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RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/10/2021 11:05:25 AM

Mark Anderson

Posts: 12168
Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pauldiercks1

Yes the offensive line is a concern.
As is the defensive line.
As a whole the defense is shaping up fine just by getting back players and adding a solid player or two.
The offensive line is a concern because year after year we continue to ignore fixing it or fail to fix it might be a better word.
I think we have more faith that the defense will be fixed. What did we have left at the end of last year 2-3 players starting that started on defense the previous year? Something like that. When you look at that the defense was going to be very bad.

My big concern is that the offensive line stayed fairly healthy last season. That isn't the norm.

We kept hoping that Dozier would tweak something but it never happened.

Post #: 476

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/10/2021 1:26:27 PM

Jeff Jesser

Posts: 19458
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: Southern Cal
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pauldiercks1

Yes the offensive line is a concern.
As is the defensive line.
As a whole the defense is shaping up fine just by getting back players and adding a solid player or two.
The offensive line is a concern because year after year we continue to ignore fixing it or fail to fix it might be a better word.
I think we have more faith that the defense will be fixed. What did we have left at the end of last year 2-3 players starting that started on defense the previous year? Something like that. When you look at that the defense was going to be very bad.

The problem is that we are not sure what players are coming back on defense next year. Hunter may force a trade. Barr is grossly overpaid and will likely be cut if he doesn't renegotiate. We are sure Pierce and Kendricks will be back, but they need a lot more. Especially with Smith getting older and losing a step.

One good lesson learned last year is what the D looks like without getting any contributions from Harris.

Post #: 477

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/10/2021 1:36:18 PM

David F.

Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pauldiercks1

Yes the offensive line is a concern.
As is the defensive line.
As a whole the defense is shaping up fine just by getting back players and adding a solid player or two.
The offensive line is a concern because year after year we continue to ignore fixing it or fail to fix it might be a better word.
I think we have more faith that the defense will be fixed. What did we have left at the end of last year 2-3 players starting that started on defense the previous year? Something like that. When you look at that the defense was going to be very bad.

The problem is that we are not sure what players are coming back on defense next year. Hunter may force a trade. Barr is grossly overpaid and will likely be cut if he doesn't renegotiate. We are sure Pierce and Kendricks will be back, but they need a lot more. Especially with Smith getting older and losing a step.

One good lesson learned last year is what the D looks like without getting any contributions from Harris.

If you call 7 passes defended and 104 combined solo and assisted tackles nothing then you have a point. In 2018 he had 3 picks and 46 combined tackles. In 2019 he had 6 picks and 60 combined tackles. Clearly Zimmer gave him a different role in 2020.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 478

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/10/2021 1:58:03 PM

Daniel Lee Young

Posts: 14000
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff Jesser

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pauldiercks1

Yes the offensive line is a concern.
As is the defensive line.
As a whole the defense is shaping up fine just by getting back players and adding a solid player or two.
The offensive line is a concern because year after year we continue to ignore fixing it or fail to fix it might be a better word.
I think we have more faith that the defense will be fixed. What did we have left at the end of last year 2-3 players starting that started on defense the previous year? Something like that. When you look at that the defense was going to be very bad.

The problem is that we are not sure what players are coming back on defense next year. Hunter may force a trade. Barr is grossly overpaid and will likely be cut if he doesn't renegotiate. We are sure Pierce and Kendricks will be back, but they need a lot more. Especially with Smith getting older and losing a step.

One good lesson learned last year is what the D looks like without getting any contributions from Harris.

If you call 7 passes defended and 104 combined solo and assisted tackles nothing then you have a point. In 2018 he had 3 picks and 46 combined tackles. In 2019 he had 6 picks and 60 combined tackles. Clearly Zimmer gave him a different role in 2020.

Yea there is a lot of noise on here about safety..

I get that Harrison smith is a tad overpaid at this point in his career.. but on the otherhand his experience and ability to teach and help all the secondary players on Zimmer’s defense, is being either under-rated or completely ignored..

Why is Antoine Winfield held up as an example of an aged vet who got screwed.. but doing a similar thing to a league top ten safety, easily, in Smith, is somehow different?

Harris haters.... ?

Blinders much?

You want the human scud missle instead?

Elite smart playmaking Safeties are NOT a dime a dozen..

Pump the brakes a bit on calling safety a need...

Look at the atrocious and obvious weaknesses of the offensive line.

I’ll take a safety getting burned by younger faster players, a good offensive play call or a quarterback who makes that throw..

But the constant human enema play and the three and outs and being unable to get 1-2 yards on second or third or even fourth and short, when needed to sustain a drive is MAGNITUDES of order more of a need.

That requires player Capital and money.

< Message edited by Daniel Lee Young -- 3/10/2021 2:08:12 PM >

_____________________________

**** you all.

Post #: 479

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/10/2021 2:09:19 PM

Daniel Lee Young

Posts: 14000
Status: offline

Man my proof reading ability and typing is ageing faster than I care to admit...

