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RE: General Vikes Talk

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RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/14/2021 12:58:42 AM   
McMurfy


Posts: 13792
Joined: 7/31/2007
From: Portland, Oregon
Status: offline 		Vikings are ecstatic about the Mike Hughes trade because it allows the Dinosaur, Zimmer, to
use the First Round pick in 2022 on a CB.

Yippee

10-6 Saves Jobs for 7round Rick and 1994 Mike.

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Post #: 1726
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/14/2021 6:33:11 AM   
Tom Sykes

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

Another un-Spielmanesque move.

Letting go of a draft bust before his contract is up. In fact, we usually extend.

Signs and wonders.



This I agree with. Maybe George Patten leaving has freed Spielman!

I had mentioned the Paton-puppet angle also.

More likely, another below average season spells real career trouble for the regime ... so the urgency to ‘fix’ things.

Spielman has been a busy little bee - a ton of holes to fill on an underperforming roster with very little cap. Imagine if he had applied this committment to upgrading weaknesses after one of the good years / better rosters when we had plenty of cap space? (instead of simply letting player development take its course)

Now, if we can just get the coaches to play the most talented instead of the most trusted ...

< Message edited by Tom Sykes -- 5/14/2021 6:36:06 AM >
Post #: 1727
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/14/2021 7:26:56 AM   
Mark Anderson

 

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Joined: 9/1/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Bring in Richard Sherman!

Hopefully we are trying to get Steven Nelson.

Supposely, 14 teams interested in him. Not sure we have to cap room to get him.

< Message edited by Mark Anderson -- 5/14/2021 7:33:36 AM >
Post #: 1728
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/14/2021 8:07:50 AM   
Bill Jandro

 

Posts: 17929
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline 		Does Dre Kirpatrick have anything left in the tank?

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Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 1729
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/14/2021 8:10:55 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28619
Status: offline 		No revisionist history with Hughes. He was mediocre. Some people transfer the allure of being a first round pick into play on the field.
Post #: 1730
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/14/2021 8:14:13 AM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28619
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark Anderson

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Bring in Richard Sherman!

Hopefully we are trying to get Steven Nelson.

Supposely, 14 teams interested in him. Not sure we have to cap room to get him.


I'd be fine with the 1977 version of Stevie Nicks on a rookie deal.
Post #: 1731
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/14/2021 8:46:05 AM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 27433
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

No revisionist history with Hughes. He was mediocre. Some people transfer the allure of being a first round pick into play on the field.

+1
I remember Boyd on the field more last year even before his injury. Gladney and Dantzler passed Hughes on the depth chart right away. He would have been the 5th corner if Gladney is out.

I was excited by his playmaking possibilities when drafted but too many injuries to trust.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 5/14/2021 8:48:25 AM >

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Post #: 1732
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/14/2021 8:55:32 AM   
TJSweens


Posts: 45022
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Regarding Hughes: neither his stats nor his PFF grades suggest he ever performed well. In fact it’s only a slight decline from 2018 to 2020.

He was inconsistent from day 1. He had the pick 6 and he had a lot of blown coverages in his rookie year.

All that deeply buried OG Hernandez angst is welling back up to the surface ...

Hughes was a rookie day 1. He was inconsistent as a rookie. There's a common theme here somewhere ...

Hard to develop into and around major injuries.

He might have been a terrible cb without the injuries ... its impossible to know. Be interesting to see if he ever stays healthy in KC.

If Gladney gets found guilty of anything ... our cb depth will suddenly have evaporated. (not saying our depth is more important than justice in a domestic violence case...)

I don't dispute anything you are saying Tom. My comment was geared to those who are trying to maintain that Hughes was really good until he tore his ACL. He had a few moments, but he had even more bad moments. The ACL tear did not help, but let's not pretend he was on a career path to multiple Pro Bowls before it happened.

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Post #: 1733
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/14/2021 9:22:09 AM   
Pager


Posts: 10500
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

Another un-Spielmanesque move.

Letting go of a draft bust before his contract is up. In fact, we usually extend.

Signs and wonders.



This I agree with. Maybe George Patten leaving has freed Spielman!

I had mentioned the Paton-puppet angle also.

More likely, another below average season spells real career trouble for the regime ... so the urgency to ‘fix’ things.

Spielman has been a busy little bee - a ton of holes to fill on an underperforming roster with very little cap. Imagine if he had applied this committment to upgrading weaknesses after one of the good years / better rosters when we had plenty of cap space? (instead of simply letting player development take its course)

Now, if we can just get the coaches to play the most talented instead of the most trusted ...






I don't trust the coaches either. This is why I 100% discount their view of Jones. Jones is vastly superior in pass blocking (PFF scores in the upper 60s/lower 70s - shade behind Reiff) we'd give up a little in the run game but for a backup, I'd much rather have Jones than Cole/Dozier. I think we are pipe dreaming if we think we can take a guy in his 3rd year (Cole), who played pretty terrible at a couple different positions, and turn him into a functional player. We only have to look at Elf.

