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RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/9/2021 11:48:00 AM

Bill Jandro

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Joined: 8/13/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

My prediction is that the Vikings select Alijah Vera-Tucker.

I think that 14 is a little early for a guy projected to be a G in the NFL. He does fit the ZBS but struggles to anchor against the bull rush in pass pro.

I think our needs will become more clear in the next few weeks. Considering if we restructure Rieff and all. I also hope it becomes more clear as to what state of mind Hunter is at. If he wants out this team should be blown up immediately.

As much as the Vikings need a Guard (or 2), if I'm RS I pick DT Christian Barmore in the first round. We know he'll pick an athletic freak at DE in the 4th round (see Hunter, Wonnum) but the quickest way to make this team a contender is to create a d-line that can dominate on day one. We already have Hunter and Pierce. Add Barmore, and assuming Wonnum takes another step this year, it's possible.

I agree, We desperately need a quality 3T. It will take pressure off the edges if a DT needs to be double teamed. However, Hunter is somewhat of a lynch pin. Rick might panic and select a DE at 14. Too high of a bust rate on these guys for me.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 451

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/9/2021 11:51:50 AM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 17843
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Reiff has to go otherwise the Ezra Cleveland pick makes no sense.

Not necessarily. If Ezra can become an above avg G I'm ok with him staying there. The plus side to Ezra is he has position flexibility due to his exp at LT in college. The only thing that didn't make sense to me was moving him to the right side.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 452

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/9/2021 12:48:39 PM

Pauldiercks1

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Joined: 2/1/2019
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Seems to me we should be releasing some high priced vets even if it doesn't seem logical.
Guards are getting released a lot it seems to me. Id have to think with the cap we can get a very good guard under market value and possibly a few other positions as well. Sign a few very good players on one year deals and then resign them the following year if it works out.
I'm not sure we need to draft a guard with all of them available

Post #: 453

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/9/2021 1:49:53 PM

Bruce Johnson

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You know, they should sign two guards while they're at it. One of them can compete with Bradbury perhaps or with Cleveland. I'm talking about having a real competition. (which we certainly did not have last year) If they let go of Reiff they can get two guards AND pick up a serious OT in the first round of the draft. It's kind of like going nuclear with our offensive line situation. Bomb the hell out of our offensive line roster situation. Re-create the offensive line and transform it from an epic weakness to a strength. Imagine that!

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 454

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/9/2021 2:43:41 PM

Bill Jandro

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Status: online

Not sure Zim has ever held a true camp competition.

Cheapest route to fixing the Oline is cut Reiff then:

A. Flip O'Neal to LT and Udoh steps in at RT. Draft/Sign LG.

B. Move Ezra to LT. Draft/Sign 2 starting G's.

C. Draft LT at 14. Draft/Sign LG.

Route A could end up being expensive being O'Neal would get LT money in pending contract talks. I really don't like option B because we've barely been able to field one competent G. Two is asking a lot from this regime.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 455

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/9/2021 4:17:59 PM

David F.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Not

Cheapest route to fixing the Oline is cut Reiff then:

A. Flip O'Neal to LT and Udoh steps in at RT. Draft/Sign LG.

B. Move Ezra to LT. Draft/Sign 2 starting G's.

C. Draft LT at 14. Draft/Sign LG.

Route A could end up being expensive being O'Neal would get LT money in pending contract talks. I really don't like option B because we've barely been able to field one competent G. Two is asking a lot from this regime.

Nope. Never during the season either. It’s one of his worst traits as a coach.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 456

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/9/2021 7:26:45 PM

Tom Sykes

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Andrew Krammer
@Andrew_Krammer
·
6h
Daniel Jeremiah on a conference call says this is the "worst defensive tackle class in a decade." Maybe one prospect, Alabama's Christian Barmore, with a first-round chance.

That truck circling Geno Atkins' neighborhood is probably Mike Zimmer's.

Post #: 457

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/9/2021 7:38:04 PM

Tom Sykes

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Pick from the strength of the draft like last year.

If we are lucky, #14 can get us starter competition at OL, DE, a DB ... lightening in a bottle twice gets us another big-time starter at a position of need.

Without trading down (maybe even a couple of times) I want nothing to do with an over-valued DT like Barmore.

This is a draft where you gamble on a Hunter-like freakish specimen (with little college production) at DT in the middle rounds for development. To compete with the current developmentals. With little expectation.

Post #: 458

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/9/2021 8:36:52 PM

thebigo

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Joined: 7/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

You know, they should sign two guards while they're at it. One of them can compete with Bradbury perhaps or with Cleveland. I'm talking about having a real competition. (which we certainly did not have last year) If they let go of Reiff they can get two guards AND pick up a serious OT in the first round of the draft. It's kind of like going nuclear with our offensive line situation. Bomb the hell out of our offensive line roster situation. Re-create the offensive line and transform it from an epic weakness to a strength. Imagine that!

Or struggle with a bunch of guys we don't currently know about getting used to playing with each other/different positions..

