quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

I'm glad we didn't trade for OBJ. And to compare KC, who got to the SB for a second straight year, to the Vikes is not a great choice. We have multiple holes on the oline, need a DE, and have to start planning for life after Harrison Smith. To use the equivalent of the 16th pick and 18-20M in cap space would have been poor team building, imo. When you've got Mahomes, you can make moves like this.

I have plenty of issues with the FO and coaching but hold up this trade as the example, I don't agree with.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

I'm glad we didn't trade for OBJ. And to compare KC, who got to the SB for a second straight year, to the Vikes is not a great choice. We have multiple holes on the oline, need a DE, and have to start planning for life after Harrison Smith. To use the equivalent of the 16th pick and 18-20M in cap space would have been poor team building, imo. When you've got Mahomes, you can make moves like this.

I have plenty of issues with the FO and coaching but hold up this trade as the example, I don't agree with.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

Without knowing how good Cleveland is or what our plan for him is. if there is a plan - its impossible to identify or project OL. draft priorities. As if we could anyway.

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

Without knowing how good Cleveland is or what our plan for him is. if there is a plan - its impossible to identify or project OL. draft priorities. As if we could anyway.

Spielman spent a 2nd round pick on Cleveland with the idea that he would sit him a year and then replace Reiff (and his salary) with a quality LT on the cheap for 5 years. The fact that Samia is completely unable to play pro football forced Zimmer to play Cleveland out of position for a year instead of sitting him as a backup LT. If RS does not follow through this year and approach the draft with the idea of starting Cleveland at LT, then that is one more botched “effort” by RS to fix our oline and it will prove once again that RS has no actual long-term draft strategy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

Without knowing how good Cleveland is or what our plan for him is. if there is a plan - its impossible to identify or project OL. draft priorities. As if we could anyway.

Spielman spent a 2nd round pick on Cleveland with the idea that he would sit him a year and then replace Reiff (and his salary) with a quality LT on the cheap for 5 years. The fact that Samia is completely unable to play pro football forced Zimmer to play Cleveland out of position for a year instead of sitting him as a backup LT. If RS does not follow through this year and approach the draft with the idea of starting Cleveland at LT, then that is one more botched “effort” by RS to fix our oline and it will prove once again that RS has no actual long-term draft strategy.

pff graded Cleveland in the 80s three years in a row - he's athletic and benched pressed 30 reps of 225....


To recap, Brown ran the 40-yard dash in 5.85 seconds – the slowest of any player at the event. He posted just 14 reps on the bench press. His vertical jump (19.5 inches) and broad jump (82 inches) were also dead last among all prospects.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

Without knowing how good Cleveland is or what our plan for him is. if there is a plan - its impossible to identify or project OL. draft priorities. As if we could anyway.

Spielman spent a 2nd round pick on Cleveland with the idea that he would sit him a year and then replace Reiff (and his salary) with a quality LT on the cheap for 5 years. The fact that Samia is completely unable to play pro football forced Zimmer to play Cleveland out of position for a year instead of sitting him as a backup LT. If RS does not follow through this year and approach the draft with the idea of starting Cleveland at LT, then that is one more botched “effort” by RS to fix our oline and it will prove once again that RS has no actual long-term draft strategy.

pff graded Cleveland in the 80s three years in a row - he's athletic and benched pressed 30 reps of 225....


To recap, Brown ran the 40-yard dash in 5.85 seconds – the slowest of any player at the event. He posted just 14 reps on the bench press. His vertical jump (19.5 inches) and broad jump (82 inches) were also dead last among all prospects.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

Without knowing how good Cleveland is or what our plan for him is. if there is a plan - its impossible to identify or project OL. draft priorities. As if we could anyway.

Spielman spent a 2nd round pick on Cleveland with the idea that he would sit him a year and then replace Reiff (and his salary) with a quality LT on the cheap for 5 years. The fact that Samia is completely unable to play pro football forced Zimmer to play Cleveland out of position for a year instead of sitting him as a backup LT. If RS does not follow through this year and approach the draft with the idea of starting Cleveland at LT, then that is one more botched “effort” by RS to fix our oline and it will prove once again that RS has no actual long-term draft strategy.

pff graded Cleveland in the 80s three years in a row - he's athletic and benched pressed 30 reps of 225....


