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RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 4/24/2021 10:25:49 AM   
Hats4Bats


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From: Austin, Minnesota
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My only hope is this: (I had a dream!)

Spielman wiill placate Zimmer. "I will get you all the defense you need in free agency, BUT I get to draft OG, OT, WR and a QBOTF early in this draft?

Ok coach?"

Then I woke up

Coach: "Nope still need a Edge, DT, CB, and Safety" You know I only like Undrafted OL Spiels? Comm'on MAN!" " We got Dennison for Pete's sake!!"

_____________________________

Hats for Bats - - Keep Bats warm
Post #: 1151
RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 4/24/2021 10:29:13 AM   
Bill Jandro

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
over the last day i've seen brown rated as the 22nd best o-tackle in 2020, and then rated the 25th best o-tackle in 2020...anyone know what reiff was ranked?...i would have thought better than that....


We couldn't fit either into our cap.

A rstructure of Cousins next season and what could be a huge leap (20-25ml) in the cap it would be doable.

But we may have had to say goodbye to O'Neal.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 1152
RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 4/24/2021 10:31:09 AM   
Bill Jandro

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: stfrank

We all know this years draft needs to be all about O-Line, but having said that.........
Who do you think will be our first round CB this year?


We researched all year and lined up our board. As things proceeded and unfolded, we stayed put and stayed true to our board knowing we were positioned well. When Caleb Farley was there, he was far and away at the top of our board at 14, a consensus pick. We checked his medicals thoroughly and believe he will make an immediate contribution beginning this offseason.

You've been on a roll lately at predicting the Rickspeak post draft presser.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 1153
RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 4/24/2021 10:48:15 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28604
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: stfrank

We all know this years draft needs to be all about O-Line, but having said that.........
Who do you think will be our first round CB this year?


We researched all year and lined up our board. As things proceeded and unfolded, we stayed put and stayed true to our board knowing we were positioned well. When Caleb Farley was there, he was far and away at the top of our board at 14, a consensus pick. We checked his medicals thoroughly and believe he will make an immediate contribution beginning this offseason.

You've been on a roll lately at predicting the Rickspeak post draft presser.


If he took a truth pill it would be yeah, we couldn't wait to trade down because we are are atrocious picking in the top 20. When you consider the higher contracts with top picks, we're happy to trade down w/o receiving anything in return.
Post #: 1154
RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 4/24/2021 11:19:27 AM   
Bill Johanesen


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Article on Paye and fleeing Africa. Warning, for those who are anti-immigration even if your spouse immigrated it might make you mad.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2021/story/_/id/31310483/meet-nfl-draft-most-extraordinary-prospect-kwity-paye

Wouldn't cry over the pick. Initially I thought he was 6' 4, 275 but he is likely smaller. And we never did address the OL in free agency.
Post #: 1155
RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 4/24/2021 11:41:06 AM   
ratoppenheimer


Posts: 9563
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
over the last day i've seen brown rated as the 22nd best o-tackle in 2020, and then rated the 25th best o-tackle in 2020...anyone know what reiff was ranked?...i would have thought better than that....


We couldn't fit either into our cap.



reiff is making $7.5m/yr at cincinnati - I would have given him a three-year back-loaded deal for that average....

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.
Post #: 1156
RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 4/24/2021 1:13:23 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28604
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
over the last day i've seen brown rated as the 22nd best o-tackle in 2020, and then rated the 25th best o-tackle in 2020...anyone know what reiff was ranked?...i would have thought better than that....


We couldn't fit either into our cap.



reiff is making $7.5m/yr at cincinnati - I would have given him a three-year back-loaded deal for that average....


I think we had exhausted the gimmick contracts and reworks with Reiff.

And perhaps we've back-loaded enough.
Post #: 1157
RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 4/24/2021 2:20:57 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

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Joined: 7/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

What shocked me about the Brown Jr trade was that Baltimore (while getting a good haul) traded him to a team that will now more than likely knock them out in the playoffs.

The compensation from interested NFC teams (Vikings) must have been laughable for Baltimore to do this.

