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RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/1/2021 11:23:58 AM

Phil Riewer

Posts: 27446
Joined: 8/24/2007
From: MN
Status: offline

Just an FYI...adding 1) FA: Woods, PP, Alexander, Tomlinson, Vigil, and Weatherly plus 2) Getting Barr/Pierce/Hunter/Kendricks back healthy and 3) the draft put the Vikes in the to 5-6 roster talk now....there is no excuses for Kirk or anyone. This current roster can and should compete with any team.

< Message edited by Phil Riewer -- 6/1/2021 11:26:35 AM >

_____________________________

SSG Riewer, Greg A Co 2/136 CAB
KIA 23 March 2007 Habbaniyah Iraq

Post #: 2301

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/1/2021 11:27:18 AM

David F.

Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline

It's easy to look up Josh Allen's fumble stats. Here's his ESPN stats. https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/3918298/josh-allen

2018 he had 3 fumbles in a passing situation and 5 fumbles in a rushing situation. Total lost fumbles was 1.
2019 he had 6 fumbles in a passing situation and 7 fumbles in a rushing situation. Total lost fumbles was 2.
2020 he had 5 fumbles in a passing situation and 4 fumbles in a rushing situation. Total lost fumbles was 4.

Total rushing TDs over the three years - 26

Kirk Cousins the same years. https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/14880/kirk-cousins

2018 5 passing, 4 rushing, 2 lost
2019 5 passing, 5 rushing, 0 lost
2020 8 passing, 1 rushing, 1 lost

Total rushing TDs over the three years - 3

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 2302

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/1/2021 11:29:48 AM

David F.

Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Cherry pick a top 5 QB and think the spaghetti will stick to the wall.

Get Kirk a line first and the fumble numbers will improve. Josh Allen had a great year and when Kirk was younger he was top 5 in rushing and TDs many years but continued health now is more important. Josh Allen healthy is better than Josh Allen trying to be a man child.

There is a small window to win it all. I'll take man child for 5-7 years over a pussy for 12. If that's what helps the team win, go for it. Allen put up 45 total touchdowns last season and had his team in the AFC Championship. Not many saw that coming. Without his reckless nature, they may have never gotten that far.

Is running what is best for his future? Who am I to say? In fact, I don't give a damned. If he gets a title in Buffalo he'll be a living legend, whether he plays seven years or 12.

Buffalo had top 5-6 roster in the NFL. Not just Allen, FYI.

Part of that roster was a WR that wanted to go there - and leave ours.

Yep...but I will take Jefferson.

Diggs is always hot and cold. Remember the coaching philosophy change has as much to do with that as Cousins....Targets went way down, run the ball 50% of the time.

Diggs was first-team all pro last year for Buffalo.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 2303

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/1/2021 11:30:28 AM

David F.

Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Just an FYI...adding 1) FA: Woods, PP, Alexander, Tomlinson, Vigil, and Weatherly plus 2) Getting Barr/Pierce/Hunter/Kendricks back healthy and 3) the draft put the Vikes in the to 5-6 roster talk now....there is no excuses for Kirk or anyone. This current roster can and should compete with any team.

If even ONE of those players misses even a few games the excuses will fly.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 2304

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/1/2021 11:30:33 AM

TJSweens

Posts: 45026
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

It's a difficult stat to go dig around for. And other claims are based more on the Mark 1 eyeball.

Wouldn't matter anyway because someone would claim it's another cherry picked stat.

People can claim cherry pick all they want, but when you start stringing like ones together they shouldn't ignore the picture that's painted.

I wouldn't exactly say there is a string of them. And let's be clear, both extremes in the argument are cherry picking here. Neither extreme can accept that Cousins is not elite or great or that Cousins doesn't suck and is not below average. And so the cycle will continue with both sides pointing to the same things they have pointing to for 3 years now. Nothing new has been presented.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 2305

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/1/2021 11:32:34 AM

David F.

Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

It's a difficult stat to go dig around for. And other claims are based more on the Mark 1 eyeball.

Wouldn't matter anyway because someone would claim it's another cherry picked stat.

