quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

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ORIGINAL: TJSweens

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ORIGINAL: joejitsu

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ORIGINAL: TJSweens

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ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

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ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

With Reiff gone an OT has to be a consideration at 14.

The #Vikings watched Rashawn Slater's Pro Day and cut Riley Reiff one day later. Just sayin'......

(Daniel House on Twitter)

You're trying to apply logic here and that has no place in determining how Spielman will addresses the O-line.

True! But, in the event the Trader sees the light and goes with logic, would that mean that Ezra takes over the lt spot? That's a lot of youth on the left side of the line.

I'm still skeptical of Ezra taking over anywhere. He was 36th out of 40 RG in pass blocking. That doesn't exactly inspire me to move him to LT where he will face the other team's best pass rusher most games. On the other hand, it doesn't inspire me to leave him at RG either.

LT and RG are two totally different positions, especially WRT pass blocking. Anyone simply viewing 2 minutes of Ezra in college would surmise throwing him into a mid-season starting RIGHT GUARD position in the NFL is not a good idea.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I have no doubt that Cleveland is better suited to play tackle than guard and would perform better as a tackle. The question is how much better? He was epically bad at RG. If it wasn't for playing next to Dozier and replacing Elf and Samia, he would look that much worse. If he is that good of a prospect, we should have expected a little more out of him even if he wasn't playing his best position.

You can show Brian O'Neill as a comp, but that doesn't mean he is going to be that player. O'Neill came into camp and turned heads right away. He forced his way into the lineup within a couple of games and never looked back.

I am not saying in any way shape or form, that with an offseason in the weight room and moving to a more natural position that Cleveland couldn't make huge strides. I'm just saying it's quite a gamble to say he is our LT next year on a line that already has a lot of holes to address.

Offensive line positions are generally not interchangeable. And most of the guys who can do it end up as "super subs" for a reason - because they're not good enough to start at any one position, but can play at least somewhat adequately at multiple ones.

Its like making Pat Williams or Jerry Ball an edge rusher and wondering why they didn't get any sacks.

I have no idea if Ezra is going to be good at OT or not, but I'm not going to hold him playing totally out of position (especially with a COVID shortened rookie offseason) against him.

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ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

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ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: joejitsu

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

With Reiff gone an OT has to be a consideration at 14.

The #Vikings watched Rashawn Slater's Pro Day and cut Riley Reiff one day later. Just sayin'......

(Daniel House on Twitter)

You're trying to apply logic here and that has no place in determining how Spielman will addresses the O-line.

True! But, in the event the Trader sees the light and goes with logic, would that mean that Ezra takes over the lt spot? That's a lot of youth on the left side of the line.

I'm still skeptical of Ezra taking over anywhere. He was 36th out of 40 RG in pass blocking. That doesn't exactly inspire me to move him to LT where he will face the other team's best pass rusher most games. On the other hand, it doesn't inspire me to leave him at RG either.

LT and RG are two totally different positions, especially WRT pass blocking. Anyone simply viewing 2 minutes of Ezra in college would surmise throwing him into a mid-season starting RIGHT GUARD position in the NFL is not a good idea.

It's not like he was working out at LT and they said what the hell let's throw him in at guard. He was practicing exclusively at guard almost from day 1. It's not like they didn't prepare him to play the position. I didn't expect him to be all pro, but I was hoping for better than bottom 4 pass blockers at the position.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: joejitsu

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

With Reiff gone an OT has to be a consideration at 14.

The #Vikings watched Rashawn Slater's Pro Day and cut Riley Reiff one day later. Just sayin'......

(Daniel House on Twitter)

You're trying to apply logic here and that has no place in determining how Spielman will addresses the O-line.

True! But, in the event the Trader sees the light and goes with logic, would that mean that Ezra takes over the lt spot? That's a lot of youth on the left side of the line.

I'm still skeptical of Ezra taking over anywhere. He was 36th out of 40 RG in pass blocking. That doesn't exactly inspire me to move him to LT where he will face the other team's best pass rusher most games. On the other hand, it doesn't inspire me to leave him at RG either.

LT and RG are two totally different positions, especially WRT pass blocking. Anyone simply viewing 2 minutes of Ezra in college would surmise throwing him into a mid-season starting RIGHT GUARD position in the NFL is not a good idea.

It's not like he was working out at LT and they said what the hell let's throw him in at guard. He was practicing exclusively at guard almost from day 1. It's not like they didn't prepare him to play the position. I didn't expect him to be all pro, but I was hoping for better than bottom 4 pass blockers at the position.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Cleveland's situation would be like starting Hunter midway into in his rookie year at right DT.