Hadn't thought about that, its true.

In the old days, we would have never traded a good player to one of our competitors.

It would be like us trading a good player to an NFC 8-8 team nowadays.
Post #: 1158
RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 4/24/2021 2:35:43 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: stfrank

We all know this years draft needs to be all about O-Line, but having said that.........
Who do you think will be our first round CB this year?


We researched all year and lined up our board. As things proceeded and unfolded, we stayed put and stayed true to our board knowing we were positioned well. When Caleb Farley was there, he was far and away at the top of our board at 14, a consensus pick. We checked his medicals thoroughly and believe he will make an immediate contribution beginning this offseason.

You've been on a roll lately at predicting the Rickspeak post draft presser.

I'm afraid we've lost Bill to multiple draft personalities.

< Message edited by Tom Sykes -- 4/25/2021 8:06:46 AM >
Post #: 1159
RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 4/24/2021 2:39:00 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
over the last day i've seen brown rated as the 22nd best o-tackle in 2020, and then rated the 25th best o-tackle in 2020...anyone know what reiff was ranked?...i would have thought better than that....


We couldn't fit either into our cap.



reiff is making $7.5m/yr at cincinnati - I would have given him a three-year back-loaded deal for that average....

Cincinnati doing that is 'showing that they really want the player."

If we offered that, it would have been an insulting paycut.
Post #: 1160
RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 4/24/2021 3:28:17 PM   
ratoppenheimer


Posts: 9563
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
over the last day i've seen brown rated as the 22nd best o-tackle in 2020, and then rated the 25th best o-tackle in 2020...anyone know what reiff was ranked?...i would have thought better than that....


We couldn't fit either into our cap.



reiff is making $7.5m/yr at cincinnati - I would have given him a three-year back-loaded deal for that average....

Cincinnati doing that is 'showing that they really want the player."

If we offered that, it would have been an insulting paycut.



i wonder if we stayed in the mix, or just let him go....

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.
Post #: 1161
RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 4/24/2021 3:38:05 PM   
ratoppenheimer


Posts: 9563
Joined: 12/9/2007
From: cascais, portugal...still in exile
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
over the last day i've seen brown rated as the 22nd best o-tackle in 2020, and then rated the 25th best o-tackle in 2020...anyone know what reiff was ranked?...i would have thought better than that....


We couldn't fit either into our cap.



reiff is making $7.5m/yr at cincinnati - I would have given him a three-year back-loaded deal for that average....


I think we had exhausted the gimmick contracts and reworks with Reiff.

And perhaps we've back-loaded enough.


letting reiff go made some sense if they saw cleveland as the future, but then brown emerged as a possibility and so many jumped on that bandwagon - more money - probable long-term deal - questionable team character...from my perspective, it started to make letting reiff go very unfortunate....

_____________________________

the journey...is paradise.
Post #: 1162
RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 4/24/2021 4:17:20 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
over the last day i've seen brown rated as the 22nd best o-tackle in 2020, and then rated the 25th best o-tackle in 2020...anyone know what reiff was ranked?...i would have thought better than that....


We couldn't fit either into our cap.



reiff is making $7.5m/yr at cincinnati - I would have given him a three-year back-loaded deal for that average....

Cincinnati doing that is 'showing that they really want the player."

If we offered that, it would have been an insulting paycut.



i wonder if we stayed in the mix, or just let him go....

We seem to make offers to most of our own, even though they are despised by fans and reviled in the media.

some are probably just gestures but we keep taking back players we shouldn't. (not talking about Reiff)

< Message edited by Tom Sykes -- 4/24/2021 5:51:30 PM >
Post #: 1163
RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 4/24/2021 6:46:16 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

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This is about weighing draft impact on DL vs OL
There are too many combos to list, this is just a few
For the sake of argument, I'm putting O'Neill at LT before Cleveland
Assuming we don't acquire a 2nd rd pick
Drafted players are picked out of a hat ...


