quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Call Cousins what you want but few could argue his arm talent. If we do ONE thing...right now...and reduce the pressure our QB faces we could be contenders. He's put up good #'s facing the pressure he has but it could be so much cleaner and smoother.

The #30 QB Rating in the last two minutes of halves. That's what Cousins is, and that ain't good enough to win anything important.

Did you watch any games? He was fine against Dallas; JJ had an in-stride drop that would have yielded a first and much more, and at least one playcall featured a route where no one was available before pressure arrived. Against Tennessee the OL collapsed over and over, and he had an INT on a desperation 4th down where no one was open.

Kirk isn't great, but he's protected by horrendous. He's good enough if you surround him with at least adequate protection and the defense is stellar, which it hasn't been.

Pat Mahomes had horrid protection and he was in the Super Bowl. Russell Wilson won a Super Bowl with a horrid offensive line. I agree the offensive line is not very good, but the guy has no moxie whatsoever to overcome other deficiencies in the offense. Glaciers move quicker when pressured.

I will stipulate that Kirk isn't either of those guys, not in talent, effectiveness, nor style of play. All the better reason to get him real help with the rush coming unabated right up the gut instead of taking a flyer on a suspect QB prospect who may or may not be as good as Kirk in a year or two.

The more things change, the more they stay the same. This is the same conversation we had in here 12 months ago, 24 months ago and 36 months ago. Spielman doesn't give Cousins help and Cousins doesn't have what it takes to do it on his own. Great players make those around them better. If they can't get better, he needs to adapt and play a different style.

How about better preparation at the line so he can get rid of the ball quicker? How about working on speed and agility during the off-season? How about continuous workouts with your wide receivers during the off-season so you are on the same page?

At $33-million a year, he should be the first guy in the building and turning off the lights at the end of the day. That's what the players around him need to see.

At some point the Vikings fans have to take an honest look at the guy under center. Every season ends with fans in an uproar over his play. By the middle of the spring they always seem to suffer from amnesia.

Kirk Cousins is not a great player. He does his job well enough to win if everything around him checks out. The Vikings believe that with a great defense (which they don't have) and a great run game (which they kind of do have, but it depends on what you mean by "great") he is good enough to win a championship. I agree to the extent that the D and run game are beyond great and everything else is at least OK, but I don't think that any of these are true. Further, I would not take this approach because I think that all of this coming together just so is extremely unlikely. The better approach is to embrace the modern era and pass the ball and defend the pass. I would not have traded for Bradford, which is what all of this winds back to.

That said, $33M for a good but not great QB is the market. One can make the case that if you don't have a great QB you should not have a good one for the exact scenario we see playing out with the Vikings. Keep throwing back the medium and small fish until you get the whopper.

If you choose to keep Cousins, which the Vikings have and will for the next two seasons at a full guarantee, you can't have three of the worst pass blockers in the NFL as your IOL (which the Vikings currently do), nor can you hope to address the deficiency in the third round or beyond. I give a slight pass on Hill because, though he's a career back-up, he's at least replacement level.

But to have a horrendous OL one year and make it worse going into the draft is lunacy.

It depends on your philosophy. If you aren't going to win now, isn't it time to start looking towards the future? That's a lot to digest for fans HOPING for a miracle. I understand. But continuously kicking the can down the road in the name of HOPE is also lunacy, IMO.

12 months from now we will be sitting in the exact same place. The difference will be, it will be 12 months later. I'd rather start that process this weekend with the draft rather than waiting for the inevitable.

Vikings fans need to quit lying to themselves every April about Cousins. He's just a guy.

Kirk Cousins is a loaded Camry. I'd rather have a Tesla. Drafting a QB at 14 is the equivalent to buying an Acme E-Car now that's in development because I'm hoping that in a year or two it might be like driving a Tesla, but hopefully it's not a Ford Escort. If nothing else, hopefully it's a Camry, almost like the one I've got, which I've stopped servicing because I'm spending all of my money on the Acme E-Car. By the way, the Acme E-Car is more likely to be an Escort than a loaded Camry, much less a Tesla.

quote:

ORIGINAL: joejitsu

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steve Lentz

Draft OL early and often.