My eyes are worn out..

_____________________________

**** you all.

Post #: 480

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/10/2021 2:09:24 PM

ratoppenheimer

Posts: 9562
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline

.
.
Courtney Cronin@CourtneyRCronin
Vikings now have four 4th round picks (144th overall) and two 6th rounders (223rd overall) upon being award two compensatory picks. Brings the total to 12 draft picks in April. Minnesota doesn't currently have a 2nd round selection but has the draft capital to go after one.

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.

Post #: 481

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/10/2021 2:20:22 PM

Daniel Lee Young

Posts: 14000
Status: offline

I’ll believe spielman trading fourths for a second when it actually happens..

_____________________________

**** you all.

Post #: 482

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/10/2021 3:00:17 PM

thebigo

Posts: 28302
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pauldiercks1

Yes the offensive line is a concern.
As is the defensive line.
As a whole the defense is shaping up fine just by getting back players and adding a solid player or two.
The offensive line is a concern because year after year we continue to ignore fixing it or fail to fix it might be a better word.
I think we have more faith that the defense will be fixed. What did we have left at the end of last year 2-3 players starting that started on defense the previous year? Something like that. When you look at that the defense was going to be very bad.

My big concern is that the offensive line stayed fairly healthy last season. That isn't the norm.

We kept hoping that Dozier would tweak something but it never happened.

He doesn't exactly have those "quick twitch" muscles.

Post #: 483

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/10/2021 8:45:36 PM

Bill Jandro

Posts: 17928
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline

With Reiff gone an OT has to be a consideration at 14.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft

Post #: 484

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/11/2021 6:33:57 AM

Bruce Johnson

Posts: 16353
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

With Reiff gone an OT has to be a consideration at 14.

The #Vikings watched Rashawn Slater's Pro Day and cut Riley Reiff one day later. Just sayin'......

(Daniel House on Twitter)

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?

Post #: 485

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/11/2021 8:55:19 AM

marty

Posts: 13047
Joined: 12/28/2007
Status: offline

Slater and Sloter

_____________________________

SKOL to the BOWL !!!

Post #: 486

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/11/2021 9:40:49 AM

TJSweens

Posts: 45016
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

With Reiff gone an OT has to be a consideration at 14.

The #Vikings watched Rashawn Slater's Pro Day and cut Riley Reiff one day later. Just sayin'......

(Daniel House on Twitter)

You're trying to apply logic here and that has no place in determining how Spielman will addresses the O-line.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 487

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/11/2021 10:02:03 AM

joejitsu

Posts: 15424
Joined: 3/21/2010
From: 60411
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

With Reiff gone an OT has to be a consideration at 14.

The #Vikings watched Rashawn Slater's Pro Day and cut Riley Reiff one day later. Just sayin'......

(Daniel House on Twitter)

You're trying to apply logic here and that has no place in determining how Spielman will addresses the O-line.

True! But, in the event the Trader sees the light and goes with logic, would that mean that Ezra takes over the lt spot? That's a lot of youth on the left side of the line.

Post #: 488

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/11/2021 10:09:33 AM

thebigo

Posts: 28302
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

With Reiff gone an OT has to be a consideration at 14.

The #Vikings watched Rashawn Slater's Pro Day and cut Riley Reiff one day later. Just sayin'......

(Daniel House on Twitter)

Reverse psychology. Or is it double reverse psychology?

< Message edited by thebigo -- 3/11/2021 11:24:18 AM >

Post #: 489

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/11/2021 10:30:01 AM

TJSweens

Posts: 45016
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: joejitsu

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

With Reiff gone an OT has to be a consideration at 14.

The #Vikings watched Rashawn Slater's Pro Day and cut Riley Reiff one day later. Just sayin'......

(Daniel House on Twitter)

You're trying to apply logic here and that has no place in determining how Spielman will addresses the O-line.

True! But, in the event the Trader sees the light and goes with logic, would that mean that Ezra takes over the lt spot? That's a lot of youth on the left side of the line.

I'm still skeptical of Ezra taking over anywhere. He was 36th out of 40 RG in pass blocking. That doesn't exactly inspire me to move him to LT where he will face the other team's best pass rusher most games. On the other hand, it doesn't inspire me to leave him at RG either.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 490

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/11/2021 10:31:47 AM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 27426
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

With Reiff gone an OT has to be a consideration at 14.

The #Vikings watched Rashawn Slater's Pro Day and cut Riley Reiff one day later. Just sayin'......

(Daniel House on Twitter)

You're trying to apply logic here and that has no place in determining how Spielman will addresses the O-line.

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 491

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/11/2021 10:53:24 AM

David F.

Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: joejitsu

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

With Reiff gone an OT has to be a consideration at 14.

The #Vikings watched Rashawn Slater's Pro Day and cut Riley Reiff one day later. Just sayin'......

(Daniel House on Twitter)

You're trying to apply logic here and that has no place in determining how Spielman will addresses the O-line.

True! But, in the event the Trader sees the light and goes with logic, would that mean that Ezra takes over the lt spot? That's a lot of youth on the left side of the line.

I'm still skeptical of Ezra taking over anywhere. He was 36th out of 40 RG in pass blocking. That doesn't exactly inspire me to move him to LT where he will face the other team's best pass rusher most games. On the other hand, it doesn't inspire me to leave him at RG either.

If you draft a LT in the 2nd round you have to play him at LT - especially when you just released your starting LT. The Vikings are possibly about to out-smart themselves again.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 492

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/11/2021 10:56:02 AM

TJSweens

Posts: 45016
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: joejitsu

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

With Reiff gone an OT has to be a consideration at 14.

The #Vikings watched Rashawn Slater's Pro Day and cut Riley Reiff one day later. Just sayin'......

(Daniel House on Twitter)

You're trying to apply logic here and that has no place in determining how Spielman will addresses the O-line.

True! But, in the event the Trader sees the light and goes with logic, would that mean that Ezra takes over the lt spot? That's a lot of youth on the left side of the line.

I'm still skeptical of Ezra taking over anywhere. He was 36th out of 40 RG in pass blocking. That doesn't exactly inspire me to move him to LT where he will face the other team's best pass rusher most games. On the other hand, it doesn't inspire me to leave him at RG either.

If you draft a LT in the 2nd round you have to play him at LT - especially when you just released your starting LT. The Vikings are possibly about to out-smart themselves again.

That may be the plan, but based on performance, it isn't necessarily a good one. Just sayin.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 493

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/11/2021 11:14:13 AM

David F.

Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: joejitsu

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

With Reiff gone an OT has to be a consideration at 14.

The #Vikings watched Rashawn Slater's Pro Day and cut Riley Reiff one day later. Just sayin'......

(Daniel House on Twitter)

You're trying to apply logic here and that has no place in determining how Spielman will addresses the O-line.

True! But, in the event the Trader sees the light and goes with logic, would that mean that Ezra takes over the lt spot? That's a lot of youth on the left side of the line.

I'm still skeptical of Ezra taking over anywhere. He was 36th out of 40 RG in pass blocking. That doesn't exactly inspire me to move him to LT where he will face the other team's best pass rusher most games. On the other hand, it doesn't inspire me to leave him at RG either.

If you draft a LT in the 2nd round you have to play him at LT - especially when you just released your starting LT. The Vikings are possibly about to out-smart themselves again.

That may be the plan, but based on performance, it isn't necessarily a good one. Just sayin.

For all we know Cleveland might end up being a stellar left tackle.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 494

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/11/2021 11:17:26 AM

David Levine

Posts: 77938
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: joejitsu

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

With Reiff gone an OT has to be a consideration at 14.

The #Vikings watched Rashawn Slater's Pro Day and cut Riley Reiff one day later. Just sayin'......

(Daniel House on Twitter)

You're trying to apply logic here and that has no place in determining how Spielman will addresses the O-line.

True! But, in the event the Trader sees the light and goes with logic, would that mean that Ezra takes over the lt spot? That's a lot of youth on the left side of the line.

I'm still skeptical of Ezra taking over anywhere. He was 36th out of 40 RG in pass blocking. That doesn't exactly inspire me to move him to LT where he will face the other team's best pass rusher most games. On the other hand, it doesn't inspire me to leave him at RG either.

If you draft a LT in the 2nd round you have to play him at LT - especially when you just released your starting LT. The Vikings are possibly about to out-smart themselves again.

That may be the plan, but based on performance, it isn't necessarily a good one. Just sayin.

Bear with me on this one, but maybe...just maybe...a guy who was projected to only be an OT in the NFL wasn't really suited to playing OG. And maybe that's why he didn't perform that well at RG?

I'm looking back at all his predraft write-ups and every single one paints him as an OT. His biggest strength is his agility and ability to move, his biggest weakness is a lack of strength. He's been described physically as "more Power Forward than Refrigerator".

Here is just one (of many examples):

https://www.si.com/nfl/browns/browns-maven-features/cleveland-browns-2020-nfl-draft-scouting-report-ezra-cleveland-ot-boise-state

Post #: 495

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/11/2021 11:20:25 AM

David Levine

Posts: 77938
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

PROS: Wonderful mobility that shows up when framing speedy edge rushers and working laterally in outside zone. Has outstanding range in space and the ability to work back inside and cut three-techniques. Does a great job keeping his feet and hips engaged which enable him to sustain blocks despite not being a guy that generates much in the way of vertical push. Has the foot speed needed to mirror. Has good overall body control and doesn't get panicky in pass pro, although the power to redirect is missing. Punch is efficient. Three-year starter.