People can claim cherry pick all they want, but when you start stringing like ones together they shouldn't ignore the picture that's painted.

I wouldn't exactly say there is a string of them. And let's be clear, both extremes in the argument are cherry picking here. Neither extreme can accept that Cousins is not elite or great or that Cousins doesn't suck and is not below average. And so the cycle will continue with both sides pointing to the same things they have pointing to for 3 years now. Nothing new has been presented.

I've said repeatedly that Kirk is a good QB.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 2306

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/1/2021 11:35:05 AM

Pager

Posts: 10500
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Cherry pick a top 5 QB and think the spaghetti will stick to the wall.

Get Kirk a line first and the fumble numbers will improve. Josh Allen had a great year and when Kirk was younger he was top 5 in rushing and TDs many years but continued health now is more important. Josh Allen healthy is better than Josh Allen trying to be a man child.

There is a small window to win it all. I'll take man child for 5-7 years over a pussy for 12. If that's what helps the team win, go for it. Allen put up 45 total touchdowns last season and had his team in the AFC Championship. Not many saw that coming. Without his reckless nature, they may have never gotten that far.

Is running what is best for his future? Who am I to say? In fact, I don't give a damned. If he gets a title in Buffalo he'll be a living legend, whether he plays seven years or 12.

Buffalo had top 5-6 roster in the NFL. Not just Allen, FYI.

Part of that roster was a WR that wanted to go there - and leave ours.

Yep...but I will take Jefferson.

Diggs is always hot and cold. Remember the coaching philosophy change has as much to do with that as Cousins....Targets went way down, run the ball 50% of the time.

No evidence he wanted out because of Cousins. I know it's popular refrain here, but his comments in Buffalo were complimentary of Cousins.

Easy to speculate on the lockerroom but none of us are a part of it.

Easy to be complimentary after you've left. When Diggs was in MINNESOTA, he was critical of Cousins. Not insanely so but some. His brother was over the top. Remember those texts? Was he the spokesman for Stefon?

I think the same reason OCs love Cousins is why there has been friction with WRs. Shanahan and McVay loved Cousins because he is almost robotic in his read progressions. Option 1, option 2, option 3. WRs just want the damn ball, all the time. And don't get to see how the IOL is collapsing (in real time). They just think they're open all the time

Being critical (your term not mine) does not equal being a reason Diggs want out.

Could it have been? Sure. But the only reason(s) Diggs has gone on record for wanting to leave (play calling/conservative approach) did not include Cousins.

All I'm saying is I don't know.

< Message edited by Pager -- 6/1/2021 11:46:44 AM >

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.

Post #: 2307

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/1/2021 11:38:38 AM

TJSweens

Posts: 45026
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

It's a difficult stat to go dig around for. And other claims are based more on the Mark 1 eyeball.

Wouldn't matter anyway because someone would claim it's another cherry picked stat.

People can claim cherry pick all they want, but when you start stringing like ones together they shouldn't ignore the picture that's painted.

I wouldn't exactly say there is a string of them. And let's be clear, both extremes in the argument are cherry picking here. Neither extreme can accept that Cousins is not elite or great or that Cousins doesn't suck and is not below average. And so the cycle will continue with both sides pointing to the same things they have pointing to for 3 years now. Nothing new has been presented.

I've said repeatedly that Kirk is a good QB.

I didn't put you or anyone else into categories. There are those who try to make a balanced argument and get labeled as Cousins apologists.

_____________________________

"The eternal fate of the noble and enlightened: to be brutally crushed by the armed and dumb."

Post #: 2308

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/1/2021 12:25:24 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28639
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

It's easy to look up Josh Allen's fumble stats. Here's his ESPN stats. https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/3918298/josh-allen

2018 he had 3 fumbles in a passing situation and 5 fumbles in a rushing situation. Total lost fumbles was 1.
2019 he had 6 fumbles in a passing situation and 7 fumbles in a rushing situation. Total lost fumbles was 2.
2020 he had 5 fumbles in a passing situation and 4 fumbles in a rushing situation. Total lost fumbles was 4.