Ah, he didn't do well at DT so expect more of the same if we move him to DE, nevermind DE is his natural position and he has experience there

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Cleveland's situation would be like starting Hunter midway into in his rookie year at right DT.

Ah, he didn't do well at DT so expect more of the same if we move him to DE, nevermind DE is his natural position and he has experience there

No, that really isn't a good analogy at all. Downright lousy in fact. Cleveland had the size and physical attributes to play G. Hunter would have about 60 pounds underweight to play DT in his rookie year.

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ORIGINAL: David Levine

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ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: joejitsu

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

With Reiff gone an OT has to be a consideration at 14.

The #Vikings watched Rashawn Slater's Pro Day and cut Riley Reiff one day later. Just sayin'......

(Daniel House on Twitter)

You're trying to apply logic here and that has no place in determining how Spielman will addresses the O-line.

True! But, in the event the Trader sees the light and goes with logic, would that mean that Ezra takes over the lt spot? That's a lot of youth on the left side of the line.

I'm still skeptical of Ezra taking over anywhere. He was 36th out of 40 RG in pass blocking. That doesn't exactly inspire me to move him to LT where he will face the other team's best pass rusher most games. On the other hand, it doesn't inspire me to leave him at RG either.

LT and RG are two totally different positions, especially WRT pass blocking. Anyone simply viewing 2 minutes of Ezra in college would surmise throwing him into a mid-season starting RIGHT GUARD position in the NFL is not a good idea.

It's not like he was working out at LT and they said what the hell let's throw him in at guard. He was practicing exclusively at guard almost from day 1. It's not like they didn't prepare him to play the position. I didn't expect him to be all pro, but I was hoping for better than bottom 4 pass blockers at the position.

We had two solid OTs and garbage at OG.

He was a guy who needed some development time, and he should have been the 3rd OT all year. They never should have tried him at OG, but they were so talent starved that its what they did.

He was set up to fail and he did.

I give him a mulligan on last year.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Cleveland's situation would be like starting Hunter midway into in his rookie year at right DT.

Ah, he didn't do well at DT so expect more of the same if we move him to DE, nevermind DE is his natural position and he has experience there

No, that really isn't a good analogy at all. Downright lousy in fact. Cleveland had the size and physical attributes to play G. Hunter would have about 60 pounds underweight to play DT in his rookie year.

No, it was a good analogy. You not understanding the dynamics is a better analogy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

I have no doubt that Cleveland is better suited to play tackle than guard and would perform better as a tackle. The question is how much better? He was epically bad at RG. If it wasn't for playing next to Dozier and replacing Elf and Samia, he would look that much worse. If he is that good of a prospect, we should have expected a little more out of him even if he wasn't playing his best position.

You can show Brian O'Neill as a comp, but that doesn't mean he is going to be that player. O'Neill came into camp and turned heads right away. He forced his way into the lineup within a couple of games and never looked back.

I am not saying in any way shape or form, that with an offseason in the weight room and moving to a more natural position that Cleveland couldn't make huge strides. I'm just saying it's quite a gamble to say he is our LT next year on a line that already has a lot of holes to address.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: joejitsu

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

With Reiff gone an OT has to be a consideration at 14.

The #Vikings watched Rashawn Slater's Pro Day and cut Riley Reiff one day later. Just sayin'......

(Daniel House on Twitter)

You're trying to apply logic here and that has no place in determining how Spielman will addresses the O-line.

True! But, in the event the Trader sees the light and goes with logic, would that mean that Ezra takes over the lt spot? That's a lot of youth on the left side of the line.

I'm still skeptical of Ezra taking over anywhere. He was 36th out of 40 RG in pass blocking. That doesn't exactly inspire me to move him to LT where he will face the other team's best pass rusher most games. On the other hand, it doesn't inspire me to leave him at RG either.

LT and RG are two totally different positions, especially WRT pass blocking. Anyone simply viewing 2 minutes of Ezra in college would surmise throwing him into a mid-season starting RIGHT GUARD position in the NFL is not a good idea.

It's not like he was working out at LT and they said what the hell let's throw him in at guard. He was practicing exclusively at guard almost from day 1. It's not like they didn't prepare him to play the position. I didn't expect him to be all pro, but I was hoping for better than bottom 4 pass blockers at the position.

We had two solid OTs and garbage at OG.

He was a guy who needed some development time, and he should have been the 3rd OT all year. They never should have tried him at OG, but they were so talent starved that its what they did.

He was set up to fail and he did.

I give him a mulligan on last year.