1st rd DE Kwity Paye and two OL in rds 3-4

O'Neill - Green - Bradbury - Carman - Cleveland [G Kendrick Green in rd 3, G Jackson Carman in rd 4]

O'Neill - Carman - Bradbury - Christensen - Cleveland [OT Brady Christensen in rd 3, G Jackson Carman in rd 4]

O'Neill - Green - Bradbury - Doyle - Cleveland [OG Kendrick Green in rd 3, OT Tommy Doyle in rd 4]

But you get = Hunter / Pierce / Tomlinson / Kwity Paye


First rd OL, DE Ossai and G Green in 3rd

Darrisaw/Slater - Green - Bradbury - Cleveland - O'Neill [Darrisaw/Slater in 1st, G Kendrick Green in 3rd]

O'Neill - Vera-Tucker - Bradbury - Green - Cleveland (Vera-Tucker in 1st, G Kendrick Green in 3rd]

But you get Hunter / Pierce / Tomlinson / Ossai in a rotation
Post #: 1164
RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 4/24/2021 6:55:43 PM   
Mark Anderson

 

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Joined: 9/1/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

This is about weighing draft impact on DL vs OL
There are too many combos to list, this is just a few
For the sake of argument, I'm putting O'Neill at LT before Cleveland
Assuming we don't acquire a 2nd rd pick
Drafted players are picked out of a hat ...


1st rd DE Kwity Paye and two OL in rds 3-4

O'Neill - Green - Bradbury - Carman - Cleveland [G Kendrick Green in rd 3, G Jackson Carman in rd 4]

O'Neill - Carman - Bradbury - Christensen - Cleveland [OT Brady Christensen in rd 3, G Jackson Carman in rd 4]

O'Neill - Green - Bradbury - Doyle - Cleveland [OG Kendrick Green in rd 3, OT Tommy Doyle in rd 4]

But you get = Hunter / Pierce / Tomlinson / Kwity Paye


First rd OL, DE Ossai and G Green in 3rd

Darrisaw/Slater - Green - Bradbury - Cleveland - O'Neill [Darrisaw/Slater in 1st, G Kendrick Green in 3rd]

O'Neill - Vera-Tucker - Bradbury - Green - Cleveland (Vera-Tucker in 1st, G Kendrick Green in 3rd]

But you get Hunter / Pierce / Tomlinson / Ossai in a rotation

Go 1st round OLine route.

Wonnum showed flashes and should improve his 2nd year. Just get a rotational guy.

I like Odeyingbo. He tore his achilles but could pay off huge in future. Kind of like Simmons in Tennessee.

< Message edited by Mark Anderson -- 4/24/2021 6:59:32 PM >
Post #: 1165
RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 4/24/2021 7:32:04 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

This is about weighing draft impact on DL vs OL
There are too many combos to list, this is just a few
For the sake of argument, I'm putting O'Neill at LT before Cleveland
Assuming we don't acquire a 2nd rd pick
Drafted players are picked out of a hat ...


1st rd DE Kwity Paye and two OL in rds 3-4

O'Neill - Green - Bradbury - Carman - Cleveland [G Kendrick Green in rd 3, G Jackson Carman in rd 4]

O'Neill - Carman - Bradbury - Christensen - Cleveland [OT Brady Christensen in rd 3, G Jackson Carman in rd 4]

O'Neill - Green - Bradbury - Doyle - Cleveland [OG Kendrick Green in rd 3, OT Tommy Doyle in rd 4]

But you get = Hunter / Pierce / Tomlinson / Kwity Paye


First rd OL, DE Ossai and G Green in 3rd

Darrisaw/Slater - Green - Bradbury - Cleveland - O'Neill [Darrisaw/Slater in 1st, G Kendrick Green in 3rd]

O'Neill - Vera-Tucker - Bradbury - Green - Cleveland (Vera-Tucker in 1st, G Kendrick Green in 3rd]

But you get Hunter / Pierce / Tomlinson / Ossai in a rotation

Go 1st round OLine route.

Wonnum showed flashes and should improve his 2nd year. Just get a rotational guy.

