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RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 5/6/2021 3:41:12 PM   
Phil Riewer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty
How is KC better than Jay Cutler ?
They seem similar. Cutler had better OLs, KC has had Theilen and Jefferson, and Cook.
I think KC is a slightly more accurate thrower.
They both seem likely to get sacked, throw a pick, or get hit as they're trying to throw what is likely the play of the game against a good team.


Jay had some receivers but the roster wasn't talented like KC or TB. Depth, Youth, All-Pros, Pro Bowlers every where. Kirk's roster is right there now.

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RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 5/6/2021 3:41:16 PM   
TJSweens


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Once again, the draft thread gets hijacked to argue about Cousins because, you know, we haven't gotten enough of that in over the last 3 years.

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RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 5/6/2021 3:41:26 PM   
bohumm

 

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sd

< Message edited by bohumm -- 5/6/2021 3:42:40 PM >
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RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 5/6/2021 3:42:26 PM  1 votes
bohumm

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

The four seasons in Minnesota:

Hoping for a great season out of their quarterback (July-September)

Watching disappointingly as their quarterback underperforms (October-December)

Bitching about their quarterback and his deficiencies (January-March)

Forgetting how bad he is (April-June)

The four seasons of things that come out of Brad's mouth:

Diarrhea (July-September)

Diarrhea (October-December)

Diarrhea (January-March)

Fermented Diarrhea (April-June)
Post #: 2879
RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 5/6/2021 4:50:50 PM   
McMurfy


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Brad comes here to talk about Football.
Others come here to talk about Brad.

IALTO

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RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 5/6/2021 5:30:22 PM   
Bill Johanesen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

In a desperate attempt to steer the conversation back to the draft, because God knows we don't argue about Cousins enough in the General thread, I'm feeling really positive about it.

I pleaded for RS to trade up to the 2nd round because I believed guys who could really help right away would be picked over by the 3rd round. I was pleasantly surprised at how it worked out.

Mond was a really good pick. You can make a strong argument that he was one of the top 4 QB in the draft. Not a sure thing, but they have two years to develop him and a 3rd round pick is not big gamble. This seems to be the consensus except for a certain poster who shows up every draft to tell everyone how stupid they are.

Surratt was a Zim pick all the way. I trust his judgment on linebackers and d-backs. I expect he will be the starting WSLB in base defense and probably stay on the field in a lot of situational sets.

I was really surprised Davis was there. Day 1 starter at guard. Mauler at the point of attack, who can negate some of that inside pressure that is a constant.

In all we came away with three day 1 starters at positions of need and potentially our QBOTF with our first 4 picks. There were also no incessant trade downs until we owned the 6th an 7th rounds. I give Spielman high marks for this draft.

I agree with all of this. I was not crazy about Surratt at the time of the pick, but it allows us to keep all three LBs on the field in passing situations if we want and blitz any one or two or even three of them. Spielman has to be right about the guys he picks whereas we can just throw out names, but I'm very impressed with the draft on paper and Spielman's patience under pressure was stellar.

The Surratt pick was initially...huh?...for me. The more I researched after the pick the more I saw a guy with the speed to cover and the ability to fly sideline to sideline and make plays. Almost an Eddie McDaniel type weakside linebacker. At least on paper.

Jones was the 3rd round pick that I am most lukewarm about. I thought at the time that there would be just as good or better edge rushers in the 4th round. Janarius Robinson was one of those guys and we got him 44 picks later.


Why would you say that?

Jones had 250% more sacks and 50% more tackles for loss than Robinson.
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RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 5/6/2021 5:52:01 PM   
Bill Johanesen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

I wonder what GM's think about Stafford....LA thinks they have super bowl contending roster except at QB. Lions never built a team around him but Stafford's career record is way worse than Kirk's and I believe he makes more money.

It is typical on this board though that if a GM does an outstanding job in FA and drafts to bring something up like the QB salary.

