quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

I don't understand why Patterson is thought overrated on this site (and others).

Bill posted all those drafted. Obenigbo, Stephen, Weatherly were all 7 rounders who got second contracts with other teams (didn't we draft weatherly and stephen in the 7th rounds?). That's pretty phenomenal. Hunter to all pro. Griffin - I personally believe, was helped by Patterson.

Floyd was the only first or second round draft pick while Patterson's been here. True we've signed several guys, but only Joseph for relatively big money. Not other position group has gotten less $ and draft capital (without looking it up - maybe RBs?). And other than last year we've had very good DL.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

the law office of KG-Bill would have us doLOL

I'm in the middle on this one. Prefer he plays on existing contract through this season with the promise of entering good faith negotiations next off season.

1. Hunter needs to prove he's not damaged goods.
2. Current Covid cap restrictions are also something Hunter's team needs to take in for account.
3. Viking brass need to acknowledge Hunter has vastly out played his current deal.

All this vastly outplaying his current deal is simply not true. In 2019 he outplayed it, but in 2020 he didn't even take the field for us. That is not vastly outplaying his current deal.

He was 1st team all-pro for both the 2018 &19 seasons. (All-pro is the award where the rubber meets the road vs pro bowl.) So he was considered to be among the 4-5 best DE's/Edge guys in the league. Yet (at no fault of the Vikings) is now currently the 13 highest paid DE. As I noted it wasn't the Vikings fault that DE salaries really escalated.

He did get hurt last season but I don't think we can throw rocks at him for that. He showed up to all voluntary OTA's ect and was injured. That's part of football.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

the law office of KG-Bill would have us doLOL

I'm in the middle on this one. Prefer he plays on existing contract through this season with the promise of entering good faith negotiations next off season.

1. Hunter needs to prove he's not damaged goods.
2. Current Covid cap restrictions are also something Hunter's team needs to take in for account.
3. Viking brass need to acknowledge Hunter has vastly out played his current deal.

All this vastly outplaying his current deal is simply not true. In 2019 he outplayed it, but in 2020 he didn't even take the field for us. That is not vastly outplaying his current deal.

He was 1st team all-pro for both the 2018 &19 seasons. (All-pro is the award where the rubber meets the road vs pro bowl.) So he was considered to be among the 4-5 best DE's/Edge guys in the league. Yet (at no fault of the Vikings) is now currently the 13 highest paid DE. As I noted it wasn't the Vikings fault that DE salaries really escalated.

He did get hurt last season but I don't think we can throw rocks at him for that. He showed up to all voluntary OTA's ect and was injured. That's part of football.

That Hunter missed year is irrelevant when evaluating performance against his contract. Players get injured. A player gets injured, he still gets paid. Deal with it. If you want to bitch about last year, then Hunter can point to the fact that he racked up 40 sacks for the Vikings on a 3rd round rookie scale contract for 4 years. You can't just cherry pick the point in time. You take performance and pay as a whole. Hunter didn't miss a game due to injury for 5 years before last year. He piled up 54.5 sacks in that time. He holds the NFL record for most sacks by a player by age 25. Harp on him being out last year all you want, but the reality is that even factoring in last year, Hunter has been a bargain for the Vikings.

I also don't buy the argument that you can't renegotiate with three years remaining on the contract. When a team goes to a player with the ultimatum to renegotiate or get cut, they don't care how many years are left on the contract.

The only argument that has any validity is the "needs to prove he still has it after the injury" one. The Vikings have pretty well admitted that they have no concerns about the level of performance they expect out of Hunter. If they were concerned, they wouldn't have been satisfied with signing a journey man who had just been cut and using a couple of mid round picks on the position.