Post #: 459

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/9/2021 8:39:14 PM

thebigo

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Joined: 7/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Reiff has to go otherwise the Ezra Cleveland pick makes no sense.

Not necessarily. If Ezra can become an above avg G I'm ok with him staying there. The plus side to Ezra is he has position flexibility due to his exp at LT in college. The only thing that didn't make sense to me was moving him to the right side.

They didn't initially move him to the right side, they did it after the Elflein/Samosa disaster.

Post #: 460

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/9/2021 9:03:52 PM

Pager

Posts: 10500
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

My prediction is that the Vikings select Alijah Vera-Tucker.

I think that 14 is a little early for a guy projected to be a G in the NFL. He does fit the ZBS but struggles to anchor against the bull rush in pass pro.

I think our needs will become more clear in the next few weeks. Considering if we restructure Rieff and all. I also hope it becomes more clear as to what state of mind Hunter is at. If he wants out this team should be blown up immediately.

As much as the Vikings need a Guard (or 2), if I'm RS I pick DT Christian Barmore in the first round. We know he'll pick an athletic freak at DE in the 4th round (see Hunter, Wonnum) but the quickest way to make this team a contender is to create a d-line that can dominate on day one. We already have Hunter and Pierce. Add Barmore, and assuming Wonnum takes another step this year, it's possible.

This is why I've soured on this regime. The off-season team building was atrocious (see Yannick trade et al). But also our in-season coaching/team building. It takes an injury to Elf to try someone new and then jettison Elf when Samia was worse (somehow).

Same goes at 3T. Watts played mostly 3T as a rookie, but then we try and salvage JJ by moving him to 3T when Pierce opts out and when that's not working and our season is basically over we continue to play Watts at NT (and he showed strong signs of improvement at NT over the last 5-6 games). What do we have with Watts - is more than just a guy at 3T? Late bloomer and only produced his Senior Year. Same with the online. We know what Dozier is. What do we have in Udoh? I know some think we overhype him and there's probably/maybe some truth. But how are you gonna know? We know Dozier is not a starting guard. WTF not shuffle Udoh in at RG, move Ezra to LG (where he spent time in training camp) and actually have an idea of what we have??

Yes, I know the coaches know more than we do and it's all about how they practice

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.

Post #: 461

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/9/2021 11:56:12 PM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12061
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: online

Northwestern Pro Day

Slater: 6'4" 304 33 reps, 4.88 forty

CB Greg Newsome: 4.38 forty

< Message edited by Mark Anderson -- 3/9/2021 11:57:31 PM >

Post #: 462

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/10/2021 6:48:15 AM

Bruce Johnson

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

Andrew Krammer
@Andrew_Krammer
·
6h
Daniel Jeremiah on a conference call says this is the "worst defensive tackle class in a decade." Maybe one prospect, Alabama's Christian Barmore, with a first-round chance.

That truck circling Geno Atkins' neighborhood is probably Mike Zimmer's.

There are, I believe, three worthy of being selected in the second round. Because of the lack of depth in the class, they all might go earlier. I mean, sometimes I advocate for passing on a player at a certain position knowing there still will be quality options later in the draft. This year that would be safety. 3 tech would be a position to reach this year.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 463

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/10/2021 7:41:00 AM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 17843
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Reiff has to go otherwise the Ezra Cleveland pick makes no sense.

Not necessarily. If Ezra can become an above avg G I'm ok with him staying there. The plus side to Ezra is he has position flexibility due to his exp at LT in college. The only thing that didn't make sense to me was moving him to the right side.

They didn't initially move him to the right side, they did it after the Elflein/Samosa disaster.

Pretty sure they had him at RG in TC. Maybe someone can confirm.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 464

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/10/2021 8:00:02 AM

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9316
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Reiff has to go otherwise the Ezra Cleveland pick makes no sense.

Not necessarily. If Ezra can become an above avg G I'm ok with him staying there. The plus side to Ezra is he has position flexibility due to his exp at LT in college. The only thing that didn't make sense to me was moving him to the right side.

They didn't initially move him to the right side, they did it after the Elflein/Samosa disaster.

Pretty sure they had him at RG in TC. Maybe someone can confirm.

if the vikings sign atkins at dt, then say good-bye to a decent free agent guard...we'll keep reiff and pick vera-tucker for right guard and in spielman's eyes, we're ready to go...he likes atkins on a short-term deal, and an inexpensive new starting left guard that can swing over....

reiff - vera-tucker - bradbury - cleveland - o'neill

we'll cut/trade reiff next year and cleveland/vera-tucker with move to the far left....

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.

Post #: 465

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/10/2021 8:20:32 AM

Brad H

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A lot of people in here obsessed with the offensive line. The defense gave up 475 points. Get that fixed and the offensive line suddenly looks a lot better. You can't give up nearly 30 points-per-game and expect to be a factor.

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!

Post #: 466

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/10/2021 8:37:27 AM

Phil Riewer

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Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

A lot of people in here obsessed with the offensive line. The defense gave up 475 points. Get that fixed and the offensive line suddenly looks a lot better. You can't give up nearly 30 points-per-game and expect to be a factor.