To recap, Brown ran the 40-yard dash in 5.85 seconds – the slowest of any player at the event. He posted just 14 reps on the bench press. His vertical jump (19.5 inches) and broad jump (82 inches) were also dead last among all prospects.

Yet he 's been a pro bowler 2 of his first 3 seasons.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

Without knowing how good Cleveland is or what our plan for him is. if there is a plan - its impossible to identify or project OL. draft priorities. As if we could anyway.

Spielman spent a 2nd round pick on Cleveland with the idea that he would sit him a year and then replace Reiff (and his salary) with a quality LT on the cheap for 5 years. The fact that Samia is completely unable to play pro football forced Zimmer to play Cleveland out of position for a year instead of sitting him as a backup LT. If RS does not follow through this year and approach the draft with the idea of starting Cleveland at LT, then that is one more botched “effort” by RS to fix our oline and it will prove once again that RS has no actual long-term draft strategy.

pff graded Cleveland in the 80s three years in a row - he's athletic and benched pressed 30 reps of 225....


To recap, Brown ran the 40-yard dash in 5.85 seconds – the slowest of any player at the event. He posted just 14 reps on the bench press. His vertical jump (19.5 inches) and broad jump (82 inches) were also dead last among all prospects.

By most accounts Cleveland was an athletic draft weakling needing core strength development. The bench presses indicate nice man-boobs more than power. The weight room numbers do show his willingness to work, which is good.

We simply do not know what we have in Cleveland. A 2nd rd grade is no guarantee of starter success (no round is). I give him a pass at G last year, he being a rookie and it being a new position. But if my plan is to cover LT with Cleveland / Hill this year, I am definitely adding another OT prospect - no later than the third rd, to add to the mix / hoping for some luck.

Engulfer Brown obviously knows how to use his frame and size to get after people, in spite of a severe lack of movement skills. Again, I was surprised we even contacted the Ravens about Brown, he is so different from Spielman's OT template. It gives me hope we might draft or sign someone with some core strength and anchor, and not simply tall and athletic.

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

Without knowing how good Cleveland is or what our plan for him is. if there is a plan - its impossible to identify or project OL. draft priorities. As if we could anyway.

Spielman spent a 2nd round pick on Cleveland with the idea that he would sit him a year and then replace Reiff (and his salary) with a quality LT on the cheap for 5 years. The fact that Samia is completely unable to play pro football forced Zimmer to play Cleveland out of position for a year instead of sitting him as a backup LT. If RS does not follow through this year and approach the draft with the idea of starting Cleveland at LT, then that is one more botched “effort” by RS to fix our oline and it will prove once again that RS has no actual long-term draft strategy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

I listen to a lot of talk radio, the Stanford QB would be an interesting pick in the later rounds from what I heard from a few scouts on the radio.

Not going to pretend to know a lot about him but what they said makes sense.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

Without knowing how good Cleveland is or what our plan for him is. if there is a plan - its impossible to identify or project OL. draft priorities. As if we could anyway.

Spielman spent a 2nd round pick on Cleveland with the idea that he would sit him a year and then replace Reiff (and his salary) with a quality LT on the cheap for 5 years. The fact that Samia is completely unable to play pro football forced Zimmer to play Cleveland out of position for a year instead of sitting him as a backup LT. If RS does not follow through this year and approach the draft with the idea of starting Cleveland at LT, then that is one more botched “effort” by RS to fix our oline and it will prove once again that RS has no actual long-term draft strategy.

pff graded Cleveland in the 80s three years in a row - he's athletic and benched pressed 30 reps of 225....


To recap, Brown ran the 40-yard dash in 5.85 seconds – the slowest of any player at the event. He posted just 14 reps on the bench press. His vertical jump (19.5 inches) and broad jump (82 inches) were also dead last among all prospects.

By most accounts Cleveland was an athletic draft weakling needing core strength development. The bench presses indicate nice man-boobs more than power. The weight room numbers do show his willingness to work, which is good.

We simply do not know what we have in Cleveland. A 2nd rd grade is no guarantee of starter success (no round is). I give him a pass at G last year, he being a rookie and it being a new position. But if my plan is to cover LT with Cleveland / Hill this year, I am definitely adding another OT prospect - no later than the third rd, to add to the mix / hoping for some luck.

Engulfer Brown obviously knows how to use his frame and size to get after people, in spite of a severe lack of movement skills. Again, I was surprised we even contacted the Ravens about Brown, he is so different from Spielman's OT template. It gives me hope we might draft or sign someone with some core strength and anchor, and not simply tall and athletic.

