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RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/14/2021 2:24:23 AM   
marty


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Capers may have been part of the reason the defense sucked this last season, and why Aaron has just one ring.

Hopefully the Pack defense struggles, and Pettine proves to be just as bad.

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Post #: 126
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/14/2021 2:31:07 AM   
marty


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The Vikings could have kept Diggs AND drafted Jefferson.

Gladney seems pretty average, and they could have just drafted Jefferson instead of him. As long as they still drafted Cleveland and Dantzler, it would have been an amazing draft, and then still had Diggs.

Theilen, Diggs and Jefferson at #3, that would have been fun to watch, similar to '98, though Cousins and the OL were not as good as RC with the '98 OL.

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Post #: 127
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/14/2021 4:23:42 AM   
Todd M

 

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Diggs had no interest in being #2 or 1b even on a run heavy offense led by Kirk Cousins. And if he was still on the roster with us choosing a WR in the 1st...forget about it.
Post #: 128
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/14/2021 7:43:57 AM   
Phil Riewer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: bohumm
As an addendum, how does Mr Cornerback Coach lose his whole CB room at once? How is that, at least in large part, on him?


Prob part of the reason he got another year.....Salary cap issue. (Rhodes, Waynes, Alexander)....but I would still trade Dantzler, Gladney, and whomever is the third going into next year---I think we will be better.

He made choices that limited the salary cap (Barr) and had no one developed behind them, including the first rounder (Hughes) he insisted on even though we had a full slate of starters at the time.


Pretty sure they knew in advance about the CBs and the cap, after all we did. So they drafted Hughes. That's good planning, even though Hughes has not panned out.


+1
Hughes looked really good his rookie year and then he hurt his knee and neck.

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Post #: 129
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/14/2021 9:29:54 AM   
bstinger


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Diggs had no interest in being #2 or 1b even on a run heavy offense led by Kirk Cousins. And if he was still on the roster with us choosing a WR in the 1st...forget about it.

We wouldn't have chosen a WR in the 1st if he was on the roster.

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Post #: 130
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/14/2021 9:31:45 AM   
bstinger


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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

The Vikings could have kept Diggs AND drafted Jefferson.

Gladney seems pretty average, and they could have just drafted Jefferson instead of him. As long as they still drafted Cleveland and Dantzler, it would have been an amazing draft, and then still had Diggs.

Theilen, Diggs and Jefferson at #3, that would have been fun to watch, similar to '98, though Cousins and the OL were not as good as RC with the '98 OL.

No offense to Thielen (I before E except after C), who is my personal favorite, but of those 3 WR's he's 3rd.

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Post #: 131
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/14/2021 9:54:59 AM   
Bill Johanesen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

Capers may have been part of the reason the defense sucked this last season, and why Aaron has just one ring.

Hopefully the Pack defense struggles, and Pettine proves to be just as bad.


Hey, Marty pops in to mention - what else - a packers SB win. Shocked I tell 'ya.
Post #: 132
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/14/2021 10:01:13 AM   
David F.


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He didn't even appear in court.

https://theathletic.com/2321885/2021/01/14/adrian-peterson-ordered-to-pay-8-3-million-over-loan-default/

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Post #: 133
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/14/2021 10:13:59 AM   
Mark Anderson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

The Vikings could have kept Diggs AND drafted Jefferson.

Gladney seems pretty average, and they could have just drafted Jefferson instead of him. As long as they still drafted Cleveland and Dantzler, it would have been an amazing draft, and then still had Diggs.

Theilen, Diggs and Jefferson at #3, that would have been fun to watch, similar to '98, though Cousins and the OL were not as good as RC with the '98 OL.

Gladney did pretty well imo. Considering we had no pass rush.

He reminds me of Winfield Sr. Physical in run support, okay in coverage.
Post #: 134
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/14/2021 10:52:56 AM   
Pager


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Hughes was a terrible choice at the time. We had Waynes, Rhodes, Mac as starters. Waynes & Mac still had two years on rookie deal. There was no reason to believe Rhodes was going to drop off a cliff. Added James and Hill as developmental guys. James has since started for the Eagles, signing a 1 year ext before a season ending injury. This was a team coming off the NFCCG and had glaring holes/immediate needs.