Pretty sure when Kirk came in they made a ton of promises...(Oline, etc.) to build a team around him and finally this year I think he will have a full complement of talent. I like the fast RB/WR/TE and think all three make the team easily. Even w/o Gladney Hughes is probably our 4th CB.

There is a ton of talent added to the team this year....most excited I have been about contending for something major in many years. I even think we have good depth


This is the only thing I worry about. We have below average depth at WR and S, and it would be nice to add another G/C before the season starts. But otherwise I agree that on paper the Vikings go into the season without any holes to their starting roster.


Our depth is lousy. Definitely WR and S.

There is not a single backup on the roster who is a proven starting-caliber player! A guy who steps in on week one and we don't miss a beat. If so, who?

WR - Is there even a proven good WR3?
QB - Projects
OL - Hill, the rest are crap/unknown
RB - Mattison
TE - Right now just potential and a couple of sparks

DT - Watts and nobody
DE - probably the best
LB - a couple of low end FA vets, Dye did nothing, newbie is unknown
CB - Hughes and wannabes
S - terrible
Post #: 2882
RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 5/6/2021 6:05:48 PM  1 votes
Bill Johanesen


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Not missing a beat is maybe too much for this franchise. Who are the proven players who could step in and perform at 80% of the starter's performance? Who is are the rookies waiting in the wings while they trend up every year?

Maybe Watts. Maybe Hughes, but there is a lot that has to be seen. Maybe Hill. Mattison, but likely not 80% of Cook over a season.

NOBODY is even trending up, let alone proven, to the point they are the heir apparent to the incumbent.

Phil just looks at players days after drafting them and declares them either starters or good depth. I say 2-3 will be starters but only due to gaping holes, while the rest have a lot of work to do to even make the roster.
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RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 5/6/2021 6:52:25 PM   
Pager


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I definitely agree with WR and S.

But there's a lot of time between now and Sept. Always surprise vet cuts and we will have about 5M in cap space (could be even more if guys like Dozier/Cole are pushed out by young talent). Trades are still possible.

There are a lot of unknowns between this year and last year's drafts. Some won't even make the practice squad. Trending up TE group, I felt much better about the young guys after Kyle went down.
Watts definitely, played better down the stretch both years (@ 3T in 19 as rookie and @ NT last year at a new position).

But sometimes you don't know what you have until a player is thrust into the starting role due to injury. Wilson, Anthony Harris, even Ezra stepped in and imo surprised. Ezra got better each week. Sure there are the Samia's and others that bomb. I guess my point is Hand, Udoh, Hinton, and others might be more ready than the fans know. Or maybe even the coaches!

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RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 5/6/2021 6:57:56 PM   
Todd M

 

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Talk about moving the goal posts.

We have quality starters all up and down the roster...but now we're lacking a team B ready to become starters.

Give it 5 minutes. We've had 2 huge draft hauls the last 2 years...there's depth being developed.

Next we'll hear our PS players aren't starting quality.
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RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 5/6/2021 8:33:41 PM   
Todd M

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

The four seasons in Minnesota:

Hoping for a great season out of their quarterback (July-September)

Watching disappointingly as their quarterback underperforms (October-December)

Bitching about their quarterback and his deficiencies (January-March)

Forgetting how bad he is (April-June)


The one season for some Vikes fans.

Spielman, Cousins, Zimmer, the Wilfs, our OL, our D isn't good enough.
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RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 5/6/2021 8:38:07 PM   
Bill Jandro

 

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I'm gonna have to side with McMurphy and Brad

Cousins stinks.

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RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 5/6/2021 9:57:37 PM   
Brad H


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

I'm gonna have to side with McMurphy and Brad

Cousins stinks.

Smart man that Jandro guy.

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RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 5/6/2021 9:57:55 PM   
marty


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Brad makes some valid points, some people just don't want to hear anything bad about Cousins.

I agree that Cousins is slightly better than Jay Cutler, but of them:

They both seem likely to get sacked, throw a pick, or get hit as they're trying to throw what is likely the play of the game against a good team.