So far Weatherly signed, Hunter looks to be back as well as Pierce and Barr.

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 467

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/10/2021 8:57:28 AM

Brad H

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

A lot of people in here obsessed with the offensive line. The defense gave up 475 points. Get that fixed and the offensive line suddenly looks a lot better. You can't give up nearly 30 points-per-game and expect to be a factor.

So far Weatherly signed, Hunter looks to be back as well as Pierce and Barr.

Of that group, Hunter is the guy that really matters. We were awful up front last season.

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!

Post #: 468

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/10/2021 9:11:16 AM

Pauldiercks1

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Joined: 2/1/2019
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Yes the offensive line is a concern.
As is the defensive line.
As a whole the defense is shaping up fine just by getting back players and adding a solid player or two.
The offensive line is a concern because year after year we continue to ignore fixing it or fail to fix it might be a better word.
I think we have more faith that the defense will be fixed. What did we have left at the end of last year 2-3 players starting that started on defense the previous year? Something like that. When you look at that the defense was going to be very bad.

Post #: 469

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/10/2021 9:15:51 AM

TJSweens

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

A lot of people in here obsessed with the offensive line. The defense gave up 475 points. Get that fixed and the offensive line suddenly looks a lot better. You can't give up nearly 30 points-per-game and expect to be a factor.

So far Weatherly signed, Hunter looks to be back as well as Pierce and Barr.

Of that group, Hunter is the guy that really matters. We were awful up front last season.

Pierce matters as well. Not nearly to the same degree as Hunter, but he does matter. The d-line got man handled in the run game all year because they didn't have a line clogging mass in the middle.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 470

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/10/2021 9:21:32 AM

TJSweens

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pauldiercks1

Yes the offensive line is a concern.
As is the defensive line.
As a whole the defense is shaping up fine just by getting back players and adding a solid player or two.
The offensive line is a concern because year after year we continue to ignore fixing it or fail to fix it might be a better word.
I think we have more faith that the defense will be fixed. What did we have left at the end of last year 2-3 players starting that started on defense the previous year? Something like that. When you look at that the defense was going to be very bad.

The problem is that we are not sure what players are coming back on defense next year. Hunter may force a trade. Barr is grossly overpaid and will likely be cut if he doesn't renegotiate. We are sure Pierce and Kendricks will be back, but they need a lot more. Especially with Smith getting older and losing a step.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 471

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/10/2021 9:32:03 AM

Pager

Posts: 10500
Joined: 7/19/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Reiff has to go otherwise the Ezra Cleveland pick makes no sense.

Not necessarily. If Ezra can become an above avg G I'm ok with him staying there. The plus side to Ezra is he has position flexibility due to his exp at LT in college. The only thing that didn't make sense to me was moving him to the right side.

They didn't initially move him to the right side, they did it after the Elflein/Samosa disaster.

Pretty sure they had him at RG in TC. Maybe someone can confirm.

He was listed as the third string LG during training camp. Which makes sense - playing on the left exclusively in college.

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.

Post #: 472

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/10/2021 9:48:54 AM

TJSweens

Posts: 44320
Joined: 7/16/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Reiff has to go otherwise the Ezra Cleveland pick makes no sense.

Not necessarily. If Ezra can become an above avg G I'm ok with him staying there. The plus side to Ezra is he has position flexibility due to his exp at LT in college. The only thing that didn't make sense to me was moving him to the right side.

They didn't initially move him to the right side, they did it after the Elflein/Samosa disaster.

Pretty sure they had him at RG in TC. Maybe someone can confirm.

He was listed as the third string LG during training camp. Which makes sense - playing on the left exclusively in college.

I still don't see Cleveland as a guard, long term. Right or left, he wasn't good at the position last year. He merely sucked less than Elf or Samia. Cleveland still looks better suited to tackle.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 473

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/10/2021 10:10:28 AM

Brad H

Posts: 22653
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pauldiercks1

Yes the offensive line is a concern.
As is the defensive line.
As a whole the defense is shaping up fine just by getting back players and adding a solid player or two.
The offensive line is a concern because year after year we continue to ignore fixing it or fail to fix it might be a better word.
I think we have more faith that the defense will be fixed. What did we have left at the end of last year 2-3 players starting that started on defense the previous year? Something like that. When you look at that the defense was going to be very bad.

My big concern is that the offensive line stayed fairly healthy last season. That isn't the norm.

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!

Post #: 474

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/10/2021 10:19:48 AM

thebigo

Posts: 28247
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Reiff has to go otherwise the Ezra Cleveland pick makes no sense.

Not necessarily. If Ezra can become an above avg G I'm ok with him staying there. The plus side to Ezra is he has position flexibility due to his exp at LT in college. The only thing that didn't make sense to me was moving him to the right side.

They didn't initially move him to the right side, they did it after the Elflein/Samosa disaster.

Pretty sure they had him at RG in TC. Maybe someone can confirm.

He was listed as the third string LG during training camp. Which makes sense - playing on the left exclusively in college.