Hughes performance
2018: PFF 61.6, allowed a 66.7 comp%, 9.1 yds/target, and a 104% rating.
2019: PFF 58.7, allowed a 61.2%, 7.2 per target, and a 91.9% rating.
2020: PFF 54.4, 75% comp %, 13.1 per target, and a 126.3% rating.

Injuries might have derailed his development but this was not a good return on a first round pick.

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Post #: 135
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/14/2021 10:53:37 AM   
Pager


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

Diggs had no interest in being #2 or 1b even on a run heavy offense led by Kirk Cousins. And if he was still on the roster with us choosing a WR in the 1st...forget about it.

We wouldn't have chosen a WR in the 1st if he was on the roster.



We also used the Bills pick to draft him.

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Post #: 136
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/14/2021 1:06:13 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: marty

The Vikings could have kept Diggs AND drafted Jefferson.

Gladney seems pretty average, and they could have just drafted Jefferson instead of him. As long as they still drafted Cleveland and Dantzler, it would have been an amazing draft, and then still had Diggs.

Theilen, Diggs and Jefferson at #3, that would have been fun to watch, similar to '98, though Cousins and the OL were not as good as RC with the '98 OL.


If we kept Diggs we would have had only one pick at #22 (I believe) and after losing all of our CB starters most likely would not have selected a third receiver. Plus Jefferson probably would have been gone before 22. We selected him with Buffalo's pick.

Edit: Sorry. I'm like an echo of previous posts.

< Message edited by Bruce Johnson -- 1/14/2021 1:07:51 PM >


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Post #: 137
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/14/2021 1:37:55 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

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Of the 8 remaining playoff teams, 6 have a top 10 OL according to PFF. All have a top half one.

This is not me advocating that they need to draft OL highly, but they need to address it somehow. Like if Dozier is a starter somehow I’m gonna flip.

Forrester 93 on Twitter

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We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?
Post #: 138
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/14/2021 1:45:35 PM   
bstinger


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You have to build your team from the trench's and we've undervalued those positions for a long time. Protecting the QB and harassing the opponent's QB are the name of the game.

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Post #: 139
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/14/2021 1:56:18 PM   
ronhextall


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

You have to build your team from the trench's and we've undervalued those positions for a long time. Protecting the QB and harassing the opponent's QB are the name of the game.


agreed.

I would add DB's to your list as equally important.
Post #: 140
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/14/2021 2:51:16 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 27640
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

Hughes was a terrible choice at the time. We had Waynes, Rhodes, Mac as starters. Waynes & Mac still had two years on rookie deal. There was no reason to believe Rhodes was going to drop off a cliff. Added James and Hill as developmental guys. James has since started for the Eagles, signing a 1 year ext before a season ending injury. This was a team coming off the NFCCG and had glaring holes/immediate needs.

Hughes performance
2018: PFF 61.6, allowed a 66.7 comp%, 9.1 yds/target, and a 104% rating.
2019: PFF 58.7, allowed a 61.2%, 7.2 per target, and a 91.9% rating.
2020: PFF 54.4, 75% comp %, 13.1 per target, and a 126.3% rating.

Injuries might have derailed his development but this was not a good return on a first round pick.


I didn't like the pick, but the pick showed they were planning at CB which was what the earlier posts about Hughes were about. The three incumbent CBs were simply not all going to be around due to the high cost. So the idea would be Hughes would step in to remedy that. And Waynes may have been on a rookie deal, but it was a very expensive last year or two.

Needs elsewhere... related but different topic.

Either they wanted Hughes to be the bridge or they wanted to make CB an overwhelming strength.
Post #: 141
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/14/2021 2:55:59 PM   
Bill Johanesen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

You have to build your team from the trench's and we've undervalued those positions for a long time. Protecting the QB and harassing the opponent's QB are the name of the game.


I believe even the regime sees the draft/offseason as OL and DL this year, and Hunter's status will affect that a lot. Safety has to be in the mix as well.