I like Odeyingbo. He tore his achilles but could pay off huge in future. Kind of like Simmons in Tennessee.

If we stay at 14 an OT if available would probably be my choice (Darrisaw Slater over Paye Phillips) although you shoot yourself in the foot with Cleveland staying at G.

Darrisaw Slater are much better college players than Cleveland ... so BPA and all that but if you want to utilize what you already have invested to its fullest, you trade back, pray for Vera-Tucker (and another G in third) and play Cleveland O’Neill at OT.

I like Dayo too, have us taking him in draft challenge.

< Message edited by Tom Sykes -- 4/24/2021 10:00:44 PM >
Post #: 1166
RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 4/25/2021 7:50:40 AM   
Bill Jandro

 

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Maybe trade back and take Leatherwood or Aloa Vera

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 1167
RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 4/25/2021 9:28:43 AM   
Bill Johanesen


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"...but if you want to utilize what you already have invested to its fullest, you trade back, pray for Vera-Tucker (and another G in third) and play Cleveland O’Neill at OT."

All good, especially the part on Cleveland although Aloe Vera is not prayer worthy but I get what you mean. People think playing Cleveland at G is addressing one G spot. No, he was part of the problem at G. He was a tackle in college so give him a shot at tackle.

Drafting a tackle like Darrisaw to play tackle doesn't address guard at all.
Post #: 1168
RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 4/25/2021 9:36:08 AM   
Bill Johanesen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Maybe trade back and take Leatherwood or Aloa Vera


Get them both. Trade to 19/20 and pick Aloe, then possibly trade up from 78 to pick Leatherwood.

Or trade down and take Leatherwood for G plus his partners in crime G Brown and C Dickerson (medical, should drop). There will be no such thing as bull rush any more.
Post #: 1169
RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 4/25/2021 9:43:48 AM   
Bill Johanesen


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Pro Football Focus listed Dickerson as the top-rated run-blocking center (92.8) while ranking No. 2 among centers. Landon allowed only five total pressures and earned an elite run-blocking grade, especially in zone blocking.

Dickerson is a stud in pass protection who has extremely strong hands, so once he gets a hold on you, there is no forward momentum. He’s extremely strong at the point of attack, he has above average hand power, body strength, and awareness. He’s got a very high football IQ, which allows him to pick up stunts. He’s also very patient at picking up linebackers at the second level who are looking to close on his running back.

Dickerson has quick feet, a good shuffle, and he has very loose hips that he can swing to gain leverage and keeping that leverage throughout the snap and read.

Deonte Brown
SI analyst Jim Mora Jr.: "He’s a big, wide body offensive guard. He’s going to fit best in a power-run scheme where he’s doubling down on the nose [tackle], and then come off and get the linebacker on the second level, which is not something that he does great. But he’s a guy if someone tries and bull-rush him, it’s like hitting a brick wall: Bam!. They’re never going to be able to push him back into the quarterback. There’s value there."

I don't even like Alabama, especially Saban showing his face at the draft.

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 4/25/2021 9:48:32 AM >
Post #: 1170
RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 4/25/2021 9:48:55 AM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

"...but if you want to utilize what you already have invested to its fullest, you trade back, pray for Vera-Tucker (and another G in third) and play Cleveland O’Neill at OT."

All good, especially the part on Cleveland although Aloe Vera is not prayer worthy but I get what you mean. People think playing Cleveland at G is addressing one G spot. No, he was part of the problem at G. He was a tackle in college so give him a shot at tackle.

Drafting a tackle like Darrisaw to play tackle doesn't address guard at all.

Thats right, Vera-Tucker is not all that. But he is your best chance in this draft to fill one solid starting G (+ some possible emergency T potential ... and our OL is always a firedrill). If you cant pull the trigger on him at 14, get cute and move back a few spots and he’s not there anymore ...

You are back to filling your gaping holes with 3rd rd prospects, fill in OTs or Dozier Mason. (I dont see a worthy 2nd rd G).