To be fair, I trust Patterson for the DL. Also trust DBs. Not have enough info to say it for LB. Offense though - I question so many of their choices and it's magnified on the line since it's so bad.

< Message edited by Pager -- 5/14/2021 9:23:37 AM >

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Post #: 1734
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/14/2021 10:30:04 AM   
Phil Riewer


Posts: 27433
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline 		Jones isn’t good either. Giants gladly traded him to us. There is a dearth of good oline backups which is why they have to draft 1-2 in the first three rounds until it is fixed. I have more hope for Hinton than Cole.

Hope the rookie is better than Reiff. JJ made the Diggs trade look good. Many think that getting a young QB for cap is great but Rick has lowered the cap on the starting CB TE and 1 or 2 WR and possibly starting LT in recent history even the 2nd safety Those are the things he should be doing. Finally a QBOTF. Keep improving the roster.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 5/14/2021 10:36:47 AM >

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Post #: 1735
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/14/2021 10:36:59 AM   
Pager


Posts: 10500
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Jones isn’t good either. Giants gladly traded him to us. There is a dearth of good oline backups which is why they have to draft 1-2 in the first three rounds until it is fixed



I am comparing him to Dozier/Cole. Never said Jones was "good" or should start. Well last year and the year before, I said he should start over Dozier and Elf. And I stand by that. Gawd only hope that Ezra at LG and Davis at RG make it a moot point.

Compare PFFs scores of Jones to: Dozier, Cole, Elf, Samia.

Until we fix the depth through draft and development - Jones is cheaper than Coles and better than both. As I've stated more than once, if Hinton/Cole beat him out, even better.

< Message edited by Pager -- 5/14/2021 10:39:16 AM >

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Post #: 1736
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/14/2021 12:26:26 PM   
joejitsu

 

Posts: 15424
Joined: 3/21/2010
From: 60411
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

Regarding Hughes: neither his stats nor his PFF grades suggest he ever performed well. In fact it’s only a slight decline from 2018 to 2020.

He was inconsistent from day 1. He had the pick 6 and he had a lot of blown coverages in his rookie year.


He had flashes of talent, but I think inconsistent is a good word.
Post #: 1737
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/14/2021 1:44:58 PM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 33770
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Sykes

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Levine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: ratoppenheimer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

Ouch so painful that we are giving away Mike Hughes to save was it less than $2Million cap?



spielman must have a good feeling about gladney - it's my understanding that he hasn't been formally charged with anything, and I know that he has not been arraigned, or scheduled to be arraigned...very possible that the girl stopped cooperating....



Hughes played terrible when he was out there. Another first round bust that was a terrible choice at the time, and got no better over time.


Exactly.

Revisionist history. Hughes came in and played well from his first game until getting injured. Never fully made it back.

I wouldn't put the blame on Spielman - or anybody in particular - but that's a draft bust plain and simple.

Anybody can get injured. Did he bust? Sure, but only due to injury. There was nothing wrong with the pick at all. If he had taken an O Line there we wouldn't have taken O'Neil in the second.

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So let it be done."
Post #: 1738
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/14/2021 1:49:30 PM   
kgdabom

 

Posts: 33770
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

No revisionist history with Hughes. He was mediocre. Some people transfer the allure of being a first round pick into play on the field.

+1
I remember Boyd on the field more last year even before his injury. Gladney and Dantzler passed Hughes on the depth chart right away. He would have been the 5th corner if Gladney is out.

I was excited by his playmaking possibilities when drafted but too many injuries to trust.

My personal belief is if the injuries don't come Hughes is a pro bowler right now. We will never know. I wish the best for him so I hope he can stay healthy in KC and make us regret moving on from him. However, I wouldn't be surprised at all if he doesn't pass his physical or has he?

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."
Post #: 1739
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/14/2021 3:12:43 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

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Joined: 7/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

No revisionist history with Hughes. He was mediocre. Some people transfer the allure of being a first round pick into play on the field.

Alluring ... maybe. Hence the interest and pick from KC.

Mediocre ... not in my book.

Battling significant injuries that may or may not affect your development the first three years makes it hard to know. Very different from being a healthy scratch like Treadwell.

Revisionism would be saying that Hughes showed enough up from his up-and-down play to be in the mix with Peterson, Dantzler, Alexander and *Gladney ... he did not.

But ... Since the injuries were completely unrelated - I was hoping he would get on a healthy track long enough to compete for the 5th or 6th cb spot. The allure of a former dinged-up first rounder over a bunch of nobodies like Boyd Hand Mabin is just too tantalizing (I do confess it).

I am well aware of how much more important availability is than potential - so I am more than happy with a 6th rd pick and cap change - as opposed to picking up a 5th yr option to try and squeeze a little draft justification out of him this year and next. Which is our usual MO.

< Message edited by Tom Sykes -- 5/14/2021 3:41:14 PM >
Post #: 1740
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/14/2021 3:19:30 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

No revisionist history with Hughes. He was mediocre. Some people transfer the allure of being a first round pick into play on the field.