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RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 5/6/2021 10:01:02 PM   
marty


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I agree with TJ on 2 points:

1) We shouldn't let this thread be taken over by KC, it should be about the Vikings latest draft.

2) Robinson looks like a better pick on film than Jones.

< Message edited by marty -- 5/6/2021 10:02:05 PM >


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RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 5/6/2021 10:02:23 PM   
Brad H


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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Brad makes some valid points, some people just don't want to hear anything bad about Cousins.

I agree that Cousins is slightly better than Jay Cutler, but of them:

They both seem likely to get sacked, throw a pick, or get hit as they're trying to throw what is likely the play of the game against a good team.

During crunch time they are both below average quarterbacks.

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RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 5/6/2021 10:03:57 PM   
marty


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Why would you say that?

Jones had 250% more sacks and 50% more tackles for loss than Robinson.


Jones may have been benefiting from attention paid to Robinson. Robinson is bigger and stronger, while Jones seems a little small.

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RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 5/6/2021 10:33:59 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Talk about moving the goal posts.

We have quality starters all up and down the roster...but now we're lacking a team B ready to become starters.

Give it 5 minutes. We've had 2 huge draft hauls the last 2 years...there's depth being developed.

Next we'll hear our PS players aren't starting quality.

I doubt anybody expects a B team full of starting quality players.

How about a B team full of adequate back-ups ... or is that too much to aspire to?

As far as waiting 5 minutes for our depth to develop

Spielman has been drafting and developing players as GM since 2012 ... we went 7-9 last year

that wasn't exactly a windfall from our player development pool.

My expectation is more like Bill Murray standing in an empty pool taking a bite out of a baby ruth.

< Message edited by Tom Sykes -- 5/6/2021 10:35:37 PM >
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RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 5/7/2021 7:15:40 AM  1 votes
Bill Johanesen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Talk about moving the goal posts.

We have quality starters all up and down the roster...but now we're lacking a team B ready to become starters.

Give it 5 minutes. We've had 2 huge draft hauls the last 2 years...there's depth being developed.

Next we'll hear our PS players aren't starting quality.


There is no moving the goalposts.

The post said we have quality depth, I say we don't. Mainly because players haven't showed in games they have played that they are of the caliber where they can step in for long periods and things keep rolling along pretty well. Other players are unproven.

We ALWAYS have "huge draft hauls" in the year or two right after a draft WRT depth guys. Go back 4-5 years and see who is on the roster or even in football. Nonetheless, maybe these drafts will be different.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 5/7/2021 7:22:12 AM >
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RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 5/7/2021 7:18:22 AM   
Bill Johanesen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Why would you say that?

Jones had 250% more sacks and 50% more tackles for loss than Robinson.


Jones may have been benefiting from attention paid to Robinson. Robinson is bigger and stronger, while Jones seems a little small.

quote:

Robinson is bigger and stronger, while Jones seems a little small.


Wow.
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RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 5/7/2021 7:24:48 AM  1 votes
Bill Johanesen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Talk about moving the goal posts.

We have quality starters all up and down the roster...but now we're lacking a team B ready to become starters.

Give it 5 minutes. We've had 2 huge draft hauls the last 2 years...there's depth being developed.

Next we'll hear our PS players aren't starting quality.

I doubt anybody expects a B team full of starting quality players.

How about a B team full of adequate back-ups ... or is that too much to aspire to?

As far as waiting 5 minutes for our depth to develop

Spielman has been drafting and developing players as GM since 2012 ... we went 7-9 last year

that wasn't exactly a windfall from our player development pool.

My expectation is more like Bill Murray standing in an empty pool taking a bite out of a baby ruth.



Pool and a pond... pond's good for you.

I want a SB, I want good depth.... you'll get nothing and like it!
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RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 5/7/2021 8:00:34 AM   
Tom Sykes

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Talk about moving the goal posts.