Total rushing TDs over the three years - 26

Kirk Cousins the same years. https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/14880/kirk-cousins

2018 5 passing, 4 rushing, 2 lost
2019 5 passing, 5 rushing, 0 lost
2020 8 passing, 1 rushing, 1 lost

Total rushing TDs over the three years - 3

Earlier Brad posted:
Josh Allen, 102 rushing attempts, 8 TD's, 6 fumbles
...
Kirk Cousins, 33 rushing attempts, 1 TD, 5 fumbles
...

So the sets of data don't match. Depends on whether scrambling to the LOS counts as a rush. And as mentioned, Allen is athletic and goes for it while Cousins will get what's easy then slide, go out of bounds, turtle up, etc. Risk vs risk adverse.

Conclusion: Not worth Sweens and Brad playing "No you prove it".

Post #: 2309

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/1/2021 12:29:39 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28639
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Cherry pick a top 5 QB and think the spaghetti will stick to the wall.

Get Kirk a line first and the fumble numbers will improve. Josh Allen had a great year and when Kirk was younger he was top 5 in rushing and TDs many years but continued health now is more important. Josh Allen healthy is better than Josh Allen trying to be a man child.

There is a small window to win it all. I'll take man child for 5-7 years over a pussy for 12. If that's what helps the team win, go for it. Allen put up 45 total touchdowns last season and had his team in the AFC Championship. Not many saw that coming. Without his reckless nature, they may have never gotten that far.

Is running what is best for his future? Who am I to say? In fact, I don't give a damned. If he gets a title in Buffalo he'll be a living legend, whether he plays seven years or 12.

Buffalo had top 5-6 roster in the NFL. Not just Allen, FYI.

Part of that roster was a WR that wanted to go there - and leave ours.

Yep...but I will take Jefferson.

Diggs is always hot and cold. Remember the coaching philosophy change has as much to do with that as Cousins....Targets went way down, run the ball 50% of the time.

No evidence he wanted out because of Cousins. I know it's popular refrain here, but his comments in Buffalo were complimentary of Cousins.

Easy to speculate on the lockerroom but none of us are a part of it.

Easy to be complimentary after you've left. When Diggs was in MINNESOTA, he was critical of Cousins. Not insanely so but some. His brother was over the top. Remember those texts? Was he the spokesman for Stefon?

I think the same reason OCs love Cousins is why there has been friction with WRs. Shanahan and McVay loved Cousins because he is almost robotic in his read progressions. Option 1, option 2, option 3. WRs just want the damn ball, all the time. And don't get to see how the IOL is collapsing (in real time). They just think they're open all the time

Being critical (your term not mine) does not equal being a reason Diggs want out.

Could it have been? Sure. But the only reason(s) Diggs has gone on record for wanting to leave (play calling/conservative approach) did not include Cousins.

All I'm saying is I don't know.

His brothers tweets, which you didn't mention, were pretty bad. IMO if Diggs respected Cousins there is no way Diggs' brother would have sent them.

Post #: 2310

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/1/2021 12:31:31 PM

kgdabom

Posts: 33770
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Just an FYI...adding 1) FA: Woods, PP, Alexander, Tomlinson, Vigil, and Weatherly plus 2) Getting Barr/Pierce/Hunter/Kendricks back healthy and 3) the draft put the Vikes in the to 5-6 roster talk now....there is no excuses for Kirk or anyone. This current roster can and should compete with any team.

Every year every fan of every team sees how their team is going to be better this year. In the Vikings case assuming a healthy return of Hunter I think any sensible person would agree that the Vikings will be better.

< Message edited by kgdabom -- 6/1/2021 1:20:13 PM >

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 2311

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/1/2021 12:32:57 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28639
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Just an FYI...adding 1) FA: Woods, PP, Alexander, Tomlinson, Vigil, and Weatherly plus 2) Getting Barr/Pierce/Hunter/Kendricks back healthy and 3) the draft put the Vikes in the to 5-6 roster talk now....there is no excuses for Kirk or anyone. This current roster can and should compete with any team.