The bottom line is that the DE market exploded after Hunter signed his contract. There are DE that aren't half as good Hunter, making more money than he is. I believe he is now the 17th highest paid DE. He wants a fair market deal and it appears he is ready to utilize the only leverage he has. I have no problem with him doing so. Like bohumm said, until the NFL fundamentally changes how contracts and guaranteed money are structured, this how the game will be played league wide. - FWIW, I think Hunter would be better served by attending mini camp and showing the coaches and brass that he is 100%. He can then pick the next camp for his battle if he chooses.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

I don't understand why Patterson is thought overrated on this site (and others).

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

the law office of KG-Bill would have us doLOL

I'm in the middle on this one. Prefer he plays on existing contract through this season with the promise of entering good faith negotiations next off season.

1. Hunter needs to prove he's not damaged goods.
2. Current Covid cap restrictions are also something Hunter's team needs to take in for account.
3. Viking brass need to acknowledge Hunter has vastly out played his current deal.

All this vastly outplaying his current deal is simply not true. In 2019 he outplayed it, but in 2020 he didn't even take the field for us. That is not vastly outplaying his current deal.

He was 1st team all-pro for both the 2018 &19 seasons. (All-pro is the award where the rubber meets the road vs pro bowl.) So he was considered to be among the 4-5 best DE's/Edge guys in the league. Yet (at no fault of the Vikings) is now currently the 13 highest paid DE. As I noted it wasn't the Vikings fault that DE salaries really escalated.

He did get hurt last season but I don't think we can throw rocks at him for that. He showed up to all voluntary OTA's ect and was injured. That's part of football.

That Hunter missed year is irrelevant when evaluating performance against his contract. Players get injured. A player gets injured, he still gets paid. Deal with it. If you want to bitch about last year, then Hunter can point to the fact that he racked up 40 sacks for the Vikings on a 3rd round rookie scale contract for 4 years. You can't just cherry pick the point in time. You take performance and pay as a whole. Hunter didn't miss a game due to injury for 5 years before last year. He piled up 54.5 sacks in that time. He holds the NFL record for most sacks by a player by age 25. Harp on him being out last year all you want, but the reality is that even factoring in last year, Hunter has been a bargain for the Vikings.

I also don't buy the argument that you can't renegotiate with three years remaining on the contract. When a team goes to a player with the ultimatum to renegotiate or get cut, they don't care how many years are left on the contract.

The only argument that has any validity is the "needs to prove he still has it after the injury" one. The Vikings have pretty well admitted that they have no concerns about the level of performance they expect out of Hunter. If they were concerned, they wouldn't have been satisfied with signing a journey man who had just been cut and using a couple of mid round picks on the position.

The bottom line is that the DE market exploded after Hunter signed his contract. There are DE that aren't half as good Hunter, making more money than he is. I believe he is now the 17th highest paid DE. He wants a fair market deal and it appears he is ready to utilize the only leverage he has. I have no problem with him doing so. Like bohumm said, until the NFL fundamentally changes how contracts and guaranteed money are structured, this how the game will be played league wide. - FWIW, I think Hunter would be better served by attending mini camp and showing the coaches and brass that he is 100%. He can then pick the next camp for his battle if he chooses.

So a 32 year old player that played at a HOF level until he was 30, but whose play has fallen of significantly over the last 2 seasons, you continue to pay him at, or close to at, HOF $, because "You can't just cherry pick the point in time. You take performance and pay as a whole"?

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

the law office of KG-Bill would have us doLOL

I'm in the middle on this one. Prefer he plays on existing contract through this season with the promise of entering good faith negotiations next off season.

1. Hunter needs to prove he's not damaged goods.
2. Current Covid cap restrictions are also something Hunter's team needs to take in for account.
3. Viking brass need to acknowledge Hunter has vastly out played his current deal.

All this vastly outplaying his current deal is simply not true. In 2019 he outplayed it, but in 2020 he didn't even take the field for us. That is not vastly outplaying his current deal.

He was 1st team all-pro for both the 2018 &19 seasons. (All-pro is the award where the rubber meets the road vs pro bowl.) So he was considered to be among the 4-5 best DE's/Edge guys in the league. Yet (at no fault of the Vikings) is now currently the 13 highest paid DE. As I noted it wasn't the Vikings fault that DE salaries really escalated.

