741575168?s=20

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 3371

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/26/2020 10:19:37 PM

Mark Anderson

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Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

A roster move for the Vikings.

https://www.si.com/nfl/vikings/news/vikings-sign-linebacker-david-reese-waive-safety-brian-cole

Krauser is pretty cold with his evaluation of Cole. I think we all knew he was struggling.

https://twitter.com/Krauserrific/status/1298739781317169152?s=09

His(Cole) college tape was terrible. It was one of those outstanding measurables picks.

Post #: 3372

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/27/2020 12:44:54 AM 1 votes

thebigo

Posts: 28304
Joined: 7/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Once I was pushing to sign some FA offensive linemen and was told that obviously none of them wanted to come here. We rolled with Kalil. No Super Bowls. Boo hoo.

I had an opinion. We didn't win a Super Bowl. I was right.

Post #: 3373

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/27/2020 7:19:55 AM

Bill Jandro

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Joined: 8/13/2007
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The Denver Broncos will not be picking up Ron Leary’s 2020 contract option and will save over $8 million in cap space as a result.

John Elway revealed to reporters at the 2020 NFL Scouting Combine that the Denver Broncos will not be picking up the 2020 club option on offensive guard Ron Leary’s contract.

Leary was a big-money free agent pickup from the Dallas Cowboys in the 2017 offseason, and he was expected to stabilize one of the two guard spots in Denver’s lineup.

Unfortunately, injuries kept him out of 19 games in three seasons with the Broncos, and John Elway and the front office were not about to spend $1.5 million on Leary’s contract option (fully guaranteed) to find out if he could stay healthy in 2020.

Seems there are multiple vet olineman still on the market. Leary, Kline, Warford, Brown. But price tag and injury history seems to be preventing them from getting any interest.

Leary is certainly the best G listed. But appears to spend plenty of time in the hot tub.

Still don't understand us releasing kline the Vikings save about $1.5 million in cap money, but at the cost of almost $4.5 million in dead cap I get that he wouldn't restructure but can't blame him he just signed the contract 12 months prior.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 3374

RE: General Vikes Talk - 8/27/2020 7:31:50 AM

Bill Jandro

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Joined: 8/13/2007
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Mackensie Alexander’s father found alive
Posted by Darin Gantt on August 27, 2020, 8:22 AM EDT

Getty Images
The Bengals got some good news Thursday morning, that had nothing to do with football.

According to Jay Morrison of TheAthletic.com, Bengals cornerback Mackensie Alexander’s father has been found alive.

His father had been missing since Monday night, after a berry-picking trip in Florida. Alexander left camp, and was arrested Tuesday night for one charge of battery against the person last seen with his father.

According to Tom Pelissero of NFL Network, the Collier County Sheriff’s Office said the man walked up to the ranger station at the Kissimmee Prairie Preserve State Park at 7:15 a.m., and was “in good health and will be turned over to family members.”

Alexander and other family members are on their way to see him now, a welcome dose of good news.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 3375