If even ONE of those players misses even a few games the excuses will fly.

And it's pretty ironic Phil says "no excuses" because he more than anyone will repeatedly list injuries as an excuse. Udoh misses four games? You can bet Phil will be posting about it.

Post #: 2312

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/1/2021 12:33:51 PM

Pager

Posts: 10500
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Cherry pick a top 5 QB and think the spaghetti will stick to the wall.

Get Kirk a line first and the fumble numbers will improve. Josh Allen had a great year and when Kirk was younger he was top 5 in rushing and TDs many years but continued health now is more important. Josh Allen healthy is better than Josh Allen trying to be a man child.

There is a small window to win it all. I'll take man child for 5-7 years over a pussy for 12. If that's what helps the team win, go for it. Allen put up 45 total touchdowns last season and had his team in the AFC Championship. Not many saw that coming. Without his reckless nature, they may have never gotten that far.

Is running what is best for his future? Who am I to say? In fact, I don't give a damned. If he gets a title in Buffalo he'll be a living legend, whether he plays seven years or 12.

Buffalo had top 5-6 roster in the NFL. Not just Allen, FYI.

Part of that roster was a WR that wanted to go there - and leave ours.

Yep...but I will take Jefferson.

Diggs is always hot and cold. Remember the coaching philosophy change has as much to do with that as Cousins....Targets went way down, run the ball 50% of the time.

No evidence he wanted out because of Cousins. I know it's popular refrain here, but his comments in Buffalo were complimentary of Cousins.

Easy to speculate on the lockerroom but none of us are a part of it.

Easy to be complimentary after you've left. When Diggs was in MINNESOTA, he was critical of Cousins. Not insanely so but some. His brother was over the top. Remember those texts? Was he the spokesman for Stefon?

I think the same reason OCs love Cousins is why there has been friction with WRs. Shanahan and McVay loved Cousins because he is almost robotic in his read progressions. Option 1, option 2, option 3. WRs just want the damn ball, all the time. And don't get to see how the IOL is collapsing (in real time). They just think they're open all the time

Being critical (your term not mine) does not equal being a reason Diggs want out.

Could it have been? Sure. But the only reason(s) Diggs has gone on record for wanting to leave (play calling/conservative approach) did not include Cousins.

All I'm saying is I don't know.

His brothers tweets, which you didn't mention, were pretty bad. IMO if Diggs respected Cousins there is no way Diggs' brother would have sent them.

I don't know Diggs' family dynamic. I look at Rodgers and other professional family situations/incidents and am not willing to put a lot of stock in it.

I have 4 younger brothers and wouldn't put it past any of them to go off the rails and put me in an awkward situation.

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.

Post #: 2313

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/1/2021 12:36:00 PM

Pager

Posts: 10500
Joined: 7/19/2007
Status: offline

https://sports.yahoo.com/packers-apparently-plan-call-aaron-104107398.html

It looks like Rodgers plays for GB or retires.

Hoping Jeopardy is looking real good to Aaron right now.

_____________________________

Left picking up the pieces.

Post #: 2314

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/1/2021 12:36:02 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28639
Status: offline

So the proclamation has been made on June 1st: This is the year of no excuses!

I'm down with that.

Post #: 2315

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/1/2021 12:37:01 PM

kgdabom

Posts: 33770
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

It's easy to look up Josh Allen's fumble stats. Here's his ESPN stats. https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/3918298/josh-allen

2018 he had 3 fumbles in a passing situation and 5 fumbles in a rushing situation. Total lost fumbles was 1.
2019 he had 6 fumbles in a passing situation and 7 fumbles in a rushing situation. Total lost fumbles was 2.
2020 he had 5 fumbles in a passing situation and 4 fumbles in a rushing situation. Total lost fumbles was 4.