He did get hurt last season but I don't think we can throw rocks at him for that. He showed up to all voluntary OTA's ect and was injured. That's part of football.

That Hunter missed last year is irrelevant when evaluating performance against his contract. Players get injured. A player gets injured, he still gets paid. Deal with it. If you want to bitch about last year, then Hunter can point to the fact that he racked up 40 sacks for the Vikings on a 3rd round rookie scale contract for 4 years. You can't just cherry pick the point in time. You take performance and pay as a whole. Hunter didn't miss a game due to injury for 5 years before last year. He piled up 54.5 sacks in that time. He holds the NFL record for most sacks by a player by age 25. Harp on him being out last year all you want, but the reality is that even factoring in last year, Hunter has been a bargain for the Vikings.

I also don't buy the argument that you can't renegotiate with three years remaining on the contract. When a team goes to a player with the ultimatum to renegotiate or get cut, they don't care how many years are left on the contract.

The only argument that has any validity is the "needs to prove he still has it after the injury" one. The Vikings have pretty well admitted that they have no concerns about the level of performance they expect out of Hunter. If they were concerned, they wouldn't have been satisfied with signing a journey man who had just been cut and using a couple of mid round picks on the position.

The bottom line is that the DE market exploded after Hunter signed his contract. There are DE that aren't half as good Hunter, making more money than he is. I believe he is now the 17th highest paid DE. He wants a fair market deal and it appears he is ready to utilize the only leverage he has. I have no problem with him doing so. Like bohumm said, until the NFL fundamentally changes how contracts and guaranteed money are structured, this how the game will be played league wide. - FWIW, I think Hunter would be better served by attending mini camp and showing the coaches and brass that he is 100%. He can then pick the next camp for his battle if he chooses.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

Only two years?

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

the law office of KG-Bill would have us doLOL

I'm in the middle on this one. Prefer he plays on existing contract through this season with the promise of entering good faith negotiations next off season.

1. Hunter needs to prove he's not damaged goods.
2. Current Covid cap restrictions are also something Hunter's team needs to take in for account.
3. Viking brass need to acknowledge Hunter has vastly out played his current deal.

All this vastly outplaying his current deal is simply not true. In 2019 he outplayed it, but in 2020 he didn't even take the field for us. That is not vastly outplaying his current deal.

He was 1st team all-pro for both the 2018 &19 seasons. (All-pro is the award where the rubber meets the road vs pro bowl.) So he was considered to be among the 4-5 best DE's/Edge guys in the league. Yet (at no fault of the Vikings) is now currently the 13 highest paid DE. As I noted it wasn't the Vikings fault that DE salaries really escalated.

He did get hurt last season but I don't think we can throw rocks at him for that. He showed up to all voluntary OTA's ect and was injured. That's part of football.

That Hunter missed year is irrelevant when evaluating performance against his contract. Players get injured. A player gets injured, he still gets paid. Deal with it. If you want to bitch about last year, then Hunter can point to the fact that he racked up 40 sacks for the Vikings on a 3rd round rookie scale contract for 4 years. You can't just cherry pick the point in time. You take performance and pay as a whole. Hunter didn't miss a game due to injury for 5 years before last year. He piled up 54.5 sacks in that time. He holds the NFL record for most sacks by a player by age 25. Harp on him being out last year all you want, but the reality is that even factoring in last year, Hunter has been a bargain for the Vikings.

I also don't buy the argument that you can't renegotiate with three years remaining on the contract. When a team goes to a player with the ultimatum to renegotiate or get cut, they don't care how many years are left on the contract.

The only argument that has any validity is the "needs to prove he still has it after the injury" one. The Vikings have pretty well admitted that they have no concerns about the level of performance they expect out of Hunter. If they were concerned, they wouldn't have been satisfied with signing a journey man who had just been cut and using a couple of mid round picks on the position.