+1
I remember Boyd on the field more last year even before his injury. Gladney and Dantzler passed Hughes on the depth chart right away. He would have been the 5th corner if Gladney is out.

I was excited by his playmaking possibilities when drafted but too many injuries to trust.

My personal belief is if the injuries don't come Hughes is a pro bowler right now. We will never know. I wish the best for him so I hope he can stay healthy in KC and make us regret moving on from him. However, I wouldn't be surprised at all if he doesn't pass his physical or has he?

That's ridiculous. and rude.

I put myself out there trying to defend Hughes on some level and then you run amok making these grandiose outlandishly un-provable declarations.

It really sheds a bad light on the 'not completely anti-Hughes' faction. Of which, apparently, there are only two ... thanks for bringing that into focus also.

< Message edited by Tom Sykes -- 5/14/2021 3:49:34 PM >
Post #: 1741
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/14/2021 3:57:04 PM   
Bill Johanesen


Posts: 28619
Status: offline 		He makes you a relatively moderate Hughes lover. Anyway, the board has spoke and you two go get a room together.
Post #: 1742
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/14/2021 4:06:18 PM   
TJSweens


Posts: 45022
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Status: offline 		That's how I read it.

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Post #: 1743
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/14/2021 4:49:10 PM   
Tom Sykes

 

Posts: 5872
Joined: 7/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

He makes you a relatively moderate Hughes lover. Anyway, the board has spoke and you two go get a room together.

Well he'd have to pass a physical and the Chiefs would have to ....

oh, you mean 1977 Stevie Nicks ....

It's go time!

< Message edited by Tom Sykes -- 5/14/2021 7:07:50 PM >
Post #: 1744
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/14/2021 9:11:00 PM   
Pager


Posts: 10500
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline 		Looks like the plan for oline is: Darrisaw/Ezra/Bradbury/Davis/ONeil

https://www.yahoo.com/news/vikings-rookie-qb-kellen-mond-234100399.html

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Left picking up the pieces.
Post #: 1745
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/14/2021 10:18:07 PM   
Todd M

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

Looks like the plan for oline is: Darrisaw/Ezra/Bradbury/Davis/ONeil

https://www.yahoo.com/news/vikings-rookie-qb-kellen-mond-234100399.html


Completely new 100% drafted OL in 4 years. Will people stop saying it's neglected by Spielman and give credit where credit is due?

I suppose a wait and see until this year shakes out us fair.

I'll still give him credit though.
Post #: 1746
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/14/2021 10:23:46 PM   
TJSweens


Posts: 45022
Joined: 7/16/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

Looks like the plan for oline is: Darrisaw/Ezra/Bradbury/Davis/ONeil

https://www.yahoo.com/news/vikings-rookie-qb-kellen-mond-234100399.html


Completely new 100% drafted OL in 4 years. Will people stop saying it's neglected by Spielman and give credit where credit is due?

I suppose a wait and see until this year shakes out us fair.

I'll still give him credit though.

We have been giving credit. It's one thing to draft linemen. It's another to draft good ones. So far, he has drafted 1 confirmed good one. Hopefully Darrisaw and Davis have a great first year impact and Cleveland and Bradbury make enough strides that we can give a different kind of credit that is due.

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"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."
Post #: 1747
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/15/2021 7:06:18 AM   
Bill Jandro

 

Posts: 17929
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline 		While I have zero illusions that Hughes would ever sniff a pro bowl I was ok giving him one more camp/season to see if he could become a serviceable CB. If he has finally put the injuries behind him but the team knows his health problems better than me so will have to defer to their judgement.

Many players have injured their way out of the league early. This isn't a game for the nancy's.

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Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 1748
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/15/2021 7:09:24 AM   
Bill Jandro

 

Posts: 17929
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Todd M

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

Looks like the plan for oline is: Darrisaw/Ezra/Bradbury/Davis/ONeil

https://www.yahoo.com/news/vikings-rookie-qb-kellen-mond-234100399.html


Completely new 100% drafted OL in 4 years. Will people stop saying it's neglected by Spielman and give credit where credit is due?

I suppose a wait and see until this year shakes out us fair.

I'll still give him credit though.

We have been giving credit. It's one thing to draft linemen. It's another to draft good ones. So far, he has drafted 1 confirmed good one. Hopefully Darrisaw and Davis have a great first year impact and Cleveland and Bradbury make enough strides that we can give a different kind of credit that is due.

+1

Read somewhere Spielman has spent more draft stock than any other GM on the oline in the last few years. But like you said that doesn't mean squat. It's all about results.

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Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 1749
RE: General Vikes Talk - 5/15/2021 7:13:17 AM   
Bill Jandro

 

Posts: 17929
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

Looks like the plan for oline is: Darrisaw/Ezra/Bradbury/Davis/ONeil

https://www.yahoo.com/news/vikings-rookie-qb-kellen-mond-234100399.html

About all I derived out of this article is that Darrisaw lined up at LT and Davis lined up at RG during Friday's rookie practice.

_____________________________

Oline...early and often this draft
Post #: 1750
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