Oh bullshit. He has the physical tools to play guard. He worked out at G here from day 1. He practiced there through camp, preseason and the first 7 games of the season. He was not set up to fail.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

O'Neill came into camp and turned heads right away. He forced his way into the lineup within a couple of games and never looked back.

More false equivalence.

O'Neill had a RT spot essentially waiting for him. Cleveland was not going to beat out Reiff as everyone understood he needed to gain strength.

AND O'Neill was not dumped into paying LG.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Cleveland's situation would be like starting Hunter midway into in his rookie year at right DT.

Ah, he didn't do well at DT so expect more of the same if we move him to DE, nevermind DE is his natural position and he has experience there

No, that really isn't a good analogy at all. Downright lousy in fact. Cleveland had the size and physical attributes to play G. Hunter would have about 60 pounds underweight to play DT in his rookie year.

No, it was a good analogy. You not understanding the dynamics is a better analogy.

Bill, I am very confident that my understanding of the dynamics is better than yours here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

Cleveland's situation would be like starting Hunter midway into in his rookie year at right DT.

Ah, he didn't do well at DT so expect more of the same if we move him to DE, nevermind DE is his natural position and he has experience there

No, that really isn't a good analogy at all. Downright lousy in fact. Cleveland had the size and physical attributes to play G. Hunter would have about 60 pounds underweight to play DT in his rookie year.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

O'Neill came into camp and turned heads right away. He forced his way into the lineup within a couple of games and never looked back.

More false equivalence.

O'Neill had a RT spot essentially waiting for him. Cleveland was not going to beat out Reiff as everyone understood he needed to gain strength.

AND O'Neill was not dumped into paying LG.

No he didn't. They were even having the same discussions as to whether he should play guard or tackle. If RT was waiting for him, then Hill wouldn't have been the starter to begin the season.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen
Preseason?!?!

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Oh bullshit. He has the physical tools to play guard. He worked out at G here from day 1. He practiced there through camp, preseason and the first 7 games of the season. He was not set up to fail.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

O'Neill came into camp and turned heads right away. He forced his way into the lineup within a couple of games and never looked back.

More false equivalence.

O'Neill had a RT spot essentially waiting for him. Cleveland was not going to beat out Reiff as everyone understood he needed to gain strength.

AND O'Neill was not dumped into paying LG.

No he didn't. They were even having the same discussions as to whether he should play guard or tackle. If RT was waiting for him, then Hill wouldn't have been the starter to begin the season.

Point being O'Neill just needed to gain strength and he was going to play tackle.

There were no serious discussions about O'Neill playing G outside of him getting some experience there. Stop making up shit.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen
Preseason?!?!

Roll your eyes all you want Bill. That was still time he working out exclusively at the position. You can push the narrative that they threw him in there with no preparation all you want. That isn't what happened. That's why they didn't throw him out there in week 1. And I would point out that there a lot of posters in here who thought they should have him as a starting guard week 1.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

O'Neill came into camp and turned heads right away. He forced his way into the lineup within a couple of games and never looked back.

More false equivalence.

O'Neill had a RT spot essentially waiting for him. Cleveland was not going to beat out Reiff as everyone understood he needed to gain strength.

AND O'Neill was not dumped into paying LG.

No he didn't. They were even having the same discussions as to whether he should play guard or tackle. If RT was waiting for him, then Hill wouldn't have been the starter to begin the season.

Point being O'Neill just needed to gain strength and he was going to play tackle.

There were no serious discussions about O'Neill playing G outside of him getting some experience there. Stop making up shit.

Making shit up? How Trumpian of you. Falsely accuse me of the thing you are doing yourself.

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Oh bullshit. He has the physical tools to play guard. He worked out at G here from day 1. He practiced there through camp, preseason and the first 7 games of the season. He was not set up to fail.

That is the very definition of setting up to fail.

He never should've taken a single snap at OG.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

O'Neill came into camp and turned heads right away. He forced his way into the lineup within a couple of games and never looked back.

More false equivalence.

O'Neill had a RT spot essentially waiting for him. Cleveland was not going to beat out Reiff as everyone understood he needed to gain strength.

AND O'Neill was not dumped into paying LG.

No he didn't. They were even having the same discussions as to whether he should play guard or tackle. If RT was waiting for him, then Hill wouldn't have been the starter to begin the season.

Point being O'Neill just needed to gain strength and he was going to play tackle.

There were no serious discussions about O'Neill playing G outside of him getting some experience there. Stop making up shit.

Making shit up? How Trumpian of you. Falsely accuse me of the thing you are doing yourself.

I don't know how you try to save face on your lack of understanding the issue since you've quadrupled down. Maybe go on an extended lunch or vacation.