+1, Steve.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Call Cousins what you want but few could argue his arm talent. If we do ONE thing...right now...and reduce the pressure our QB faces we could be contenders. He's put up good #'s facing the pressure he has but it could be so much cleaner and smoother.

The #30 QB Rating in the last two minutes of halves. That's what Cousins is, and that ain't good enough to win anything important.

Did you watch any games? He was fine against Dallas; JJ had an in-stride drop that would have yielded a first and much more, and at least one playcall featured a route where no one was available before pressure arrived. Against Tennessee the OL collapsed over and over, and he had an INT on a desperation 4th down where no one was open.

Kirk isn't great, but he's protected by horrendous. He's good enough if you surround him with at least adequate protection and the defense is stellar, which it hasn't been.

Pat Mahomes had horrid protection and he was in the Super Bowl. Russell Wilson won a Super Bowl with a horrid offensive line. I agree the offensive line is not very good, but the guy has no moxie whatsoever to overcome other deficiencies in the offense. Glaciers move quicker when pressured.

I will stipulate that Kirk isn't either of those guys, not in talent, effectiveness, nor style of play. All the better reason to get him real help with the rush coming unabated right up the gut instead of taking a flyer on a suspect QB prospect who may or may not be as good as Kirk in a year or two.

The more things change, the more they stay the same. This is the same conversation we had in here 12 months ago, 24 months ago and 36 months ago. Spielman doesn't give Cousins help and Cousins doesn't have what it takes to do it on his own. Great players make those around them better. If they can't get better, he needs to adapt and play a different style.

How about better preparation at the line so he can get rid of the ball quicker? How about working on speed and agility during the off-season? How about continuous workouts with your wide receivers during the off-season so you are on the same page?

At $33-million a year, he should be the first guy in the building and turning off the lights at the end of the day. That's what the players around him need to see.

At some point the Vikings fans have to take an honest look at the guy under center. Every season ends with fans in an uproar over his play. By the middle of the spring they always seem to suffer from amnesia.

Kirk Cousins is not a great player. He does his job well enough to win if everything around him checks out. The Vikings believe that with a great defense (which they don't have) and a great run game (which they kind of do have, but it depends on what you mean by "great") he is good enough to win a championship. I agree to the extent that the D and run game are beyond great and everything else is at least OK, but I don't think that any of these are true. Further, I would not take this approach because I think that all of this coming together just so is extremely unlikely. The better approach is to embrace the modern era and pass the ball and defend the pass. I would not have traded for Bradford, which is what all of this winds back to.

That said, $33M for a good but not great QB is the market. One can make the case that if you don't have a great QB you should not have a good one for the exact scenario we see playing out with the Vikings. Keep throwing back the medium and small fish until you get the whopper.

If you choose to keep Cousins, which the Vikings have and will for the next two seasons at a full guarantee, you can't have three of the worst pass blockers in the NFL as your IOL (which the Vikings currently do), nor can you hope to address the deficiency in the third round or beyond. I give a slight pass on Hill because, though he's a career back-up, he's at least replacement level.

But to have a horrendous OL one year and make it worse going into the draft is lunacy.

It depends on your philosophy. If you aren't going to win now, isn't it time to start looking towards the future? That's a lot to digest for fans HOPING for a miracle. I understand. But continuously kicking the can down the road in the name of HOPE is also lunacy, IMO.

12 months from now we will be sitting in the exact same place. The difference will be, it will be 12 months later. I'd rather start that process this weekend with the draft rather than waiting for the inevitable.

Vikings fans need to quit lying to themselves every April about Cousins. He's just a guy.

Kirk Cousins is a loaded Camry. I'd rather have a Tesla. Drafting a QB at 14 is the equivalent to buying an Acme E-Car now that's in development because I'm hoping that in a year or two it might be like driving a Tesla, but hopefully it's not a Ford Escort. If nothing else, hopefully it's a Camry, almost like the one I've got, which I've stopped servicing because I'm spending all of my money on the Acme E-Car. By the way, the Acme E-Car is more likely to be an Escort than a loaded Camry, much less a Tesla.