The bottom line is that the DE market exploded after Hunter signed his contract. There are DE that aren't half as good Hunter, making more money than he is. I believe he is now the 17th highest paid DE. He wants a fair market deal and it appears he is ready to utilize the only leverage he has. I have no problem with him doing so. Like bohumm said, until the NFL fundamentally changes how contracts and guaranteed money are structured, this how the game will be played league wide. - FWIW, I think Hunter would be better served by attending mini camp and showing the coaches and brass that he is 100%. He can then pick the next camp for his battle if he chooses.

So a 32 year old player that played at a HOF level until he was 30, but whose play has fallen of significantly over the last 2 seasons, you continue to pay him at, or close to at, HOF $, because "You can't just cherry pick the point in time. You take performance and pay as a whole"?

We're not talking about a has been with declining performance. We are talking about a player early in his prime who was a pro bowler and had 14.5 sacks in his last season.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

the law office of KG-Bill would have us doLOL

I'm in the middle on this one. Prefer he plays on existing contract through this season with the promise of entering good faith negotiations next off season.

1. Hunter needs to prove he's not damaged goods.
2. Current Covid cap restrictions are also something Hunter's team needs to take in for account.
3. Viking brass need to acknowledge Hunter has vastly out played his current deal.

All this vastly outplaying his current deal is simply not true. In 2019 he outplayed it, but in 2020 he didn't even take the field for us. That is not vastly outplaying his current deal.

He was 1st team all-pro for both the 2018 &19 seasons. (All-pro is the award where the rubber meets the road vs pro bowl.) So he was considered to be among the 4-5 best DE's/Edge guys in the league. Yet (at no fault of the Vikings) is now currently the 13 highest paid DE. As I noted it wasn't the Vikings fault that DE salaries really escalated.

He did get hurt last season but I don't think we can throw rocks at him for that. He showed up to all voluntary OTA's ect and was injured. That's part of football.

That Hunter missed last year is irrelevant when evaluating performance against his contract. Players get injured. A player gets injured, he still gets paid. Deal with it. If you want to bitch about last year, then Hunter can point to the fact that he racked up 40 sacks for the Vikings on a 3rd round rookie scale contract for 4 years. You can't just cherry pick the point in time. You take performance and pay as a whole. Hunter didn't miss a game due to injury for 5 years before last year. He piled up 54.5 sacks in that time. He holds the NFL record for most sacks by a player by age 25. Harp on him being out last year all you want, but the reality is that even factoring in last year, Hunter has been a bargain for the Vikings.

I also don't buy the argument that you can't renegotiate with three years remaining on the contract. When a team goes to a player with the ultimatum to renegotiate or get cut, they don't care how many years are left on the contract.

The only argument that has any validity is the "needs to prove he still has it after the injury" one. The Vikings have pretty well admitted that they have no concerns about the level of performance they expect out of Hunter. If they were concerned, they wouldn't have been satisfied with signing a journey man who had just been cut and using a couple of mid round picks on the position.

The bottom line is that the DE market exploded after Hunter signed his contract. There are DE that aren't half as good Hunter, making more money than he is. I believe he is now the 17th highest paid DE. He wants a fair market deal and it appears he is ready to utilize the only leverage he has. I have no problem with him doing so. Like bohumm said, until the NFL fundamentally changes how contracts and guaranteed money are structured, this how the game will be played league wide. - FWIW, I think Hunter would be better served by attending mini camp and showing the coaches and brass that he is 100%. He can then pick the next camp for his battle if he chooses.

Having heard all the speculative evidence, you've got the jurors nodding and taking notes with that hell of a closing argument.

Even the part justifying negotiating with three years to go is compelling.

I'm sure opposing counsel will muster up their same points while the jury stews the wasted time could be used to wrap this thing up.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricky J

Sure that's all great stuff for the owner and oh the poor players ....