Again, the early 1st OTs are better looking prospects than ATV ... maybe we are one more draft away from truly upgrading Reiff Dozier Bradbury Cleveland O’Neill. Maybe never with Spielman.

< Message edited by Tom Sykes -- 4/25/2021 9:49:59 AM >
Post #: 1171
RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 4/25/2021 10:00:01 AM   
Bill Johanesen


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Status: offline
Just saw this site, good feature is the Big Board by position or positions. So you can see for example Aloe Vera is the top IOL but add in OT and he is the fourth rated player.

http://www.tankathon.com/nfl/big_board
Post #: 1172
RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 4/25/2021 10:05:09 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28604
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

"...but if you want to utilize what you already have invested to its fullest, you trade back, pray for Vera-Tucker (and another G in third) and play Cleveland O’Neill at OT."

All good, especially the part on Cleveland although Aloe Vera is not prayer worthy but I get what you mean. People think playing Cleveland at G is addressing one G spot. No, he was part of the problem at G. He was a tackle in college so give him a shot at tackle.

Drafting a tackle like Darrisaw to play tackle doesn't address guard at all.

Thats right, Vera-Tucker is not all that. But he is your best chance in this draft to fill one solid starting G (+ some possible emergency T potential ... and our OL is always a firedrill). If you cant pull the trigger on him at 14, get cute and move back a few spots and he’s not there anymore ...

You are back to filling your gaping holes with 3rd rd prospects, fill in OTs or Dozier Mason. (I dont see a worthy 2nd rd G).

Again, the early 1st OTs are better looking prospects than ATV ... maybe we are one more draft away from truly upgrading Reiff Dozier Bradbury Cleveland O’Neill. Maybe never with Spielman.


I get that but if he's not there in a small trade down, then trade back some more and double down on say Wyatt Davis and Trey Smith or a couple of others. There is a middle ground before 3rd rd prospects. Yes it depends on what you see as second rounders.

Tucker can't be the only legit guard in the draft, can he?

< Message edited by Bill Johanesen -- 4/25/2021 10:08:18 AM >
Post #: 1173
RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 4/25/2021 10:29:15 AM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

"...but if you want to utilize what you already have invested to its fullest, you trade back, pray for Vera-Tucker (and another G in third) and play Cleveland O’Neill at OT."

All good, especially the part on Cleveland although Aloe Vera is not prayer worthy but I get what you mean. People think playing Cleveland at G is addressing one G spot. No, he was part of the problem at G. He was a tackle in college so give him a shot at tackle.

Drafting a tackle like Darrisaw to play tackle doesn't address guard at all.

Thats right, Vera-Tucker is not all that. But he is your best chance in this draft to fill one solid starting G (+ some possible emergency T potential ... and our OL is always a firedrill). If you cant pull the trigger on him at 14, get cute and move back a few spots and he’s not there anymore ...

You are back to filling your gaping holes with 3rd rd prospects, fill in OTs or Dozier Mason. (I dont see a worthy 2nd rd G).

Again, the early 1st OTs are better looking prospects than ATV ... maybe we are one more draft away from truly upgrading Reiff Dozier Bradbury Cleveland O’Neill. Maybe never with Spielman.


I get that but if he's not there in a small trade down, then trade back some more and double down on say Wyatt Davis and Trey Smith or a couple of others. There is a middle ground before 3rd rd prospects. Yes it depends on what you see as second rounders.

Tucker can't be the only legit guard in the draft, can he?

Avt is no Quinten Nelson. He’s a little more well-rounded and readier than the second tier Gs but there is no way you line up your board around him, no way ... I doubt we go OL anyway.

I guess I should take consolation in that ANY G in the first 4 rds is potentially better than Dozier.

< Message edited by Tom Sykes -- 4/25/2021 12:03:55 PM >
Post #: 1174
RE: NFL Draft 2021 - 4/25/2021 10:35:05 AM   
Tom Sykes

 

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Without knowing how good Cleveland is or what our plan for him is. if there is a plan - its impossible to identify or project OL. draft priorities. As if we could anyway.
Post #: 1175
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