Total rushing TDs over the three years - 26

Kirk Cousins the same years. https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/14880/kirk-cousins

2018 5 passing, 4 rushing, 2 lost
2019 5 passing, 5 rushing, 0 lost
2020 8 passing, 1 rushing, 1 lost

Total rushing TDs over the three years - 3

Thanks for the stats DF. My guess was right. Even when factoring in all TOs for Cousins he still has an excellent TD/TO ratio. 3 lost fumbles in 3 years got a Bingo out of somebody. Was it Bill Jandro? I forget. Why are QB fumbles recovered so seldom by the defense? I acknowledge that a fumble recovered is kind of like a sack in most circumstances, but I think a sack is awarded on those plays.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 2316

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/1/2021 12:38:06 PM

kgdabom

Posts: 33770
Joined: 7/29/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Cherry pick a top 5 QB and think the spaghetti will stick to the wall.

Get Kirk a line first and the fumble numbers will improve. Josh Allen had a great year and when Kirk was younger he was top 5 in rushing and TDs many years but continued health now is more important. Josh Allen healthy is better than Josh Allen trying to be a man child.

There is a small window to win it all. I'll take man child for 5-7 years over a pussy for 12. If that's what helps the team win, go for it. Allen put up 45 total touchdowns last season and had his team in the AFC Championship. Not many saw that coming. Without his reckless nature, they may have never gotten that far.

Is running what is best for his future? Who am I to say? In fact, I don't give a damned. If he gets a title in Buffalo he'll be a living legend, whether he plays seven years or 12.

Buffalo had top 5-6 roster in the NFL. Not just Allen, FYI.

Part of that roster was a WR that wanted to go there - and leave ours.

Yep...but I will take Jefferson.

Diggs is always hot and cold. Remember the coaching philosophy change has as much to do with that as Cousins....Targets went way down, run the ball 50% of the time.

Diggs was first-team all pro last year for Buffalo.

Diggs had a sensational season. I'm still very glad we traded him.

_____________________________

"So let it be written.
So let it be done."

Post #: 2317

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/1/2021 12:38:46 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28639
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pager

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phil Riewer

Cherry pick a top 5 QB and think the spaghetti will stick to the wall.

Get Kirk a line first and the fumble numbers will improve. Josh Allen had a great year and when Kirk was younger he was top 5 in rushing and TDs many years but continued health now is more important. Josh Allen healthy is better than Josh Allen trying to be a man child.

There is a small window to win it all. I'll take man child for 5-7 years over a pussy for 12. If that's what helps the team win, go for it. Allen put up 45 total touchdowns last season and had his team in the AFC Championship. Not many saw that coming. Without his reckless nature, they may have never gotten that far.

Is running what is best for his future? Who am I to say? In fact, I don't give a damned. If he gets a title in Buffalo he'll be a living legend, whether he plays seven years or 12.

Buffalo had top 5-6 roster in the NFL. Not just Allen, FYI.

Part of that roster was a WR that wanted to go there - and leave ours.

Yep...but I will take Jefferson.

Diggs is always hot and cold. Remember the coaching philosophy change has as much to do with that as Cousins....Targets went way down, run the ball 50% of the time.

No evidence he wanted out because of Cousins. I know it's popular refrain here, but his comments in Buffalo were complimentary of Cousins.

Easy to speculate on the lockerroom but none of us are a part of it.

Easy to be complimentary after you've left. When Diggs was in MINNESOTA, he was critical of Cousins. Not insanely so but some. His brother was over the top. Remember those texts? Was he the spokesman for Stefon?

I think the same reason OCs love Cousins is why there has been friction with WRs. Shanahan and McVay loved Cousins because he is almost robotic in his read progressions. Option 1, option 2, option 3. WRs just want the damn ball, all the time. And don't get to see how the IOL is collapsing (in real time). They just think they're open all the time

Being critical (your term not mine) does not equal being a reason Diggs want out.

Could it have been? Sure. But the only reason(s) Diggs has gone on record for wanting to leave (play calling/conservative approach) did not include Cousins.

All I'm saying is I don't know.

His brothers tweets, which you didn't mention, were pretty bad. IMO if Diggs respected Cousins there is no way Diggs' brother would have sent them.