I really don't care about either of them. I do care that if Hunter, under contract for three years, gets his way because, it's only fair to him, my team, the one I want to see win at least one F Super Bowl, now has a lot less talent because we're worrying about being fair to a guy that signed the contract to be in the position he is in.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

Remember, the reason Hunter is so integral is that he plays Zimmer's system perfectly: stop the run first, rush the passer second. If he were on a team where he could just go upfield to seal the edge (maybe) on the way to the passer, he'd get a lot more sacks. If he were on a team that would start/play a youngster over a declining vet just because he's better, he would have had a lot more snaps and an extra year as a starter under his belt when he negotiated his second contract. Yes, he signed it, but reward him and recognize the entire context.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

I guess I just don't see it as a given that Hunter is only this good because he was with the Vikings. I think that's helped, but he was extremely young when drafted and likely would be as good anywhere, with even more sacks in a system that allowed him to focus more on rushing the passer. But maybe not. As for college, apples to oranges. If it were all about sacks, he likely wouldn't have been drafted at all.

This is all conjecture assuming Hunter would have overcome any obstacle thrown in his path.

I could also speculate that if Hunter had not been drafted by the Vikings, he might have lasted until the 5th rd by a team with no DL coach named Patterson ... who can say where he'd be in his development ... a lot of world class athletes and much better college players than Hunter fall through the cracks in their transition to the nfl because they land in the wrong situation. Or, he might have been drafted by a team with a Von Miller instead of a Robison, and played even less his first two years.

Yes, he has transformed himself into a great football player ... over time, with the help of the people around him, not in spite of.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

the law office of KG-Bill would have us doLOL

I'm in the middle on this one. Prefer he plays on existing contract through this season with the promise of entering good faith negotiations next off season.

1. Hunter needs to prove he's not damaged goods.
2. Current Covid cap restrictions are also something Hunter's team needs to take in for account.
3. Viking brass need to acknowledge Hunter has vastly out played his current deal.

All this vastly outplaying his current deal is simply not true. In 2019 he outplayed it, but in 2020 he didn't even take the field for us. That is not vastly outplaying his current deal.

He was 1st team all-pro for both the 2018 &19 seasons. (All-pro is the award where the rubber meets the road vs pro bowl.) So he was considered to be among the 4-5 best DE's/Edge guys in the league. Yet (at no fault of the Vikings) is now currently the 13 highest paid DE. As I noted it wasn't the Vikings fault that DE salaries really escalated.

He did get hurt last season but I don't think we can throw rocks at him for that. He showed up to all voluntary OTA's ect and was injured. That's part of football.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

the law office of KG-Bill would have us doLOL

I'm in the middle on this one. Prefer he plays on existing contract through this season with the promise of entering good faith negotiations next off season.

1. Hunter needs to prove he's not damaged goods.
2. Current Covid cap restrictions are also something Hunter's team needs to take in for account.
3. Viking brass need to acknowledge Hunter has vastly out played his current deal.

All this vastly outplaying his current deal is simply not true. In 2019 he outplayed it, but in 2020 he didn't even take the field for us. That is not vastly outplaying his current deal.

He was 1st team all-pro for both the 2018 &19 seasons. (All-pro is the award where the rubber meets the road vs pro bowl.) So he was considered to be among the 4-5 best DE's/Edge guys in the league. Yet (at no fault of the Vikings) is now currently the 13 highest paid DE. As I noted it wasn't the Vikings fault that DE salaries really escalated.

He did get hurt last season but I don't think we can throw rocks at him for that. He showed up to all voluntary OTA's ect and was injured. That's part of football.

That Hunter missed last year is irrelevant when evaluating performance against his contract. Players get injured. A player gets injured, he still gets paid. Deal with it. If you want to bitch about last year, then Hunter can point to the fact that he racked up 40 sacks for the Vikings on a 3rd round rookie scale contract for 4 years. You can't just cherry pick the point in time. You take performance and pay as a whole. Hunter didn't miss a game due to injury for 5 years before last year. He piled up 54.5 sacks in that time. He holds the NFL record for most sacks by a player by age 25. Harp on him being out last year all you want, but the reality is that even factoring in last year, Hunter has been a bargain for the Vikings.