That said, they are probably itching to take a CB.
Post #: 142
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/14/2021 7:01:43 PM   
Murph


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Rumor has it, Deshaun Watson is unhappy in Houston.

Wondering if there's a snowball's chance in hell we could trade Cousins and picks for Watson?

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Post #: 143
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/14/2021 7:11:37 PM   
thebigo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ronhextall

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

You have to build your team from the trench's and we've undervalued those positions for a long time. Protecting the QB and harassing the opponent's QB are the name of the game.


agreed.

I would add DB's to your list as equally important.

Agreed.

I would add linebackers and skill players on offense to your list.🥴
Post #: 144
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/14/2021 8:36:34 PM   
Pager


Posts: 10500
Joined: 7/19/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

Hughes was a terrible choice at the time. We had Waynes, Rhodes, Mac as starters. Waynes & Mac still had two years on rookie deal. There was no reason to believe Rhodes was going to drop off a cliff. Added James and Hill as developmental guys. James has since started for the Eagles, signing a 1 year ext before a season ending injury. This was a team coming off the NFCCG and had glaring holes/immediate needs.

Hughes performance
2018: PFF 61.6, allowed a 66.7 comp%, 9.1 yds/target, and a 104% rating.
2019: PFF 58.7, allowed a 61.2%, 7.2 per target, and a 91.9% rating.
2020: PFF 54.4, 75% comp %, 13.1 per target, and a 126.3% rating.

Injuries might have derailed his development but this was not a good return on a first round pick.


I didn't like the pick, but the pick showed they were planning at CB which was what the earlier posts about Hughes were about. The three incumbent CBs were simply not all going to be around due to the high cost. So the idea would be Hughes would step in to remedy that. And Waynes may have been on a rookie deal, but it was a very expensive last year or two.

Needs elsewhere... related but different topic.

Either they wanted Hughes to be the bridge or they wanted to make CB an overwhelming strength.


In many circumstances it's a great idea, that type of forward thinking. In my opinion, that wasn't the time for it. You just signed Cousins to record setting contract, had a window to be competitive and your oline had been in shambles for years. In 2018 Waynes contract was 2.2M, Waynes fifth year option was 9M.

As someone else posted, that's the time to pick a raw tools guy that needs development, ie Hunter when Robison and Griffith were starting.

< Message edited by Pager -- 1/14/2021 8:40:21 PM >


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Post #: 145
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/15/2021 7:05:56 AM   
Bill Jandro

 

Posts: 17862
Joined: 8/13/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

Hughes was a terrible choice at the time. We had Waynes, Rhodes, Mac as starters. Waynes & Mac still had two years on rookie deal. There was no reason to believe Rhodes was going to drop off a cliff. Added James and Hill as developmental guys. James has since started for the Eagles, signing a 1 year ext before a season ending injury. This was a team coming off the NFCCG and had glaring holes/immediate needs.

Hughes performance
2018: PFF 61.6, allowed a 66.7 comp%, 9.1 yds/target, and a 104% rating.
2019: PFF 58.7, allowed a 61.2%, 7.2 per target, and a 91.9% rating.
2020: PFF 54.4, 75% comp %, 13.1 per target, and a 126.3% rating.

Injuries might have derailed his development but this was not a good return on a first round pick.


I didn't like the pick, but the pick showed they were planning at CB which was what the earlier posts about Hughes were about. The three incumbent CBs were simply not all going to be around due to the high cost. So the idea would be Hughes would step in to remedy that. And Waynes may have been on a rookie deal, but it was a very expensive last year or two.

Needs elsewhere... related but different topic.

Either they wanted Hughes to be the bridge or they wanted to make CB an overwhelming strength.


In many circumstances it's a great idea, that type of forward thinking. In my opinion, that wasn't the time for it. You just signed Cousins to record setting contract, had a window to be competitive and your oline had been in shambles for years. In 2018 Waynes contract was 2.2M, Waynes fifth year option was 9M.

As someone else posted, that's the time to pick a raw tools guy that needs development, ie Hunter when Robison and Griffith were starting.