I actually think we might be OK at LT between Hill and Cleveland, unless Cleveland has no shot at being a starter-level LT. That may be part of the equation: maybe the coaches watched Cleveland early and determined he doesn't have it at LT. I know people are going to say our staff has no clue, but it may also be that they're getting a steady stream of shit to populate to OL and being told that it either is gold already or that it's their job to turn it to gold.

All that said, I'm thinking Slater or the USC kid both because they have the best chance to help immediately at OG and may also offer options at OT. I'd also take a good tackle, but there continues to be an absence of anything at guard, especially in pass pro where Cleveland (and Bradbury) are both bad.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hats4Bats

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

I listen to a lot of talk radio, the Stanford QB would be an interesting pick in the later rounds from what I heard from a few scouts on the radio.

Not going to pretend to know a lot about him but what they said makes sense.

Buzz around Stanford’s Davis Mills has analysts projecting the QB into the first round
by Gabe Lehman
Apr 23, 2021

A former five-star recruit, an imposing 6-foot-4 frame, deadly accuracy, talent to throw for over 500 yards in a game - these are all traits generally attributed to college quarterbacks with first-round buzz.

However, that hasn’t always been the case for Stanford’s Davis Mills. That is, until very recently.

Coming out of high school, Mills was one of the top prospects in the country. Though, after battling injuries early in his career and then with a shortened final season due to the COVID-19 pandemic, he ended up making just 11 career starts for the Cardinal.

Though it was limited, Mills made the most out of those 11 starts. He finished his career with a 65.5% completion percentage, just 1.1% lower than consensus No. 1 overall pick, Trevor Lawrence. He also holds the Stanford record for most passing yards in a single game with 504. That means he had more yards in a game than Cardinal greats John Elway and Andrew Luck - two of the most-hyped quarterback prospects of all time and both first-overall selections in their respective drafts.

As Stanford head coach David Shaw explained on the Haberman & Middlekauff podcast, Mills “is one of those evaluations where you’re not looking at what he does well, you say ‘is there anything he doesn’t do well?”

Even so, until the past few weeks, Mills had been somewhat of a draft afterthought as it relates to first-round quarterback buzz. There was little fanfare when he declared for the draft last December compared to other QBs from around the country.

But after an excellent pro day, his draft momentum appears to be peaking at just the right time.

If he would drop to 3rd rd? MAYBE?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

Without knowing how good Cleveland is or what our plan for him is. if there is a plan - its impossible to identify or project OL. draft priorities. As if we could anyway.

Spielman spent a 2nd round pick on Cleveland with the idea that he would sit him a year and then replace Reiff (and his salary) with a quality LT on the cheap for 5 years. The fact that Samia is completely unable to play pro football forced Zimmer to play Cleveland out of position for a year instead of sitting him as a backup LT. If RS does not follow through this year and approach the draft with the idea of starting Cleveland at LT, then that is one more botched “effort” by RS to fix our oline and it will prove once again that RS has no actual long-term draft strategy.

pff graded Cleveland in the 80s three years in a row - he's athletic and benched pressed 30 reps of 225....


To recap, Brown ran the 40-yard dash in 5.85 seconds – the slowest of any player at the event. He posted just 14 reps on the bench press. His vertical jump (19.5 inches) and broad jump (82 inches) were also dead last among all prospects.

By most accounts Cleveland was an athletic draft weakling needing core strength development. The bench presses indicate nice man-boobs more than power. The weight room numbers do show his willingness to work, which is good.

We simply do not know what we have in Cleveland. A 2nd rd grade is no guarantee of starter success (no round is). I give him a pass at G last year, he being a rookie and it being a new position. But if my plan is to cover LT with Cleveland / Hill this year, I am definitely adding another OT prospect - no later than the third rd, to add to the mix / hoping for some luck.

Engulfer Brown obviously knows how to use his frame and size to get after people, in spite of a severe lack of movement skills. Again, I was surprised we even contacted the Ravens about Brown, he is so different from Spielman's OT template. It gives me hope we might draft or sign someone with some core strength and anchor, and not simply tall and athletic.