CONS: Functional strength disappoints. Isn’t going to stun defenders with a powerful punch or unlock his hips to create push in the run game. Punch is fairly soft. Doesn’t feature a stout anchor and he will have challenges maintaining the width of the pocket against power rushers in the NFL. Modest length and ability to keep opponents at the edge of his reach. Can be susceptible to inside moves by over-committing to the outside rush. You won’t find much in the way of a mean streak or maulers mentality present in his game. Effective college blocker but never dominated.

BEST TRAIT - Mobility

WORST TRAIT - Functional Power

RED FLAGS - None

NFL COMP - Brian O’Neill

https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/ezra-cleveland/FlSsLd3jpO

Post #: 496

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/11/2021 11:26:34 AM

thebigo

Posts: 28302
Joined: 7/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: joejitsu

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

With Reiff gone an OT has to be a consideration at 14.

The #Vikings watched Rashawn Slater's Pro Day and cut Riley Reiff one day later. Just sayin'......

(Daniel House on Twitter)

You're trying to apply logic here and that has no place in determining how Spielman will addresses the O-line.

True! But, in the event the Trader sees the light and goes with logic, would that mean that Ezra takes over the lt spot? That's a lot of youth on the left side of the line.

I'm still skeptical of Ezra taking over anywhere. He was 36th out of 40 RG in pass blocking. That doesn't exactly inspire me to move him to LT where he will face the other team's best pass rusher most games. On the other hand, it doesn't inspire me to leave him at RG either.

He may be better equipped to handle speed rushers vs the 300+ lb bull rushers he faced in the middle.

Post #: 497

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/11/2021 11:30:19 AM

TJSweens

Posts: 45016
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline

I have no doubt that Cleveland is better suited to play tackle than guard and would perform better as a tackle. The question is how much better? He was epically bad at RG. If it wasn't for playing next to Dozier and replacing Elf and Samia, he would look that much worse. If he is that good of a prospect, we should have expected a little more out of him even if he wasn't playing his best position.

You can show Brian O'Neill as a comp, but that doesn't mean he is going to be that player. O'Neill came into camp and turned heads right away. He forced his way into the lineup within a couple of games and never looked back.

I am not saying in any way shape or form, that with an offseason in the weight room and moving to a more natural position that Cleveland couldn't make huge strides. I'm just saying it's quite a gamble to say he is our LT next year on a line that already has a lot of holes to address.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 498

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/11/2021 11:33:09 AM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28600
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: joejitsu

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

With Reiff gone an OT has to be a consideration at 14.

The #Vikings watched Rashawn Slater's Pro Day and cut Riley Reiff one day later. Just sayin'......

(Daniel House on Twitter)

You're trying to apply logic here and that has no place in determining how Spielman will addresses the O-line.

True! But, in the event the Trader sees the light and goes with logic, would that mean that Ezra takes over the lt spot? That's a lot of youth on the left side of the line.

I'm still skeptical of Ezra taking over anywhere. He was 36th out of 40 RG in pass blocking. That doesn't exactly inspire me to move him to LT where he will face the other team's best pass rusher most games. On the other hand, it doesn't inspire me to leave him at RG either.

LT and RG are two totally different positions, especially WRT pass blocking. Anyone simply viewing 2 minutes of Ezra in college would surmise throwing him into a mid-season starting RIGHT GUARD position in the NFL is not a good idea.

Post #: 499

RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 3/11/2021 11:35:23 AM

David Levine

Posts: 77938
Joined: 7/14/2007
From: Las Vegas
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I have no doubt that Cleveland is better suited to play tackle than guard and would perform better as a tackle. The question is how much better? He was epically bad at RG. If it wasn't for playing next to Dozier and replacing Elf and Samia, he would look that much worse. If he is that good of a prospect, we should have expected a little more out of him even if he wasn't playing his best position.

You can show Brian O'Neill as a comp, but that doesn't mean he is going to be that player. O'Neill came into camp and turned heads right away. He forced his way into the lineup within a couple of games and never looked back.

I am not saying in any way shape or form, that with an offseason in the weight room and moving to a more natural position that Cleveland couldn't make huge strides. I'm just saying it's quite a gamble to say he is our LT next year on a line that already has a lot of holes to address.

Offensive line positions are generally not interchangeable. And most of the guys who can do it end up as "super subs" for a reason - because they're not good enough to start at any one position, but can play at least somewhat adequately at multiple ones.

Its like making Pat Williams or Jerry Ball an edge rusher and wondering why they didn't get any sacks.

I have no idea if Ezra is going to be good at OT or not, but I'm not going to hold him playing totally out of position (especially with a COVID shortened rookie offseason) against him.

Post #: 500