I also don't buy the argument that you can't renegotiate with three years remaining on the contract. When a team goes to a player with the ultimatum to renegotiate or get cut, they don't care how many years are left on the contract.

The only argument that has any validity is the "needs to prove he still has it after the injury" one. The Vikings have pretty well admitted that they have no concerns about the level of performance they expect out of Hunter. If they were concerned, they wouldn't have been satisfied with signing a journey man who had just been cut and using a couple of mid round picks on the position.

The bottom line is that the DE market exploded after Hunter signed his contract. There are DE that aren't half as good Hunter, making more money than he is. I believe he is now the 17th highest paid DE. He wants a fair market deal and it appears he is ready to utilize the only leverage he has. I have no problem with him doing so. Like bohumm said, until the NFL fundamentally changes how contracts and guaranteed money are structured, this how the game will be played league wide. - FWIW, I think Hunter would be better served by attending mini camp and showing the coaches and brass that he is 100%. He can then pick the next camp for his battle if he chooses.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thebigo

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

the law office of KG-Bill would have us doLOL

I'm in the middle on this one. Prefer he plays on existing contract through this season with the promise of entering good faith negotiations next off season.

1. Hunter needs to prove he's not damaged goods.
2. Current Covid cap restrictions are also something Hunter's team needs to take in for account.
3. Viking brass need to acknowledge Hunter has vastly out played his current deal.

All this vastly outplaying his current deal is simply not true. In 2019 he outplayed it, but in 2020 he didn't even take the field for us. That is not vastly outplaying his current deal.

He was 1st team all-pro for both the 2018 &19 seasons. (All-pro is the award where the rubber meets the road vs pro bowl.) So he was considered to be among the 4-5 best DE's/Edge guys in the league. Yet (at no fault of the Vikings) is now currently the 13 highest paid DE. As I noted it wasn't the Vikings fault that DE salaries really escalated.

He did get hurt last season but I don't think we can throw rocks at him for that. He showed up to all voluntary OTA's ect and was injured. That's part of football.

That Hunter missed year is irrelevant when evaluating performance against his contract. Players get injured. A player gets injured, he still gets paid. Deal with it. If you want to bitch about last year, then Hunter can point to the fact that he racked up 40 sacks for the Vikings on a 3rd round rookie scale contract for 4 years. You can't just cherry pick the point in time. You take performance and pay as a whole. Hunter didn't miss a game due to injury for 5 years before last year. He piled up 54.5 sacks in that time. He holds the NFL record for most sacks by a player by age 25. Harp on him being out last year all you want, but the reality is that even factoring in last year, Hunter has been a bargain for the Vikings.

I also don't buy the argument that you can't renegotiate with three years remaining on the contract. When a team goes to a player with the ultimatum to renegotiate or get cut, they don't care how many years are left on the contract.

The only argument that has any validity is the "needs to prove he still has it after the injury" one. The Vikings have pretty well admitted that they have no concerns about the level of performance they expect out of Hunter. If they were concerned, they wouldn't have been satisfied with signing a journey man who had just been cut and using a couple of mid round picks on the position.

The bottom line is that the DE market exploded after Hunter signed his contract. There are DE that aren't half as good Hunter, making more money than he is. I believe he is now the 17th highest paid DE. He wants a fair market deal and it appears he is ready to utilize the only leverage he has. I have no problem with him doing so. Like bohumm said, until the NFL fundamentally changes how contracts and guaranteed money are structured, this how the game will be played league wide. - FWIW, I think Hunter would be better served by attending mini camp and showing the coaches and brass that he is 100%. He can then pick the next camp for his battle if he chooses.

So a 32 year old player that played at a HOF level until he was 30, but whose play has fallen of significantly over the last 2 seasons, you continue to pay him at, or close to at, HOF $, because "You can't just cherry pick the point in time. You take performance and pay as a whole"?