I actually think we might be OK at LT between Hill and Cleveland, unless Cleveland has no shot at being a starter-level LT. That may be part of the equation: maybe the coaches watched Cleveland early and determined he doesn't have it at LT. I know people are going to say our staff has no clue, but it may also be that they're getting a steady stream of shit to populate to OL and being told that it either is gold already or that it's their job to turn it to gold.

All that said, I'm thinking Slater or the USC kid both because they have the best chance to help immediately at OG and may also offer options at OT. I'd also take a good tackle, but there continues to be an absence of anything at guard, especially in pass pro where Cleveland (and Bradbury) are both bad.

Or they determined from Cleveland's college years, workouts, and limited time in camp that he just might have what it takes at LT with some added strength. So much so that they essentially red-shirted him then let Reiff walk (cap related issues as well).

No telling how he could or will pan out at T, but an organization with a clue understands a second rounder should have a chance to compete at the position he was drafted at. Spielman brushes that aside saying its on the coaches to see, and we'll put our "best five" out there.

Screw development, let's go with the T.J. Clemmons blueprint!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hats4Bats

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

I listen to a lot of talk radio, the Stanford QB would be an interesting pick in the later rounds from what I heard from a few scouts on the radio.

Not going to pretend to know a lot about him but what they said makes sense.

Buzz around Stanford’s Davis Mills has analysts projecting the QB into the first round
by Gabe Lehman
Apr 23, 2021

A former five-star recruit, an imposing 6-foot-4 frame, deadly accuracy, talent to throw for over 500 yards in a game - these are all traits generally attributed to college quarterbacks with first-round buzz.

However, that hasn’t always been the case for Stanford’s Davis Mills. That is, until very recently.

Coming out of high school, Mills was one of the top prospects in the country. Though, after battling injuries early in his career and then with a shortened final season due to the COVID-19 pandemic, he ended up making just 11 career starts for the Cardinal.

Though it was limited, Mills made the most out of those 11 starts. He finished his career with a 65.5% completion percentage, just 1.1% lower than consensus No. 1 overall pick, Trevor Lawrence. He also holds the Stanford record for most passing yards in a single game with 504. That means he had more yards in a game than Cardinal greats John Elway and Andrew Luck - two of the most-hyped quarterback prospects of all time and both first-overall selections in their respective drafts.

As Stanford head coach David Shaw explained on the Haberman & Middlekauff podcast, Mills “is one of those evaluations where you’re not looking at what he does well, you say ‘is there anything he doesn’t do well?”

Even so, until the past few weeks, Mills had been somewhat of a draft afterthought as it relates to first-round quarterback buzz. There was little fanfare when he declared for the draft last December compared to other QBs from around the country.

But after an excellent pro day, his draft momentum appears to be peaking at just the right time.

If he would drop to 3rd rd? MAYBE?

Not a bad idea, but the article leaves out his pedestrian 18-8 TD to Int ratio (Fields was 56-7). YPA was 7.9.

3rd round seems about right.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hats4Bats

quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

I listen to a lot of talk radio, the Stanford QB would be an interesting pick in the later rounds from what I heard from a few scouts on the radio.

Not going to pretend to know a lot about him but what they said makes sense.

Buzz around Stanford’s Davis Mills has analysts projecting the QB into the first round
by Gabe Lehman
Apr 23, 2021

A former five-star recruit, an imposing 6-foot-4 frame, deadly accuracy, talent to throw for over 500 yards in a game - these are all traits generally attributed to college quarterbacks with first-round buzz.

However, that hasn’t always been the case for Stanford’s Davis Mills. That is, until very recently.

Coming out of high school, Mills was one of the top prospects in the country. Though, after battling injuries early in his career and then with a shortened final season due to the COVID-19 pandemic, he ended up making just 11 career starts for the Cardinal.

Though it was limited, Mills made the most out of those 11 starts. He finished his career with a 65.5% completion percentage, just 1.1% lower than consensus No. 1 overall pick, Trevor Lawrence. He also holds the Stanford record for most passing yards in a single game with 504. That means he had more yards in a game than Cardinal greats John Elway and Andrew Luck - two of the most-hyped quarterback prospects of all time and both first-overall selections in their respective drafts.

As Stanford head coach David Shaw explained on the Haberman & Middlekauff podcast, Mills “is one of those evaluations where you’re not looking at what he does well, you say ‘is there anything he doesn’t do well?”

Even so, until the past few weeks, Mills had been somewhat of a draft afterthought as it relates to first-round quarterback buzz. There was little fanfare when he declared for the draft last December compared to other QBs from around the country.