I don't know Diggs' family dynamic. I look at Rodgers and other professional family situations/incidents and am not willing to put a lot of stock in it.

I have 4 younger brothers and wouldn't put it past any of them to go off the rails and put me in an awkward situation.

I'd say you and Diggs are much different situations. The tweets were brutal. And it's not like KC was the opposition.

Post #: 2318

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/1/2021 12:41:29 PM

Brad H

Posts: 22989
Joined: 8/16/2007
From: Parts Unknown
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

It's a difficult stat to go dig around for. And other claims are based more on the Mark 1 eyeball.

Wouldn't matter anyway because someone would claim it's another cherry picked stat.

People can claim cherry pick all they want, but when you start stringing like ones together they shouldn't ignore the picture that's painted.

I wouldn't exactly say there is a string of them. And let's be clear, both extremes in the argument are cherry picking here. Neither extreme can accept that Cousins is not elite or great or that Cousins doesn't suck and is not below average. And so the cycle will continue with both sides pointing to the same things they have pointing to for 3 years now. Nothing new has been presented.

I presented he had the #30 QB Rating in the final two minutes of halves. That was new. And pertinent.

_____________________________

Defense starts at the corners!

Post #: 2319

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/1/2021 12:43:06 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28639
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kgdabom

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

It's easy to look up Josh Allen's fumble stats. Here's his ESPN stats. https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/3918298/josh-allen

2018 he had 3 fumbles in a passing situation and 5 fumbles in a rushing situation. Total lost fumbles was 1.
2019 he had 6 fumbles in a passing situation and 7 fumbles in a rushing situation. Total lost fumbles was 2.
2020 he had 5 fumbles in a passing situation and 4 fumbles in a rushing situation. Total lost fumbles was 4.

Total rushing TDs over the three years - 26

Kirk Cousins the same years. https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/14880/kirk-cousins

2018 5 passing, 4 rushing, 2 lost
2019 5 passing, 5 rushing, 0 lost
2020 8 passing, 1 rushing, 1 lost

Total rushing TDs over the three years - 3

Thanks for the stats DF. My guess was right. Even when factoring in all TOs for Cousins he still has an excellent TD/TO ratio. 3 lost fumbles in 3 years got a Bingo out of somebody. Was it Bill Jandro? I forget. Why are QB fumbles recovered so seldom by the defense? I acknowledge that a fumble recovered is kind of like a sack in most circumstances, but I think a sack is awarded on those plays.

Nice try. You didn't even guess right.

Fact is, Cousins is perennially among the top 10 in fumbles. And his Int rate is not among what the actual elite QBs have.

The old fumbles "lost" doesn't mean jack. It means the QB lost the ball and did not take "very good care" of it.

Post #: 2320

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/1/2021 12:44:41 PM

Bill Johanesen

Posts: 28639
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

It's easy to look up Josh Allen's fumble stats. Here's his ESPN stats. https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/3918298/josh-allen

2018 he had 3 fumbles in a passing situation and 5 fumbles in a rushing situation. Total lost fumbles was 1.
2019 he had 6 fumbles in a passing situation and 7 fumbles in a rushing situation. Total lost fumbles was 2.
2020 he had 5 fumbles in a passing situation and 4 fumbles in a rushing situation. Total lost fumbles was 4.

Total rushing TDs over the three years - 26

Kirk Cousins the same years. https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/14880/kirk-cousins

2018 5 passing, 4 rushing, 2 lost
2019 5 passing, 5 rushing, 0 lost
2020 8 passing, 1 rushing, 1 lost

Total rushing TDs over the three years - 3

Glad it was easy. Please show just fumbles as opposed to fumbles lost, thanks.

Post #: 2321

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/1/2021 12:50:09 PM

Trekgeekscott

Posts: 39296
Joined: 7/16/2007
From: United Federation of Planets
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

It's a difficult stat to go dig around for. And other claims are based more on the Mark 1 eyeball.

Wouldn't matter anyway because someone would claim it's another cherry picked stat.

People can claim cherry pick all they want, but when you start stringing like ones together they shouldn't ignore the picture that's painted.