Normal regimes (or should I say upper ones) would build around an investment like Cousins so that he can succeed. I guess I simply don't understand Spielmans philosophy here. We've been weak up the middle throughout his tenure. He must really, really devalue the G position. hasn't worked out well.

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Post #: 146
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/15/2021 8:33:38 AM   
ronhextall


Posts: 6271
Joined: 7/19/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Jandro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

Hughes was a terrible choice at the time. We had Waynes, Rhodes, Mac as starters. Waynes & Mac still had two years on rookie deal. There was no reason to believe Rhodes was going to drop off a cliff. Added James and Hill as developmental guys. James has since started for the Eagles, signing a 1 year ext before a season ending injury. This was a team coming off the NFCCG and had glaring holes/immediate needs.

Hughes performance
2018: PFF 61.6, allowed a 66.7 comp%, 9.1 yds/target, and a 104% rating.
2019: PFF 58.7, allowed a 61.2%, 7.2 per target, and a 91.9% rating.
2020: PFF 54.4, 75% comp %, 13.1 per target, and a 126.3% rating.

Injuries might have derailed his development but this was not a good return on a first round pick.


I didn't like the pick, but the pick showed they were planning at CB which was what the earlier posts about Hughes were about. The three incumbent CBs were simply not all going to be around due to the high cost. So the idea would be Hughes would step in to remedy that. And Waynes may have been on a rookie deal, but it was a very expensive last year or two.

Needs elsewhere... related but different topic.

Either they wanted Hughes to be the bridge or they wanted to make CB an overwhelming strength.


In many circumstances it's a great idea, that type of forward thinking. In my opinion, that wasn't the time for it. You just signed Cousins to record setting contract, had a window to be competitive and your oline had been in shambles for years. In 2018 Waynes contract was 2.2M, Waynes fifth year option was 9M.

As someone else posted, that's the time to pick a raw tools guy that needs development, ie Hunter when Robison and Griffith were starting.

Normal regimes (or should I say upper ones) would build around an investment like Cousins so that he can succeed. I guess I simply don't understand Spielmans philosophy here. We've been weak up the middle throughout his tenure. He must really, really devalue the G position. hasn't worked out well.


Agreed, Cousins positives and negatives are no secret. Speilman seems to be the only person on planet earth that doesn't know he needs above average OL play to be at his best.
Post #: 147
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/15/2021 4:49:55 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bstinger

You have to build your team from the trench's and we've undervalued those positions for a long time. Protecting the QB and harassing the opponent's QB are the name of the game.


Pass blocking rankings under Zimmer:

23rd, 28th, 30th, 17th (the year they went to the NFC championship game they were average!), 27th, 27th and 29th.

Obviously, the last three years were with Cousins as the quarterback. He has been getting a lot of heat and lots of people want the Vikings to sacrifice their draft in order to get another quarterback. Perhaps he is partially responsible for the bad grade if he holds onto the ball longer than other quarterbacks and doesn't elude pass rushers like other quarterbacks. Nevertheless, he has been successful more than almost any other quarterback in throwing the ball downfield, which takes more time to throw. My hope is that the Vikings sacrifice the draft, as you say here bstinger, on the trenches. I honestly don't know which is more of a compelling need- d-line or o-line. Both sides of the trenches for our favorite team has been getting bullied. That's not a way to go deep into the playoffs.

_____________________________

We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?
Post #: 148
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/15/2021 6:19:05 PM   
Bruce Johnson

 

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Check out this chart. The Vikings are a league of their own.

https://twitter.com/Yfz84/status/1350152410635894792?s=09

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We live in a world where we depend upon each other. In other words, we need each other just as God needs us and we need Him. How wonderful it would be if we could unite and live in harmony. Wouldn't it be better that way?
Post #: 149
RE: General Vikes Talk - 1/15/2021 7:35:12 PM   
joejitsu

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bruce Johnson

Check out this chart. The Vikings are a league of their own.

https://twitter.com/Yfz84/status/1350152410635894792?s=09


My Lord, does Dozier look bad in those lowlights.
Post #: 150
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