We have quality starters all up and down the roster...but now we're lacking a team B ready to become starters.

Give it 5 minutes. We've had 2 huge draft hauls the last 2 years...there's depth being developed.

Next we'll hear our PS players aren't starting quality.

I doubt anybody expects a B team full of starting quality players.

How about a B team full of adequate back-ups ... or is that too much to aspire to?

As far as waiting 5 minutes for our depth to develop

Spielman has been drafting and developing players as GM since 2012 ... we went 7-9 last year

that wasn't exactly a windfall from our player development pool.

My expectation is more like Bill Murray standing in an empty pool taking a bite out of a baby ruth.



Pool and a pond... pond's good for you.

I want a SB, I want good depth.... you'll get nothing and like it!

Dam you, I can’t be pressured into aiming higher now that I just committed to mediocre.

Better to be closer to mediocre and right, than mediocre and wishy-washy.

< Message edited by Tom Sykes -- 5/7/2021 11:37:10 AM >
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RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 5/7/2021 8:03:59 AM   
Tom Sykes

 

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And by ‘adequate’ depth ... I mean adequate to a very high standard, nearly or really just equal to starting quality.

Wishy-washy but not mediocre it is!

< Message edited by Tom Sykes -- 5/7/2021 11:37:39 AM >
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RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 5/7/2021 8:54:37 AM   
Hats4Bats


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I like this move! He would be a nice compliment to Irv. Athletic for a TE. Minnesota State GOLD again?

Vikings Sign Former Minnesota State Mankato WR Shane Zylstra, Move Him to Tight End
Zylstra broke Adam Thielen's records in Mankato, and now he'll compete for a spot on the Vikings.

Will Ragatz
May 4, 2021

The Vikings have signed former Minnesota State Mankato wide receiver Shane Zylstra, his agent announced on Twitter on Tuesday evening.

According to Chris Tomasson, the Vikings are moving the 6'5", 230-pound Zylstra to tight end. He'll try to follow in Adam Thielen's path as an undrafted star from Mankato to make the Vikings and develop into an impact player.

Zylstra, a native of Spicer, MN, had a dominant career for the Mavericks, with four-year totals of 227 catches, 4,297 yards, and 55 touchdowns in 54 games. As a senior in 2019, he broke Thielen's single-season school records with 81 catches, 1,676 receiving yards, and 18 receiving touchdowns.

After going undrafted in 2020, Zylstra was hurt by the COVID-19 pandemic, which prevented him from having the tryout opportunities that he may have had in a normal year. He participated in the University of Minnesota's pro day this year, back in late March, and was scheduled to attend some rookie minicamps soon before he signed with the Vikings.

Zylstra is the younger brother of Brandon Zylstra, who played college ball at Concordia-Moorhead, began his professional career in the CFL, spent the 2018 season with the Vikings, and currently plays for the Carolina Panthers.

Shane Zylstra will compete with 2019 UDFA Brandon Dillon and recent fifth-round draft pick Zach Davidson for the Vikings' No. 3 tight end job behind Irv Smith Jr. and Tyler Conklin. Dillon has the most experience and is a solid blocker, but Davidson — who is 6'7", 245 and a great athlete — and Zylstra have more upside in the passing game.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjLh7e_3LfwAhVR7J4KHWO1A1oQuAIwAHoECAIQDA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DLq6ToB_RAdk&usg=AOvVaw02vaP4KcL57YJKdwlQSq7T

< Message edited by Hats4Bats -- 5/7/2021 8:55:53 AM >


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RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 5/7/2021 11:06:16 AM   
McMurfy


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You always know a guy is a Bad QB if it takes a legion of Fans to defend him.

If Cousins was even above average, his Fan Boys would have far fewer posts.

About halfway through the first game next season, his garbage time stats will be long forgotten,We’ll be down 21-3,
and he’ll start compiling his 2022 garbage time stats and we’ll lose 28-24.

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