I wouldn't exactly say there is a string of them. And let's be clear, both extremes in the argument are cherry picking here. Neither extreme can accept that Cousins is not elite or great or that Cousins doesn't suck and is not below average. And so the cycle will continue with both sides pointing to the same things they have pointing to for 3 years now. Nothing new has been presented.

I presented he had the #30 QB Rating in the final two minutes of halves. That was new. And pertinent.

I can't imagine that there would be a on field reason for this other than Kirk Cousins sucks.

Some thing like the defense knows you need to pass, so they pin their ears back and come full bore vs one of the worst Oline units in the NFL....

Only the superhuman QBs have no negative effect to their QB rating under those circumstances.

To some people, only Tom Brady production is acceptable.

Cousins is not ELITE. But he is not terrible either

< Message edited by Trekgeekscott -- 6/1/2021 12:51:51 PM >

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Post #: 2322

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/1/2021 1:01:33 PM

TJSweens

Posts: 45026
Joined: 7/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brad H

quote:

ORIGINAL: TJSweens

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

It's a difficult stat to go dig around for. And other claims are based more on the Mark 1 eyeball.

Wouldn't matter anyway because someone would claim it's another cherry picked stat.

People can claim cherry pick all they want, but when you start stringing like ones together they shouldn't ignore the picture that's painted.

I wouldn't exactly say there is a string of them. And let's be clear, both extremes in the argument are cherry picking here. Neither extreme can accept that Cousins is not elite or great or that Cousins doesn't suck and is not below average. And so the cycle will continue with both sides pointing to the same things they have pointing to for 3 years now. Nothing new has been presented.

I presented he had the #30 QB Rating in the final two minutes of halves. That was new. And pertinent.

No, you've thrown that argument out there before Brad. Nothing new there. And Tom poked multiple holes in that argument. Nothing pertinent.

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Post #: 2323

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/1/2021 1:04:23 PM

David F.

Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Johanesen

quote:

ORIGINAL: David F.

It's easy to look up Josh Allen's fumble stats. Here's his ESPN stats. https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/3918298/josh-allen

2018 he had 3 fumbles in a passing situation and 5 fumbles in a rushing situation. Total lost fumbles was 1. Total fumbles 8
2019 he had 6 fumbles in a passing situation and 7 fumbles in a rushing situation. Total lost fumbles was 2. Total fumbles 13
2020 he had 5 fumbles in a passing situation and 4 fumbles in a rushing situation. Total lost fumbles was 4. Total fumbles 9

Total rushing TDs over the three years - 26

Kirk Cousins the same years. https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/14880/kirk-cousins

2018 5 passing, 4 rushing, 2 lost Total fumbles 9
2019 5 passing, 5 rushing, 0 lost Total fumbles 10
2020 8 passing, 1 rushing, 1 lost Total fumbles 9

Total rushing TDs over the three years - 3

Glad it was easy. Please show just fumbles as opposed to fumbles lost, thanks.

I added that in and bolded it. Also I noticed that Allen had 25 rushing TDs over the three years not 26. He had one receiving TD and that's where I got 26.

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I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 2324

RE: General Vikes Talk - 6/1/2021 1:08:07 PM

David F.

Posts: 10864
Joined: 12/31/2007
Status: offline

In regards to lost fumbles by QBs a good stat to show it's possible to 'take good care of the ball' is that Tom Brady had five lost fumbles - over the LAST FIFTEEN SEASONS! Now THAT is ball security both in hanging on to it as well as having pocket presence, getting the ball out quickly, and reading the D to know more often what will be open the quickest. Yes he's the greatest of all time and no one is saying Kirk is better than Tom. I'm just trying to illustrate what 'taking good care of the ball' looks like to me.

_____________________________

I wouldn't give ANY qb $30-50+ mil unless that QB had won me a Super Bowl. Did you win a Super Bowl on your rookie deal? Yes? Great! Here's your hugenormous contract. F it let's just run victory laps and love life. No? Good luck. Next!

Post #: 2325