But after an excellent pro day, his draft momentum appears to be peaking at just the right time.

If he would drop to 3rd rd? MAYBE?

Not a bad idea, but the article leaves out his pedestrian 18-8 TD to Int ratio (Fields was 56-7). YPA was 7.9.

3rd round seems about right.

Playing against PAC.XX defenses

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

Without knowing how good Cleveland is or what our plan for him is. if there is a plan - its impossible to identify or project OL. draft priorities. As if we could anyway.

Spielman spent a 2nd round pick on Cleveland with the idea that he would sit him a year and then replace Reiff (and his salary) with a quality LT on the cheap for 5 years. The fact that Samia is completely unable to play pro football forced Zimmer to play Cleveland out of position for a year instead of sitting him as a backup LT. If RS does not follow through this year and approach the draft with the idea of starting Cleveland at LT, then that is one more botched “effort” by RS to fix our oline and it will prove once again that RS has no actual long-term draft strategy.

pff graded Cleveland in the 80s three years in a row - he's athletic and benched pressed 30 reps of 225....


To recap, Brown ran the 40-yard dash in 5.85 seconds – the slowest of any player at the event. He posted just 14 reps on the bench press. His vertical jump (19.5 inches) and broad jump (82 inches) were also dead last among all prospects.

Yet he 's been a pro bowler 2 of his first 3 seasons.

Would he have been a Pro Bowler with us? His "sacks against" stat would have been different with us. Jackson vrs Cousins.

Still, it would have been a good/great pickup for us. Considering where we are at now.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

The articles, I have read, on QB's indicate that Mills will be gone before the Vikings pick in the 3rd round. Two other prospects that look like they could be worth considering are Kellen Mond (Texas A&M) and Kyle Trask (Florida).

Mond is 6'3", 211-pounds. He started 44 and completed just under 60% (over 60% the last 2 years) for 9,661 yards / 71 TD. He Mond also rushed 438 times for 1,608 and 22 touchdowns. Last year in 10 games he was 63% / 2,282 / 19 / 3. He had 74 rushes for 294 yds and 4 TD.

Trask is 6'5", 240 pounds. For his career he is 68% / 7386 yd / 69 TD / 15 Int. Doesn't run much. Has 58 yds and 8 rushing TD for his career. Last season was 69% / 4,283 / 43 / 8. He did throw 3 picks in the Cotton Bowl, but all of his regular set of receivers had opted out of playing that game.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

The articles, I have read, on QB's indicate that Mills will be gone before the Vikings pick in the 3rd round. Two other prospects that look like they could be worth considering are Kellen Mond (Texas A&M) and Kyle Trask (Florida).

Mond is 6'3", 211-pounds. He started 44 and completed just under 60% (over 60% the last 2 years) for 9,661 yards / 71 TD. He Mond also rushed 438 times for 1,608 and 22 touchdowns. Last year in 10 games he was 63% / 2,282 / 19 / 3. He had 74 rushes for 294 yds and 4 TD.

Trask is 6'5", 240 pounds. For his career he is 68% / 7386 yd / 69 TD / 15 Int. Doesn't run much. Has 58 yds and 8 rushing TD for his career. Last season was 69% / 4,283 / 43 / 8. He did throw 3 picks in the Cotton Bowl, but all of his regular set of receivers had opted out of playing that game.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

The articles, I have read, on QB's indicate that Mills will be gone before the Vikings pick in the 3rd round. Two other prospects that look like they could be worth considering are Kellen Mond (Texas A&M) and Kyle Trask (Florida).

Mond is 6'3", 211-pounds. He started 44 and completed just under 60% (over 60% the last 2 years) for 9,661 yards / 71 TD. He Mond also rushed 438 times for 1,608 and 22 touchdowns. Last year in 10 games he was 63% / 2,282 / 19 / 3. He had 74 rushes for 294 yds and 4 TD.

Trask is 6'5", 240 pounds. For his career he is 68% / 7386 yd / 69 TD / 15 Int. Doesn't run much. Has 58 yds and 8 rushing TD for his career. Last season was 69% / 4,283 / 43 / 8. He did throw 3 picks in the Cotton Bowl, but all of his regular set of receivers had opted out of playing that game.

I'd be happy if we picked any of these (or any QB before the 7th round).