Good, but a bunch of needless money is being used every year to simply own the Camry that I overpaid big time for in the first place. Which by the way isn't garaged so is susceptible to tree limbs falling on it and hail damage.

Could I perhaps start buying relatively cheap Acme E-cars every year hoping one will magically obtain all the right upgrades later? That way, maybe the garage gets built even though it won't have lights.

A good Acme E-car will have better built in protection from limbs and hail, and maybe won't require garage lights. Do I pay for one now with future resources, or get a cheaper one hoping it can acquire those things?

Thing is too, I can't trade in the expensive Camry w/o taking a crippling loss.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

At the end of the day, I'm stuck with the expensive Camry and need to build more of the garage to protect it. The extra protection won't hurt the next car.

And maybe I can get a cheap, unknown Acme E-car which will likely end up as an Escort even though the neighbors think it's ready to be a Tesla.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Adam Schefter@AdamSchefter

Kansas City gets:
-OT Orlando Brown
-2021 second-round pick (No. 58)
-2022 6th round pick.

Baltimore gets:
-2021 first-round pick (No. 31)
-third-round pick (No. 94)
-fourth-round pick (No. 136)
-2022 fifth-round pick

Pretty steep considering you also have to sign him.

But, if you are KC, why not? Even if they can't resign him, they are a team that knows they can win a SB this year with a solid OLine.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

At the end of the day, I'm stuck with the expensive Camry and need to build more of the garage to protect it. The extra protection won't hurt the next car.

And maybe I can get a cheap, unknown Acme E-car which will likely end up as an Escort even though the neighbors think it's ready to be a Tesla.

This is exactly where I am. We have Cousins and a 1950s approach to football, so max out what you can do to make that work.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Adam Schefter@AdamSchefter

Kansas City gets:
-OT Orlando Brown
-2021 second-round pick (No. 58)
-2022 6th round pick.

Baltimore gets:
-2021 first-round pick (No. 31)
-third-round pick (No. 94)
-fourth-round pick (No. 136)
-2022 fifth-round pick

Pretty steep considering you also have to sign him.

But, if you are KC, why not? Even if they can't resign him, they are a team that knows they can win a SB this year with a solid OLine.

from Twitter:

Ted Glover
@purplebuckeye
·
52m
#Chiefs line sucked in the Super Bowl, and at least on paper they fixed it in 2 months.

Spielman has been the GM since 2012 and the #Vikings O-line still stinks.

2 months vs 10 years.

Yet he’s a top 10 GM

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Adam Schefter@AdamSchefter

Kansas City gets:
-OT Orlando Brown
-2021 second-round pick (No. 58)
-2022 6th round pick.

Baltimore gets:
-2021 first-round pick (No. 31)
-third-round pick (No. 94)
-fourth-round pick (No. 136)
-2022 fifth-round pick

Pretty steep considering you also have to sign him.

But, if you are KC, why not? Even if they can't resign him, they are a team that knows they can win a SB this year with a solid OLine.

from Twitter:

Ted Glover
@purplebuckeye
·
52m
#Chiefs line sucked in the Super Bowl, and at least on paper they fixed it in 2 months.

Spielman has been the GM since 2012 and the #Vikings O-line still stinks.

2 months vs 10 years.

Yet he’s a top 10 GM

Would it be asking too much to have 2 out of our first 4 picks be OLine?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Adam Schefter@AdamSchefter

Kansas City gets:
-OT Orlando Brown
-2021 second-round pick (No. 58)
-2022 6th round pick.

Baltimore gets:
-2021 first-round pick (No. 31)
-third-round pick (No. 94)
-fourth-round pick (No. 136)
-2022 fifth-round pick

Pretty steep considering you also have to sign him.

But, if you are KC, why not? Even if they can't resign him, they are a team that knows they can win a SB this year with a solid OLine.

from Twitter:

Ted Glover
@purplebuckeye
·
52m
#Chiefs line sucked in the Super Bowl, and at least on paper they fixed it in 2 months.

Spielman has been the GM since 2012 and the #Vikings O-line still stinks.

2 months vs 10 years.

Yet he’s a top 10 GM

Would it be asking too much to have 2 out of our first 4 picks be OLine?

Spielman has 3rd and 4th round OL options lined up to satisfy you. Oh, unless there is another 'run' he never expected.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbusse

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

Adam Schefter@AdamSchefter

Kansas City gets:
-OT Orlando Brown
-2021 second-round pick (No. 58)
-2022 6th round pick.

Baltimore gets:
-2021 first-round pick (No. 31)
-third-round pick (No. 94)
-fourth-round pick (No. 136)
-2022 fifth-round pick

Pretty steep considering you also have to sign him.

But, if you are KC, why not? Even if they can't resign him, they are a team that knows they can win a SB this year with a solid OLine.

from Twitter:

Ted Glover
@purplebuckeye
·
52m
#Chiefs line sucked in the Super Bowl, and at least on paper they fixed it in 2 months.

Spielman has been the GM since 2012 and the #Vikings O-line still stinks.

2 months vs 10 years.

Yet he’s a top 10 GM

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

At the end of the day, I'm stuck with the expensive Camry and need to build more of the garage to protect it. The extra protection won't hurt the next car.

And maybe I can get a cheap, unknown Acme E-car which will likely end up as an Escort even though the neighbors think it's ready to be a Tesla.

This is exactly where I am. We have Cousins and a 1950s approach to football, so max out what you can do to make that work.

The whole neighborhood wants a Tesla but the king of the household still relishes a fleet of '62 Pontiac station wagons. Cataline or Bonneville, makes no difference. With 93 octane gas, even though the rules make that difficult. Maybe make a concession for those new-fangled "radial" tires.

Endless loop of Lombardi saying a seam here and a seam here....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pauldiercks1

Lol I guess the Chief’s agreed with me on Orlando Brown if a few here did not.
Unfortunate we let a stud tackle slip away.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pauldiercks1

Lol I guess the Chief’s agreed with me on Orlando Brown if a few here did not.
Unfortunate we let a stud tackle slip away.

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Happy Norseman

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pauldiercks1

Lol I guess the Chief’s agreed with me on Orlando Brown if a few here did not.
Unfortunate we let a stud tackle slip away.

I’m thrilled we didn’t trade for Brown. We desperately need oline help, but spending massive draft capital on a RT who wants to play LT is foolish, especially when you have to pay him left tackle money regardless. Not a small deal considering our salary cap issues. The Vikings are way better off drafting an OT and G (within the first three rounds). If Spielman pulls it off we could have a talented and cheap oline for the next four to five years. The only problem is - Spielman’s got to actually draft the lineman.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pauldiercks1

Lol I guess the Chief’s agreed with me on Orlando Brown if a few here did not.
Unfortunate we let a stud tackle slip away.

Nobody would have disapproved of trading for any decent OL. Anyone would have been food for the starving.

Some posters never believed we were going to be serious contenders. Given the regime's anti-OL tendencies and our current situation. (Vastly different from the Chiefs situation ... starting with an offensive-minded HC paying attention to that side of the ball).

I'm shocked we even had a discussion with the Ravens. Spielman to Ravens DeCosta: "Yes, I know Brown is a big brute but we prefer athletic stringbeans with no anchor or man strength ... what's the asking price?" Decosta: "Since Brown is essentially the size of TWO of your OTs ..."

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

Over The Cap values the Ravens return as equivalent to the 16th overall pick.

quote:

ORIGINAL: stfrank

We all know this years draft needs to be all about O-Line, but having said that.........
Who do you think will be our first round CB this year?

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

.
.
over the last day i've seen brown rated as the 22nd best o-tackle in 2020, and then rated the 25th best o-tackle in 2020...anyone know what reiff was ranked?...i would have thought better than that....